Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

[viquing.8254]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade spamming or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something is bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

[Psycoprophet.8107]

War is basic as is its bursts leading to telegraphed and easily predictable bursts which increase the ease at which it can be avoided but it still has to be as effective as classes its surrounded by.Look at condi rev,cindi thief, holo,condi slb and necros. Are those devoid of skills that do more than one thing? Or guards? This meta is definitely more forgiving for way less skill involved.

[viquing.8254]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).I never compared the two, is chrono in a good spot? I donno I dont play it and never hear of anyone playing it high tier or complaining about it being op.

[Supreme.3164]

This is a long thread, there are as many people not liking the one shot meta as those who do

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Supreme.3164 said:This is a long thread, there are as many people not liking the one shot meta as those who do

No won liked the one shot meta they just think it woulda been better to shave the damage spikes on the few offenders by a bit and move on instead of causing way more issues with inter-class balance.

[Supreme.3164]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:This is a long thread, there are as many people not liking the one shot meta as those who do

No won liked the one shot meta they just think it woulda been better to shave the damage spikes on the few offenders by a bit and move on instead of causing way more issues with inter-class balance.

Some professions by design will always be stronger than others in 1v1 if that is what you mean by inter-class balance, nerfs won't change that reality

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Supreme.3164 said:This is a long thread, there are as many people not liking the one shot meta as those who do

No won liked the one shot meta they just think it woulda been better to shave the damage spikes on the few offenders by a bit and move on instead of causing way more issues with inter-class balance.

Some professions by design will always be stronger than others in 1v1 if that is what you mean by inter-class balance, nerfs won't change that reality

No I meant skills that were already underperforming got hit as hard as skills that were fine or overperforming as such happens in a blanket reduction when a appropriate follow up balance sweep doesn't happen but instead singular minor tweaks to couple select classes that are being screamed about on the forums. I'm talking about how such a patch will hit certain classes far harder than others due to a multitude of reasons and how out right removing damage on cc's also effects some classes far more than others while getting zero compensation.This game is in a horrid balance state and without the proper follow up the praised blanket balance patch did nothing to resolve the horrid balance state of the game and in a lot of cases made it far worse.

[Lighter.5631]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

wait, what about berserker who has higher telegraphed skills and has worse sustain and worse damage? yes nerf spellbreaker because it was better then chrono, also nerf chrono because it's obviously better then berserker LOL, can we also nerf all mesmer spec because throw bola is so bad? tanks.

[Arheundel.6451]

Truer words have never been spoken

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

The quickness is the telegraph. If they use Quickness, thats when that combo is coming and you should probably dodge.

They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.

Most classes rely on evades more than blocks. For that matter, their unblockable skills were not very high damage. So thats an odd thing to complain about.

They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

The gameplay they had was perfectly fine. Warrior is and was always the most fair class to fight (well, out of the ones actually played). So I have to say, finding people who dislike it is just amusing to me. Though, word of advice: If Arheundel agrees you with, youre most likely wrong.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

2 wrongs does not make a right. If Chrono was underperforming, then buff up chrono. Dont nerf everything else.

[UNOwen.7132]

@viquing.8254 said:@"mortrialus.3062" :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.

Yes, thats why we saw 2 people dancing in the MOTA because they both knew they couldnt kill each other. Its worse than the Cele Ele meta, Cele Ele actually did damage. As did Cele Engineer.

With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Yeah except fights were long enough for almost all skills to come up again pre-patch. We already did full rotations and combos. Now however, well fights are so long and so slow that combos or rotations dont matter. You just use everything off cooldown and hope that you can kill them. Its less skillful. Its more spammy.

@"Psycoprophet.8107" :Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).

Yes, because Warrior, the notoriously balanced and fair class, "carried" people. What a load of nonsense.

Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.

If youre referring to bull rush, thats not the reason warrior sucks right now. Its still a good skill. Same with Rampage. Its everything else that sucks.

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

Quickness didn't increase the speed of Bull's Charge so you still have that. Again if there's issues with tells we could still have address Warrior on an individual level by trimming quickness uptime, I actually agreed with sigil of agility being removed, or upping the time on certain skills like Arcing Slice. Without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It's really funny seeing so many players suddenly have a vendetta against spellbreaker because literally EVERY time a "What is the most fun/fair class to fight" it won every time with like 30-45% of the vote.

@viquing.8254 said:@"mortrialus.3062" :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Literally go back and youtube Cele Ele 2015 and watch some of the 1v1 duel videos of people still lingering around with people literally fighting for 5-7 minutes. They aren't hard to find. This is a cele ele meta. Builds don't have massive strengths or weaknesses. Everyone is a slushy hybrid that does a little bit of everything and has way too much sustain.

Spamming your Burst Combo would only get you so far because competent players can both predict and react to incoming combos, avoid your attack, and then counter attack with their own combo.

Sure a Warrior can open up with a Bull's Charge, but the enemy will probably dodge it. And even if you land it they might stunbreak out and avoid your attempt to deal damage to them meaning you've wasted a 30 second cooldown with little reward and now the enemy can counter attack you more aggressively.

Which is what good competitive games ACTUALLY look like. There's high damage. Things are high impact and dangerous. And it's about the mind games that allow you to play your opponent and avoid their attempts to attack you while you land your skills. Of you're you'd probably look at other games like Street Fighter, or LoL and wet the bed about how skill can do 30% of a person's health in one attack.

Dive Kick is more nuanced and sound in its competitive design than Guild Wars 2 is now. This shit is an embarrassment.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Tycura.1982 said:Worst it's ever been. Pre patch was a lot more skill based.

^ This.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:This poll isn't accurate because anyone who disliked the old meta quit the game long ago and the majority of people around were already having fun in the old meta, so they're the ones voting.

The only reason I'm back is because of the revamp. The game is a lot better now, but holo, ranger, and rev all have too much sustain and go against the entire design philosophy of the patch. Zero investment for tons of sustain = bad, and all 3 of those classes have far, far too much free sustain.

untrue, most people who prefer pre-patch are mostly active players i saw on the forum even before feb 25, and actually most people who like meta now, are people who i have not see any at all pre-patch in forum or in game pre-patch and even now.this is not about holo/ranger/rev being too much sustain(in fact these builds die super fast if you pick the counter build). it's about not having any skill involvement in the game. see if they nerf sustain again, you people will again complain about too much damage. so these are really pointless, what's important is that if this meta is fun/skillful to play or fight in. which currently, condition rev is definitely the degenerate of power rev, and daredevil is degenerate of core thief, so is defense warrior, it's passive, it's boring and it lives too long and still does good damage, what's the different? skill/fun.

in fact ,i would like to think anyone who enjoys the current meta compared to feb 25th meta might be low tier players, since the only difference is basically now requires less skill to play and die slower.also it is almost the same boring meta that killed pvp scene HoT, but you wouldn't know, while most people who dislike the current meta know because they played.

Also this.

[viquing.8254]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

wait, what about berserker who has higher telegraphed skills and has worse sustain and worse damage? yes nerf spellbreaker because it was better then chrono, also nerf chrono because it's obviously better then berserker LOL, can we also nerf all mesmer spec because throw bola is so bad? tanks.

Hi we found someone who like to split things out of context.Welcome.We don't nerf spellbreaker because of chrono but telegraphed skills should bot necessary have 5k damage tied in it.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

The quickness is the telegraph. If they use Quickness, thats when that combo is coming and you should probably dodge.They have the option to brain you by not using this combo and use another skills who did 4k +. Btw their main damage at high level was unblocable evade in their golden time.

They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.

Most classes rely on evades more than blocks. For that matter, their unblockable skills were not very high damage. So thats an odd thing to complain about.You don't get it I'm not complaining about warrior but about the fact that they have other particularity than throwing 4k every single attack.And apart thief and weaver. Most class rely on block.

They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

The gameplay they had was perfectly fine. Warrior is and was always the most fair class to fight (well, out of the ones actually played). So I have to say, finding people who dislike it is just amusing to me. Though, word of advice: If Arheundel agrees you with, youre most likely wrong.No, they have he more x actions and passive effect tools of every class that's why they get the most umpacted when anet want to make 1 skill do 1 action.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

2 wrongs does not make a right. If Chrono was underperforming, then buff up chrono. Dont nerf everything else.Again the point was about high telegraphed didn't justify 3 actions on hit + high damage on every clics.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.

Yes, thats why we saw 2 people dancing in the MOTA because they both knew they couldnt kill each other. Its worse than the Cele Ele meta, Cele Ele actually did damage. As did Cele Engineer.How many time did this happen.It has nothing to do with global balance orientation but wih few class tweak.

With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Yeah except fights were long enough for almost all skills to come up again pre-patch. We already did full rotations and combos. Now however, well fights are so long and so slow that combos or rotations dont matter. You just use everything off cooldown and hope that you can kill them. Its less skillful. Its more spammy.No, prepatch was always the same things for ages.

@Psycoprophet.8107 :Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).

Yes, because Warrior, the notoriously balanced and fair class, "carried" people. What a load of nonsense.Agains this discussion was about the rework not about warrior being op. It wasn't pre patch ofc.But ot has a bunch of 3 in 1 tools.

Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.

If youre referring to bull rush, thats not the reason warrior sucks right now. Its still a good skill. Same with Rampage. Its everything else that sucks.Losing the ability to take away 40 % hp in one button impact it as well.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

Quickness didn't increase the speed of Bull's Charge so you still have that. Again if there's issues with tells we could still have address Warrior on an individual level by trimming quickness uptime, I actually agreed with sigil of agility being removed, or upping the time on certain skills like Arcing Slice. Without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It's really funny seeing so many players suddenly have a vendetta against spellbreaker because literally EVERY time a "What is the most fun/fair class to fight" it won every time with like 30-45% of the vote.Man it's crazy how the bunch of perma whiner on this forum jump on everything out of context.To make it clear I take it as an example who can apply to every class before each people here do wall of text defending war.And your most fun fair class did most of his damage with spamming unblocable evade at high level...

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Literally go back and youtube Cele Ele 2015 and watch some of the 1v1 duel videos of people still lingering around with people literally fighting for 5-7 minutes. They aren't hard to find. This is a cele ele meta. Builds don't have massive strengths or weaknesses. Everyone is a slushy hybrid that does a little bit of everything and has way too much sustain.

Spamming your Burst Combo would only get you so far because competent players can both predict and react to incoming combos, avoid your attack, and then counter attack with their own combo.

The passive pressure around this coming from 3 in 1 tools took a more important part than predict and react.

Which is what good competitive games ACTUALLY look like. There's high damage. Things are high impact and dangerous. And it's about the mind games that allow you to play your opponent and avoid their attempts to attack you while you land your skills. Of you're you'd probably look at other games like Street Fighter, or LoL and wet the bed about how skill can do 30% of a person's health in one attack.Yeah this is also called FPS games like CS.

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

wait, what about berserker who has higher telegraphed skills and has worse sustain and worse damage? yes nerf spellbreaker because it was better then chrono, also nerf chrono because it's obviously better then berserker LOL, can we also nerf all mesmer spec because throw bola is so bad? tanks.

Hi we found someone who like to split things out of context.Welcome.We don't nerf spellbreaker because of chrono but telegraphed skills should bot necessary have 5k damage tied in it.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

The quickness is the telegraph. If they use Quickness, thats when that combo is coming and you should probably dodge.They have the option to brain you by not using this combo and use another skills who did 4k +. Btw their main damage at high level was unblocable evade in their golden time.

They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.

Most classes rely on evades more than blocks. For that matter, their unblockable skills were not very high damage. So thats an odd thing to complain about.You don't get it I'm not complaining about warrior but about the fact that they have other particularity than throwing 4k every single attack.And apart thief and weaver. Most class rely on block.

They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

The gameplay they had was perfectly fine. Warrior is and was always the most fair class to fight (well, out of the ones actually played). So I have to say, finding people who dislike it is just amusing to me. Though, word of advice: If Arheundel agrees you with, youre most likely wrong.No, they have he more x actions and passive effect tools of every class that's why they get the most umpacted when anet want to make 1 skill do 1 action.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

2 wrongs does not make a right. If Chrono was underperforming, then buff up chrono. Dont nerf everything else.Again the point was about high telegraphed didn't justify 3 actions on hit + high damage on every clics.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.

Yes, thats why we saw 2 people dancing in the MOTA because they both knew they couldnt kill each other. Its worse than the Cele Ele meta, Cele Ele actually did damage. As did Cele Engineer.How many time did this happen.It has nothing to do with global balance orientation but wih few class tweak.

With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Yeah except fights were long enough for almost all skills to come up again pre-patch. We already did full rotations and combos. Now however, well fights are so long and so slow that combos or rotations dont matter. You just use everything off cooldown and hope that you can kill them. Its less skillful. Its more spammy.No, prepatch was always the same things for ages.

@Psycoprophet.8107 :Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).

Yes, because Warrior, the notoriously balanced and fair class, "carried" people. What a load of nonsense.Agains this discussion was about the rework not about warrior being op. It wasn't pre patch ofc.But ot has a bunch of 3 in 1 tools.

Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.

If youre referring to bull rush, thats not the reason warrior sucks right now. Its still a good skill. Same with Rampage. Its everything else that sucks.Losing the ability to take away 40 % hp in one button impact it as well.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

Quickness didn't increase the speed of Bull's Charge so you still have that. Again if there's issues with tells we could still have address Warrior on an individual level by trimming quickness uptime, I actually agreed with sigil of agility being removed, or upping the time on certain skills like Arcing Slice. Without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It's really funny seeing so many players suddenly have a vendetta against spellbreaker because literally EVERY time a "What is the most fun/fair class to fight" it won every time with like 30-45% of the vote.Man it's crazy how the bunch of perma whiner on this forum jump on everything out of context.To make it clear I take it as an example who can apply to every class before each people here do wall of text defending war.And your most fun fair class did most of his damage with spamming unblocable evade at high level...

Wasn't "my " most fun class to fight. Just that it WON the most fair/fun class to fight every single time through Path of Fire, which it always did. That isn't me. That's the community. The reason I brought up warrior and broke down why certain skills have such high value is because @Arheundel.6451 kept bringing up Warrior as being unfair. And again individual class issues remaining could easily have been adjusted like removing unblockable run Reckless dodge. Spellbreaker's bread and butter was still always Arcing Slice.

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Literally go back and youtube Cele Ele 2015 and watch some of the 1v1 duel videos of people still lingering around with people literally fighting for 5-7 minutes. They aren't hard to find. This is a cele ele meta. Builds don't have massive strengths or weaknesses. Everyone is a slushy hybrid that does a little bit of everything and has way too much sustain.

Spamming your Burst Combo would only get you so far because competent players can both predict and react to incoming combos, avoid your attack, and then counter attack with their own combo.

The passive pressure around this coming from 3 in 1 tools took a more important part than predict and react.

Nah. For starters I had issues with Holosmith, but even then if I saw them stealth I could expect them to try and heal and then reengage with photonic shockwave. So I could know well enough to kite away from where they stealthed at and then and avoid the shock wave and if they still managed to land it I could do things like Blink or Signet of Midnight within a fraction of a second because I was expecting exactly that.

Let's look at another "3 in 1" tool. The Prestige when used in close range would blind the target and stealth the mesmer. After three seconds the mesmer would unstealth and an explosion would occur around them for burning damage in a melee radius around the mesmer. So it can be used from ranged to engage, or to escape combat, or to deal damage in melee range, but it couldn't be used for all three at once. That's flexibility for sure, but you're always PICKING between two potential options; escape with it or attack with it. As far as I'm concerned. That was fine. Except now the mesmer even on a condition build can't do even 80% of the targets health with one of their primary damage dealing attacks even when fully speced for condition damage.

A traited 24 second primary DPS cooldown did 14% of the medium golem's health while carrion stated which means it would take at least literally 168 seconds to kill someone with this skill and it's a PRIMARY damage dealing ability for condition mesmers. And that's IF they don't cleanse and if they don't heal. Almost every build in the game can face tank that skill 4 times back to back, use their healing skill and be back to 80-100% health depending on the class and healing skill.

This whole idea of "well CC skills need to do basically no damage." Like I literally have no idea where that came from on a philosophical level. There wasn't some huge demand on the forum to eliminate damage dealing CC skills. The most complained about ones were like Photonic Shockwave from stealths or Overcharged Shot when the Engineer had stab and was in melee range making it basically an instant cast blow out. In real fighting games if you whiff and open yourself to getting punished you can expect to be hitstunned for several seconds. Because it was your fault. Because you opened yourself up to being countered.

I don't recall literally anyone asking for this and it's lead to some for real nonsense like Warrior Hammer having three out of it's six skills do literally no damage including the kit's primary damage dealing skills, Earth Shaker and Backbreaker.

Like let's look at a skill I did want to see nerfed; Prime Light Beam. Prime Light Beam hit hard, and it was a massive blowout which is the strongest CC type in the game. But it had a reasonable cooldown of 60 seconds and it had a very forgiving wind up animation. My problem with Prime Light Beam wasn't that it did damage, but because of it's projectileless nature if cast from stealth there would be no opportunity to dodge it if the holosmith was stealthed. My solution? Have prime light beam apply reveal to the holosmith when the begin casting it so that there's no opportunity to tag an opponent from stealth without them being able to see and react to the animation as a whole. Which actually would have given Prime Light Beam more counterplay why keeping it a powerful skill when used right. Which is a significantly better change than putting all CC skills at 0 damage, a change literally no one asked for before the Megabalance.

Seriously. Bring me up the thread of players across all tiers of gameplay puzzled why certain skills both did CC and Damage and their personal outrage over the injustice.

The entire Megabalance has been nonsense. Pure absolute nonsense.

Which is what good competitive games ACTUALLY look like. There's high damage. Things are high impact and dangerous. And it's about the mind games that allow you to play your opponent and avoid their attempts to attack you while you land your skills. Of you're you'd probably look at other games like Street Fighter, or LoL and wet the bed about how skill can do 30% of a person's health in one attack.Yeah this is also called FPS games like CS.

Or, you know, the other better ones I listed and on page 3 wrote down a breakdown of how at the more deadlier Era before the Megabalance Patch more closely resembled other good NonFPS competative games in a good way? And even then, would anyone even play CS if even after 20 headshots your opponent was still running around with 80% health? That's GW2 right now.

But keep defending the way things are when Dive Kick's 2019 championship, a literal joke game with one button, has higher championship viewership than GW2's "Masters of the Arena." and by a huge margin. I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Dive Kick is at this point, unambiguously, a better PvP game than GW2 and it's sludge meta. It's literally a fucking joke game and STILL manages to have better fundamentals than GW2 post megabalance..

But if you're such an adamant "Oh go play some other game then". I have been! And it's been tons of fun. I've been playing a bunch of Monster Hunter for my superior PvE fix, and then Blazblue and Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator in anticipation for the upcoming Guilty Gear game for my PvP fix. I gave the megabalance patch a try with 2v2s and the couple of weeks of proper conquest the season after and basically haven't looked back. This shit is an embarrassment. If i was a part of the PvP team and it came out looking like this I would ask Arenanet to leave me uncredited because I wouldn't want to be associated with having any hand in this going forward with my Game Dev career.

I just still can't help but be nostalgic for better times in GW2 and look at what is is now and think "Wow shit is fucked" and comment on it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

wait, what about berserker who has higher telegraphed skills and has worse sustain and worse damage? yes nerf spellbreaker because it was better then chrono, also nerf chrono because it's obviously better then berserker LOL, can we also nerf all mesmer spec because throw bola is so bad? tanks.

Hi we found someone who like to split things out of context.Welcome.We don't nerf spellbreaker because of chrono but telegraphed skills should bot necessary have 5k damage tied in it.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

The quickness is the telegraph. If they use Quickness, thats when that combo is coming and you should probably dodge.They have the option to brain you by not using this combo and use another skills who did 4k +. Btw their main damage at high level was unblocable evade in their golden time.

They have unblocable skills which mean that even if you know they will do something chance are high you can't counter it with your usual tempo. They are basically immune to cripple, can build to be very resistant to hard CC. I will not make 300 lines about war because I have basics knowledge on it but even by not poping 4k+ minimum each attacks they have strong particularity.

Most classes rely on evades more than blocks. For that matter, their unblockable skills were not very high damage. So thats an odd thing to complain about.You don't get it I'm not complaining about warrior but about the fact that they have other particularity than throwing 4k every single attack.And apart thief and weaver. Most class rely on block.

They have to turn it more into teamfight than into duellist with atomic buttons full of passive effects IMO.It's all to anet to find what gameplay they want to give to them.

The gameplay they had was perfectly fine. Warrior is and was always the most fair class to fight (well, out of the ones actually played). So I have to say, finding people who dislike it is just amusing to me. Though, word of advice: If Arheundel agrees you with, youre most likely wrong.No, they have he more x actions and passive effect tools of every class that's why they get the most umpacted when anet want to make 1 skill do 1 action.

And what about chrono who has highly telegraphed skills but has no sustain or damage.... (Mean getting hit by grav well is the same obviousness to get hit by bullcharge and it didn't give evade to the mes. I didn't even talk about trahs other wells).

2 wrongs does not make a right. If Chrono was underperforming, then buff up chrono. Dont nerf everything else.Again the point was about high telegraphed didn't justify 3 actions on hit + high damage on every clics.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.

Yes, thats why we saw 2 people dancing in the MOTA because they both knew they couldnt kill each other. Its worse than the Cele Ele meta, Cele Ele actually did damage. As did Cele Engineer.How many time did this happen.It has nothing to do with global balance orientation but wih few class tweak.

With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Yeah except fights were long enough for almost all skills to come up again pre-patch. We already did full rotations and combos. Now however, well fights are so long and so slow that combos or rotations dont matter. You just use everything off cooldown and hope that you can kill them. Its less skillful. Its more spammy.No, prepatch was always the same things for ages.

@Psycoprophet.8107 :Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).

Yes, because Warrior, the notoriously balanced and fair class, "carried" people. What a load of nonsense.Agains this discussion was about the rework not about warrior being op. It wasn't pre patch ofc.But ot has a bunch of 3 in 1 tools.

Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.

If youre referring to bull rush, thats not the reason warrior sucks right now. Its still a good skill. Same with Rampage. Its everything else that sucks.Losing the ability to take away 40 % hp in one button impact it as well.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Anyway I barely play the game anymore so this stuff effects u guys more than I:).But I also could care less vanq what u think, if I play war post patch and feel that its weak in comparison to other classes I play and find it now less fun to play that's my deal, how u feel doesnt effect how war feels to me but when pretty much all war mains feel the same as me and hearing vallun,noody, happyno, mighty teapot and sindrener all state war is weak post patch I'm inclined to think I'm on to something where as ur opinion holds literally no weight or backing so.....

Ofc war is weak because what I said about skill who did 3 things per clics.Ofc it's not fun to not 2 shot people anymore by spamming the same combo forever.

Thief prepatch had a ladder representation more than enjoyable, understand the "fun" fact of playing something with diversity and highly represented.

If you can't understand how pushing a button who did 5k + 3 sec hard CC + Mobility + evade versus class who had to push 4 buttons for it isn't healthy I will write it simple for you : the less action you have to do for the same result, the easier it is.

About war, you are right, every skills are predictable, they just throwed way more "predictable" 5k+ (and sometimes CC and/or evade tied in it) than you can counter. Mean duelling boyce or goku to see in log that his main damage came from 8k unblocable evade or attacks with evade tied in it. Hmm you smell the skill...

Literally most high end players that streams competitions give their opinions about class they didn't even play. Just count the amount of time they say mesmers is op while not even being able to perform with it because their current class is way more carrying. But it's hard to admit.

Now warrior isn't in a good spot but it just need a "what this class gameplay is supossed to be" like mirage or chrono. Which has nothing to do with the rework as like everyone said when I say 'but this class can do it' : it's not because something it's bad design that you could use it. (=> argumentation on most mesmers nerfs.)

Now your opinion, like some other eternal whiners who always have to whine about something in this forum, has probably the same height you gave to my post.

Again u have to consider design of the class. If a class burst is highly telegraphed and predictable or its main burst in question is than yes its should be punishing to get hit by or it would not be effective. On the other hand if a class like thief for example requires couple more button presses the fact that it's less predictable and telegraphed makes up for the extra button presses. A class like war will always be more predictable and telegraphed than most classes or basic u could generally say and that wont change so if it is more predictable and has more telegraphed skills than most and requires same input to do same effect of classes that dont suffer the issues it will always feel inferior to play as it does now

I have doubts about the fact that a bullcharge + F1 combo under quickness launched in melee is obviously telegraphed but whatever.

Quickness didn't increase the speed of Bull's Charge so you still have that. Again if there's issues with tells we could still have address Warrior on an individual level by trimming quickness uptime, I actually agreed with sigil of agility being removed, or upping the time on certain skills like Arcing Slice. Without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

It's really funny seeing so many players suddenly have a vendetta against spellbreaker because literally EVERY time a "What is the most fun/fair class to fight" it won every time with like 30-45% of the vote.Man it's crazy how the bunch of perma whiner on this forum jump on everything out of context.To make it clear I take it as an example who can apply to every class before each people here do wall of text defending war.And your most fun fair class did most of his damage with spamming unblocable evade at high level...

Wasn't "my " most fun class to fight. Just that it WON the most fair/fun class to fight every single time through Path of Fire, which it always did. That isn't me. That's the community. The reason I brought up warrior and broke down why certain skills have such high value is because @Arheundel.6451 kept bringing up Warrior as being unfair. And again individual class issues remaining could easily have been adjusted like removing unblockable run Reckless dodge. Spellbreaker's bread and butter was still always Arcing Slice.

@viquing.8254 said:@mortrialus.3062 :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

Literally go back and youtube Cele Ele 2015 and watch some of the 1v1 duel videos of people still lingering around with people literally fighting for 5-7 minutes. They aren't hard to find. This is a cele ele meta. Builds don't have massive strengths or weaknesses. Everyone is a slushy hybrid that does a little bit of everything and has way too much sustain.

Spamming your Burst Combo would only get you so far because competent players can both predict and react to incoming combos, avoid your attack, and then counter attack with their own combo.

The passive pressure around this coming from 3 in 1 tools took a more important part than predict and react.

Nah. For starters I had issues with Holosmith, but even then if I saw them stealth I could expect them to try and heal and then reengage with photonic shockwave. So I could know well enough to kite away from where they stealthed at and then and avoid the shock wave and if they still managed to land it I could do things like Blink or Signet of Midnight within a fraction of a second because I was expecting exactly that.

Let's look at another "3 in 1" tool. The Prestige when used in close range would blind the target and stealth the mesmer. After three seconds the mesmer would unstealth and an explosion would occur around them for burning damage in a melee radius around the mesmer. So it can be used from ranged to engage, or to escape combat, or to deal damage in melee range, but it couldn't be used for all three at once. That's flexibility for sure, but you're always PICKING between two potential options; escape with it or attack with it. As far as I'm concerned. That was fine. Except now the mesmer even on a condition build can't do even 80% of the targets health with one of their primary damage dealing attacks even when fully speced for condition damage.

A traited 24 second primary DPS cooldown did 14% of the medium golem's health while carrion stated which means it would take at least literally

168 seconds

to kill someone with this skill and it's a PRIMARY damage dealing ability for condition mesmers. And that's IF they don't cleanse and if they don't heal. Almost every build in the game can face tank that skill 4 times back to back, use their healing skill and be back to 80-100% health depending on the class and healing skill.

This whole idea of "well CC skills need to do basically no damage." Like I literally have no idea where that came from on a philosophical level. There wasn't some huge demand on the forum to eliminate damage dealing CC skills. The most complained about ones were like Photonic Shockwave from stealths or Overcharged Shot when the Engineer had stab and was in melee range making it basically an instant cast blow out. In real fighting games if you whiff and open yourself to getting punished you can expect to be hitstunned for several seconds. Because it was

your

fault. Because you opened

yourself

up to being countered.

I don't recall literally anyone asking for this and it's lead to some for real nonsense like Warrior Hammer having three out of it's six skills do literally no damage including the kit's primary damage dealing skills, Earth Shaker and Backbreaker.

Like let's look at a skill I

did

want to see nerfed; Prime Light Beam. Prime Light Beam hit hard, and it was a massive blowout which is the strongest CC type in the game. But it had a reasonable cooldown of 60 seconds and it had a very forgiving wind up animation. My problem with Prime Light Beam wasn't that it did damage, but because of it's projectileless nature if cast from stealth there would be no opportunity to dodge it if the holosmith was stealthed. My solution? Have prime light beam apply reveal to the holosmith when the begin casting it so that there's no opportunity to tag an opponent from stealth without them being able to see and react to the animation as a whole. Which actually would have given Prime Light Beam more counterplay why keeping it a powerful skill when used right. Which is a significantly better change than putting all CC skills at 0 damage, a change literally no one asked for before the Megabalance.

Seriously. Bring me up the thread of players across all tiers of gameplay puzzled why certain skills both did CC and Damage and their personal outrage over the injustice.

The entire Megabalance has been nonsense. Pure absolute nonsense.

Which is what good competitive games ACTUALLY look like. There's high damage. Things are high impact and dangerous. And it's about the mind games that allow you to play your opponent and avoid their attempts to attack you while you land your skills. Of you're you'd probably look at other games like Street Fighter, or LoL and wet the bed about how skill can do 30% of a person's health in one attack.Yeah this is also called FPS games like CS.

Or, you know, the other better ones I listed and on page 3 wrote down a breakdown of how at the more deadlier Era before the Megabalance Patch more closely resembled other good NonFPS competative games in a good way? And even then, would anyone even play CS if even after 20 headshots your opponent was still running around with 80% health? That's GW2 right now.

But keep defending the way things are when Dive Kick's 2019 championship, a literal joke game with one button, has higher championship viewership than GW2's "Masters of the Arena." and by a huge margin. I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Dive Kick is at this point, unambiguously, a better PvP game than GW2 and it's sludge meta. It's literally a kitten joke game and STILL manages to have better fundamentals than GW2 post megabalance..

But if you're such an adamant "Oh go play some other game then". I have been! And it's been tons of fun. I've been playing a bunch of Monster Hunter for my superior PvE fix, and then Blazblue and Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator in anticipation for the upcoming Guilty Gear game for my PvP fix. I gave the megabalance patch a try with 2v2s and the couple of weeks of proper conquest the season after and basically haven't looked back. This kitten is an embarrassment. If i was a part of the PvP team and it came out looking like this I would ask Arenanet to leave me uncredited because I wouldn't want to be associated with having any hand in this going forward with my Game Dev career.

I just still can't help but be nostalgic for better times in GW2 and look at what is is now and think "Wow kitten is kitten" and comment on it.

Amen!

[Arheundel.6451]

This whole thread is a farce, in the end you have :

-One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic-One side is equally biased but openly admit it, they have their own arguments to counter the L2P crowd-One side simply doesn't care of anything and will jump on whichever train is the fastest after every major balance patch ( the true winners in the end)

In the end there is only one truth : we have a game with 9 different professions and players acting like humans would act - ride the cart in their own direction and screw the rest, from the TOP to the BOTTOM , each player will favor a meta where his/her class of choice will have a vast majority of easy match ups against all other professions, the least effort to win those match ups the better, in that case the game is balanced and if you die to their class...it's ofc a L2P issue

A doesn't want to die easy to B and B doesn't want to die easy to A

We are all biased and nobody here is a game designer , "your" streamers...entertainers...youtubers....bloggers...jokers......are biased AF as much as you, the devs themselves can be biased even if only subconsciously when applying changes , one class they're not particularly fond of, may receive a 20s CD nerf instead than a more appropriate 15s and so on.

The title of thread is misleading...it should be renamed : "Buff my main" and buffed it will be have no fears about that, before long you will go back facerolling across the keyboard and YES...when the first "Nerf profession X" will pop out on the forum, you will be here on the front line armed with all your L2P insults , anecdotal evidence to justify your unreasonable positioning and ofc...your fictional game designing experience

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:This whole thread is a farce, in the end you have :

-One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic-One side is equally biased but openly admit it, they have their own arguments to counter the L2P crowd-One side simply doesn't care of anything and will jump on whichever train is the fastest after every major balance patch ( the true winners in the end)

In the end there is only one truth : we have a game with 9 different professions and players acting like humans would act - ride the cart in their own direction and screw the rest, from the TOP to the BOTTOM , each player will favor a meta where his/her class of choice will have a vast majority of easy match ups against all other professions, the least effort to win those match ups the better, in that case the game is balanced and if you die to their class...it's ofc a L2P issue

A doesn't want to die easy to B and B doesn't want to die easy to A

We are all biased and nobody here is a game designer , "your" streamers...entertainers...youtubers....bloggers...jokers......are biased AF as much as you, the devs themselves can be biased even if only subconsciously when applying changes , one class they're not particularly fond of, may receive a 20s CD nerf instead than a more appropriate 15s and so on.

The title of thread is misleading...it should be renamed : "Buff my main" and buffed it will be have no fears about that, before long you will go back facerolling across the keyboard and YES...when the first "Nerf profession X" will pop out on the forum, you will be here on the front line armed with all your L2P insults , anecdotal evidence to justify your unreasonable positioning and ofc...your fictional game designing experience

This honestly reads like ur self reflecting on urself, good job :)

[Arheundel.6451]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:This whole thread is a farce, in the end you have :

-One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic-One side is equally biased but openly admit it, they have their own arguments to counter the L2P crowd-One side simply doesn't care of anything and will jump on whichever train is the fastest after every major balance patch ( the true winners in the end)

In the end there is only one truth : we have a game with 9 different professions and players acting like humans would act -

ride the cart in their own direction and screw the rest

, from the TOP to the BOTTOM , each player will favor a meta where his/her class of choice will have a vast majority of

easy match ups

against all other professions, the least effort to win those match ups the better, in that case the game is balanced and if you die to their class...it's ofc a L2P issue

A doesn't want to die easy to B and B doesn't want to die easy to A

We are all biased and nobody here is a game designer , "your" streamers...entertainers...youtubers....bloggers...jokers......

are biased AF as much as you

, the devs themselves can be biased even if only subconsciously when applying changes , one class they're not particularly fond of, may receive a 20s CD nerf instead than a more appropriate 15s and so on.

The title of thread is misleading...it should be renamed : "Buff my main" and buffed it will be have no fears about that, before long you will go back facerolling across the keyboard and YES...when the first "Nerf profession X" will pop out on the forum, you will be here on the front line armed with all your L2P insults , anecdotal evidence to justify your unreasonable positioning and ofc...your fictional game designing experience

This honestly reads like ur self reflecting on urself, good job :)

That's something you don't do at all...instead prefer to keep feeding your own delusions...

"One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic"

Have a good day

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:This whole thread is a farce, in the end you have :

-One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic-One side is equally biased but openly admit it, they have their own arguments to counter the L2P crowd-One side simply doesn't care of anything and will jump on whichever train is the fastest after every major balance patch ( the true winners in the end)

In the end there is only one truth : we have a game with 9 different professions and players acting like humans would act -

ride the cart in their own direction and screw the rest

, from the TOP to the BOTTOM , each player will favor a meta where his/her class of choice will have a vast majority of

easy match ups

against all other professions, the least effort to win those match ups the better, in that case the game is balanced and if you die to their class...it's ofc a L2P issue

A doesn't want to die easy to B and B doesn't want to die easy to A

We are all biased and nobody here is a game designer , "your" streamers...entertainers...youtubers....bloggers...jokers......

are biased AF as much as you

, the devs themselves can be biased even if only subconsciously when applying changes , one class they're not particularly fond of, may receive a 20s CD nerf instead than a more appropriate 15s and so on.

The title of thread is misleading...it should be renamed : "Buff my main" and buffed it will be have no fears about that, before long you will go back facerolling across the keyboard and YES...when the first "Nerf profession X" will pop out on the forum, you will be here on the front line armed with all your L2P insults , anecdotal evidence to justify your unreasonable positioning and ofc...your fictional game designing experience

This honestly reads like ur self reflecting on urself, good job :)

That's something you don't do at all...instead prefer to keep feeding your own delusions...

"One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic"

Have a good day

oh burn! Lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:This whole thread is a farce, in the end you have :

-One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic-One side is equally biased but openly admit it, they have their own arguments to counter the L2P crowd-One side simply doesn't care of anything and will jump on whichever train is the fastest after every major balance patch ( the true winners in the end)

In the end there is only one truth : we have a game with 9 different professions and players acting like humans would act -

ride the cart in their own direction and screw the rest

, from the TOP to the BOTTOM , each player will favor a meta where his/her class of choice will have a vast majority of

easy match ups

against all other professions, the least effort to win those match ups the better, in that case the game is balanced and if you die to their class...it's ofc a L2P issue

A doesn't want to die easy to B and B doesn't want to die easy to A

We are all biased and nobody here is a game designer , "your" streamers...entertainers...youtubers....bloggers...jokers......

are biased AF as much as you

, the devs themselves can be biased even if only subconsciously when applying changes , one class they're not particularly fond of, may receive a 20s CD nerf instead than a more appropriate 15s and so on.

The title of thread is misleading...it should be renamed : "Buff my main" and buffed it will be have no fears about that, before long you will go back facerolling across the keyboard and YES...when the first "Nerf profession X" will pop out on the forum, you will be here on the front line armed with all your L2P insults , anecdotal evidence to justify your unreasonable positioning and ofc...your fictional game designing experience

This honestly reads like ur self reflecting on urself, good job :)

That's something you don't do at all...instead prefer to keep feeding your own delusions...

"One side that is biased AF but won't admit it ever, they will "invoke" the L2P argument at every turn to justify their distorted logic"

Have a good day

Ur in ele threads in ele section ooooohhhh poor ele my class is so weak, dont play ele is gbage now, my class is so underpowered, than u go into other class threads and come down on others for doing the same. U did this when u mained ranger as well. Stay outa class threads of classes u don't play and leave those to people that actually play the classes. U really need to take a hard look at urself.As I've said and many have noticed any class u play is always weak or balanced and never overperforming yet all classes u dont are never weak or balanced lmao, ur to much man.Have a good day. :)