If you want to gain/keep PvP players, stop absolutely demolishing builds every patch

[Axl.8924]

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

[hotte in space.2158]

@Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:This is the best GW2 PvP experience in years.Agree with this. Would even say its the best PvP experiance ever.Certain specs (condi thief, rev, symbol brand, ranger) sill have to be touched though, but talking bout small adjustments and not hard nerfs here.

[Psybehr.2518]

@Axl.8924 said:You guys asked for nerfs and classes get gutted, so you guys are to blame, so its too late to feel regret, besides: I bet most of you are not happy and want more nerfs.

You guys have been warned that nerfing classes the wrong way won't fix the problem so yeah. keep on doing what you doing no point trying to stop you because you made a choice.

Whoa buddy don’t lump me into that group. I’m always a fan of 1-shot power metas.I didn’t ask for a single change or nerf during it.

[storm.3120]

@Drennon.7190What builds are you talking about?Do you mean the recent ranger nerfs ? Ngl that would be hilarious

[Khalisto.5780]

game has been this way

you could use your op build for 6 month

at some pnt you'd get tired of losing with whichever you're playing and use the OP builds as well

i think that's one of the main reasons ppl left pvp

[otto.5684]

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the amount of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

[TheAlphaRaider.6785]

I guess you dont understand game balancing. They nerf builds into the ground because too many people are playing a role because its easy to learn -- not necessarily the most powerful. Good for you for playing pvp but actually look at your skills and specs... thats what they want people to do. Metabattle consolidates people into a "choose your fighter" build. Especially with builds that let you spam 1-2 skills and still be effective. These sites are good for learners but create a crutch. The game is an mmo and not street fighter.

[Sereath.1428]

ANET has never had a backbone. Came back for my free cape then remembered why I left.

[Axl.8924]

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the number of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game-breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, a large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

Boon corrupt is a counter to boon spam. If it's not doing its job then it's not up to task and boon spam is also bad for the game because if you can instantly stack a ton of boons such as 25 might protection+quickness+swiftness, it becomes game-breaking and unbalanced.

boon corrupt necro counters that, and makes classes that spam boons get punished. Core nec doesn't have as much potential to be as busted as scourge, because it doesn't have tons of aoe boon corrupt bombs. There are a couple but not nearly as many, and the aoe wells have CDS, so its definitely not spammable(30 secs or something? maybe more? I forget I'm too lazy to look it up.) Remember after nec got nerfed and Boonspam was being complained about because everyone and their mother had it? yeah well, that's the cause and effect. Also Boon corrupt is part of how necros can get condis too, and necros generally have very very weak condi spam compared to other classes, and part of why they can get high numbers is because of boon corrupt.

So my stance stays. Nerf boons not boon corrupt, so classes like guardian and revenant don't make themselves god mode since thats what they are best at, along with holosmith who also is a master of boon stacking.

If you can stack 25 might ferocity and other boons you become insanely op.

[DMO.4158]

I wouldn't hold much hope. I come back every couple years and just roll my eyes at the lack of progress in PvP. And yet they've taken the time to shoehorn raiding into the game and spend untold resources on fully voiced single player stories that are 1 and done.

8 years in and still;

• 3 node snowball matches with zero counterplay opportunities built into the maps. All the map gimmicks benefit the winning team with map control, further compounding the snowball.
• no other new game modes in 8 years? Other than "moba-lite"? A lot of balancing woes are directly related to this single game mode. Change it up.
• an over reliance on a goofy buff/debuff system that uses insanely short timers and and all happens way too fast for any kind of skilled counterplay. You cant parse where a certain form of burning came from, it all stacks and refreshes. If you think its a chaotic mess as a player to parse 100 flasing tiny icons, imagine what it's like to watch on twitch.....yikes.
• an over reliance on passive abilities, traits and procs. Half of our kits just happen in the background via RNG etc. Low skill ceiling, less player interaction etc.
• an over reliance on instant cast abilities with no readable animations or telegraphing to promote counter play and skillshots rather than particle spam.
• an over reliance on stats via amulets/sigils despite being promoted as a normalized, gear-less, competitive environment.
• ttk feels wildly different from class to class. While it may be "balanced" on paper or in relation to conquest specifically, it doesn't "feel" right to a new player. Especially after 80 levels of being taught a completely different combat pace. There are too many "I used all buttons on my toolbar and they still have full hp, now what?" Moments. Very frustrating not to have the expected result from pressing the buttons the game taught you.
• matchmaking is still poorly structured. Still can't believe this hasn't been fixed all these years. Regardless of ranked or unranked, there absolutely needs to be a split between solo and premades. I havnt had a chance to try tournaments yet but they seem like a cesspool of premade snowballs. This one point alone, regardless of the underlying game, is a major deterrent for most people. I've heard the arguments before in every other game about population sizes and que times. It never pans out. It's better to have 1 fair match per day than 10 snowballs. Getting farmed by more experienced players while trying to learn is a guaranteed population loss for everyone in the longrun.
• no way for the losing team to concede. Still? When your matchmaker goes wild and I'm getting farmed and down 200+. Just end the game. Give me my "lootbox of how many icons does this game need?" And re-que me.

Instead of the bizarre paper rock scissors style combat, they should have focused more on direct damage skill shots. Everyone should be going toe-to-toe instead of the musical chairs +1 nonsense. It's more about micromanaging passive buffs/debuffs and outnumbering than it is any kind of PvP. A skilled player should ideally be able to 1 vs 3 if need be. Right now it's just a numbers game built into the player consciousness. It's too predictable. If it's 4 vs 2 it's over. You're done. You're team knows it before it even happens and they've already thrown.At the very least......a new game mode could change that up.

[otto.5684]

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the number of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game-breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, a large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

Boon corrupt is a counter to boon spam. If it's not doing its job then it's not up to task and boon spam is also bad for the game because if you can instantly stack a ton of boons such as 25 might protection+quickness+swiftness, it becomes game-breaking and unbalanced.

boon corrupt necro counters that, and makes classes that spam boons get punished. Core nec doesn't have as much potential to be as busted as scourge, because it doesn't have tons of aoe boon corrupt bombs. There are a couple but not nearly as many, and the aoe wells have CDS, so its definitely not spammable(30 secs or something? maybe more? I forget I'm too lazy to look it up.) Remember after nec got nerfed and Boonspam was being complained about because everyone and their mother had it? yeah well, that's the cause and effect. Also Boon corrupt is part of how necros can get condis too, and necros generally have very very weak condi spam compared to other classes, and part of why they can get high numbers is because of boon corrupt.

So my stance stays. Nerf boons not boon corrupt, so classes like guardian and revenant don't make themselves god mode since thats what they are best at, along with holosmith who also is a master of boon stacking.

If you can stack 25 might ferocity and other boons you become insanely op.

Yes, boon rip counters boon spam. But not counter boons. There is a huge difference. You can prevent opponents from stacking 25 boons of might, but not keep them constantly with zero might and weakness.

[Axl.8924]

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the number of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game-breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, a large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

Boon corrupt is a counter to boon spam. If it's not doing its job then it's not up to task and boon spam is also bad for the game because if you can instantly stack a ton of boons such as 25 might protection+quickness+swiftness, it becomes game-breaking and unbalanced.

boon corrupt necro counters that, and makes classes that spam boons get punished. Core nec doesn't have as much potential to be as busted as scourge, because it doesn't have tons of aoe boon corrupt bombs. There are a couple but not nearly as many, and the aoe wells have CDS, so its definitely not spammable(30 secs or something? maybe more? I forget I'm too lazy to look it up.) Remember after nec got nerfed and Boonspam was being complained about because everyone and their mother had it? yeah well, that's the cause and effect. Also Boon corrupt is part of how necros can get condis too, and necros generally have very very weak condi spam compared to other classes, and part of why they can get high numbers is because of boon corrupt.

So my stance stays. Nerf boons not boon corrupt, so classes like guardian and revenant don't make themselves god mode since thats what they are best at, along with holosmith who also is a master of boon stacking.

If you can stack 25 might ferocity and other boons you become insanely op.

Yes, boon rip counters boon spam. But not counter boons. There is a huge difference. You can prevent opponents from stacking 25 boons of might, but not keep them constantly with zero might and weakness.

Why should boon corrupt not also counter boon spam? its a paradox. Boon corrupt has to counter boons because its one way to disrupt boonspams.

If you make boon corrupt not counter boons, you disrupt pve and SPVP and you make necros useless for WVW and harm them severely for SPVP. It even counters boons in fractals by helping curb boons by turning them into conditions. I still stand by that boon corrupt shouldn't be touched by principal since it was already nerfed and its far less effective now, unless your whole goal is to kill necros in WVW.

[otto.5684]

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the number of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game-breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, a large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

Boon corrupt is a counter to boon spam. If it's not doing its job then it's not up to task and boon spam is also bad for the game because if you can instantly stack a ton of boons such as 25 might protection+quickness+swiftness, it becomes game-breaking and unbalanced.

boon corrupt necro counters that, and makes classes that spam boons get punished. Core nec doesn't have as much potential to be as busted as scourge, because it doesn't have tons of aoe boon corrupt bombs. There are a couple but not nearly as many, and the aoe wells have CDS, so its definitely not spammable(30 secs or something? maybe more? I forget I'm too lazy to look it up.) Remember after nec got nerfed and Boonspam was being complained about because everyone and their mother had it? yeah well, that's the cause and effect. Also Boon corrupt is part of how necros can get condis too, and necros generally have very very weak condi spam compared to other classes, and part of why they can get high numbers is because of boon corrupt.

So my stance stays. Nerf boons not boon corrupt, so classes like guardian and revenant don't make themselves god mode since thats what they are best at, along with holosmith who also is a master of boon stacking.

If you can stack 25 might ferocity and other boons you become insanely op.

Yes, boon rip counters boon spam. But not counter boons. There is a huge difference. You can prevent opponents from stacking 25 boons of might, but not keep them constantly with zero might and weakness.

Why should boon corrupt not also counter boon spam? its a paradox. Boon corrupt has to counter boons because its one way to disrupt boonspams.

If you make boon corrupt not counter boons, you disrupt pve and SPVP and you make necros useless for WVW and harm them severely for SPVP. It even counters boons in fractals by helping curb boons by turning them into conditions. I still stand by that boon corrupt shouldn't be touched by principal since it was already nerfed and its far less effective now, unless your whole goal is to kill necros in WVW.

I think I already explained it in the might example I gave. Not sure what is not clear here. You can remove boons but u cannot render enemy with zero boons the entire fight. And most definitely not in aoe.

[Axl.8924]

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@otto.5684 said:

@"Jimarius.2843" said:I dunno I get the feeling this company is just whale farming in PvE now. Pvp is pretty dead and "gutted" is an appropriate description. The people calling the shots now don't seem to care or mind that it takes way more effort to fix something after you intentionally break it, rather than just putting the work in to optimize it in the first place. Anet laid off like 100 ppl back in 2019 so I gotta wonder if the game is running with a skeleton crew of devs mostly focused on PvE.

I mean look at the changes, 5-minute cooldowns on certain talents, CC's doing basically zero dmg, Straight damage gutted across the board but healing (WvW thing) and Condition dmg completely out of control. Most games are burn guardians and necros. It all feels really stale at this point. If the devs had any courage they'd roll back every nerf for the last 3 years and let us, the players, sort out a new meta. That's right keep every buff made so far, remove every nerf we don't need the hand-holding.

You have to nerf things otherwise, in few month you will have classes doing an order of magnitude more, healing, more damage and more [whatever you like]. And in few years, 100x or 200x. Nerfs are the right course of action in many cases. However, when every balance issue is going to be addressed with a nerf or removal, the game loses all its substance. Which is where we are today in sPvP.

Not necessarily i disagree.

For instance, sometimes classes don't need to nerf.

Is anyone asking for warrior to be nerfed? haven't seen a single thread.

Lastly, Balance is an illusion as classes will have differences in uses. You cannot nerf mesmers ability to dodge until he has none and his invulns, because he is a squishy class.You also cannot go around listening to just everyone who asks for nerfs, because clearly a lot of people have biases and want to win.

I think what thornwolf said about balance being subjective is true.

To thornwolf: Personally boon corrupt already got nerfed and is way less effective in SPVP, but boons hadn't gotten nerfed that hard, in fact: Last time i played, i could not keep up with classes like engineer guardian and some others with boon corrupt, so if boon corrupt were an issue, its likely the boon generations itself.

Don't gut necro more pls, since its already bad enough not being able to keep up on boon corrupt due to how fast guardians and engineers cleanse.

As we stand today, almost all classes and all power weapons need a buff. And not a small one. Keeping with warrior, axe OH, dagger OH (to an extent MH too), hammer, mace, GS skill 2, bow, rifle and sword MH & OH need their damage buffed. With axe OH and dagger MH should see their coefficients close to 1, since damage is all they do.

As for boon corrupt, it is supposed to be a supporting tool, not alt+ctr+del for every boon enemy has. Boons are integral part of builds and classes. If you can remove them at a fast pace it renders 90% of builds useless. And some builds have and rely on having multiple boons to even remotely function. You can soften the number of boons, not instantly and continuously remove them. There is a reason why scourge was game-breaking early in PoF. And for boons, stacking reg or fury is not a problem. Quickness, high stability uptime, a large amount of high stacks of might and high protection uptime are the problem. And these are almost non-existent now.

Boon corrupt is a counter to boon spam. If it's not doing its job then it's not up to task and boon spam is also bad for the game because if you can instantly stack a ton of boons such as 25 might protection+quickness+swiftness, it becomes game-breaking and unbalanced.

boon corrupt necro counters that, and makes classes that spam boons get punished. Core nec doesn't have as much potential to be as busted as scourge, because it doesn't have tons of aoe boon corrupt bombs. There are a couple but not nearly as many, and the aoe wells have CDS, so its definitely not spammable(30 secs or something? maybe more? I forget I'm too lazy to look it up.) Remember after nec got nerfed and Boonspam was being complained about because everyone and their mother had it? yeah well, that's the cause and effect. Also Boon corrupt is part of how necros can get condis too, and necros generally have very very weak condi spam compared to other classes, and part of why they can get high numbers is because of boon corrupt.

So my stance stays. Nerf boons not boon corrupt, so classes like guardian and revenant don't make themselves god mode since thats what they are best at, along with holosmith who also is a master of boon stacking.

If you can stack 25 might ferocity and other boons you become insanely op.

Yes, boon rip counters boon spam. But not counter boons. There is a huge difference. You can prevent opponents from stacking 25 boons of might, but not keep them constantly with zero might and weakness.

Why should boon corrupt not also counter boon spam? its a paradox. Boon corrupt has to counter boons because its one way to disrupt boonspams.

If you make boon corrupt not counter boons, you disrupt pve and SPVP and you make necros useless for WVW and harm them severely for SPVP. It even counters boons in fractals by helping curb boons by turning them into conditions. I still stand by that boon corrupt shouldn't be touched by principal since it was already nerfed and its far less effective now, unless your whole goal is to kill necros in WVW.

I think I already explained it in the might example I gave. Not sure what is not clear here. You can remove boons but u cannot render enemy with zero boons the entire fight. And most definitely not in aoe.

What you are describing is a scourge issue not core issue certainly not reaper, and scourge already got nerfed quite a lot.

If boon corrupt gets removed, then necro is going to need condition buffs for pve SPVP and WVW as this would possibly kill necromancers.

[calidor.2053]

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the new update as such few minor tweaks maybe?

i've played Rev from the get go purley because i like the idea of swapping legends etc. Yes it's been powered up on condi ,is a bit more tanky. ( what it needed more than anything else ) I wouldn't say nerfed as such , if you can deal with the torment and can lock a revs movement, that and force a rev to use energy. Now don't forget some skills have a high consumption I mean - Chaotic release 30 energy ,burst of strength - 12 then 5 for each mace attack 10 for each axe Attack. Remember you only start with 50 and it doesnt stay above the threshold for long when you gain the boost it depletes real quick ( or i must just be Kitten). Was the same when tempest and weaver started being used all classes have a stint where they are OP as long as you know your rotations anything is possible.

PVP is a Team game, so often i see no plan in team chat and then when a more organised team adapts it shows, some you lose some you don't i'll still play rev even if the condi and dps drops.

although in my opinion a

Rev is more a support class such as mesmer and ranger jump in quick burst then out

Warrior ,Ele , Necro front line classes guardian ( just purley to keep ya party healed etc

eng and thief etc caps

this is why they have that 1-2 mins of test play pre match so you can formulate a plan .

no matter what the Devs do they still be in the wrong . i'm more concerned about the match fixing, Idle players, point feeders and the map bugs ( although did laugh when i was pushed back by a downed player and stuck halfway in a wall with a backwards super man pose on mid in the Temple small things hey lol

all i'm saying is that we all benefit we all lose at some point no matter what the devs put in place as long as you work together you can have an enjoyable experience

Coding is exceptionally hard the amount of time that goes into writing one script etc is very laborious to say the least better them than me

look forward to next update see what challenge the devs set us next :)

[Remilia Scarlet.3205]

So next time just delete mesmer class in pvp before make some demolishing adjustment to make ppl less irritated.

[avey.4201]

I worked hard to learn my build, and fought matches sportingly.I play berserk dragon hunter(meme hunter), Dragons maw damage was block-able/dodge-able, and could only 1 shot the glassiest thief, and got removed.Ranger? 1 shot(rapid fire or barrage will kill you with 1 single skill), thieves? 1 shot, mesmer? 1 shot, engi? stability/stunlock/cc/high dps/high sustain, burn guard? high dps.I could uninstall, and install a program intended to be a 5 minute timer, but that would take more effort than appears to go into the current balance.I join sPvP for the 5 minute egg timer.People can report me all they want, they are jealous I have the best sustain build in the game (stay in spawn).

[ZeteCommander.4937]

@Remilia Scarlet.3205 said:So next time just delete mesmer class in pvp before make some demolishing adjustment to make ppl less irritated.

They're already doing this. Like the 3-5 minute cooldown talent

[Kulvar.1239]

For the laugh : There's an other topic where someone claim that kittening builds every patch is healthy and would make sPvP better off.

[Luthan.5236]

I think they should aim to reach a "final" balancing. Will change though if they add more elite specs with next expansion. At some poin the game should reach a final state though.

Also the rating restet needs to be removed. People work hard to gain their rating. Not a good idea to mix it towards 1200 and making the first few matches feel random and badly balanced cause everyone is at a wrong rating. Might be another reason why people don't like PvP too much.

I mean the personal skill does not just jump towards 1200 (for highly skilled players it is a huge jump I guess) suddenly just because of some balancing patch or new season.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Axl.8924 common misconception, Boon corrupt is BAD against boon spam.if you get to corrupt 3 boons, and enemy holo has 15 might, fury, swiftness, protection,vigor,regeneration and retaliation. there are good chances that you steal shit boons like regen/swiftness and have low impact.on the other hand when you fight class that lacks boon spam and only has specific boons that it NEEDS, like warrior with might,fury and swiftness and thats it, THEN corrupt absolutely wrecks them.

[Axl.8924]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 common misconception, Boon corrupt is BAD against boon spam.if you get to corrupt 3 boons, and enemy holo has 15 might, fury, swiftness, protection,vigor,regeneration and retaliation. there are good chances that you steal kitten boons like regen/swiftness and have low impact.on the other hand when you fight class that lacks boon spam and only has specific boons that it NEEDS, like warrior with might,fury and swiftness and thats it, THEN corrupt absolutely wrecks them.

That makes zero sense because boon corrupt was supposed to be one of the answers of a solution to boon spam.

if boon corrupt doesn't get touched and boon spam does, then you end up with less a boon corrupt problem, so nerf boons not boon corrupt. This sounds more like whining to nerf necros as much as possible to delete them because WAA I hate dealing with their aoes WAAA consume conditions can lead to fear by corrupting stab.

Boon corrupt isn't a issue.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 common misconception, Boon corrupt is BAD against boon spam.if you get to corrupt 3 boons, and enemy holo has 15 might, fury, swiftness, protection,vigor,regeneration and retaliation. there are good chances that you steal kitten boons like regen/swiftness and have low impact.on the other hand when you fight class that lacks boon spam and only has specific boons that it NEEDS, like warrior with might,fury and swiftness and thats it, THEN corrupt absolutely wrecks them.

That makes zero sense because boon corrupt was supposed to be one of the answers of a solution to boon spam.

if boon corrupt doesn't get touched and boon spam does, then you end up with less a boon corrupt problem, so nerf boons not boon corrupt. This sounds more like whining to nerf necros as much as possible to delete them because WAA I hate dealing with their aoes WAAA consume conditions can lead to fear by corrupting stab.

Boon corrupt isn't a issue.

dynamite was made for mining yet it was used for different reasons.Its not a nerf necro post, just a simple truth, if I have 3 boons that I NEED to have, having them removed hurts me more then if im shitting 10 different ones and I lose 3 of them, just simple fact.For all I care they can make boon corrupt additional boons if enemy has more then X boons, THEN it will actually counter boon.example, corrupt 2 boons, if enemy has 5 or more corrupt 3 instead.

[Khalisto.5780]

not destroying builds were their approach for a long time and prolly one of the main reasons the population is so low

not too long ago you could play your broken build for at least 6 month, and you still had high chances they nerf random stuff and your build was still broken for more 6 month

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Khalisto.5780 said:not destroying builds were their approach for a long time and prolly one of the main reasons the population is so low

not too long ago you could play your broken build for at least 6 month, and you still had high chances they nerf random stuff and your build was still broken for more 6 month

Although true that's also wrong. They would indeed balance classes q's about in ways that left players scratching their heads it's also this approach that led to dead or overly nerfed specs as by the time they finished nerfing around the actual issue what was left was a class with far less viability and build diversity. How many months has it been since passive were given 5 min CD's? The devs of this game are not able to balance and change broken skill designs in anywhere close to a acceptable lv or time frame and usually it's the fastest laziest route that is taken by them because of reasons above, one of the reasons a lot of pvp players said f it and moved on to different games.