Potential fix for mirrors (which we all agree is an awful mechanic)

[Senqu.8054]

What if we can have a other way then every time shatter something after 5 years? Shatter this shatter that. Slowly it gets boring... yes to Mirrors shatter would be cool but its again shatter for 2 more years

[FaboBabo.3581]

Right now we actually shatter the mirror without proccing shatter traits - thats weired.

Mirror Duration 10 secProc shatter traitsAmbush attacks 2 sec cast windowMake mirage cloak stackable - 2 Mirrors = 2 seconds.

[Nyel.1843]

@Mercurias.1826 said:I like the mirrors as they are. The OP doesn’t speak for me, thanks. If he can’t figure out how to make Mirage work, then he can roll another class.

There would be exactly no change in "your" playstyle with an addition of a new F5 ability.

[skcamow.3527]

PvP perspective - I'm also of the opinion the existing implementation of the mirrors is far from awful, and actually fine. I don't think a new F5 is needed to make them useful. In fact, there are many ways to create a Mirage build that don't use mirrors at all, nullifying the F5 for that build. I think that's counter intuitive.

Mirrors needed some getting used to but after playing awhile, it feels natural. The only real issue I have is regarding some of our mirror generating abilities that place them in odd locations as OP stated. If those issues were resolved, they would be a in a great place.

[FaboBabo.3581]

@skcamow.3527 said:PvP perspective - I'm also of the opinion the existing implementation of the mirrors is far from awful, and actually fine. I don't think a new F5 is needed to make them useful. In fact, there are many ways to create a Mirage build that don't use mirrors at all, nullifying the F5 for that build. I think that's counter intuitive.

Mirrors needed some getting used to but after playing awhile, it feels natural. The only real issue I have is regarding some of our mirror generating abilities that place them in odd locations as OP stated. If those issues were resolved, they would be a in a great place.

"In fact, there are many ways to create a Mirage build that don't use mirrors at all, nullifying the F5 for that build. I think that's counter intuitive."This is one reason for me to give a new f5 or something BASE to create mirrors. Those builds are Base mesmer + Ambush - this cant be our elite pls...

[Levetty.1279]

@Senqu.8054 said:What if we can have a other way then every time shatter something after 5 years? Shatter this shatter that. Slowly it gets boring... yes to Mirrors shatter would be cool but its again shatter for 2 more years

We have yet to have a shatter spec for PvE.

[SlimChance.6593]

Everyone is putting too much thought into this.

Mesmer's main mechanic is SHATTERING! Just have the shatter skills (F1-F4) shatter mirrors as well. They are just a different type of illusion.

They don't count towards the three illusion limit, so they won't improve the shatter skill. They provide the own benefit when shattered.

Mirrors can be shattered by the Mesmer running thru the mirror OR by any shatter skill.

In fact, every Mesmer elite could add a new illusion type for shatters to work with. That will provide that cohesive part that is missing in mirage right now.

Thinking about this more. Mirage only got a MH weapon, so there is no phantasm. Those mirrors are suppose to be the Mirage's phantasm.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@OriOri.8724 said:I honestly just want to see mirrors pulse their damage and weakness every second until you shatter it. Then I'd be more than happy with how they are right now.

I like this idea. I'd also have them shatter like clones when a shatter skill was activated.

[Amethyst Lure.5624]

I think mirrors work best with the Axe or staff where you can manipulate yourself to their spawn point, but that can be pretty clunky. I've found i have the most use of the crystal sands mirror, because I can target cast it to where I will soon be. Maybe that's really telling how that feels the best. It's also possible the intention of the mirror utilities are for different game modes, given how they differ in their spawn circumstance.

I'm in favour of tying the mirror to shatters somehow. I think that shatters could easily be made an even more attractive thing for Mirages, since you can also very easily build for clone generation as a mesmer. If you could build deceptive evasion and have energy sigils and all that, and break even with shatter, I think that would create a cool niche for Mirage in addition to the flavour of manipulating the mirrors. Strictly PvE speak here.

[Dondagora.9645]

I'd like Mirrors to be an illusion with its own mechanics. Perhaps enemies have to pass through them to destroy them, while, giving some unique benefit to the Mirage in question. This would be something like an anti-AoE illusion, something which has a unique condition to destroy beyond simply damaging it. Would be in-line with the Mesmer theme of forcing and punishing choices by the enemy (choosing to let the Mirage benefit from Mirror, or choosing to displace oneself to destroy it), and would work with the Mirage theme (optical illusion in a desert which incentivizes travelers to head to it).

[Llethander.3972]

I don't even use skills or traits that leave Mirage Mirrors. They just don't feel rewarding to me as they generally require me to go out of my way to walk into. If we could drop Mirage Mirrors when we hit our dodge I feel it would be somewhat more useful. As it stands, there aren't enough ways to generate them and the methods we do have don't feel good.

[Deifact.3095]

I'm suprised there isn't more interesting traits for mirrors... Like why not have a projectile reflect trait? They are mirrors afterall! Or a trait/skill that will make the mirage immune to damage but destroy a mirror with each block. Just something to make it feel like the mirrors are actually a core part of the spec not just some side thought...

[Mercurias.1826]

@Akame.8736 said:

@Mercurias.1826 said:I like the mirrors as they are. The OP doesn’t speak for me, thanks. If he can’t figure out how to make Mirage work, then he can roll another class.

I assume from your choice of forum avatar that you main a Necromancer. Is it possible that you are worried that an improvement to this very lacking component of Mirage would make the Mirage more viable in PvP or WvW, and that is why you hope it will stay just how it is now?

I play in PvE when I have time. PvP and WvW tend not to be my speed. Reaper is probably my favorite class, but just behind that are Mesmer and Guardian. So...No? I just don’t think the spec needs any more invincibility, and an F5 skill like the one the OP suggested would be blatantly overpowered.

You’re very wordy in an extremely awkward way. It muddles your argument and makes you sound like you’re trying to be condescending but aren’t quite smart enough to pull it off.

@Nyel.1843 said:There would be exactly no change in "your" playstyle with an addition of a new F5 ability.

There would be, unless you think I don’t have Mirage unlocked? That sort of transformation of gameplay mechanics would change how the entire spec is played.

[zealex.9410]

@Jables.4659 said:So at the moment we have these new skills that leave behind a mirror on the ground for like 4 seconds. If you walk to and touch this mirror, it shatters giving you mirage cloak and giving weakness to nearby enemies. Take a skill like "Sand Through Glass". You evade backwards and leave behind a mirror at the initial location. So its a movement utility that then requires you to walk back to where you initially were to get the full effect? Its absolutely bonkers in design. So, how do we fix this? Its actually really simple and I have no idea why Anet didn't think about this from the start. Mirage has no f5 ability, and people were disappointed by that. So, what I suggest is that for every skill that "leaves behind a mirror", you would instead "Gain access to Mirror Shatter", a new f5 ability that does the exact same thing as touching a mirror. F5 Shatter Mirror: Shatter your mirror to gain mirage cloak and give weakness to nearby enemies. Opinions?

How would that work with having lots of mirrors around the place lets say from traited f4.

[zealex.9410]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Jables.4659 said:So at the moment we have these new skills that leave behind a mirror on the ground for like 4 seconds. If you walk to and touch this mirror, it shatters giving you mirage cloak and giving weakness to nearby enemies. Take a skill like "Sand Through Glass". You evade backwards and leave behind a mirror at the initial location. So its a movement utility that then requires you to walk back to where you initially were to get the full effect? Its absolutely bonkers in design. So, how do we fix this? Its actually really simple and I have no idea why Anet didn't think about this from the start. Mirage has no f5 ability, and people were disappointed by that. So, what I suggest is that for every skill that "leaves behind a mirror", you would instead "Gain access to Mirror Shatter", a new f5 ability that does the exact same thing as touching a mirror. F5 Shatter Mirror: Shatter your mirror to gain mirage cloak and give weakness to nearby enemies. Opinions?

How would that work with having lots of mirrors around the place lets say from traited f4.

Or if you want to play it more stategically, w8ing on those mirrors while biting your chances.

[zealex.9410]

Also stacking mirage mirror can fuck u up real good due to the cd of the ambush skills and the fact that they take over your aa while under mirage cloak

[Llethander.3972]

@zealex.9410 said:Also stacking mirage mirror can kitten u up real good due to the cd of the ambush skills and the fact that they take over your aa while under mirage cloak

Ambush skills have a cooldown? I hadn't noticed that with the Axe or the Staff. I usually dodge -> ambush -> dodge -> ambush in fights where I'm not concerned about incoming damage and don't notice an issue with both ambushes firing off. Are the other weapons not the same?

[zealex.9410]

@Llethander.3972 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Also stacking mirage mirror can kitten u up real good due to the cd of the ambush skills and the fact that they take over your aa while under mirage cloak

Ambush skills have a cooldown? I hadn't noticed that with the Axe or the Staff. I usually dodge -> ambush -> dodge -> ambush in fights where I'm not concerned about incoming damage and don't notice an issue with both ambushes firing off. Are the other weapons not the same?

Double dodge then used an ambush fast.

[zealex.9410]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Llethander.3972 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Also stacking mirage mirror can kitten u up real good due to the cd of the ambush skills and the fact that they take over your aa while under mirage cloak

Ambush skills have a cooldown? I hadn't noticed that with the Axe or the Staff. I usually dodge -> ambush -> dodge -> ambush in fights where I'm not concerned about incoming damage and don't notice an issue with both ambushes firing off. Are the other weapons not the same?

Double dodge then used an ambush fast. Or dodge ambush and puck a mirror asap u will see the skill cannot be used 2times ina row without delay.

[extremexhero.9178]

I think they should change mirage mirrors to daze and confuse on enemy touch(so the evade means something), and when you touch them you gain mirage cloak and a 4th clone that ambushes then shatters, just one attack. Also add onto diversion that all your clones and you evade into the ground and come up leaving a field of quicksand that will convert swiftnes to criple and quickness to slow.

[zealex.9410]

@extremexhero.9178 said:I think they should change mirage mirrors to daze and confuse on enemy touch(so the evade means something), and when you touch them you gain mirage cloak and a 4th clone that ambushes then shatters, just one attack. Also add onto diversion that all your clones and you evade into the ground and come up leaving a field of quicksand that will convert swiftnes to criple and quickness to slow.

Id like the idea that you get a forthclone that spawns just to ambush then dissapears. But that might be too good almost op.

[extremexhero.9178]

@zealex.9410 said:Id like the idea that you get a fourth clone that spawns just to ambush then disappears. But that might be too good almost op.You don't get mirrors that often: 3 from distortion; 1 from heal, 1 from evade, 1 from crystal sands. Assuming you take all of those that is 6 extra ambush attacks spaced out and will probably be easily avoided. It is like having mirrored axes only worse.

[zealex.9410]

@extremexhero.9178 said:

@zealex.9410 said:Id like the idea that you get a fourth clone that spawns just to ambush then disappears. But that might be too good almost op.You don't get mirrors that often: 3 from distortion; 1 from heal, 1 from evade, 1 from crystal sands. Assuming you take all of those that is 6 extra ambush attacks spaced out and will probably be easily avoided. It is like having mirrored axes only worse.

Not all ambushes are worse. This can create alot more stress to the enemy with how much pressure u can dish with stuff like traited distort. But its true u dont get mirrors that fast so it might not be ass bad. But i still think they would only be there to apply more pressure through ambushes. Having them shatter would be overkill.

[extremexhero.9178]

No more OP than necro, necro drops aoes: don't step on them; mirage drops mirrors: avoid them until they are gone.

[zealex.9410]

@extremexhero.9178 said:No more OP than necro, necro drops aoes: don't step on them; mirage drops mirrors: avoid them until they are gone.

Necro is bugged and his aoes dont shoot u from afar ir come after u with a leap daze. Or load u with vuln from afar. Clones spowning and doing ambush from the mirrors can do all that.