Condition Revenants: Axe and Mallyx too large area on their control effects

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@LaGranse.8652 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Josh.4132 said:I’d say the reason condi rev shoots down most other condi classes is because the average player that uses condi builds completely forgets condis exist and don’t take their own cleanses.

@Josh.4132 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

But they are better on rev than on most classes and absurdly good against condi.

I personally use dwarf, it has overall good skills.

Between resistance and the clears that rev does on condi rev I feel about as good against condi as I do on most other classes

The thing is though If you’re using cleasing sigils, plus dwarf for the cleanse, plus the condi transfers, plus the resistance. Then you have dedicated a lot of traits and adjusted your build to counter condis, this is how it should be.

With the exception of dwarf most of those have very low opportunity costs. Dwarf generally isn't used on the problematic build, it usually uses dragon as that's much better for outnumbering people.

The cleansing potential isn't problematic, the transfer potential is, espec as you can let the stacks grow while you have resistance so there's no real risk to it

Cleansing works the same for rev as it does for all other classes. Changing our utilities on legend swap sometimes doesn’t help us especially now since you’re forced to swap legend to use the other legend’s stun break because of the loss of empty vessel

Rev almost swaps on cooldown, because that's how you use energy the most efficient, making cleansing get relatively close to maximum effectiveness on rev, as opposed to builds that swap a lot less.

I’d say the reason condi rev shoots down most other condi classes is because the average player that uses condi builds completely forgets condis exist and don’t take their own cleanses.

The condis that the actual rev do are at a good spot rn, the transfers are not, yesterday on multiple occasions I got 40+ stacks of torment and 20+ stacks of burn on me just from transfers, from revs that didn't even use any dmg skills. This is essentially a 1 shot, from a very easy situation to trigger.

For the rev to transfer that amount of condi they would have to have the conditions on themself first. When the rev pulls conditions from allies onto themself they do get a few seconds of resistance to deal with it short term, however, the opponent can dodge/ be out of range of the transfer and then the rev killed themself instead.

With 5 targets using absorption once gives you 8 sec of resistance. That's not short, that's close enough to forever.

It's an extremely low risk high reward playstyle that rewards outnumbering the enemy and creates poor play patterns.

But that's the case for pretty much everything. Outnumbering the enemy will most of the times have more benefits than being outnumbered. Giving out any boon is more effective if you give it to 5 people than to less than 5.

Boons increase your effectiveness, if you're a better player, you gain a larger benefit. The problem isn't that there's benefits to outnumbering, ofc there should be (the game would be very weird otherwise and even fighting outnumbered would be boring).

The problem is when those advantages take the form of a very common and oppressive build that gives a disproportionate advantage in these situations.

This is a similar issue to excessive mobility/burst/invuln builds, they punish outnumbered situations much more than is reasonable and makes combat more often just come down to numbers.

Same thing as offensive AoE caps, retaliation and the downed state. They give benefits that are arbitrary.

I still don't understand your point. If you're a better player, you'll be able to better use the mallyx "pull and spread" mechanic, you gain a larger benefit from correctly pulling the conditions onto you and sharing them efficiently by having proper positioning.

Except that it's so simple that there's no being good or bad at it.

Most importantly, in my 3 man group for example, I could swap to transfer rev, but most fights

1. I never have that amount of stacks, except when fighting transfer revs, meaning it's a build whose main counter is itself, clearly unhealthy.

2. If they have 2 transfer revs they still just win then. Transfers are just a poor mechanic.

3. I actually have to use my energy to dmg, they don't because they can afford to do no dmg outside of transfers, which is how most of them play.

Smaller groups can't afford having someone only do that because they're fewer.

Invoke torment only has a 240 radius, so there's a "being good" at it.

1. The counter to the build is to just remove/corrupt his resistance, not standing in his 240 radius, or dodge when you see his legend swap icon pop up, since invoke torment is delayed. He'll just kill himself if you do that.

That's all well and good in theory, but given that they have

Dmg to healing from dragon, so if they fail and run out of resistance they pop that and run awayCover boons, so removing the resistance often doesn't workGenerally just stand next to you spamming new resistanceTrue nature demon has next to no animation

The problem is mostly that it turns players who play very poorly (most of the people who started playing transfer rev I've seen before on a variety of other stuff where they were ignorable) into massive threats that are very difficult to deal with.

Tbh, they don't seem very difficult to deal for me. I just remove their resistance, and they just die. You can even throw cover conditions on them, so that they spread the wrong thing. Or just play a power build, since all they apparently do is spam resistance. You could also just use an epidemic and kill their whole team. (After stripping resistance)

So your suggestions are

1. Swap to a different class, that seems like a healthy counterplay....
2. Epidemic against someone who spams resistance... When the skill is already trash, and from a class that's a joke in small groups
3. 1 person from the enemy team being "useless" doesn't matter super much when you're 3v10.

You've clearly never played against it

I'm just giving actual counters. I've actually played against plenty of them, and they've never been a problem. I've either just corrupted their resistance, removed their resistance or kited them.

Actually none of those are counters. The fact that you mention epidemic kinda says it all.

It just looks like you don't want to adapt to new things. Pulsating Pestilence has been in the game for a long time, the same for the Glint spread. And now it is suddenly a problem?

It was a problem last patch, just less common. The herald transfer is the bigger problem.

2. If they have 2 transfer revs they'll just steal the conditions from each other, which could lead to one of them spreading nothing at all if he tried to do so at the wrong time. More transfer revs would make it even more complicated to spread at the correct time, since everyone could just pull the conditions to themselves.

You don't need to time it tho, you just keep repeating the process until it succeeds once, which is all it takes.

Those 5 revenants spamming resistance are not going to do anything against anyone if they just waste their energy on that. They'll just get killed by any power build / get corrupted by a necro and die.

3. That's like saying smaller groups can't afford to play pure support builds, since they can afford to do no dmg outside of healing/supporting.

They can obviously, mostly because healer is a core part of the combat system. They do many things, like heal, boons, clear, cc etc.

This is more like saying that winds of disenchantment is worse in a 3 man group than in a zerg as 1 person doing "nothing" is a bigger problem there. Or like saying that siege favors the bigger side because you can afford to have 1 person afking on a ballista spamming 1.

All extremely specialized roles are much weaker in smallscale.

Yeah, so if "condi spread rev" is a specialized role like the others (which it isn't), why is that one "bad" for the game, but other specialized specs doing their thing aren't?

Condi transfer rev, big difference

Most of extremely specialized builds are bad for the game. This is just the one that's relevant to the thread and currently the most common/powerful.

Stop attributing opinions I don't have. to me

Yeah, except it is not the most common/powerful build atm. The only one I've seen claiming that is you. Stop attributing your opinion to others. Condi transfer rev is nothing new.

It's the most common/powerful gimick build atm. It's more common than last patch. I am well aware it's existed since true nature - demon was added.

When I encountered it twice a week it just didn't really feel like an issue, as annoying as it was, now I encounter it on a daily basis.

If you have more people, they could share more boons, making them permanent and it would be "oppressive" to the enemy. Having permanent uptime on every boon and having them fully stacked gives a disproportionate advantage against enemies that aren't fully buffed.

No it doesn't, because with the exception of resistance/retal, they're all just "multipliers" of how powerful you are. They increase your dmg by a percentage, they don't suddenly make you go from doing no dmg to instagibbing people.

If you die in 10 sec to power dmg without protection, you die in 15 with it.

If you do very little dmg because you use your skills poorly, then 25 might means you do very little dmg +20-30% (or whatever 25 stacks of might ends up at).

Same with quickness, fury, regen, swiftness etc

I don't know, 25 might and quickness can't pretty quickly turn into a "instagib". Fighting someone with full buffs at all times as someone without buffs is pretty horrendous. I still remember fighting multiple boon beasts in the past.

It might make them do double normal dmg if they have 25 might/fury/quickness, but double nothing is still nothing.

The threat is most definitively amplified, but it doesn't turn someone who is completely harmless into a 1 shotting thing that shuts you down.

???Full boons turn anyone into killing machines that shut down anything, if you yourself don't have any boons. A group of 10 full buffed players will easily roll over a non-buffed 5man team in seconds.

No it doesn't.

1. If the 5 man group has no boons they're doing something very wrong
2. Boons are powerful but someone who does no dmg won't instantly start doing dmg just cause they got boons
3. Boons are a central part of the game, not a tiny niche like condi transfers are
4. Boons don't randomly 1 shot you with instant skills

Yes they do. They will just run over you. Full boon people are killing machines.

Not if they're bad, people don't turn into "killing machines" just cause they have a few boons. If you struggle with this, then that's a personal failing.

1. Someone that doesn't transfer anything also doesn't do any dmg just because they have conditions on them.

With the extremely low cooldown on the transfers they can just keep trying til they succeed.

2. Conditions are a central part of the game, so are any ways that handle them in any way, be that cleanse, transfer or copy.

Conditions are. Transfers are very rare, they only exist on Rev and Necro. Herald has a total of 2 sources of it, that's hardly a "central part of the game". Changing the transfers to conversions/cleanses wouldn't take away much except a way to cheese fights where you already outnumber the enemy.

3. Awareness is key, if you don't have it, you should die. It's pretty obvious when a revenant is keeping close to you and spamming resistance.

Being aware of it doesn't mean that you can stop it. I am always aware that they're gonna do it, that doesn't mean it is something that I can stop.

4. 10man groups will instantly one shot you, no matter what classes they have.

3v10s (or similar) for example happen quite often in my experience.

Obviously this doesn't work if the 10 are competent, but then it doesn't really matter what they play as 3v10 competent people is an impossible fight either way.

You also completely ignored the thing about having more people = more potential condi cleanses completely disrupting the spread / stacking of conditions.

Well more people might mean that sometimes you only transfer 20 instead of 40 stacks, that is still very powerful. If the conditions that was intended to be transferred gets cleared, then you just try again, not like you died.

That bigger groups overall counter condis is a different matter, as that's nowhere near as oppressive. I do think clears should be more personal and less groupwide but completely different matter.

More people might also mean that instead of 40 or 20 you transfer 0, since it was cleansed. If you need so much setup to transfer anything, the enemies would already be dead with a full buffed team.

Gimmicky builds that hardcounter "normal" builds and are extremely easy to play are terrible design. The setup is incredibly easy.

Obviously making everyone around you suddenly competent for them having boons to really do much would be more powerful, but for better or worse there's no build that suddenly makes their surroundings competent.

It's not a gimmicky build if it's what makes Mallyx Mallyx. It's a perfectly normal build. You not being able to handle it doesn't make it a gimmick.

If all you think Mallyx is, is herald f2 and one trait (that btw isn't actually connected to mallyx, but usually used in conjunction with) then you seem to have an extremely limited view.

Next thing you're going to say is Aegis on Guard is gimmicky, or boon corrupts on Necro are gimicky.

Nope.

Apparently the Mallyx build makes everyone in the enemy team incompetent, since they're all getting hit by a transfer lol.

Nice try. Mallyx is "slightly" more than true nature - demon (which is the bigger problem) and permeating pestilence.

You yourself said "outnumbering" the enemy would make the "condi spread rev" stronger, but it actually doesn't, since it gives him even less opportunities to use his tactic. It actually makes pretty much every other build stronger, that doesn't rely on self spreading.

More targets also means more people to

6. Absorb the boon removals
7. People to pain absorption from
8. People to demon facet from
9. People to hide behind as you run away with dragon heal to reset

If a build makes someone "bad" go from being ignorable to being a massive problem, then clearly something is off with the build.

Anyway you seem to have very little experience, I really don't mean this in a rude way but something tells me you mostly zerg in which case you can't really see the problem.

The targets for absorb are capped at 5, there can be multiple people using cleanses that hit you. If you're running the glint heal you're not in mallyx and are therefore not spamming resistance, nor spamming any transfers, nor pulling any condis to you.

It's a panic button for if people focus the transfer rev, the exact kind that is powerful when outnumbering the enemy. They can btw transfer when swapping from dragon too.

It seems to be only a problem for you, I haven't actually seen too many complaints apart from yours.It looks like you don't really roam a lot, since you seem to have problems with condi revs. Doesn't seem that you have a lot of experience with condi revs. Maybe instead of mindlessly running into a higher enemy count of players, and then crying about loosing to a "simple-minded" build, you should actually check what your own build is capable of.

I am well aware of what my build can do.

Which is why I am capable of saying that something is clearly busted if it completely changes the dynamics of fights to such a degree that people you were 3v10ing 2 hours ago have 1(rather mediocre) player from their group swap to transfer rev and suddenly the fight goes from easy to extremely difficult, then that probably hints at something being broken.

It's also pretty funny that someone with "very little experience" seems to have an easier time combatting this build than someone that claims to know a lot more.

Ya it's so hard to "counter" things when zerging /sarcasm

You seem extremely invested in defending this I wonder why...

Anyway, I am not gonna waste anymore breath on you, I doubt it would lead anywhere, except you trying to compare stuff like boons to transfers and suggest things like epidemic to counter a build with high resistance uptime and strong clears, which is kinda funny, but is getting kinda old.

Wait, are you saying you were in the group of 3 and was fighting the 10? Or was it the other way around?

[lodjur.1284]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

It would certainly make me never play condi rev again...

I don't really think condi rev would be viable without tormenting runes

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Wait, are you saying you were in the group of 3 and was fighting the 10? Or was it the other way around?

Me in a group of 3 on condi ren.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

It would certainly make me never play condi rev again...

I don't really think condi rev would be viable without tormenting runes

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Wait, are you saying you were in the group of 3 and was fighting the 10? Or was it the other way around?

Me in a group of 3 on condi ren.

Sooooooo you’re complaining that you lost to a group of 10 and are blaming the condi revenant? Not because your group was heavily outnumbered?

[lodjur.1284]

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

It would certainly make me never play condi rev again...

I don't really think condi rev would be viable without tormenting runes

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Wait, are you saying you were in the group of 3 and was fighting the 10? Or was it the other way around?

Me in a group of 3 on condi ren.

Sooooooo you’re complaining that you lost to a group of 10 and are blaming the condi revenant? Not because your group was heavily outnumbered?

Same group that we fought earlier and won against easily, 2 people who previously evaporated in seconds swaps to transfer revs, suddenly it's extremely difficult.

Nothing else changed.

Kinda makes me think the build is a bit problematic

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

It would certainly make me never play condi rev again...

I don't really think condi rev would be viable without tormenting runes

@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:Wait, are you saying you were in the group of 3 and was fighting the 10? Or was it the other way around?

Me in a group of 3 on condi ren.

Sooooooo you’re complaining that you lost to a group of 10 and are blaming the condi revenant? Not because your group was heavily outnumbered?

Same group that we fought earlier and won against easily, 2 people who previously evaporated in seconds swaps to transfer revs, suddenly it's extremely difficult.

Nothing else changed.

Kinda makes me think the build is a bit problematic

It was a 10 v 3. Kind of makes me think they were just goofing off the first time.

Let’s talk about real fights next time. And not this silly outnumbered gameplay.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

And they have been broken this whole time, people just haven't been privy to Mallyx so don't seem to realize or care yet about how dumb the runes are. Here, I even made a video for all the people who don't play Mallyx. Clip is short but gets the point across. Uninstall all you want, I'd rather have the spec not nerfed for the wrong reasons in WvW because of this dumb hard carry.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

And they have been broken this whole time, people just haven't been privy to Mallyx so don't seem to realize or care yet about how dumb the runes are. Here, I even made a video for all the people who don't play Mallyx. Clip is short but gets the point across. Uninstall all you want, I'd rather have the spec not nerfed for the wrong reasons in WvW because of this dumb hard carry.

^this. Torment runes are absurd and their healing should get mega nerfed or completely changed

[Scoobaniec.9561]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If these complaints about condi Rev are in regards to WvW, I suggest that before they make any class-based adjustments, they completely rework the 6-piece bonus of Tormenting Runes.

If they touch them im uninstalling. Had them for a long time and i i rather keep it that way. Mace is already high risk due to a ...melee torment

And they have been broken this whole time, people just haven't been privy to Mallyx so don't seem to realize or care yet about how dumb the runes are. Here, I even made a video for all the people who don't play Mallyx. Clip is short but gets the point across. Uninstall all you want, I'd rather have the spec not nerfed for the wrong reasons in WvW because of this dumb hard carry.

Mallyx is garbage without these runes. Besides stacking up 5 mobs proves nothing. Go ahead and show you winning in 1v5 if you wanna make a point. The healing is nowhere near as potent in 1v1 and vs group youll get destroyed before you even gain 5k hp off these runes

[Yasai.3549]

Mallyx, like all Revs, are extremely weak to CC.

Right now, Revenants are by far the most susceptible to CC of any other Profession in the game.Energy they spend on Stunbreaking is Energy not spent on CoA, Mace skills, or EtD.

Just bring some CC of any sort, it doesn't even have to do damage, just burning them out of Energy for Stunbreaks is sufficient to keep their damage low and allow yu to counter attack.

Only thing yu have to avoid at this point is Invoke Torment, and I assure yu Condi Rev will do absolute jack.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Yasai.3549 said:Mallyx, like all Revs, are extremely weak to CC.

Right now, Revenants are by far the most susceptible to CC of any other Profession in the game.Energy they spend on Stunbreaking is Energy not spent on CoA, Mace skills, or EtD.

Just bring some CC of any sort, it doesn't even have to do damage, just burning them out of Energy for Stunbreaks is sufficient to keep their damage low and allow yu to counter attack.

Only thing yu have to avoid at this point is Invoke Torment, and I assure yu Condi Rev will do absolute jack.

This. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been stunlocked to death lately.

[Arkantos.7460]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Josh.4132 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

It has plenty of ways of dealing with condi, at least the transfer builds would even without.

When you think about it though and compare to other professions, outside of the transfer, rev doesn’t have a lot of good cleanses, and this has always been one of revs biggest downfalls. The only realistic ones I can think of are one cleanse on legend swap, 2 on staff, and 6 On the dwarf heal? The others would be traited shield skills and Ventari but these in general aren’t really worth including unless playing support.

You haveCleansing sigil (all classes but very good since stance swap counts)1 on swap with invoDwarf heal 5Mallyx resistance on trait and activeSome various stuff like removing chill/immob/cripple in assassin.

Presumably permeating and true nature could be replaced with normal clears or something too

WOW,Mallyx , Jalis, Shiro .... plz show me a single rev using theese 3 for a balanced condi cleanse option theese daysnext is rev IS MELEE to mid range ... this is the next downgrade .... and dont come up with shortbow(s high energy costs and clunky skills)ppls complaining wich never played a energy/CD based class in tpvp ... 1 false legendswap and go can go down easily whihc no other class has .... warrior with his never ending evade and block and invulnerability skills and escape options ...

[lodjur.1284]

@Arkantos.7460 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

@Josh.4132 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:

It has plenty of ways of dealing with condi, at least the transfer builds would even without.

When you think about it though and compare to other professions, outside of the transfer, rev doesn’t have a lot of good cleanses, and this has always been one of revs biggest downfalls. The only realistic ones I can think of are one cleanse on legend swap, 2 on staff, and 6 On the dwarf heal? The others would be traited shield skills and Ventari but these in general aren’t really worth including unless playing support.

You haveCleansing sigil (all classes but very good since stance swap counts)1 on swap with invoDwarf heal 5Mallyx resistance on trait and activeSome various stuff like removing chill/immob/cripple in assassin.

Presumably permeating and true nature could be replaced with normal clears or something too

WOW,Mallyx , Jalis, Shiro .... plz show me a single rev using theese 3 for a balanced condi cleanse option theese days

Are you trying to say most revenant don't use at least 1 of those 3?

What does this have to do with transfers?

next is rev IS MELEE to mid range ... this is the next downgrade .... and dont come up with shortbow(s high energy costs and clunky skills)

Rev has only melee weapons with the exception ofHammer (long range)Shortbow (midrange, but terrible)

ppls complaining wich never played a energy/CD based class in tpvp ... 1 false legendswap and go can go down easily whihc no other class has .... warrior with his never ending evade and block and invulnerability skills and escape options ...

I do play revenant...? What has this got to do with revenant's condi transfers and true nature in particular.

@Yasai.3549 said:Mallyx, like all Revs, are extremely weak to CC.

Right now, Revenants are by far the most susceptible to CC of any other Profession in the game.Energy they spend on Stunbreaking is Energy not spent on CoA, Mace skills, or EtD.

Just bring some CC of any sort, it doesn't even have to do damage, just burning them out of Energy for Stunbreaks is sufficient to keep their damage low and allow yu to counter attack.

Only thing yu have to avoid at this point is Invoke Torment, and I assure yu Condi Rev will do absolute jack.

Invoke torment is a very small problem compared to True Nature - Demon. The skill actually can't be avoided at the moment, ignores blocks/evades/blinds, has no almost no visual component, is very close to instant and a massive 600 radius (all of which could in theory be okay for a skill, if it's impact was very small, not a single part of which is okay for a skill with the potential to almost 1 shot).

All condi rev builds just ate big nerfs in sPvP because of condi herald overperforming. Herald was left completely untouched, hopefully this doesn't reach WvW.

[Draygorn.7012]

What's worse is the nerfs were just increased energy cost and CDs. I don't get why they don't tune down the over performing abilities instead. If they just keep packaging on energy cost and CDs, rev will become very unpleasant to play

[Shao.7236]

Was properly nerfed as I would have at least wished it to be. Now it's oppressive but have value!

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Draygorn.7012 said:What's worse is the nerfs were just increased energy cost and CDs. I don't get why they don't tune down the over performing abilities instead. If they just keep packaging on energy cost and CDs, rev will become very unpleasant to play

Agreed. It’s getting pretty close to it now.