ADD A CAST TIME TO THIEFS WHEN THEY CAST THE SAME SKILL

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

[Markri.9475]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

You still mean Escapist fortitude? Its a Major now, not a minor. Also doesn't work like Resistance.

[babazhook.6805]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

What he's doing is pretending 1 condi clear on a successful evade means u clear on every dodge or that u can do enough succ dodges to make up for constant condi aplication lol

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

What he's doing is pretending 1 condi clear on a successful evade means u clear on every dodge or that u can do enough succ dodges to make up for constant condi aplication lol

What you people do is pretend that build that evades 50% of the time, and is too far away other 40% of the time, doesnt get to ignore condis.Clap Clap.Play condi against good whip thief and you gonna laugh internally how awfully ineffective it is.

[Zephoid.4263]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen.

Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad.

Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the fuck else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Basic tip: Before whining about what makes a class OP or not, actually make a character of the class and play it until you achieve some moderate competency.

If you played thief for even a few games, you would know that spamming a skill over and over often just wastes initiative. This idea that thieves are somehow not punished for skill spam is ludicrous.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

What he's doing is pretending 1 condi clear on a successful evade means u clear on every dodge or that u can do enough succ dodges to make up for constant condi aplication lol

What you people do is pretend that build that evades 50% of the time, and is too far away other 40% of the time, doesnt get to ignore condis.Clap Clap.Play condi against good whip thief and you gonna laugh internally how awfully ineffective it is.

What the community needs to do is stop being biased children and help the devs actually balance the game instead of ruining it along side them with their pettiness. Uve got dh that can delete someone without even attacking them cuz their trap dps can be built way to high and ontop have a trap that keeps u in the area of the damaging trap. Than u have fb who can out dps alot of classes while needing 2 people or more to down,just like weavers etc. Uve fot rangers/druids hard rooting u to the ground and ranging u to death in 2 seconds before u can damage roots enough to escape. I could go on but theres so many retarded broken cheese builds in the game that get ignored because players are always whining about thief and mesmer cuz their annoying to fight. Gets really tiring

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen.

Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad.

Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the kitten else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

What are you talking about, you can make thief builds with perma regeneration.15s CD withdraw450 heal every time you evade somethingShit ton of evades.Sustain is not just raw healing. Sustain is EVERYTHING that lets you stay in the fight.Its mobility, Its CC, Its stealth.The only thing thief is really lacking is1 Aegis2 Protection3 Big toughtness numbers ( forced into HP amulet )And makes up for it with extra evades, alot of the builds dont heal like weaver.Warrior vs Thief, who heals more in that duel?Thief vs Cmirage, who heals more?Thief vs DG/Core guard, Who heals more?People come here and say thief sustain is BAD, im not saying its amazing or overpowered, im just saying its not bad.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

What he's doing is pretending 1 condi clear on a successful evade means u clear on every dodge or that u can do enough succ dodges to make up for constant condi aplication lol

What you people do is pretend that build that evades 50% of the time, and is too far away other 40% of the time, doesnt get to ignore condis.Clap Clap.Play condi against good whip thief and you gonna laugh internally how awfully ineffective it is.

What the community needs to do is stop being biased children and help the devs actually balance the game instead of ruining it along side them with their pettiness. Uve got dh that can delete someone without even attacking them cuz their trap dps can be built way to high and ontop have a trap that keeps u in the area of the damaging trap. Than u have fb who can out dps alot of classes while needing 2 people or more to down,just like weavers etc. Uve fot rangers/druids hard rooting u to the ground and ranging u to death in 2 seconds before u can damage roots enough to escape. I could go on but theres so many kitten broken cheese builds in the game that get ignored because players are always whining about thief and mesmer cuz their annoying to fight. Gets really tiring

I know that, I would take FB nerf over thief and day of the week.All I said is that thief doesnt have shit sustain, and all these troll thiefs came out of stealth to pester me with their kitten.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

This forum makes the ea seem way stronger than it actually is. The SUCCESSFUL evade part and the fact it's not a constant regen like some other classes defensive skills plus the fact that thief can be 2 shot by anything if hit makes it a pretty balanced trait imo

Is that what thiefs keep telling themself when they compleatly ignore all condi damage due to minor trait ?

Lmao such hyperbole. Weavers can drop my in literally seconds while using the trait,dh traps as well and other condis to. Have u tried the trait? Isnt that powerfull,not like u state it is yet weaver can sustain two backstabs and 50 dagger hits and come out alive..... but it's ok lmao

The guy has no clue. There no minor trait that allows any thief to completely ignore all condition damage. This guy is just making it up as he goes along .

What he's doing is pretending 1 condi clear on a successful evade means u clear on every dodge or that u can do enough succ dodges to make up for constant condi aplication lol

What you people do is pretend that build that evades 50% of the time, and is too far away other 40% of the time, doesnt get to ignore condis.Clap Clap.Play condi against good whip thief and you gonna laugh internally how awfully ineffective it is.

What the community needs to do is stop being biased children and help the devs actually balance the game instead of ruining it along side them with their pettiness. Uve got dh that can delete someone without even attacking them cuz their trap dps can be built way to high and ontop have a trap that keeps u in the area of the damaging trap. Than u have fb who can out dps alot of classes while needing 2 people or more to down,just like weavers etc. Uve fot rangers/druids hard rooting u to the ground and ranging u to death in 2 seconds before u can damage roots enough to escape. I could go on but theres so many kitten broken cheese builds in the game that get ignored because players are always whining about thief and mesmer cuz their annoying to fight. Gets really tiring

If the community had problems with the other 3 specs , they would come in the forums to whine :P

[Dantheman.3589]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

that is what I said, thief has kit that is overloaded with evades, utilities evade, healing skill evades, they spam ini skills that evade, heroic evadesPW can proc it twice for 900 heal every time its cast.DS can proc it 3 times for 1350 heal.there are alot of classes and scenarios that make it easy to proc

• Symbols -> you can proc it any time
• Mesmer -> clones will proc it
• Ranger -> you can run into pet, they will attack you even when you are evading
• Any sort of pulsing damage, this includes holos,scrappers,mirages.
• There is ALOT of skills that channel for 1s+ so you can use it to get 2evades from PW, like rangers rapid fire or mesmers scepter 3.Evade on heal fro daredevil is strong, consistent and reliable. Saying thief has no sustain is lie.

At least in 1v1s. O one will even try to attack during dagger storm or pw so you will be lucky to get it off once let alone for max healing and even if they do the evades are more useful for damage mitigation than the regen hence low sustain. If trained for thief can have good condi cleanse stun breaks and evades but actual sustain is not very high

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

that is what I said, thief has kit that is overloaded with evades, utilities evade, healing skill evades, they spam ini skills that evade, heroic evadesPW can proc it twice for 900 heal every time its cast.DS can proc it 3 times for 1350 heal.there are alot of classes and scenarios that make it easy to proc

• Symbols -> you can proc it any time
• Mesmer -> clones will proc it
• Ranger -> you can run into pet, they will attack you even when you are evading
• Any sort of pulsing damage, this includes holos,scrappers,mirages.
• There is ALOT of skills that channel for 1s+ so you can use it to get 2evades from PW, like rangers rapid fire or mesmers scepter 3.Evade on heal fro daredevil is strong, consistent and reliable. Saying thief has no sustain is lie.

At least in 1v1s. O one will even try to attack during dagger storm or pw so you will be lucky to get it off once let alone for max healing and even if they do the evades are more useful for damage mitigation than the regen hence low sustain. If trained for thief can have good condi cleanse stun breaks and evades but actual sustain is not very high

Evading is part of the sustain.If someone throws 10k dmg at you, you evade 7,5k then heal for 2,5k you are at full hp. ( thats the thief )If you evade only 2,5k and then heal for 7,5k you end up at 10k hp still ( thats core guard )In those 2 scenarios, who has more sustain, guy that hardly gets to dodge but heals ALOT, or the guy that evades almost everything, but when he DO gets his still has SOME healing to power through ?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Basic tip: Before whining about what makes a class OP or not, actually make a character of the class and play it until you achieve some moderate competency.

If you played thief for even a few games, you would know that spamming a skill over and over often just wastes initiative. This idea that thieves are somehow not punished for skill spam is ludicrous.

It's fine, let them push to nerf it so it can't be spammed, then have to learn how to vs it anyway because the decent thieves don't spam it.This is just the unload thing again. I'm tapping out.

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:If the community had problems with the other 3 specs , they would come in the forums to whine :P

A fair assessment. Let's hope it ages well.

[Dantheman.3589]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

that is what I said, thief has kit that is overloaded with evades, utilities evade, healing skill evades, they spam ini skills that evade, heroic evadesPW can proc it twice for 900 heal every time its cast.DS can proc it 3 times for 1350 heal.there are alot of classes and scenarios that make it easy to proc

• Symbols -> you can proc it any time
• Mesmer -> clones will proc it
• Ranger -> you can run into pet, they will attack you even when you are evading
• Any sort of pulsing damage, this includes holos,scrappers,mirages.
• There is ALOT of skills that channel for 1s+ so you can use it to get 2evades from PW, like rangers rapid fire or mesmers scepter 3.Evade on heal fro daredevil is strong, consistent and reliable. Saying thief has no sustain is lie.

At least in 1v1s. O one will even try to attack during dagger storm or pw so you will be lucky to get it off once let alone for max healing and even if they do the evades are more useful for damage mitigation than the regen hence low sustain. If trained for thief can have good condi cleanse stun breaks and evades but actual sustain is not very high

Evading is part of the sustain.If someone throws 10k dmg at you, you evade 7,5k then heal for 2,5k you are at full hp. ( thats the thief )If you evade only 2,5k and then heal for 7,5k you end up at 10k hp still ( thats core guard )In those 2 scenarios, who has more sustain, guy that hardly gets to dodge but heals ALOT, or the guy that evades almost everything, but when he DO gets his still has SOME healing to power through ?

I completely disagree no where would I put dodging as sustain because it’s not healing etc. there is no stat for damage mitigated. Not that I’m saying bunker thief wasn’t a thing though I personally think it’s bad but w.e man

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Dave.6819" said:Oh boy here we go again. Add cast time. Add cooldowns. Make initiative regen slower. Basically nerf everything that makes thief a thief.. U should go and try out thief then u'll realise skill isn't about spamming. Skill is in trying to survive against classes that hit way harder then you do while you're wearing basically nothing and have no sustain at all. If you'll be a spamming thief you'll never win. You'll run out of initiative and u'll be dead. I encourage you. Go and try out thief. U'll be back in forums saying "OMG holo/guard/slb/warr/mirage/scourge/rev is so OP! nerf it. it 1 shotted me".

Thief has 450hp heal on every evadeLow cooldown, healing skill that is impossible to interruptfromThief having low sustain is a lie.

Thief does not have 450 heal on every evade.

Only A daredevil thief has access to EA and EA only works on a successful evade. Not Every Evade. You can not just evade and heal on thief. You need someone attacking you and need to avoid that attack. Now a thief has a lower hit point pool. If a daredevil thief manages an evade of an attack that might have done 5500 in damage then he evaded 5500 in damage and gets 450 health back for avoiding that damage. If he started with 11000 health out of 12000 total health he will see his health jump 11000 to 11450. I mean....wow.

that is what I said, thief has kit that is overloaded with evades, utilities evade, healing skill evades, they spam ini skills that evade, heroic evadesPW can proc it twice for 900 heal every time its cast.DS can proc it 3 times for 1350 heal.there are alot of classes and scenarios that make it easy to proc

• Symbols -> you can proc it any time
• Mesmer -> clones will proc it
• Ranger -> you can run into pet, they will attack you even when you are evading
• Any sort of pulsing damage, this includes holos,scrappers,mirages.
• There is ALOT of skills that channel for 1s+ so you can use it to get 2evades from PW, like rangers rapid fire or mesmers scepter 3.Evade on heal fro daredevil is strong, consistent and reliable. Saying thief has no sustain is lie.

At least in 1v1s. O one will even try to attack during dagger storm or pw so you will be lucky to get it off once let alone for max healing and even if they do the evades are more useful for damage mitigation than the regen hence low sustain. If trained for thief can have good condi cleanse stun breaks and evades but actual sustain is not very high

Evading is part of the sustain.If someone throws 10k dmg at you, you evade 7,5k then heal for 2,5k you are at full hp. ( thats the thief )If you evade only 2,5k and then heal for 7,5k you end up at 10k hp still ( thats core guard )In those 2 scenarios, who has more sustain, guy that hardly gets to dodge but heals ALOT, or the guy that evades almost everything, but when he DO gets his still has SOME healing to power through ?

I completely disagree no where would I put dodging as sustain because it’s not healing etc. there is no stat for damage mitigated. Not that I’m saying bunker thief wasn’t a thing though I personally think it’s bad but w.e man

It would have been called healing, if only healing mattered.Sustainability is preety much how well you can stay in a fight.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:It would have been called healing, if only healing mattered.Sustainability is preety much how well you can stay in a fight.

Leon's right but here we are trying to nerf pistol whip which is functioning as sustainSorry had a frog in my throat.

[Zephoid.4263]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen.

Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad.

Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the kitten else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

What are you talking about, you can make thief builds with perma regeneration.15s CD withdraw450 heal every time you evade somethingkitten ton of evades.Sustain is not just raw healing. Sustain is EVERYTHING that lets you stay in the fight.Its mobility, Its CC, Its stealth.The only thing thief is really lacking is1 Aegis2 Protection3 Big toughtness numbers ( forced into HP amulet )And makes up for it with extra evades, alot of the builds dont heal like weaver.Warrior vs Thief, who heals more in that duel?Thief vs Cmirage, who heals more?Thief vs DG/Core guard, Who heals more?People come here and say thief sustain is BAD, im not saying its amazing or overpowered, im just saying its not bad.

Who cares. You CAN make a build, but you lose everything that makes thief playable to do it. You end up hitting worse than a wet noodle and still aren't as tanky as weaver of scrapper. You get obliterated by condi as your cleanse is limited. Congrats, you have made a shitty build.

Warrior vs your bunker thief is a joke. The warior wins hands down as they can actually do damage to you where you can't do anything back. Even with vigor your evasion drops off fast and you can't hold a point with your natural durability without constant evading.CMirage vs your thief is even worse. After your initial dodge burst, you get hit by chip condis and have very little cleanse. Your healing means nothing as conditions overwhelm you easily. Who cares who heals more, you can neither kill them nor bunker point.Thief vs guard is even more laughable. Core medi guard easily outheals you with 2k heals strapped to almost every ability they run. They can also do damage and are running marauder stats.

Thief sustain is bad if you are running actual damage stats. You can survive the opening rounds of a fight by dodging, but once your dodges are expended you have to disengage or reset (hence why dagger storm is so popular, its a damaging reset that gives you time to regain energy). That isn't sustain. You can't hold a point for more than 15s. You end the fight in short manner or you disengage.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Basic tip: Before whining about what makes a class OP or not, actually make a character of the class and play it until you achieve some moderate competency.

If you played thief for even a few games, you would know that spamming a skill over and over often just wastes initiative. This idea that thieves are somehow not punished for skill spam is ludicrous.

It's fine, let them push to nerf it so it can't be spammed, then have to learn how to vs it anyway because the decent thieves don't spam it.This is just the unload thing again. I'm tapping out.

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:If the community had problems with the other 3 specs , they would come in the forums to whine :P

A fair assessment. Let's hope it ages well.

If it doesnt help the 6-7 sec battles , then we ramp up the Poison and introduce traits that decrease healing every sec to both (enemy+victim) like BattleriteWhich can only be dispelled , when you get attacked by 2 players , while the first enemy that isnt getting attacked by 2 , keeps stacking more to hiself (or until he goes out of combat)When 2 defenders /1 attacker(which has the trait) => the attacker removes the debuff , and he can stack on both defenders slowly

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Basic tip: Before whining about what makes a class OP or not, actually make a character of the class and play it until you achieve some moderate competency.

If you played thief for even a few games, you would know that spamming a skill over and over often just wastes initiative. This idea that thieves are somehow not punished for skill spam is ludicrous.

It's fine, let them push to nerf it so it can't be spammed, then have to learn how to vs it anyway because the decent thieves don't spam it.This is just the unload thing again. I'm tapping out.

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:If the community had problems with the other 3 specs , they would come in the forums to whine :P

A fair assessment. Let's hope it ages well.

If it doesnt help the 6-7 sec battles , then we ramp up the Poison and introduce traits that decrease healing every sec to both (enemy+victim) like BattleriteWhich can only be dispelled , when you get attacked by 2 players , while the first enemy that isnt getting attacked by 2 , keeps stacking more to hiself (or until he goes out of combat)When 2 defenders /1 attacker(which has the trait) => the attacker removes the debuff , and he can stack on both defenders slowly

Nobody's going to let thieves ramp up poison. People would immediately argue that the thief is too hard to catch/you shouldnt need a +1 to counter, like they've always been doing, and necro -still- suffers in the matchup. All it does is make them annoying. What's to stop a thief from just playing DE and not only tanking your heal, but taking potshots at you till you die? Is that fairer than PW?

It's whatever though. Just be careful that the metric with which you are advocating for balance doesn't break your class as well. I'm wayyy too bitter about this for how not serious it is.

@Zephoid.4263 said:Thief sustain is bad if you are running actual damage stats. You can survive the opening rounds of a fight by dodging, but once your dodges are expended you have to disengage or reset (hence why dagger storm is so popular, its a damaging reset that gives you time to regain energy). That isn't sustain. You can't hold a point for more than 15s. You end the fight in short manner or you disengage.

And this is why, if PW gets nerfed, we're going right back to stealth backstab builds. I play Zerk on thief, getting cleaved twice by anything worse than knight ammy takes 75% my hp. I will not play Sword Pistol if there's no mitigation on it post nerf, if that is indeed its future. I will lean into 20k backstab even though it's less fun.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen.

Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad.

Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the kitten else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

What are you talking about, you can make thief builds with perma regeneration.15s CD withdraw450 heal every time you evade somethingkitten ton of evades.Sustain is not just raw healing. Sustain is EVERYTHING that lets you stay in the fight.Its mobility, Its CC, Its stealth.The only thing thief is really lacking is1 Aegis2 Protection3 Big toughtness numbers ( forced into HP amulet )And makes up for it with extra evades, alot of the builds dont heal like weaver.Warrior vs Thief, who heals more in that duel?Thief vs Cmirage, who heals more?Thief vs DG/Core guard, Who heals more?People come here and say thief sustain is BAD, im not saying its amazing or overpowered, im just saying its not bad.

Who cares. You CAN make a build, but you lose everything that makes thief playable to do it. You end up hitting worse than a wet noodle and still aren't as tanky as weaver of scrapper. You get obliterated by condi as your cleanse is limited. Congrats, you have made a kitten build.

Warrior vs your bunker thief is a joke. The warior wins hands down as they can actually do damage to you where you can't do anything back. Even with vigor your evasion drops off fast and you can't hold a point with your natural durability without constant evading.CMirage vs your thief is even worse. After your initial dodge burst, you get hit by chip condis and have very little cleanse. Your healing means nothing as conditions overwhelm you easily. Who cares who heals more, you can neither kill them nor bunker point.Thief vs guard is even more laughable. Core medi guard easily outheals you with 2k heals strapped to almost every ability they run. They can also do damage and are running marauder stats.

Thief sustain is bad if you are running actual damage stats. You can survive the opening rounds of a fight by dodging, but once your dodges are expended you have to disengage or reset (hence why dagger storm is so popular, its a damaging reset that gives you time to regain energy). That isn't sustain. You can't hold a point for more than 15s. You end the fight in short manner or you disengage.

what bunker? lolthis "troll bunker thief" has over 3k dmg on PW ( out of combat so no might no 15% ini bonus dmg, no 10% bonus from dodging )meaning that 1 PW land about 7k+ hitsCondi mes is UNWINNABLE against PW thief, their constant " chip damage condi " is a constant 450hp heal + cleanse.you kite, wait for clones to hit then evade cleave them all, get healed and cleansed for it while removing them all.1 PW takes 1/3 to 1/2 of mes HP.and you can use it every 5-6s.Swipe every 15s means plasma.what you dont get is that this build has perma vigor,perma swiftness, perma regen. INSANE mobility.It doesnt win 1v1, but it can fight back, if you are better then the warrior you win, if equal you hold for 30s then leave, if worse you hold for 15s then leave.You still have INSANITY level of mobility

[Swagatron.8065]

Leonidrex.5649 Posts might be one of the best arguments for why we should have plat/gold/silver badges next to our names in the forums.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Swagatron.8065 said:Leonidrex.5649 Posts might be one of the best arguments for why we should have plat/gold/silver badges next to our names in the forums.

sweet, 95% of the thiefs would stop posting their muh clas weak post at me.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@"SeikeNz.3526" said:this will fix thiefs spamming the same skill forever, add +1s for every cast of the same skill, they need to be more skilled and use other buttons

oh wait a minute, this sounds familiar...

[Axl.8924]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zephoid.4263 said:Is a 450 heal really worth talking about? You would need about 5 successful evade heals to heal a single auto from most power classes. Almost every class has an uninterruptible heal, thief is no different. Heal on initiative is less than regen.

Thief isn't a problem. It has less damage than most power classes, less health and healing, and the only two things it do well are evade spam and map mobility.

You people are kitten at reading.I said thief doesnt have bad sustain, I said they have strong healing skill.And they have good passive that keep them healthy.Then guys like you appear WELL OTHER CLASSES HAVE GOOD HEALS TOOOO.NO kitten sherlock, thats my point. Thiefs sustain is not bad.

Numbers aren't in a vacuum. You compare them against other classes to get a benchmark of good and bad. Thief has very mediocre sustain WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER CLASSES. because what the kitten else are you going to compare it against. Yes, they have those abilities. No, they are not very relevant as their numbers aren't high enough to make significant differences in pvp. Daredevil has reasonable sustain due to evade frames, not heals. Core thief and Deadeye have very little sustain.

What are you talking about, you can make thief builds with perma regeneration.15s CD withdraw450 heal every time you evade somethingkitten ton of evades.Sustain is not just raw healing. Sustain is EVERYTHING that lets you stay in the fight.Its mobility, Its CC, Its stealth.The only thing thief is really lacking is1 Aegis2 Protection3 Big toughtness numbers ( forced into HP amulet )And makes up for it with extra evades, alot of the builds dont heal like weaver.Warrior vs Thief, who heals more in that duel?Thief vs Cmirage, who heals more?Thief vs DG/Core guard, Who heals more?People come here and say thief sustain is BAD, im not saying its amazing or overpowered, im just saying its not bad.

Thief sustain is a whole heck lot better than necro is, and when i played chrono seemed limited amount of sustain.

Anet every time they change something it seems like they nerf our sustain or mobility somehow and make us more of a free kill.

It's almost as if ANET is saying: We would rather you don't play SPVP, now go play open world PvE and WVW.

Or maybe the consensus is: We would rather you not play necro at all