The problem with firebrand.

[drydude.3986]

Firebrand is disgustingly good right now, although this patch did hit it, it simply wasnt enough to put it in line with the other nerfed professions. The damage focused builds on it still deal WAY TOO MUCH damage while still being solid supports. This provides a solid 2 firebrand or firebrand condition revenant set up for 2 vs 2s that greatly skews the wins towards these kinds of compositions. I'd like to see solid damage reductions across the board on firebrand and nerfs to the support they bring to the team with their tomes , which should force them to be more careful with their cooldowns and have it be as impactful as a tempest or a scrapper (other support oriented elite specializations that cannot properly shine because of firebrand's presence since the release of PoF). Firebrand has probably been a nightmare to balance, but the game has definitely been heading towards a wonderful direction with the last patch (HUGE thumbs up btw I love it so much), the nerfs on most professions has been on point, I've felt the effects as a holosmith player and it feels rewarding and skillful to be able to outplay and mind game opponents, but I've got to be honest and admit that firebrand literally HARD carries its players, since it avoided being nerfed as hard as the other professions (please keep the game going in this direction).

You should also be looking into condition revenant and core necromancer, but so far the big outlier of the current patch is definitely firebrand BY FAR.

Please, for the sake of profession diversity and general balance, firebrands must be toned down.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Yours truly, Drydude.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

tomes were nerfed... so might try nerfing something else before them again.

oh yeah, fb still doesn't have a trade off.

[Thorstienn.1642]

I think FBs problem has always stemmed from their implementation through the trait system. Top to bottom is pretty much damage, support, tomes: and that's the issue. The tomes should of been a bit weaker in general, but then be buffed by choices in traits; top to bottom, Justice focus (with prob axe), Resolve focus, Courage focus, (mantras somewhere).This would force FBs to make more of a choice in what they want to be, like most other "balanced" specs.

[Sylanna.1947]

Remember when anet nerfed druid pets as a tradeoff so that they weren't being great support AND doing damage? Why is there no tradeoff for FB? They're able to do everything with one build.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Firebrand doesn't have a moment of weakness because their can just rotate through their tomes like a fractal god going through their burst rotation and immediately swapping to party-wide 25-might spam support.

It's indecisively strong to be able to apply pressure while being on the "defensive". This is partly due to mantras being insta-cast and having 3 charges. Partly due to this tome mechanic been given to a heavy armor class with extremely solid weapon kits that serve both utility, damage and sustain.

There's no fix to this; firebrand is the type of design that I like to call 'fundamentally broken'. Broken, in this context, meaning unable to be balanced. it will always either be too strong, or too weak to see play in any shape or form.

[Shao.7236]

Y'all stop involving condition revenant into the mix, the class is fine. People get this idea that the class is busted when the Herald/Mallyx build I have seen going around is a joke and dies to Core Revenant by sheer outplay, effectively it's carried by whatever FB or Core Necro they have because Herald/Mallyx is PURELY good against Condition and nothing else. Most Condition Revenant are just like Power Shiro playing the build because that's what people talk about /mEtA/, I stopped playing Mallyx/Herald many seasons back because it's awful against anything that isn't condition damage and Core Revenant at a higher skill ceiling just exceeds at more things for losing one transfer.

In fact people should have a look at Hardlight Arena stacking from Holosmith, that combination is awfully broken with the EVEN lower cooldown, the pulse reductions did nothing and Flash Shell is still full immunity to damage as it spam blinds every 20 seconds, stupid CD.

@NorthernRedStar.3054

Pages should be universal and consume other tomes pages when one is used, if one firebrand decides to grab his other tomes out early, he gets less pages. Each page takes 5 second to restore.

[drydude.3986]

I guess we nerf smoke bomb, smoke field, and any field that spams blinds? (cooldown of smoke bomb is equal to the cooldown of flash shell) holosmith is no longer a problem, that hard light arena hit was a wonderful way to not have boons going for 2 years, while still keeping it relevant for the cleanses from inventions' anti-corrosion plating trait.

[Arken.3725]

I may not agree entirely with drydude but I will say that as a FB main, it needs needs(along with Necro and condi-rev). These three professions are head over heels above the rest. It's not even a joke.

I don't give a crap if my main gets nerfed as long as it's for the betterment of this game. So I say, let the nerfs fly.

[Aza.2105]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:tomes were nerfed... so might try nerfing something else before them again.

oh yeah, fb still doesn't have a trade off.

The only thing I can think of is some sort of penalty from cycling through tomes. Sometime like after using a tome you get a debuff, if you swap to a tome before the debuff expires you get -toughness or something. Its a difficult spec to balance because they do a bit of everything and they are good at it.

[Buran.3796]

@Shao.7236 said:because Herald/Mallyx is PURELY good against Condition and nothing else. Most Condition Revenant are just like Power Shiro playing the build because that's what people talk about /mEtA/, I stopped playing Mallyx/Herald many seasons back because it's awful against anything that isn't condition damage and Core Revenant at a higher skill ceiling just exceeds at more things for losing one transfer.

Your core Jalis/ Mallyx build is great, but also is Cevni's renegade with shortbow and condi Herald with Glint/Mallyx works great. Don't see the problem with people enjoying some variety (specially before the dust settles). And by the way current Rev staff is just crap.

[Shao.7236]

@Buran.3796 said:

@Shao.7236 said:because Herald/Mallyx is PURELY good against Condition and nothing else. Most Condition Revenant are just like Power Shiro playing the build because that's what people talk about /mEtA/, I stopped playing Mallyx/Herald many seasons back because it's awful against anything that isn't condition damage and Core Revenant at a higher skill ceiling just exceeds at more things for losing one transfer.

Your core Jalis/ Mallyx build is great, but also is Cevni's renegade with shortbow and condi Herald with Glint/Mallyx works great. Don't see the problem with people enjoying some variety (specially before the dust settles). And by the way current Rev staff is just kitten.

I'm totally for variety, however Mallyx/Herald is quite inferior against anything that isn't condition because it can't kite the same as Shiro. I speak from experience with it, it's incredibly strong against condi focused teams because it has 2 transfers back to back and weaponize pressure, but I don't buy the hype around that it's broken since it's so easy to control one. Should Anet make CtA back to 35 energy with a 5 second cooldown, it will be balanced because that's the only complain I ever hear, too much CC and it really is the thing that people are unable to fathom around it as well. It's an automatic bad spot if that PT misses/interrupt for Shiro and so should for Mallyx, it also balances out the fact EtD is really good and the energy will be more expensive to burst with, it's too easy right now.

The only reason core is better at everything because of Jalis giving stability/dmg reduction to Mallyx which in turn allow for free bursting without the fear of being controlled.

I agree with that staff being garbage, but it's still good at kitting which is what people should care.

[mrauls.6519]

Nerf axe and all tome damage by another 33%. Hehehehehehhe

[Pies.7462]

Honestly, the biggest issue in my mind is the ridiculous Condi spam output they can put, while simultaneously dazeing you, and potentially immobilizing you. On top of all of this, the same symbol gives them boons, they get RIDICULOUS amounts of Resistance uptime, perma protection, fury, 10+ might for breathing..... It makes literally no sense. Buff durations needs to be cut in 1/4th without investing in Concentration, power scaling across the board needs to be reduced by ~10-20% for power builds, or they need to remove the Daze trait and rework it to something else. AoE cc should have to be a heavy investment for the class, not the objectively best choice in any scenario, with any build.

[Math.5123]

@Pies.7462 said:they get RIDICULOUS amounts of Resistance uptime,Yes, 4 seconds every 85 seconds. (make that 8 seconds if you reset it with Renewed Focus)

perma protectionNot even close lol

fury,Yes, from both Axe and Sword symbol.

10+ might for breathing.....No they don't either they use scepter and stand in the scepter symbol. Or they get it from Courage + Battle sigils while proccing zealous scepter and having Loremaster equiped.

AoE cc should have to be a heavy investment for the class, not the objectively best choice in any scenario, with any build.You give up a lot of quickness uptime for it. But yes, it's objectively the best trait in the tier.

I'll give you some advice. When asking for a build to be nerfed, it's pointless to over exaggerate. Discuss facts about what is bothering you (with actual numbers) and go from there.I too think Firebrand is currently waaayyyy too strong and needs toning down. But nerfing the resistance isn't going to do anything about it.

I think the easiest way forward would be to just delete either big symbols or the duration increase on the symbols. This would make it A LOT less oppressive to fight against. I don't feel like much else would be needed.

[Erzian.5218]

Personally, I think fb has too much cc for the support (boons and healing) that it provides, especially if you consider that guardian itself has traditionally been a class with very little cc. Cc is the kind of “support“ that necro and hammer warrior should provide, not guardian. As such, they should just remove the cc/rework the cc skills into something else but we will probably just get more druid nerfs instead like every patch as it is clearly overperforming in the support role. Smh.