Updated with Monthly AT games. Showcasing the new meta build in PvP for thief (Core D/P)

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I'd say executioner is pretty meh when most of the time your going to do a lot of dmg with assassins signet. Even the nerf to improve, double stolen items are too good to give up imo.

@Nil.4320 I prefer -10%/100power/70 ferocity and with eagle runes I get something close to 97% crit chance with 2500 power or something

[Sindrener.1592]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Serious question, is executioner viable, or is improv better for double stolen items?

Viable yes, but improv better. If you ever spike someone under 50% hp with signet+steal backstab they die

[Nil.4320]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I'd say executioner is pretty meh when most of the time your going to do a lot of dmg with assassins signet. Even the nerf to improve, double stolen items are too good to give up imo.

@Nil.4320 I prefer -10%/100power/70 ferocity and with eagle runes I get something close to 97% crit chance with 2500 power or something

thanks. so you prefer eagle over scholar runes? i played the build and its a lot of fun but only when you land those juicy backstabs.

scholar or eagle rune or even pack? which is better for WvW in your opinion?

[Sindrener.1592]

@Nil.4320 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I'd say executioner is pretty meh when most of the time your going to do a lot of dmg with assassins signet. Even the nerf to improve, double stolen items are too good to give up imo.

@Nil.4320 I prefer -10%/100power/70 ferocity and with eagle runes I get something close to 97% crit chance with 2500 power or something

thanks. so you prefer eagle over scholar runes? i played the build and its a lot of fun but only when you land those juicy backstabs.

scholar or eagle rune or even pack? which is better for

WvW

in your opinion?

Honestly if you do wvw slap on marauder gear so you reach a decent %critchance and then you go firework runes for the passive movement speed. Other option is Pack rune.

Both have good uptime on fury as well, i wouldn't run scholar tbh.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Nil.4320 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I'd say executioner is pretty meh when most of the time your going to do a lot of dmg with assassins signet. Even the nerf to improve, double stolen items are too good to give up imo.

@Nil.4320 I prefer -10%/100power/70 ferocity and with eagle runes I get something close to 97% crit chance with 2500 power or something

thanks. so you prefer eagle over scholar runes? i played the build and its a lot of fun but only when you land those juicy backstabs.

scholar or eagle rune or even pack? which is better for

WvW

in your opinion?

something like this. can get the same with pack, just power instead of ferocty. the 10% dmg belove 50% health is a nice boost. with fury you get 100% crit chance but tbh i am not sure its worth the sigil for that.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAgqVlRw2YXMRGJOMXmNAA-zRRYWBZIGdc5hRUBUlAmHgA2AvF9X2A-e

[Sindrener.1592]

Updated with videos from the monthly at semi+finals including discord

[Crab Fear.1624]

I think your shadow dp dd might become meta.

Just bronze brain throwing it out there.

I look and see 4 stat amulets get some reduction and attacks get some reduction.

This might be able to compensate since some condi is get some reduction.

Here is his video

Lucky im low enough level no one would think it true

this is the edit: ( i know op and video are same person)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

heart seeker avoided the nerf hammer. all is lost for every other class.

[Yasai.3549]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it definitely is a good fun build. Last month or more been using trick/sa/cs with valkyrie amulet since precision matters little if ur permastealth and using hidden killer. With scholars I can one shot most non bunker builds and lesser haste let's me get auto with 2 sec crits quick enough to down tougher builds. Still takes two backstabs and some autos on bunker builds tho. Fear on stealth is good in alot of ways just hate chasing em for my follow ups lol.Thanks for posting sind, let the nerf pd thief flow in now in few weeks haha

I have been playing Core D/P with SA Trick and CS as well.Feels extremely good and feels more like a Thief than all the meta builds have been in years.

Very opportunistic strikes, very short windows of burst before needing to re-stealth.

I've always been a sucker for hit and run playstyles and I love this build alot.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Yeah it definitely is a good fun build. Last month or more been using trick/sa/cs with valkyrie amulet since precision matters little if ur permastealth and using hidden killer. With scholars I can one shot most non bunker builds and lesser haste let's me get auto with 2 sec crits quick enough to down tougher builds. Still takes two backstabs and some autos on bunker builds tho. Fear on stealth is good in alot of ways just hate chasing em for my follow ups lol.Thanks for posting sind, let the nerf pd thief flow in now in few weeks haha

I have been playing Core D/P with SA Trick and CS as well.Feels extremely good and feels more like a Thief than all the meta builds have been in years.

Very opportunistic strikes, very short windows of burst before needing to re-stealth.

I've always been a sucker for hit and run playstyles and I love this build alot.

I've had a lot of success with DA 1,1,3 instead of trickery as well as it doesn't use require preparedness due to playstyle being hit/run and 1 ini gain during stealth also helps. This gives weakness and might when backstabbing on top of the potential one shot. Once u get used to the 12 ini it actually feels ok. Only downside I feel is longer steal recharge and boon removal is gone unless traited on weapons which are far less reliable then bountiful theft is.Still fun build tho.

[Dantheman.3589]

I feel like ppl underestimated this and thief in general. Bursting is so good in this meta to where you can counter many meta comps to the point where even 2 of them is optimal since with 2 thief’s SA and stealth is general will just counter the fact that enemies can focus down your squish comp, also steal range helps this even more.

[babazhook.6805]

CS is underrated as a traitline and after patch I expect more will use it as they work to try and boost damage out of their power build. The recent changes to SA (ie flickering shadows) makes those two lines a perfect match if in d/x power. The question I will try and answer is whether TR can be dropped in favor of DA for a da/cs/sa build post patch. INI might be a concern.

[Sindrener.1592]

@babazhook.6805 said:CS is underrated as a traitline and after patch I expect more will use it as they work to try and boost damage out of their power build. The recent changes to SA (ie flickering shadows) makes those two lines a perfect match if in d/x power. The question I will try and answer is whether TR can be dropped in favor of DA for a da/cs/sa build post patch. INI might be a concern.

TR can't be dropped in high end pvp ever. BT+ini+sleight+lead attacks is impossible to give up.

CS can't compare to any thief traitline atm in terms of damage or utility, after patch it will compete with SA since SA dropped in utility. And you might not need the utility from SA anymore since most mobile/port classes are nerfed so u can get away without SA

[babazhook.6805]

@bluri.2653 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:CS is underrated as a traitline and after patch I expect more will use it as they work to try and boost damage out of their power build. The recent changes to SA (ie flickering shadows) makes those two lines a perfect match if in d/x power. The question I will try and answer is whether TR can be dropped in favor of DA for a da/cs/sa build post patch. INI might be a concern.

TR can't be dropped in high end pvp ever. BT+ini+sleight+lead attacks is impossible to give up.

CS can't compare to any thief traitline atm in terms of damage or utility, after patch it will compete with SA since SA dropped in utility. And you might not need the utility from SA anymore since most mobile/port classes are nerfed so u can get away without SA

All of this remains to be seen when measuring damage output and boon prevalence.

BT sees a nerf with one less boon stolen. Where I see SA and CS is rending shade for boon rip which will provide more boon rip overall then BT (RS steals stacks as well) combined with Hidden killer and flickering shadows. You come out of stealth with Crit at 100 percent and the 33 percent added protection from Flickering. Lead attacks is the big hit but I would consider dropping DA over TR given the hit to mug. Assassins fury might is > what you get from even the odds.

DA line took more hits then CS line. |In other words consider CS/SA/TR

[Sindrener.1592]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:CS is underrated as a traitline and after patch I expect more will use it as they work to try and boost damage out of their power build. The recent changes to SA (ie flickering shadows) makes those two lines a perfect match if in d/x power. The question I will try and answer is whether TR can be dropped in favor of DA for a da/cs/sa build post patch. INI might be a concern.

TR can't be dropped in high end pvp ever. BT+ini+sleight+lead attacks is impossible to give up.

CS can't compare to any thief traitline atm in terms of damage or utility, after patch it will compete with SA since SA dropped in utility. And you might not need the utility from SA anymore since most mobile/port classes are nerfed so u can get away without SA

All of this remains to be seen when measuring damage output and boon prevalence.

BT sees a nerf with one less boon stolen. Where I see SA and CS is rending shade for boon rip which will provide more boon rip overall then BT (RS steals stacks as well) combined with Hidden killer and flickering shadows. You come out of stealth with Crit at 100 percent and the 33 percent added protection from Flickering. Lead attacks is the big hit but I would consider dropping DA over TR given the hit to mug. Assassins fury might is > what you get from even the odds.

DA line took more hits then CS line. |In other words consider CS/SA/TR

I'd run da/cs/tr

and doesnt matter if u nerf bt to 2 boons instead of 3, thats what it originally was in vanilla and for a long time. the thing with bt that makes it op is that it rips aegis and stab. it is crucial in high end pvp so you can't play without it.

[kash.9213]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@bluri.2653 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:CS is underrated as a traitline and after patch I expect more will use it as they work to try and boost damage out of their power build. The recent changes to SA (ie flickering shadows) makes those two lines a perfect match if in d/x power. The question I will try and answer is whether TR can be dropped in favor of DA for a da/cs/sa build post patch. INI might be a concern.

TR can't be dropped in high end pvp ever. BT+ini+sleight+lead attacks is impossible to give up.

CS can't compare to any thief traitline atm in terms of damage or utility, after patch it will compete with SA since SA dropped in utility. And you might not need the utility from SA anymore since most mobile/port classes are nerfed so u can get away without SA

All of this remains to be seen when measuring damage output and boon prevalence.

BT sees a nerf with one less boon stolen. Where I see SA and CS is rending shade for boon rip which will provide more boon rip overall then BT (RS steals stacks as well) combined with Hidden killer and flickering shadows. You come out of stealth with Crit at 100 percent and the 33 percent added protection from Flickering. Lead attacks is the big hit but I would consider dropping DA over TR given the hit to mug. Assassins fury might is > what you get from even the odds.

DA line took more hits then CS line. |In other words consider CS/SA/TR

I have a hard time going too far off of my base line, I feel like you can supplement BT but you're not really going to replace it. I also feel like deciding on dropping Trickery because I don't need one of it's features is still a hit by losing the rest. Maybe it's my game mode or I need to plan better but most of my take downs are split second decisions that are opportune and I need all of Trickery on people. Maybe it will be different after the patch where I'll be forced to spend more time on someone but I feel like at least opening someone up fast to at least steer them into a take down will still need the usual kit.

By the way I take Rending Shade because BT takes out the front of the line for RS to noramlly take a better stack. I don't think I'd bother with boon theft at all unless it was added as consequence and would probably funnel into some extreme build without doubling and tripling boon steal.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It's all subjective as I prefer cs/tr/da and run heal and ini on stealth instead of RS cuz I dont like fearing my opponent's away and chasing them with HS but I can definitely see why its prob better just prefer the other. Also I find mug annoying as sometimes I forget to hit backstab before steal messing up my burst and just use dagger training lol. Improvisation's can give ubgreat sustain or dps IF it refreshes what u need at the time so I always prefered the almost always 20% dps as after a backstab most were under 50 hp :).But to me crit strikes,valkyrie rune and scholars with hidden killer is the best which again is subjective.Even with marauder and eagle sometimes I'd hid for low dps on backstab whereas I know 100% with hidden killer that my backstabs will always give high burst and the autos and HS following will crit as well.Even with SA giving 2 secs stealth on heal,condi cleanse while stealth'd,33% reduced damage on revealed and healing/ini on stealth it will still trump DA for me but I'd never give up trickery for DA or anything especially after the ini cost increase next patch paired with the boonsteal,lead attacks and SOH make the traitlines almost mandatory.I don't get the ini increases to be honest as one of the major issues with thief was its reliance on the trickery line and the team just exacerbated that problem.Its awesome to be able to for go traiting a cleanse utility due to the SA trait to open up more build possibilities and that alone is worth more to me than what DA offers lol. Unless I'm running condi DA never seems to add much for me but again all just opinion based.

[babazhook.6805]

The weight we attach to various components of the game is going to change quite a bit IMO.

The ability to inflict damage will become more important.INI will be more important and is tied to damage.Armor and toughness will be more important especially when we face those with an abundance. Longer fights will mean it plays a greater role.

Right now I am not seeing Boon theft as becoming more important. Thieves will be looking to put more damage into their builds and along with those longer fights be looking for ways to take a few more hits. Even with damage out of the opponent drops , when they are facing a thief they generally have a lot less in the way of hit points that they have to overcome.

Acro has been gutted as a defensive trait line. I do not see many thieves going there for sustain/defense leaving SA and to a lesser extent DD.

[kash.9213]

@babazhook.6805 said:The weight we attach to various components of the game is going to change quite a bit IMO.

The ability to inflict damage will become more important.INI will be more important and is tied to damage.Armor and toughness will be more important especially when we face those with an abundance. Longer fights will mean it plays a greater role.

Right now I am not seeing Boon theft as becoming more important. Thieves will be looking to put more damage into their builds and along with those longer fights be looking for ways to take a few more hits. Even with damage out of the opponent drops , when they are facing a thief they generally have a lot less in the way of hit points that they have to overcome.

Acro has been gutted as a defensive trait line. I do not see many thieves going there for sustain/defense leaving SA and to a lesser extent DD.

Ya that roll out made me wonder if the live patch will have things filled in where Acro makes sense some how that we just can't see yet. Even where stealth took a hit SA utility is still awesome and there should still be options for traits. Maybe I'm missing something but I can't see why I'd take Acro and not something like that SA DrD build sind was messing around with.