Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

Leonidrex.5649 · June 9, 2020

@"Arheundel.6451" said:LR was so strong that only 3-4 eles were sitting top 250 and they were all tournament players.. nobody was using LR outside PvP in WvW for example given its lack of sustain and skill requirement...by comparison we had builds like Mantra of Distraction with immobilize before nerfs....easy spammable braindead gameplay followed quickly by staff campers condi mirage abusing same strategy..hence called degenerate gameplay by the same devs who created the class.
I don't lament the disappearance of LR....I am pointing out the obvious bias by you lot, playing faceroll builds up to this moment while claiming other build were faceroll
people were fine with LR before big patch, nobody complained. why? since everyone could do it, so it wasnt an issue.

"As long as I do it..it's fine and balanced"....biased player at his finest, I don't even know why the discussion still going, I made my point clear dozen of times now :

I want to put as much effort as the next guy for the same results

...why the hell some professions should have an uphill battle when fighting others? who the heck decided that?

If you want to do dmg while have sustain..then everybody should be able to do the same, don't go around whining about other professions not dying to your "l33t" combo!You whine about weaver not being balanced...

which parts of mirage and chrono were to be considered balanced?

Oh yeah, you bunch of armchair developers get to decide what is balanced and what is not, typically what you play is balanced am I right? You get to have sustain while doing damage...if anybody else does the same...it's OP and must be nerfed

My question is really simple : Why the heck you expect other people to put 3-4x more effort than you in this game to accomplish anything?

The reason we have this kind of discussion is because

players are extremely biased and selfish

by default, I can recognize my faults...you lot can't recognize yours and for as long as you keep asking for crippling nerfs on other professions so that players using those professions put it 3x more effort than you....I will keep asking for nerfs on others in return

Weaver is OP because he can do dmg while having sustain?..OK then let's remove it..along side :

all ranger builds-all engi builds - s/d thief/deadeye -PU mesmers/mirage-core necro -reaper -all guardian builds etc etc

how does that sound?...No pls spare me all the "L2P" BS, had enough of it

My efforts=your efforts and if you can't accept that neither will I so you can stop with your pointless arguments...tired of them

Its funny that you compare LR to CI, where you know, they are equally toxic and one of them was removed from the game entirely, while the other still remains and is still toxic, waiting to be OP again in the future.there was another similar trait called Lost Time. It was WORSE version of LR, also removed from the game for good, you see a pattern here?

It was never about efforts, you are claimng things that are untrue and people are calling you out on it.You said that ele was perfectly balanced around the fact that it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP strongest sidenoder with 0 counters, and its not me being salty about it, its just what it was.

Arheundel.6451 · June 9, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@"Arheundel.6451" said:LR was so strong that only 3-4 eles were sitting top 250 and they were all tournament players.. nobody was using LR outside PvP in WvW for example given its lack of sustain and skill requirement...by comparison we had builds like
Mantra of Distraction
with immobilize before nerfs....easy spammable braindead gameplay followed quickly by staff campers condi mirage abusing same strategy..hence called degenerate gameplay by the same devs who created the class.
I don't lament the disappearance of LR....I am pointing out the obvious bias by you lot, playing faceroll builds up to this moment while claiming other build were faceroll
people were fine with LR before big patch, nobody complained. why? since everyone could do it, so it wasnt an issue.

"As long as I do it..it's fine and balanced"....biased player at his finest, I don't even know why the discussion still going, I made my point clear dozen of times now :

I want to put as much effort as the next guy for the same results

...why the hell some professions should have an uphill battle when fighting others? who the heck decided that?

If you want to do dmg while have sustain..then everybody should be able to do the same, don't go around whining about other professions not dying to your "l33t" combo!You whine about weaver not being balanced...

which parts of mirage and chrono were to be considered balanced?

Oh yeah, you bunch of armchair developers get to decide what is balanced and what is not, typically what you play is balanced am I right? You get to have sustain while doing damage...if anybody else does the same...it's OP and must be nerfed

My question is really simple : Why the heck you expect other people to put 3-4x more effort than you in this game to accomplish anything?

The reason we have this kind of discussion is because

players are extremely biased and selfish

by default, I can recognize my faults...you lot can't recognize yours and for as long as you keep asking for crippling nerfs on other professions so that players using those professions put it 3x more effort than you....I will keep asking for nerfs on others in return

Weaver is OP because he can do dmg while having sustain?..OK then let's remove it..along side :

all ranger builds-all engi builds - s/d thief/deadeye -PU mesmers/mirage-core necro -reaper -all guardian builds etc etc

how does that sound?...No pls spare me all the "L2P" BS, had enough of it

My efforts=your efforts and if you can't accept that neither will I so you can stop with your pointless arguments...tired of them

Its funny that you compare LR to CI, where you know, they are equally toxic and one of them was removed from the game entirely, while the other still remains and is still toxic, waiting to be OP again in the future.there was another similar trait called Lost Time. It was WORSE version of LR, also removed from the game for good, you see a pattern here?

It was never about efforts, you are claimng things that are untrue and people are calling you out on it.You said that ele was perfectly balanced around the fact that it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP strongest sidenoder with 0 counters, and its not me being salty about it, its just what it was.

I like you...you defeat your own arguments thank you for that.

it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP

Now Imagine a spec that doesn't need to invest in sustain to have it and be free to slot as much dmg as they can...how that would be considered?You hate to admit it that I am right : nobody should get a free pass on sustain investment because that leads to OP gameplay, ofc because of your bias against eles you only see weaver and "conveniently" don't see the rest of the professions like : ranger, guardians ( I play both ), engineer, revenant etc etc ; in the rest of the game you have sustain+dmg in the same build and if that not allowed on ele...don't know why you'd imagine I'd let that happen on other professions.

Because you only barely know how to play mesmer and never tried other professions in PvP/WvW for hundreds of hours...like me , you make claims like : " tempest is more survivable than Firebrand"...everybody I spoke with in game has been laughing his/her socks off for days .

I don't know why you hate eles this much xd....anything I can do on ele...I can do on few other profession = 3x faster and 3x easier, guess what then...those who play ele right now are those who have been playing it since launch through blood and tears, your half-arsed crusade against ele is dead in the water...the class is just fun to play at this point, nothing else.

Leonidrex.5649 · June 9, 2020

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:LR was so strong that only 3-4 eles were sitting top 250 and they were all tournament players.. nobody was using LR outside PvP in WvW for example given its lack of sustain and skill requirement...by comparison we had builds like
Mantra of Distraction
with immobilize before nerfs....easy spammable braindead gameplay followed quickly by staff campers condi mirage abusing same strategy..hence called degenerate gameplay by the same devs who created the class.
I don't lament the disappearance of LR....I am pointing out the obvious bias by you lot, playing faceroll builds up to this moment while claiming other build were faceroll
people were fine with LR before big patch, nobody complained. why? since everyone could do it, so it wasnt an issue.

"As long as I do it..it's fine and balanced"....biased player at his finest, I don't even know why the discussion still going, I made my point clear dozen of times now :

I want to put as much effort as the next guy for the same results

...why the hell some professions should have an uphill battle when fighting others? who the heck decided that?

If you want to do dmg while have sustain..then everybody should be able to do the same, don't go around whining about other professions not dying to your "l33t" combo!You whine about weaver not being balanced...

which parts of mirage and chrono were to be considered balanced?

Oh yeah, you bunch of armchair developers get to decide what is balanced and what is not, typically what you play is balanced am I right? You get to have sustain while doing damage...if anybody else does the same...it's OP and must be nerfed

My question is really simple : Why the heck you expect other people to put 3-4x more effort than you in this game to accomplish anything?

The reason we have this kind of discussion is because

players are extremely biased and selfish

by default, I can recognize my faults...you lot can't recognize yours and for as long as you keep asking for crippling nerfs on other professions so that players using those professions put it 3x more effort than you....I will keep asking for nerfs on others in return

Weaver is OP because he can do dmg while having sustain?..OK then let's remove it..along side :

all ranger builds-all engi builds - s/d thief/deadeye -PU mesmers/mirage-core necro -reaper -all guardian builds etc etc

how does that sound?...No pls spare me all the "L2P" BS, had enough of it

My efforts=your efforts and if you can't accept that neither will I so you can stop with your pointless arguments...tired of them

Its funny that you compare LR to CI, where you know, they are equally toxic and one of them was removed from the game entirely, while the other still remains and is still toxic, waiting to be OP again in the future.there was another similar trait called Lost Time. It was WORSE version of LR, also removed from the game for good, you see a pattern here?

It was never about efforts, you are claimng things that are untrue and people are calling you out on it.You said that ele was perfectly balanced around the fact that it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP strongest sidenoder with 0 counters, and its not me being salty about it, its just what it was.

I like you...

you defeat your own arguments

thank you for that.

it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP

Now Imagine a spec that doesn't need to invest in sustain to have it and be free to slot as much dmg as they can...how that would be considered?You hate to admit it that I am right : nobody should get a free pass on sustain investment because that leads to OP gameplay, ofc

because of your bias against eles

you only see weaver and "conveniently" don't see the rest of the professions like : ranger, guardians ( I play both ), engineer, revenant etc etc ; in the rest of the game you have sustain+dmg in the same build and if that not allowed on ele...don't know why you'd imagine I'd let that happen on other professions.

Because you only barely know how to play mesmer and never tried other professions in PvP/WvW for hundreds of hours...

like me

, you make claims like : " tempest is more survivable than Firebrand"...everybody I spoke with in game has been laughing his/her socks off for days .

I don't know why you hate eles this much xd....anything I can do on ele...I can do on few other profession = 3x faster and 3x easier, guess what then...those who play ele right now are those who have been playing it since launch through blood and tears, your half-kitten crusade against ele is dead in the water...the class is just fun to play at this point, nothing else.

I see broken, I call it out. Back in CI I advocated for it to get ICD since it fucked over people ( mostly necros )and you my friend are are definition of biased.Warrior used to go full damage and get sustain, that is correct.Weaver used to go full sustain and get the damge, that is also correct.Its irrelevant how much you "slot" for something, it doesnt mean jack shit.Weaver was STRONGER then warrior that "got sustain for free"

Arheundel.6451 · June 9, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:LR was so strong that only 3-4 eles were sitting top 250 and they were all tournament players.. nobody was using LR outside PvP in WvW for example given its lack of sustain and skill requirement...by comparison we had builds like
Mantra of Distraction
with immobilize before nerfs....easy spammable braindead gameplay followed quickly by staff campers condi mirage abusing same strategy..hence called degenerate gameplay by the same devs who created the class.
I don't lament the disappearance of LR....I am pointing out the obvious bias by you lot, playing faceroll builds up to this moment while claiming other build were faceroll
people were fine with LR before big patch, nobody complained. why? since everyone could do it, so it wasnt an issue.

"As long as I do it..it's fine and balanced"....biased player at his finest, I don't even know why the discussion still going, I made my point clear dozen of times now :

I want to put as much effort as the next guy for the same results

...why the hell some professions should have an uphill battle when fighting others? who the heck decided that?

If you want to do dmg while have sustain..then everybody should be able to do the same, don't go around whining about other professions not dying to your "l33t" combo!You whine about weaver not being balanced...

which parts of mirage and chrono were to be considered balanced?

Oh yeah, you bunch of armchair developers get to decide what is balanced and what is not, typically what you play is balanced am I right? You get to have sustain while doing damage...if anybody else does the same...it's OP and must be nerfed

My question is really simple : Why the heck you expect other people to put 3-4x more effort than you in this game to accomplish anything?

The reason we have this kind of discussion is because

players are extremely biased and selfish

by default, I can recognize my faults...you lot can't recognize yours and for as long as you keep asking for crippling nerfs on other professions so that players using those professions put it 3x more effort than you....I will keep asking for nerfs on others in return

Weaver is OP because he can do dmg while having sustain?..OK then let's remove it..along side :

all ranger builds-all engi builds - s/d thief/deadeye -PU mesmers/mirage-core necro -reaper -all guardian builds etc etc

how does that sound?...No pls spare me all the "L2P" BS, had enough of it

My efforts=your efforts and if you can't accept that neither will I so you can stop with your pointless arguments...tired of them

Its funny that you compare LR to CI, where you know, they are equally toxic and one of them was removed from the game entirely, while the other still remains and is still toxic, waiting to be OP again in the future.there was another similar trait called Lost Time. It was WORSE version of LR, also removed from the game for good, you see a pattern here?

It was never about efforts, you are claimng things that are untrue and people are calling you out on it.You said that ele was perfectly balanced around the fact that it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP strongest sidenoder with 0 counters, and its not me being salty about it, its just what it was.

I like you...

you defeat your own arguments

thank you for that.

it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP

Now Imagine a spec that doesn't need to invest in sustain to have it and be free to slot as much dmg as they can...how that would be considered?You hate to admit it that I am right : nobody should get a free pass on sustain investment because that leads to OP gameplay, ofc

because of your bias against eles

you only see weaver and "conveniently" don't see the rest of the professions like : ranger, guardians ( I play both ), engineer, revenant etc etc ; in the rest of the game you have sustain+dmg in the same build and if that not allowed on ele...don't know why you'd imagine I'd let that happen on other professions.

Because you only barely know how to play mesmer and never tried other professions in PvP/WvW for hundreds of hours...

like me

, you make claims like : " tempest is more survivable than Firebrand"...everybody I spoke with in game has been laughing his/her socks off for days .

I don't know why you hate eles this much xd....anything I can do on ele...I can do on few other profession = 3x faster and 3x easier, guess what then...those who play ele right now are those who have been playing it since launch through blood and tears, your half-kitten crusade against ele is dead in the water...the class is just fun to play at this point, nothing else.

I see broken, I call it out. Back in CI I advocated for it to get ICD since it kitten over people ( mostly necros )and you my friend are are definition of biased.Warrior used to go full damage and get sustain, that is correct.Weaver used to go full sustain and get the damge, that is also correct.Its irrelevant how much you "slot" for something, it doesnt mean jack kitten.Weaver was STRONGER then warrior that "got sustain for free"

Well said!Now there are other professions to nerf...the patch was a good step in the right direction...before long your mesmer will be viable the way you want..and no buffs will be necessary

Leonidrex.5649 · June 9, 2020

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:LR was so strong that only 3-4 eles were sitting top 250 and they were all tournament players.. nobody was using LR outside PvP in WvW for example given its lack of sustain and skill requirement...by comparison we had builds like
Mantra of Distraction
with immobilize before nerfs....easy spammable braindead gameplay followed quickly by staff campers condi mirage abusing same strategy..hence called degenerate gameplay by the same devs who created the class.
I don't lament the disappearance of LR....I am pointing out the obvious bias by you lot, playing faceroll builds up to this moment while claiming other build were faceroll
people were fine with LR before big patch, nobody complained. why? since everyone could do it, so it wasnt an issue.

"As long as I do it..it's fine and balanced"....biased player at his finest, I don't even know why the discussion still going, I made my point clear dozen of times now :

I want to put as much effort as the next guy for the same results

...why the hell some professions should have an uphill battle when fighting others? who the heck decided that?

If you want to do dmg while have sustain..then everybody should be able to do the same, don't go around whining about other professions not dying to your "l33t" combo!You whine about weaver not being balanced...

which parts of mirage and chrono were to be considered balanced?

Oh yeah, you bunch of armchair developers get to decide what is balanced and what is not, typically what you play is balanced am I right? You get to have sustain while doing damage...if anybody else does the same...it's OP and must be nerfed

My question is really simple : Why the heck you expect other people to put 3-4x more effort than you in this game to accomplish anything?

The reason we have this kind of discussion is because

players are extremely biased and selfish

by default, I can recognize my faults...you lot can't recognize yours and for as long as you keep asking for crippling nerfs on other professions so that players using those professions put it 3x more effort than you....I will keep asking for nerfs on others in return

Weaver is OP because he can do dmg while having sustain?..OK then let's remove it..along side :

all ranger builds-all engi builds - s/d thief/deadeye -PU mesmers/mirage-core necro -reaper -all guardian builds etc etc

how does that sound?...No pls spare me all the "L2P" BS, had enough of it

My efforts=your efforts and if you can't accept that neither will I so you can stop with your pointless arguments...tired of them

Its funny that you compare LR to CI, where you know, they are equally toxic and one of them was removed from the game entirely, while the other still remains and is still toxic, waiting to be OP again in the future.there was another similar trait called Lost Time. It was WORSE version of LR, also removed from the game for good, you see a pattern here?

It was never about efforts, you are claimng things that are untrue and people are calling you out on it.You said that ele was perfectly balanced around the fact that it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP strongest sidenoder with 0 counters, and its not me being salty about it, its just what it was.

I like you...

you defeat your own arguments

thank you for that.

it needs to slot sustain to sustain, but in the end it doesnt matter since weaver was broken OP

Now Imagine a spec that doesn't need to invest in sustain to have it and be free to slot as much dmg as they can...how that would be considered?You hate to admit it that I am right : nobody should get a free pass on sustain investment because that leads to OP gameplay, ofc

because of your bias against eles

you only see weaver and "conveniently" don't see the rest of the professions like : ranger, guardians ( I play both ), engineer, revenant etc etc ; in the rest of the game you have sustain+dmg in the same build and if that not allowed on ele...don't know why you'd imagine I'd let that happen on other professions.

Because you only barely know how to play mesmer and never tried other professions in PvP/WvW for hundreds of hours...

like me

, you make claims like : " tempest is more survivable than Firebrand"...everybody I spoke with in game has been laughing his/her socks off for days .

I don't know why you hate eles this much xd....anything I can do on ele...I can do on few other profession = 3x faster and 3x easier, guess what then...those who play ele right now are those who have been playing it since launch through blood and tears, your half-kitten crusade against ele is dead in the water...the class is just fun to play at this point, nothing else.

I see broken, I call it out. Back in CI I advocated for it to get ICD since it kitten over people ( mostly necros )and you my friend are are definition of biased.Warrior used to go full damage and get sustain, that is correct.Weaver used to go full sustain and get the damge, that is also correct.Its irrelevant how much you "slot" for something, it doesnt mean jack kitten.Weaver was STRONGER then warrior that "got sustain for free"

Well said!Now there are other professions to nerf...the patch was a good step in the right direction...before long your mesmer will be viable the way you want..and no buffs will be necessary

no it wont, similar how warrior wont be viable if you nerf the top classes, if they nerf holo people will take scrapper not warrior, since scrapper is just better.mesmer will still be shitty version of thief no matter how many times holo/ranger/rev gets nerfedand no matter how many times fb/tempest gets nerfed wont change the fact that druid doesnt fit as a support at all.

Jables.4659 · June 9, 2020

I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

Leonidrex.5649 · June 9, 2020

@Jables.4659 said:I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

unless enemy tank necro uses lich form, then you better fucking run boi or that sweet 7,6k crit auto is coming for ya ass you 20k hp light armor peep xd

Arheundel.6451 · June 9, 2020

@"Widmo.3186" said:ANet: We nerf all power coefficients so that there wont be any oneshot builds anymore. Game should be more fun, skill based and entertaining.
-
-
Condi tank builds and builds with high stealth/evade uptime that cant be spiked because there are hardly any spikes left: hello there

Ha! Thought it was taboo to speak about stealth/evade uptime on this forum...else the thief brigade will come to get you...you're a brave one indeed, watch your back..the thief police is after you

Lighter.5631 · June 10, 2020

@Jables.4659 said:I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

exactly, now side noders are holding hands and dancing in tournament on stream. too forgiving, low tier player might find this fun, but as you progress you will find out how completely anti-fun this is, as more and more player become way worse then you yet they will still hold the point incredible long from you, as skill is incredibly irrelevant now.

ZeteCommander.4937 · June 10, 2020

@Shiyo.3578 said:
@ZeteCommander.4937 said:I can't stand this kind of balance strategy that reduces the skill floor to flatters bad players. This kind of bad design has been used in wow. Now they admit that this kind of idea fails and makes improvement. The game is still making the same mistake

But that isn't the design philosophy at all. You're supposed to have to work for damage now, instead of mash any button and it does 1/3 of someones HP.

The issue is the blatantly easy classes(hi every bunker/necro) that require absolutely no thought and just pianoing your keyboard outlasting your opponent.

I feel that the current version is just like Wow 7.0 8.0. The PVP experience is very bad. There are very few choices for everyone to do.The game may now be able to meet the needs of bad players by designing a degenerate route, but the problem of no depth will soon be exposed. The unprecedented downturn in the number of live and PvP video shows this problem

Psycoprophet.8107 · June 10, 2020

It's simple, devs are exceptionally bad at their job, mean to say but truth hurts.

mortrialus.3062 · June 10, 2020

@Lighter.5631 said:
@"Jables.4659" said:I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

exactly, now side noders are holding hands and dancing in tournament on stream. too forgiving, low tier player might find this fun, but as you progress you will find out how completely anti-fun this is, as more and more player become way worse then you yet they will still hold the point incredible long from you, as skill is incredibly irrelevant now.

That face when in your epic player run community tournament two high tier players just /dance because actually trying to fight and kill each other isn't possible and a waste of time.

Psycoprophet.8107 · June 10, 2020

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Lighter.5631 said:
@"Jables.4659" said:I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

exactly, now side noders are holding hands and dancing in tournament on stream. too forgiving, low tier player might find this fun, but as you progress you will find out how completely anti-fun this is, as more and more player become way worse then you yet they will still hold the point incredible long from you, as skill is incredibly irrelevant now.

That face when in your epic player run community tournament two high tier players just /dance because actually trying to fight and kill each other isn't possible and a waste of time.

The balance devs should be proud, as I'm sure the so called manager of the project as well, man I wish I had a boss as easy going as their team managers lol

fumcheg.1936 · June 10, 2020

Now is obviously better. Still not good enough but better than it was before. They just need to tune down condi in general and survivability of some specs.

It was the same low skilled trash before but ppl back then didn't have to put any effort and just could do the same skill rotation over and over to destroy other classes that had fewer blocks/invuls/so on. Now they cannot do that (except some broken specs), of course they are unhappy.

mortrialus.3062 · June 10, 2020

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"Shiyo.3578" said:Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.
Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.
They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

And what is good design?

1) "I have failed my burst..let me sit in stealth and let me try again and again"2) "I can keep attacking while the game sustain itself for me, I don't even need to dodge"3) "My l33t burst failed...it's ok I have infinite evade/block or can use my 2nd health bar and tank everything"

I tell you what is good design : Huge burst on others= easy death for you and none of the builds seen before the patch were indication of it, that's what upset me there shouldn't be any High reward= low risk kitten in this game! But there is still and it was getting abused to no end before the huge patch , we had specs doing way too much dmg for the sustain they had.

If Anet would stop with their mantra : "instant gratification builds"

Maybe we would get somewhere.......

Funny that you bring up fighting games.

And this video also showcases the kinds of mind games and combat flow that GW2's pre-megabalance patch was significantly closer to. Of course you'd probably scream "OMG that one attack did 25% health that's OP!" and "OMG The OTHER player did 33% of the other player's health in ONE SECOND?! NERF!"

This breakdown of a few ways a fight can play out explains a lot of what makes competitive games fun and why GW2's PvP was significantly more fun before the megabalance patch. Attacks mean something. Any attack landing has immediate ramifications on the rest of the fight. Any attack missing can have immediate ramifications on the flow of combat, especially if you whiff and you get punished. And regardless of who landed their attack the fight is progressing towards an actual victor.

Here's the thing. GW2's actual mechanics are pretty simple. Every weapon kit has an autoattack of varying damage and utility based on a variety of factors such as range and the mechanical purpose of the kit. The rest of their kit tend to have a 1-2 very serious damage dealing skills, and then a mix of defensive, mobility, ranged and crowd control skills. Everything typically does a bit of damage but it's your main damage skills that are, well, your main source of damage. And all of them are just one keybind away. GW2 doesn't make you do Forward Quarter Circle, or Forward, Down, Down-Forward, or Quarter Circle Half Circle Back to use skills, let alone perform One Frame Links.

Sure, you could Arcing Slice someone for 6k-10k damage. But it was never as simple just "oh I press button and haha big damage go brrrrrr." It was a dance between "Okay I can Arcing Slice this guardian but they have Shield of Wrath up which will negate my attack and if I'm close to him and don't manage to break his shield I'll suffer huge damage, so I'm going to stay out of his range until it explodes and then try and bait their last dodge with a Blade Trail into Whirlwind Blade, I do need to be careful though because if they use Zealot's Blade while I try to Blade Trail it'll just destroy my attack, and if I can get him to spend his last dodge I can land Arcing Slice."

GW2's combat more closely resembled the way fights played out in a fighting game. High stakes, fast paced, and a mind game of positioning and working to land your high value skills while trying to use positioning, your dodges, and your defensive cooldowns to avoid their high damage skills because if it lands it will end the fight while they do the same. It was about knowing your enemy's potential and knowing what is punishable, knowing when they whiff a skill or poorly waste a defensive skill you've seriously shifted the outcome of the fight.

GW2's combat now is like if they tried to import the worst aspects of competitive RTS games into GW2; Fights can take half an hour before they can end. There isn't any real decisive blow or impressive kill shot, but about performing thousands of low value actions over those 30 minutes. Skills are no longer akin to actually attacking someone, but more akin to making a worker at your base and carry the same level of excitement. Even MOBAs have significantly faster and more exciting combat than the current state of GW2's combat. Sure a MOBA match can last for a half hour but there's tons of individual fights and fights between champions can end in under five seconds.

Even if the next balance patch perfectly balanced the game where every class and spec can perform equally well competitively, the environment post megabalance will never be good. It will never be anything more than a boring, slushy, slow, slog of a game.

mortrialus.3062 · June 10, 2020

@fumcheg.1936 said:Now is obviously better. Still not good enough but better than it was before. They just need to tune down condi in general and survivability of some specs.
It was the same low skilled trash before but ppl back then didn't have to put any effort and just could do the same skill rotation over and over to destroy other classes that had fewer blocks/invuls/so on. Now they cannot do that (except some broken specs), of course they are unhappy.

Before the megabalance patch every class had an excellent, competative, viable build for PvP all the way to the highest tiers. Sometimes several.

fumcheg.1936 · June 10, 2020

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@fumcheg.1936 said:Now is obviously better. Still not good enough but better than it was before. They just need to tune down condi in general and survivability of some specs.
It was the same low skilled trash before but ppl back then didn't have to put any effort and just could do the same skill rotation over and over to destroy other classes that had fewer blocks/invuls/so on. Now they cannot do that (except some broken specs), of course they are unhappy.

Before the megabalance patch every class had an excellent, competative, viable build for PvP all the way to the highest tiers. Sometimes several.

I atm have several viable builds so I'm fine

Arheundel.6451 · June 10, 2020

@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"Shiyo.3578" said:Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.
Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.
They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

And what is good design?

1) "I have failed my burst..let me sit in stealth and let me try again and again"2) "I can keep attacking while the game sustain itself for me, I don't even need to dodge"3) "My l33t burst failed...it's ok I have infinite evade/block or can use my 2nd health bar and tank everything"

I tell you what is good design : Huge burst on others= easy death for you and none of the builds seen before the patch were indication of it, that's what upset me there shouldn't be any High reward= low risk kitten in this game! But there is still and it was getting abused to no end before the huge patch , we had specs doing way too much dmg for the sustain they had.

If Anet would stop with their mantra : "instant gratification builds"

Maybe we would get somewhere.......

Funny that you bring up fighting games.

And this video also showcases the kinds of mind games and combat flow that GW2's pre-megabalance patch was significantly closer to. Of course you'd probably scream "OMG that one attack did 25% health that's OP!" and "OMG The OTHER player did 33% of the other player's health in ONE SECOND?! NERF!"

This breakdown of a few ways a fight can play out explains a lot of what makes competitive games fun and why GW2's PvP was significantly more fun before the megabalance patch. Attacks mean something. Any attack landing has immediate ramifications on the rest of the fight. Any attack missing can have immediate ramifications on the flow of combat, especially if you whiff and you get punished. And regardless of who landed their attack the fight is progressing towards an actual victor.

Here's the thing. GW2's actual mechanics are pretty simple. Every weapon kit has an autoattack of varying damage and utility based on a variety of factors such as range and the mechanical purpose of the kit. The rest of their kit tend to have a 1-2 very serious damage dealing skills, and then a mix of defensive, mobility, ranged and crowd control skills. Everything typically does a bit of damage but it's your main damage skills that are, well, your main source of damage. And all of them are just one keybind away. GW2 doesn't make you do Forward Quarter Circle, or Forward, Down, Down-Forward, or Quarter Circle Half Circle Back to use skills, let alone perform One Frame Links.

Sure, you could Arcing Slice someone for 6k-10k damage. But it was never as simple just "oh I press button and haha big damage go brrrrrr." It was a dance between "Okay I can Arcing Slice this guardian but they have Shield of Wrath up which will negate my attack and if I'm close to him and don't manage to break his shield it'll suffer huge damage, so I'm going to stay out of his range until it explodes and then try and bait their last dodge with a Blade Trail into Whirlwind Blade, I do need to be careful though because if they use Zealot's Blade while I try to Blade Trail it'll just destroy my attack, and if I can get him to spend his last dodge I can land Arcing Slice."

GW2's combat more closely resembled the way fights played out in a fighting game. High stakes, fast paced, and a mind game of positioning and working to land your high value skills while trying to use positioning, your dodges, and your defensive cooldowns to avoid their high damage skills because if it lands it will end the fight while they do the same. It was about knowing your enemy's potential and knowing what is punishable, knowing when they whiff a skill or poorly waste a defensive skill you've seriously shifted the outcome of the fight.

GW2's combat now is like if they tried to import the worst aspects of competitive RTS games into GW2; Fights can take half an hour before they can end. There isn't any real decisive blow or impressive kill shot, but about performing thousands of low value actions over those 30 minutes. Skills are no longer akin to actually attacking someone, but more akin to making a worker at your base and carry the same level of excitement. Even MOBAs have significantly faster and more exciting combat than the current state of GW2's combat. Sure a MOBA match can last for a half hour but there's tons of individual fights and fights between champions can end in under five seconds.

Even if the next balance patch perfectly balanced the game where every class and spec can perform equally well competitively, the environment post megabalance will never be good. It will never be anything more than a boring, slushy, slow, slog of a game.

So it's fine if say a warrior deal 10k dmg on say an ele ok......so because ele by design is more squishy it should deal 2x that dmg and on the same CD of 6-8s and from range being a caster class after all am I right?

mortrialus.3062 · June 10, 2020

@Arheundel.6451 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@Arheundel.6451 said:
@mortrialus.3062 said:
@"Shiyo.3578" said:Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.
Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.
The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.
They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.