Do You Find The Game More Fun To Play Now Or Before Revamp

[Xentera.4560]

Definitely more fun now. No self-respecting game should allow a player to be one-shot 100-0 in a split second while cc’ed. And often from a long range, or from stealth.

[viquing.8254]

@Arheundel.6451 said:...by comparison we had builds like Mantra of Distraction with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

You can be wrong. I'm okay with that.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

[ZeteCommander.4937]

balance team destroys all other buildings that can be used, and only those that are recognized by them. In addition, the skill cooldown is too long, and the game experience is terrible

[viquing.8254]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

[Koen.1327]

way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

[viquing.8254]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

I should precise while playing power mirage.And we aren't in a cele ele like meta.Dont try to extrapolate the few things that have to be addressed.

[mortrialus.3062]

@viquing.8254 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

I should precise while playing power mirage.And we aren't in a cele ele like meta.

This is a Cele Ele meta. Sluggish, unimpactful damage. Combatants being literally unable to kill each other for 15+ minutes at a time, unable to outdps their enemy's healing potential no matter how many attacks land back, to back, to back, to back, to back with pure face tank and no regard for avoiding important attacks. Everyone is a jack of all trades hybrid that does a little bit of everything and takes ages to kill if it's even mathematically possible.

To be honest, you're right in that this isn't EXACTLY like cele ele. Cele Ele hit and crit harder than builds do now.

Dont try to extrapolate the few things that have to be addressed.

There's nothing to address. Bringing down the most powerful builds right now doesn't address how awful the game feels to play post megabalance. Even if the game gets perfect balanced it will continue to be a boring AF slow sluggish affair under this paradigm.

I really don't know how you can defend the game in this era.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

This^ way better approach compared to the gbage blanket patch that literally fkd so many builds that will now be left to rot for yrs. It's funny all these players that say this is better u can guess their mains.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

I should precise while playing power mirage.And we aren't in a cele ele like meta.

This is a Cele Ele meta. Sluggish, unimpactful damage. Combatants being literally unable to kill each other for 15+ minutes at a time, unable to outdps their enemy's healing potential no matter how many attacks land back, to back, to back, to back, to back with pure face tank and no regard for avoiding important attacks. Everyone is a jack of all trades hybrid that does a little bit of everything and takes ages to kill if it's even mathematically possible.

To be honest, you're right in that this isn't EXACTLY like cele ele. Cele Ele hit and crit harder than builds do now.

Dont try to extrapolate the few things that have to be addressed.

There's nothing to address. Bringing down the most powerful builds right now doesn't address how awful the game feels to play post megabalance. Even if the game gets perfect balanced it will continue to be a boring AF slow sluggish affair under this paradigm.

I really don't know how you can defend the game in this era.

To answer ur question at the end, they defend it cuz they play one or a couple of the handful of classes that were left above others due to the lazy asf balance patch that dropped power coefficients on everything with zero consideration for how it would effect each class individually. The funny thing is anet made a statement about being aware this would happen but have done 2% of the work in 5 months to fix those very issues. These devs were not up to the task to take on such a thing as it takes them forever to make just a few changes.

[Koen.1327]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Koen.1327" said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

Its vastly different. All they had to do was shave a few of the outliers damage spikes and the game would felt 10x better than now. Then if u failed against a warrior getting caught by the very predictable burst rotation that is simply dodgeable u were punished even if u had a stunbreak cuz u still lost 4k from bullscharge, now bullscharge is a joke unless uve used all ur stunbreaks or stab giving utilities cuz who cares u get caught and stunbreak losing 80 hp for punishment lmao. Condis are so strong per tick and easy to re-apply u just build tanky and spam ur skills no thought and ull outlast most classes. There's no skill in this game anymore whatsoever. Certain power builds have to play smart and badly out play tanky condi builds that just stand and spam, instead of wrecking them in secs if spamming and rotating thru sustain skills is all the skill they have.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

Mirage used to dodge to deal damage, people could punish it, but you had to know how to move around them.Now I can fight necro that double dodges for fun and I cant punish since he has 70k eHP and my every single ability even if landed doesnt even cover half of that.So the only chance to actually kill that type of builds is to 1vX them and fucking CC them untill their raw HP goes to 0.It actually is so fucking bad that as mesmer in teamfight dealing damage is useless, and my job is to constantly sword ambush onto the worst player in the enemy team untill he gets pissed off and starts making huge mistakes or he gets rolled over by condi spam since he cant defend himself due to constant dazes.

[Koen.1327]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

Its vastly different. All they had to do was shave a few of the outliers damage spikes and the game would felt 10x better than now. Then if u failed against a warrior getting caught by the very predictable burst rotation that is simply dodgeable u were punished even if u had a stunbreak cuz u still lost 4k from bullscharge, now bullscharge is a joke unless uve used all ur stunbreaks or stab giving utilities cuz who cares u get caught and stunbreak losing 80 hp for punishment lmao. Condis are so strong per tick and easy to re-apply u just build tanky and spam ur skills no thought and ull outlast most classes. There's no skill in this game anymore whatsoever. Certain power builds have to play smart and badly out play tanky condi builds that just stand and spam, instead of wrecking them in secs if spamming and rotating thru sustain skills is all the skill they have.

you just have a different interpretation of "spam" - pretty much all cooldowns have been increased so spamming will just make you lose fastereyes closed bull charges + f1 with 25 might hitting for 15k total was such a good way to punish people for their mistakes right?the meta is power leaning btw, just condi rev has slight edge over power rev otherwise every class is better as power apart from mirage

[Koen.1327]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

Mirage used to dodge to deal damage, people could punish it, but you had to know how to move around them.Now I can fight necro that double dodges for fun and I cant punish since he has 70k eHP and my every single ability even if landed doesnt even cover half of that.So the only chance to actually kill that type of builds is to 1vX them and kitten CC them untill their raw HP goes to 0.It actually is so kitten bad that as mesmer in teamfight dealing damage is useless, and my job is to constantly sword ambush onto the worst player in the enemy team untill he gets pissed off and starts making huge mistakes or he gets rolled over by condi spam since he cant defend himself due to constant dazes.

im trying to say that you can't rotate into any fight anymore so that means not trying to fight a nec with cooldowns or any disadvantagenot saying balance is better but for me more fun and relaxed to play - for sure not less skillfull than before (dunno if so different tbh)

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Koen.1327 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Koen.1327 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Koen.1327 said:way more relaxed nowright before 25th feb patch it was actually really bad imo, full with one shot thieves and none remembers 15 min weave battle crann vs curry? that's same as 1v1s now

Lmao way more relaxed now indeed, no need to worry about map awareness or being punished for mistakes. As long as u play a certain handful of builds u can brainless spam condis, make multiple mistakes and still win fights against players on other builds who outplay u. Yes relaxed indeed and very skillful lol.

how is this different from before the patch? all pof scourges and mirages weren't "brainless condi spam"? mirages were punished for randomly dodging as they are now?map awareness in pof and mistakes? good thing rotations didnt mean anything as you could just +1 any class any node to the point that rampage became the best +1rotations and map awareness are far more important now because a bad fight is lost - like you said - you can lose to other builds even if u outplay them (if you rotate into bad fight you're not outplaying btw)

Mirage used to dodge to deal damage, people could punish it, but you had to know how to move around them.Now I can fight necro that double dodges for fun and I cant punish since he has 70k eHP and my every single ability even if landed doesnt even cover half of that.So the only chance to actually kill that type of builds is to 1vX them and kitten CC them untill their raw HP goes to 0.It actually is so kitten bad that as mesmer in teamfight dealing damage is useless, and my job is to constantly sword ambush onto the worst player in the enemy team untill he gets pissed off and starts making huge mistakes or he gets rolled over by condi spam since he cant defend himself due to constant dazes.

im trying to say that you can't rotate into any fight anymore so that means not trying to fight a nec with cooldowns or any disadvantagenot saying balance is better but for me more fun and relaxed to play - for sure not less skillfull than before (dunno if so different tbh)

then we see things differently, fast paced gameplay is more fun and appealing for me. Partly why I like mesmer, if im gonna win or lose I wanna do it fast.I feel like there is not enough damage for 1v1/2v2 to end as fast as it should. Obv in bigger fights like 4v4/5v5 when 4/5 people focus 1 person they just die but thats not the point. I dont want to spend 2min fighting out 1v1 with someone, there is NO skill expression in that, it doesnt matter if you are actually wining since if fight takes THIS long it WILL BE decided by who gets +1 anyways.

[Arheundel.6451]

Wisdow

[Supreme.3164]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

Even a single one shot build is enough to dictate the meta, anything that can't survive the one shot ..won't be played much if at all, so people will gravitate towards builds that are not affected that much by one shot but then...people will complain as much as for one shot builds if not more.

I agree with the devs in increasing the time to kill in the game, maybe it has been increased too much and should be lowered...still it should not be brought back to its original one shot status

[ArthurDent.9538]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:...by comparison we had builds like

Mantra of Distraction

with immobilize before nerfs....Are you talking about the things who get disabled mid season last year ?As far as I know mesmer is the only class who has a trait removed mid season during months while not even having the ladder representation of current rev or pre patch thieves.Mean the amount of hate from dev and players on the supposed golden child is hudge and I have doubt it's based on efficiency data...

Majority of people started hating on mesmer with the introduction of Condi mirage, which not surprisingly is what the vast majority of current mesmer can play effectively.Not really, people hating mesmer since launch because of illusions.

On another note I'm totally fine with the rework patch who gut 3 in 1 buttons for everyone.And It will be good if people stop arguing about skill when before patch there was clic to win buttons...Pre-patch game was clearly less skillier and way more carrying IMO.

Not even close, u got punished way harder. People whined pre patch about damage cuz they got punished by better players on squishy burst classes when they fd up and couldn't handle it so cried like babies. Now u just build high sustain and condi and spam and servive way more than u should. Games gbage right now

Ok first I I didn't agree about the tank meta in the sense that I already kill people, even rev or ele on power mes. (Which is why i get plat 3 last season.)There were way more tankier meta.Secondly pre patch wasn't about get punished but about the first who push his 3 in 1 buttons, the counter strike headshot hype which IMO :

• Limit build diversity.
• Limit counterplay.

mean you would always had class with better carrying skills. And this gap was greatly reduced thanks to the push 1 button to do 1 things concept.Now we shouldn't wait 6 months for fixes.

The only builds that could "really" unpredictably "one shot" people with a burst were DP Thief, Power Mesmer, and Deadeye. All of which could be addressed on an individual level without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Keep waiting for balance. Even if they balance this mess it will never be good. You can't call this"build diversity" when everyone is for all intents and purposes a 2015 cele ele.

I should precise while playing power mirage.And we aren't in a cele ele like meta.

This is a Cele Ele meta. Sluggish, unimpactful damage. Combatants being literally unable to kill each other for 15+ minutes at a time, unable to outdps their enemy's healing potential no matter how many attacks land back, to back, to back, to back, to back with pure face tank and no regard for avoiding important attacks. Everyone is a jack of all trades hybrid that does a little bit of everything and takes ages to kill if it's even mathematically possible.

To be honest, you're right in that this isn't EXACTLY like cele ele. Cele Ele hit and crit harder than builds do now.

Dont try to extrapolate the few things that have to be addressed.

There's nothing to address. Bringing down the most powerful builds right now doesn't address how awful the game feels to play post megabalance. Even if the game gets perfect balanced it will continue to be a boring AF slow sluggish affair under this paradigm.

I really don't know how you can defend the game in this era.

The pre HoT cele ele mirror match up with fire water arcana traits was actually not a stalemate and was subjectively quite fun with the current 1v1 meta being way more boring even if technically more diverse. Adding tempst and dropping fire for earth in the build made the mirror complete stalemate regardless of skill during HoT.

[viquing.8254]

@"mortrialus.3062" :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

@Psycoprophet.8107 :Guess what about main ? Did you play war pre-patch ?

Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.You know I have two elites who are nerfed to hell, even with that, I find this patch health globally in his concepts of not having coffee buttons unlike you.If you want to deliberate more about this, I'm all yours as bravan get tired of making posts.

[jsp.6912]

better so far but there is the moment to have a new big patch because after 3 month, we need new thing

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@viquing.8254 said:@"mortrialus.3062" :No, it's not a cele ele meta, neither a chrono bunker like meta, people can be killed if they rollface contrary to what few players seems to brainspam in this forum trying to make it a truth like it ever been.With more combat duration you have the time to do complete rotations or combo on some build who never existed before because it was just "spam burst combo".

@Psycoprophet.8107 :Guess what about main ? Did you play war pre-patch ?

Ho after reading your last answers you obviously being carried by plethore 3 in 1 buttons pre patch, I understand why you get so mad (But hey, just dodge hu :) .).Stranghely warriors are the more impacted by the patch because they had the best 3 in 1 buttons in their toolbar, that's all. It's certainly hard to do as much actions as other to have results when you aren't used to.You know I have two elites who are nerfed to hell, even with that, I find this patch health globally in his concepts of not having coffee buttons unlike you.If you want to deliberate more about this, I'm all yours as bravan get tired of making posts.

I played most s/d and dp thief pre patch so yeah totally 3n1 button press wins for me all around, u got me. 3n1 skills dont always lead to being OP, it's not nearly as simple as that. Warrior had some skills that had multiple effects as well as synergies but were also tied to HIGHLY TELEGRAPHED AND PREDICTABLE burst rotations that u could easily haha just dodge emiright?. I'm sry but if u had problems with war pre patch, thee class seen as the most honest and predictable class than I really don't need to bother arguing with u. Also the fact that u disregard that literally every high end players that streams competitions etc that dont even main war feels the same about warriors being weakest in the game right now and stated as much, among all the actuall war mains who state the same.Name one high tier player that mains war or even that doesnt that feels warrior is in a good spot?