How to fix the new player experience.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

I'll just briefly say that I agree with OP, and much rather spend real cash on new elite specs than instant lvl 80s.

I would gladly spend my money on something that would give me a land spear, a scythe, or even a whip... also on something (ES) that would give me the ability to use any weapon on any character.

I would also spend real money on mercenary slots.

I will not spend 2k gems on an ILVL80.

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:have you ever met zhaitan? the creature they built up during most of the game? do you remember how bad it was?we had a ELDER DRAGON, who forgot about her CLAWS. she forgot about GRAVITY. but she can still TELEPORT TROOPS ONTO A FLYING AIRSHIP.all she had to do was to fly ON TOP of the airship and scratch a little. but no, lets use the difficult solution, that doesnt work any way.and that is after the 3 last horrible zones. its a little miracle, that so many could get through it at all.i did it twice. and considering how many times i had to rezz the others, i am far from the bottom of the barrel tooand people who want to support the core game, dont GET more core game either. all you want is other players to pay for YOUR entertainment.the expansions are totally different from the core game.

Most accounts didn't even reach those 3 "horrible zones", they stopped much earlier.

even the mighty wow only had 10 % of the players go past lvl 20. and that was at its prime. only 5% ever reached max level.such is the nature of the mmo business. and when they went F2P they opened the gates for a ton of alts and mules, they will make italmost impossible to use account metrics anymore.

That doesn't change the fact that a lot of the players stopped before those "horrible" 3 zones, meaning they found something they didn't like much earlier. You keep saying that the expansions are horrible, yet the expansions are superior to the core game for quite a lot of players. There are some that would still prefer the core game over the expansions, but that begs the question what they are doing in the game, Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, it's 2020, expecting the game to "go back to core" is unreasonable and all it would do is force the existing players to leave the game.

And further, Season 1 and Season 2 both had content beyond the core game, Dry Top and Silverwastes make Orr look like a joke, so it still begs the question what are these types of players still doing in the game.

perhaps they arent in the game anymore, and that is why revenue is dropping? just guessing here....

The revenue was dropping much faster during the first year though. Maybe if they didn't make the expansions the game would be dead by now.

and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

[battledrone.8315]

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards

[Dami.5046]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"The Greyhawk.9107" said:OP has obviously never played a Korean MMO if they think GW2's leveling process is a "slog".

Yup. And you get xp for almost anything you do in the game -not sure leveling in mmorpg can get much more casual than it is here.

If I had a pound for everytime people moan this game is a 'grind' or some moan about the crafting, then I would be rich. Grind is spending all day playing and only watching your XP bar barely move, or trying to get a crafted weapon only for the first proc to orange fail. Aion had a set of armour to that needed an proc to another item to finish the set that cost a fair bit of ingame money each time, and countless amounts of drops that weren't guaranteed.The only grind for me in this game is having to do the story again and again, but for people who love the story there is none.

[Merrex.5384]

New Players are never going to see some of the epic story lines that older players have witnessed ( This is just Sad in my opinion ). Also many new players struggle to get into groups for Dungeons that older players now find no reason to run Or if they do run them they only advertise level 80 only in the LFG message. And many of the Dungeons and Fractals are just to high level for new players. Many New players go with the Free to Play to give the game a try before they spend the money. It would be like a car salesman showing me one of the car tires and asking me to buy the car based on my one car tire experience And never showing me the actual car I am buying until I actually hand him the cash then I finally get to see what I paid for ( No refunds ). Maybe they need to do a GW2 reboot like WOW did go back the early days maybe on a couple of new servers. Give the new players a chance to see the game evolve and grow like all the others have had the chance. I know LOTRO did something like that on a few servers and it was very popular . It brought back lots of old players and lots of new players.

[Vayne.8563]

Some people love leveling. Some people hate leveling. Taking away something some people like to cater to a group of people who don't doesn't work.

If people want to skip leveling they can buy a level 80 boost. If they want waypoints they can buy waypoint packs. I sorta like how it is now.

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:Remove the Meta and the over hard expansions and the game would shine for new players..

You can't "remove the meta". And the expansions aren't hard.

why could i complete the core game, but not the expansions, then?

...because apparently you failed at learning the basics of the game and its mechanics? Which still doesn't make it hard, it's probably more of a "I just want to press 1 and watch stuff die while I get fat lootz" -in that case you might want to go play an idle/clicker game instead of an rpg.

if they arent hard, then you should see millions of players there

I fail to see the logic in that, there's so many games that aren't hard and yet never reach "millions of players" that I'm not even sure how you came up with this statement.

1: what should they put in it? given the backlash from the first attempts, they have very few choices left2: who is gonna buy it? is there anyone left, that they havent disappointed yet?

What backlash? Seems to me people in general are happy with the expansions.

the few remaining players are obviously, happy or they would had left too

"few"?

but all those, who left ,werent

So what? How does it answer to what I wrote?

anet have the numbers, and you can bet, that if they were GOOD numbers, they would had made more of the same

Not really, that's just another empty claim.

a well run business builds on its strengths, and hides its weaknesses

Again, how is this answer to what I wrote? Why did you decide to include some meaningless slogans here?

[battledrone.8315]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:Remove the Meta and the over hard expansions and the game would shine for new players..

You can't "remove the meta". And the expansions aren't hard.

why could i complete the core game, but not the expansions, then?

...because apparently you failed at learning the basics of the game and its mechanics? Which still doesn't make it hard, it's probably more of a "I just want to press 1 and watch stuff die while I get fat lootz" -in that case you might want to go play an idle/clicker game instead of an rpg.

if they arent hard, then you should see millions of players there

I fail to see the logic in that, there's so many games that aren't hard and yet never reach "millions of players" that I'm not even sure how you came up with this statement.

1: what should they put in it? given the backlash from the first attempts, they have very few choices left2: who is gonna buy it? is there anyone left, that they havent disappointed yet?

What backlash? Seems to me people in general are happy with the expansions.

the few remaining players are obviously, happy or they would had left too

"few"?

but all those, who left ,werent

So what? How does it answer to what I wrote?

anet have the numbers, and you can bet, that if they were GOOD numbers, they would had made more of the same

Not really, that's just another empty claim.

a well run business builds on its strengths, and hides its weaknesses

Again, how is this answer to what I wrote? Why did you decide to include some meaningless slogans here?

why are you still reading this thread, if you dont even try to understand it?

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards

good expansions bring money and playersbad expansions not so muchlook at wow, steady numbers when they were following the formula, after MoP, steady declineand more core game is the only thing anet havent tried yetdo you really not see the pattern here?

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Dante.1508" said:Remove the Meta and the over hard expansions and the game would shine for new players..

You can't "remove the meta". And the expansions aren't hard.

why could i complete the core game, but not the expansions, then?

...because apparently you failed at learning the basics of the game and its mechanics? Which still doesn't make it hard, it's probably more of a "I just want to press 1 and watch stuff die while I get fat lootz" -in that case you might want to go play an idle/clicker game instead of an rpg.

if they arent hard, then you should see millions of players there

I fail to see the logic in that, there's so many games that aren't hard and yet never reach "millions of players" that I'm not even sure how you came up with this statement.

1: what should they put in it? given the backlash from the first attempts, they have very few choices left2: who is gonna buy it? is there anyone left, that they havent disappointed yet?

What backlash? Seems to me people in general are happy with the expansions.

the few remaining players are obviously, happy or they would had left too

"few"?

but all those, who left ,werent

So what? How does it answer to what I wrote?

anet have the numbers, and you can bet, that if they were GOOD numbers, they would had made more of the same

Not really, that's just another empty claim.

a well run business builds on its strengths, and hides its weaknesses

Again, how is this answer to what I wrote? Why did you decide to include some meaningless slogans here?

why are you still reading this thread, if you dont even try to understand it?

Why are you making a bunch of empty unsupported claims to pretend you have an argument when you don't have a valid one?But hey, you actually said you "couldn't complete the expansions" (??), so I should probably lower my expectations here.

[joneirikb.7506]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks.

But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards

good expansions bring money and playersbad expansions not so muchlook at wow, steady numbers when they were following the formula, after MoP, steady declineand more core game is the only thing anet havent tried yetdo you really not see the pattern here?

Not really answering my question. From what you say I'd guess you didn't like S1 or S2 either, if you disliked Orr that much, Silverwastes/Dry Top would overwhelm you even more. Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, you didn't like it. Path of Fire was released in 2017, you didn't like it. This means you haven't liked what this game offers since early 2013/ late 2012. That's 8 years of not liking something yet posting on the forums.

Do notice that both expansions brought money and players. It's a few quarters after the expansions that they started to decline (which is normal, you release another expansion to move forward)

[battledrone.8315]

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks.

But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.

if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards

good expansions bring money and playersbad expansions not so muchlook at wow, steady numbers when they were following the formula, after MoP, steady declineand more core game is the only thing anet havent tried yetdo you really not see the pattern here?

Not really answering my question. From what you say I'd guess you didn't like S1 or S2 either, if you disliked Orr that much, Silverwastes/Dry Top would overwhelm you even more. Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, you didn't like it. Path of Fire was released in 2017, you didn't like it. This means you haven't liked what this game offers since early 2013/ late 2012. That's 8 years of not liking something yet posting on the forums.

Do notice that both expansions brought money and players. It's a few quarters after the expansions that they started to decline (which is normal, you release another expansion to move forward)

and that should tell you how good the core game was. unless corona gets me, im gonna be on these pages for many more years.i actually made map completion in LS 2 on a couple of toons. yes it was a PITA, so im not doing it anymoreif the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it, and there is a clear demand for it too

[Luthan.5236]

I think there are enough ways to level. Wasn't that painful for me to do all 9 chars (each for one main profession ... well I'm still doing the 9th one atm) ... and more you don't need. (People that really want more than 9 chars should not have it too easy.)

There are scrolls, tomes of knowledge. Tons of stuff. Events give lots of exp. And you can do your personal story and world completion and doing some events there. At least while learning a new class (profession) for the first time this was fun for me. (I have saved a lot of tomes and scrolls should I decide do to more alts for some reason.)

Main problem for new players imo is that the "action" is in the latest released maps. But if they jump straighly to these they'll miss a lot of older stuff (lore/story). I bet it is a different feeling to play with all that knowledge. (I'm trying to do HoT first after my break from end 2013 - June 2019 even though a lot of people suggest to at least do chapter 1 from PoF for mounts.)

ArenaNet did a good job at keeping old maps alive with some rare drops for a collection (Ogre Wars and stuff like that still is done - the meta in unpopular core maps). Some other core maps have world bosses. Bust mostly all stuff also can be soloed. More problematic it is in the maps of the expansions where hero challenges require groups. At least in Verdant Brink and Auric Basin I did not have a problem so far - those maps constantly have people doing the meta at any time I joined. Even if there were no huge commander squads everyone at least tried and enough people where there.

Now I consider everything after level 80 end game. (Not the raids but "the real fun" that starts there. Let's say with all the boring core maps and the core personal story it starts with S2 maps and later stuff.) Core stuff is like a tutorial and the core story guiding you from your home starter area over LA to orr is good and necessary for new players. I wouldn't want them to randomly go in every map. Would even scare them away more.

I wouldn't be against "instant level 80 chars on char creation" if a certain main class (profession) got leveled to 80 already (use achievement system for that). Would still require to level 9 chars normally if you want to play every profession. (Or using items.) Then again ... ArenaNet probably wants to sell stuff that makes leveling easier to "altholics" and just knows they are ready to pay. (Easiest would just be to NOT pay for such stuff then and hope for changes.)

[maddoctor.2738]

@"battledrone.8315" said:and that should tell you how good the core game was. unless corona gets me, im gonna be on these pages for many more years.i actually made map completion in LS 2 on a couple of toons. yes it was a PITA, so im not doing it anymoreif the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it, and there is a clear demand for it too

They haven't made an expansion because they don't want to make one, they want to give us "expansion level content" through the living world. I see it as an experiment, and in my opinion it won't succeed. But we'll see.

[kharmin.7683]

@battledrone.8315 said:if the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it,And you know this, how? Maybe the expansions weren't successful enough for the company's stakeholders?

and there is a clear demand for it tooYou have the market research to back up this claim? Forums posters do not in any way constitute a significant majority of the player base. On what do you base this?

[joneirikb.7506]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks.

But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.

if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt

Well everything up to Orr is honestly so easy you can afk auto attack through most of it, Orr was the first area that posed any difficulty. So it's exactly like that, poems and knitting until level 70-75, and then a rock concert from 70-80 in Orr as you finally have to use the combat system.

And if your main thing against Orr is that "I don't like it." at least say so clearly, instead of trying to make up numbers and such.

You could just as well turn those numbers on the head and say that the ones that stayed with the game almost to a man bought the expansion packs, so the expansion packs are why they still play, while all those that didn't buy the expansions didn't stick around and thus left the game. That wouldn't make a stellar argument for Core though.

[Zok.4956]

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:I think it's time to remove levels.

I think that is not a good idea.

With leveling in PvE, a new player can experience a feeling of progression. Without levels/leveling this would be gone for all new players.Also all sub 80 maps would be trivialized much more.

I feel that Guild Wars 2 is a game whose design is focused around the concept of freedom of play

A player can choose to level with scrolls, or with "traditional" game play. That's already in the game.

[battledrone.8315]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:if the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it,And you know this, how? Maybe the expansions weren't successful enough for the company's stakeholders?

and there is a clear demand for it tooYou have the market research to back up this claim? Forums posters do not in any way constitute a significant majority of the player base. On what do you base this?

market research? WTF ? PEOPLE ARE WRITING IT ON THIS FORUM!!! unless you want them to ignore ALL feedback. and then they can just shut the site down, right?i didnt say anything about "MAJORITY" either. the threads SHOWS THE DEMAND.

[battledrone.8315]

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks.

But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.

if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt

Well everything up to Orr is honestly so easy you can afk auto attack through most of it, Orr was the first area that posed any difficulty. So it's exactly like that, poems and knitting until level 70-75, and then a rock concert from 70-80 in Orr as you finally have to use the combat system.

And if your main thing against Orr is that "I don't like it." at least say so clearly, instead of trying to make up numbers and such.

You could just as well turn those numbers on the head and say that the ones that stayed with the game almost to a man bought the expansion packs, so the expansion packs are why they still play, while all those that didn't buy the expansions didn't stick around and thus left the game. That wouldn't make a stellar argument for Core though.

and how many times have they nerfed orr now? 3? 4?. same with hot. you can bet , that they wouldnt waste time and resources on that, if they didnt HAVE to.and if the core was THAT bad, they wouldnt be able to sell any expansions AT ALL.who , in their right minds would buy expansions for a game THEY DIDNT LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE???

[kharmin.7683]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:if the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it,And you know this, how? Maybe the expansions weren't successful enough for the company's stakeholders?

and there is a clear demand for it tooYou have the market research to back up this claim? Forums posters do not in any way constitute a significant majority of the player base. On what do you base this?

market research? kitten ? PEOPLE ARE WRITING IT ON THIS FORUM!!! unless you want them to ignore ALL feedback. and then they can just shut the site down, right?i didnt say anything about "MAJORITY" either. the threads SHOWS THE DEMAND.

Ok, so because a few people on the forum show an interest, then it must be something that should be implemented. I see how that works, now. Thanks for that.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Gracious me, I hope not. Otherwise, we will have open world PvP. :persevere:

[joneirikb.7506]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@joneirikb.7506 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:Nowadays, it's not like the Core game is without restrictions (sans the very few that might find a Serial Key for the original release). If players like what they see (or want Mounts or Gliding or Elite Specs), they will likely purchase the expansion(s) long before Orr or Zhaitan.

Also, what's wrong with Orr?

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps.

1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention.

So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.

imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks.

But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.

if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt

Well everything up to Orr is honestly so easy you can afk auto attack through most of it, Orr was the first area that posed any difficulty. So it's exactly like that, poems and knitting until level 70-75, and then a rock concert from 70-80 in Orr as you finally have to use the combat system.

And if your main thing against Orr is that "I don't like it." at least say so clearly, instead of trying to make up numbers and such.

You could just as well turn those numbers on the head and say that the ones that stayed with the game almost to a man bought the expansion packs, so the expansion packs are why they still play, while all those that didn't buy the expansions didn't stick around and thus left the game. That wouldn't make a stellar argument for Core though.

and how many times have they nerfed orr now? 3? 4?. same with hot. you can bet , that they wouldnt waste time and resources on that, if they didnt HAVE to.and if the core was THAT bad, they wouldnt be able to sell any expansions AT ALL.who , in their right minds would buy expansions for a game THEY DIDNT LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE???

They nerfed Core Tyria just as many times, we're not even allowed to fight champions in starter maps any longer. And entire HoT expansion is exactly because they listened to fans, because the majority of the vocal fans at the time was bored to death with kindergarden core-tyria that didn't have any challenge, nor any "end-game", so they ASKED for harder content with more traditional "end-game" stuff, thus raids and a murderous jungle. We wouldn't have gotten HoT the way it was if players didn't ask for it.

And I've met plenty of people that didn't like core tyria at all, but did end up liking the expansions etc. There is absolutely NO BLANKET STATEMENTS when it comes to player taste.

Speak for yourself, don't try to speak for others.

(And I'm still sad about all the nerfing, on all the maps.)