Open World Domination: Fire Weaver

[Kozumi.5816]

On 3/24/2022 at 6:17 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I know I have like a million videos of this fight, but it's a good test case for a high-damage champion that doesn't necessarily require indefinite sustain.  Case in point, here's glass (grieving) weaver going solo against the avatar of Balthazar HP in Auric Basin.  Note the almost 19k health possible with the new Jade Bot mastery, Balthazar runes, and Master's Fortitude.  No more downstate meme, boys!

I do want to note that I still don't recommend this setup.  You don't really gain anything by it since you can still play much more aggressively with Trailblazer or Celestial stats and make up for the difference in damage output.

What DPS do you get solo on a golem with this?

[AliamRationem.5172]

50 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

What DPS do you get solo on a golem with this?

I don't normally practice on a golem, but as it happens I was trying to help another player yesterday and it was relevant.  I'm not a master of rotations like Roul, so I'm sure you could get higher numbers than I'm seeing, but I was seeing around 35k DPS on the grieving setup against the weak golem, 30k on Trailblazer, and I think it was 23k on Celestial?  That's with full buffs, of course, and due to the shorter fight time the numbers in longer fights would be lower.  But I don't raid and rarely do strikes or even fractals much, so I was testing on the weak golem.

[Kozumi.5816]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I don't normally practice on a golem, but as it happens I was trying to help another player yesterday and it was relevant.  I'm not a master of rotations like Roul, so I'm sure you could get higher numbers than I'm seeing, but I was seeing around 35k DPS on the grieving setup against the weak golem, 30k on Trailblazer, and I think it was 23k on Celestial?  That's with full buffs, of course, and due to the shorter fight time the numbers in longer fights would be lower.  But I don't raid and rarely do strikes or even fractals much, so I was testing on the weak golem.

I meant self buffs only.

[AliamRationem.5172]

29 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

I meant self buffs only.

Oh.  Sorry, I don't recall except the celestial build was around 13k.  Trailblazer and grieving would have been higher, obviously.  I have plenty of videos that give a pretty good idea of the damage on celestial and trailblazer, though.  Pressure generally isn't significant against these builds so it might as well be golem DPS.  Here's Balthazar solo on Trailblazer fire/earth build at 18k DPS.

Edited March 29, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[AliamRationem.5172]

I haven't heard much talk about this recent change allowing jade tech protocols to remain outside of Cantha maps, but it's a pretty big buff if you don't mind spending a few minutes to grab it.  I shaved 25% off my Balthazar solo time by utilizing it!

I'm not sure how I feel about this change.  I mean, it's fun to leap into every fight with boons to the max, but at the same time it sorta trivializes all these traits and other skills we normally employ to gain boons and if we're being honest its some pretty massive power creep, albeit only applicable in open world.

[AliamRationem.5172]

Here's another clip using the jade tech protocols.  Peak burn + bleed was over 40k here!  Nice!

 

[Lobsters.3869]

I'm doing d/d weaver with berzerker.  Been through all the story quests like that and its hard sometimes when monsters kill u in 2 hits, so u gotta be smart and fast and even then sometimes u will just die.

 

I did fire/arcane/weaver and took fire for damage and arcane/weaver for barriers/survival.

Hit the medium 4m hp golem for 5k dps.

Switched to fire/air/weaver and took nothing but damage increases, which in open world or anything would mean I'm just basically dead if I get hit twice by some random monster.

Hit the medium 4m hp golem for 7k dps.

 

But you cannot change the damage output of a power elementalist without creating a 1-2 shot elementalist which will down anyone with light armor in wvw/pvp.  

So there you have it.  Weak by default because theres no way to fix it.

 

You will get rare instances where you pop arcane power and burning speed into a group of enemies for 9k and firegrab for 9k.  But firegrab works about 60% of the time so ... 9 years they couldn't fix the targeting issue with it.  

Thought I'd chime in on elementalist issues.  Have fun.

[AliamRationem.5172]

26 minutes ago, Lobsters.3869 said:

I'm doing d/d weaver with berzerker.  Been through all the story quests like that and its hard sometimes when monsters kill u in 2 hits, so u gotta be smart and fast and even then sometimes u will just die.

 

I did fire/arcane/weaver and took fire for damage and arcane/weaver for barriers/survival.

Hit the medium 4m hp golem for 5k dps.

Switched to fire/air/weaver and took nothing but damage increases, which in open world or anything would mean I'm just basically dead if I get hit twice by some random monster.

Hit the medium 4m hp golem for 7k dps.

 

But you cannot change the damage output of a power elementalist without creating a 1-2 shot elementalist which will down anyone with light armor in wvw/pvp.  

So there you have it.  Weak by default because theres no way to fix it.

 

You will get rare instances where you pop arcane power and burning speed into a group of enemies for 9k and firegrab for 9k.  But firegrab works about 60% of the time so ... 9 years they couldn't fix the targeting issue with it.  

Thought I'd chime in on elementalist issues.  Have fun.

You picked an interesting place to air your grievances.  This thread is about open world.  Personally, I think condi works better for weaver there.

Here's a recent video I did of a 50s Balthazar solo using glass stats (grieving).  Using jade tech I cut that down to 30s, too, and sustain was a non issue.

 If you're only getting 7k dps on a golem taking no defensive traits or stats I feel like something must be wrong with your build or strategy.  But I play a specific build as you can see, so I can only guess at the issue you're having. 

I haven't done much pvp or wvw in a long time,  but here's a 1v1 against a top player (#1 rank at the time) using glass stats (grieving again).  I prefer celestial for roaming, but it's not like you die in "1-2" hits if you defend yourself properly. 

Edit: Oops! Messed up the link.  Darn phones. I think this works?

Edited April 22, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[SeTect.5918]

16 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You picked an interesting place to air your grievances.  This thread is about open world.  Personally, I think condi works better for weaver there.

Here's a recent video I did of a 50s Balthazar solo using glass stats (grieving).  Using jade tech I cut that down to 30s, too, and sustain was a non issue.

 If you're only getting 7k dps on a golem taking no defensive traits or stats I feel like something must be wrong with your build or strategy.  But I play a specific build as you can see, so I can only guess at the issue you're having. 

I haven't done much pvp or wvw in a long time,  but here's a 1v1 against a top player (#1 rank at the time) using glass stats (grieving again).  I prefer celestial for roaming, but it's not like you die in "1-2" hits if you defend yourself properly.

I fully agree that you should deal more than 7k dps on a golem, but
@Lobsters.3869point was about power builds.
In Open world power builds deal lower damage than condi.
So i m pretty sure U wouldnt have been able to solo this with full power build because the fight would take far longer.
(with jade stuff most likely yes, but without not)

Also the damage reduction from "Weave Self" is not there on power builds because its just a bad skill on power builds.
And yes I also dont think you die in 1-2 hits on power builds.
However Condition builds have it faaaaaaaaaar easier in open world.
Especially on Weaver due to Earth traitline and Weave self and stuff like that, but also due to the access to trailblazers.

By the way:
Something I noticed on your build:
You end up having 98.67% condi duration.
Why not put 1x shoulders, gloves or shoes on vipers stats?
Would give 100% duration and be most likely a small dps increase. 😄

However as I said, I fully agree that it should be more than 7k dps.

Edited April 22, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[AliamRationem.5172]

24 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I fully agree that you should deal more than 7k dps on a golem, but
@Lobsters.3869point was about power builds.
In Open world power builds deal lower damage than condi.
So i m pretty sure U wouldnt have been able to solo this with full power build because the fight would take far longer.
(with jade stuff most likely yes, but without not)

Also the damage reduction from "Weave Self" is not there on power builds because its just a bad skill on power builds.
And yes I also dont think you die in 1-2 hits on power builds.
However Condition builds have it faaaaaaaaaar easier in open world.
Especially on Weaver due to Earth traitline and Weave self and stuff like that, but also due to the access to trailblazers.

By the way:
Something I noticed on your build:
You end up having 98.67% condi duration.
Why not put 1x shoulders, gloves or shoes on vipers stats?
Would give 100% duration and be most likely a small dps increase. 😄

However as I said, I fully agree that it should be more than 7k dps.

Probably just an oversight.  I don't typically bother with grieving stats for open world.  Trailblazer with undead rune gains so much condi damage from 17% conversion of toughness to condi its hard to get any appreciable gains with power stats in solo play.

I also acknowledge what you say about power builds, but I think it's certainly possible to sustain fairly well with power.  What utilities would you run with a power build?  Is there room for stone resonance?  With the evades on sword and dagger it shouldn't be too difficult.  You just don't deal as much damage as condi in solo play. 

[SeTect.5918]

40 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Probably just an oversight.  I don't typically bother with grieving stats for open world. 

Ah okay.

40 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Trailblazer with undead rune gains so much condi damage from 17% conversion of toughness to condi its hard to get any appreciable gains with power stats in solo play.

Yea its really strong. I even ran this in fractals sometimes xD
I was able to go 38k+ dps (pre exposed nerf). Now I dont play it anymore. However its really strong yes and maybe the best sustain-dps build that Elementalist has in PvE.
 

42 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I also acknowledge what you say about power builds, but I think it's certainly possible to sustain fairly well with power.  What utilities would you run with a power build?  Is there room for stone resonance?  With the evades on sword and dagger it shouldn't be too difficult.  You just don't deal as much damage as condi in solo play. 

I fully agree.
I just mean that condi has it far easier, I dont mean that Power cant have good sustain too. It can.
I even made a Power Catalyst build that was pretty decent in open world.
Tho Celestial and Trailblazers is really far easier with more dps too.

Currently running celestial Catalyst tho.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAIlZwuYuMNGJeMX7xfA-zxIY1ogvMCsASPBcYA-e
Thats my build.

[Oathkeeper.1453]

hello im a total noob in pve and someone suggested me this thread.

i just want to solo bosses and do open world content and have fun, should i go with celestial, trailblazer or viper for my weaver? 

[SeTect.5918]

41 minutes ago, Oathkeeper.1453 said:

hello im a total noob in pve and someone suggested me this thread.

i just want to solo bosses and do open world content and have fun, should i go with celestial, trailblazer or viper for my weaver? 

Trailblazers or Celestial.

Here a good Traiblazers Weaver build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwuYPMJmJOKPnvaA-zRRYcBBSGNcfjRiEoTBofA-e
You can also go for "Signet of Earth" instead of "Signet of Fire" if you want.

I m not so familar with Celestial Weaver but,
this should be a good Celestial Weaver build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwuYPMJmJeOX7vaA-zRRYVRD5/boAhRXBEmAODA-e

Personally I like trailblazers more on Weaver because its very fast in killing stuff.

Edited April 22, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Oathkeeper.1453]

24 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Trailblazers or Celestial.

Here a good Traiblazers Weaver build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwuYPMJmJOKPnvaA-zRRYcBBSGNcfjRiEoTBofA-e
You can also go for "Signet of Earth" instead of "Signet of Fire" if you want.

I m not so familar with Celestial Weaver but,
this should be a good Celestial Weaver build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwuYPMJmJeOX7vaA-zRRYVRD5/boAhRXBEmAODA-e

Personally I like trailblazers more on Weaver because its very fast in killing stuff.

 

ty very much! im gonna go with trailblazer for now

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Oathkeeper.1453 said:

hello im a total noob in pve and someone suggested me this thread.

i just want to solo bosses and do open world content and have fun, should i go with celestial, trailblazer or viper for my weaver? 

You really can't go wrong with celestial or trailblazer.  I like fire/arcane or fire/earth.  Trailblazer is better damage and passive sustain while celestial has a bit less damage but better overall sustain through healing, boons, and barrier.  Most of the videos on my channel have build links. 

[Oathkeeper.1453]

5 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

You really can't go wrong with celestial or trailblazer.  I like fire/arcane or fire/earth.  Trailblazer is better damage and passive sustain while celestial has a bit less damage but better overall sustain through healing, boons, and barrier.  Most of the videos on my channel have build links. 

Will it be possible to have all my accessories celestial and armor/weapons trailblazer? i think i prefer a little sustain 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Oathkeeper.1453

[AliamRationem.5172]

18 minutes ago, Oathkeeper.1453 said:

Will it be possible to have all my accessories celestial and armor/weapons trailblazer? i think i prefer a little sustain 

I don't find the build is all that sensitive, honestly.  Both have great sustain.  So mixing and matching anything with condition damage on it should work just fine. 

[Stx.4857]

Impressive videos and kill times as always.  

 

I'll never understand how you can get 10k bleed ticks and sustained 15k to 20k burning ticks while solo, which I have never seen any class come close to, but Elementalist is considered poor / mediocre for group play?  Like how is that possible lol, in groups you should have all buffs so those numbers should be easy to maintain.  Is it just a matter of weaver specifically not losing much when going solo?

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Impressive videos and kill times as always.  

 

I'll never understand how you can get 10k bleed ticks and sustained 15k to 20k burning ticks while solo, which I have never seen any class come close to, but Elementalist is considered poor / mediocre for group play?  Like how is that possible lol, in groups you should have all buffs so those numbers should be easy to maintain.  Is it just a matter of weaver specifically not losing much when going solo?

Part of the reason is Weave self, which is a very powerful buff...for 30 seconds...if you do it right.   After that, damage drops off a bit.  Primordial stance being an ammo skill also helps to front load damage in shorter fights.

In the context of maximum performance in group play all variants of weaver are middling on damage.  But the difference between top and middle is only 5-10%.  That's benchmarks, though.   

When you take into account other factors like sensitivity to boon uptime, target movement, and overall complexity and inflexibility of the rotation in actual gameplay the difference tends to be larger in practice.  Many also feel weaver is pretty flimsy defensively (in a full dps spec).

This on a spec that can only dps and a class that has no meta support option.  And you start to understand why it's bottom of the barrel in class representation for group play.

In solo play I think it has great damage and sustain.  The main issues are lack of range weapon swap (conjures should cover this but don't because they're terrible) and healing in water attunement for sustain calculation is not compensated for in personal DPS (i.e. you heal yourself and your damage tanks).

[Lobsters.3869]

Personally build my d/d berserker weaver on the understanding that within 5 seconds ive dropped all my damage and either 1) im dead or 2) ive blown my escape cooldowns and need to run away.

 

Sometimes before I initiate combat I'm already dead.  I've had 2 harpies both crit me and set off my arcane shield IE without it I would have been dead.

 

There are some instances, like when I'm about to solo a group or 4-5+ npcs where I'm always having to switch into my weapon evades which only last 1/2 a second and move that into a weaver evade while dodging like crazy.  Its insane the amount of effort I have to put into doing things.

 

I did a minstrel sword/dagger weaver with earth/water and max for healing.  My limit was 8 monsters I could solo without too much trouble.  The problem is the damage is just so low the fight takes forever.  

 

I can't do any of this stuff with a staff.  Staff is just horrible.

[AliamRationem.5172]

A bit more playing around with the new unleashed jade tech protocols.  Does anyone smell fungus burning?

Edit:  Uploaded the wrong video!  The template I had activated didn't match the build I linked.  Here's the video that matches the Trailblazer build:

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by AliamRationem.5172

[AliamRationem.5172]

A little more love for the celestial arcane build here.  It can't match the damage output or passive tankiness of the trailblazer earth build, but I just love the focus on evasion with this setup.  It's a ton of fun to play and it still performs more than adequately for open world/story content!

[AliamRationem.5172]

Just wanted to share a new best time for the Balthazar solo (without jade tech protocols): 35 seconds!

This is using fire/earth with Trailblazer stats and Undead rune (full build link in video comments).

[soulknight.9620]

8 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Just wanted to share a new best time for the Balthazar solo (without jade tech protocols): 35 seconds!

This is using fire/earth with Trailblazer stats and Undead rune (full build link in video comments).

But why Woven stride though? 

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

But why Woven stride though? 

Oh, weird.  I must have clicked the wrong skill.  Obviously, that should have been Elements of Rage.  Updated the build link.  Thanks!