Want to support the game but... The gemstore.

[Floppy.4936]

So this is a bit of a rant and most likely not a popular opinion but I am currently finding it difficult to justify spending money on gemstore items. I love GW2 and want to support the game, however there are a few concerns that are pushing me away from the gemstore.

The first issue I have is with mount skins and that sets of Mount skins rarely get completed and take a very long time. I have been waiting years to complete my favorite mount set yet there are still unreleased skins and Anet is only bringing out newer sets. Please finish the older mount sets! I do not want to invest into any more mount skins and end up with lots of mix and match unfinished sets.

Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30. Due to this I have been put off investing in the templates and am now only becoming increasingly concerned about how the Legendary Armoury is going to be monetized.Unlimited gathering tools are also worth mentioning here as they will set you back about 3k gems per character, which again is more than PoF currently costs.

Of course I have purchased a lot of gemstore items previously however I mainly go for utility items such as Mistlock Sanctuary Pass, bank/material/inventory expansions and unlimited tools/salvage kits when on sale along with some cosmetic glider/mount skins. Beyond these I have not invested in much else due to the reason above and that I mostly see outfits and chairs on the gemstore these days. Personally I do not like outfits and have never purchased one. I love the idea of chairs and think they are a great addition, however I instantly regret buying my only chair when I found out they are technically mounts and cannot be used in places such as the Mistlock Sanctuary. So I find myself struggling to find anything that feels worthwhile to get without feeling ripped off.

I would like to note that the purpose of this thread is not just to rant about the things I don't like, but rather to bring attention to these things in hope of making the game more successful.

[kharmin.7683]

Which mount sets are unfinished? I recall somewhere that Anet wasn't going to go back to complete some of them?

As for the template concerns, you may want to address them in the threads that already exist on the topic:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91126/official-feedback-thread-about-build-and-equipment-templateshttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100933/legendary-equipment-and-templates

Unlimited gathering tools are QoL and not required to play the game. However, one can play the game and then purchase gems with in-game gold to then buy the unlimited gathering tools. That's how I got mine and probably how many other players got theirs, too!

Making the game successful to you is very subjective. I don't see how lowering pricing in the gem store for QoL items helps Anet's bottom line. I'm sure that their marketing staff is more knowledgeable about these things than I am, though.

Good luck with your requests.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@Floppy.4936 said:Unlimited gathering tools are also worth mentioning here as they will set you back about 3k gems per character, which again is more than PoF currently costs.

that number is plain wrong btw, the base price of unlimited gathering tools is 2.4k.what you are talking about is a full set of gathering tool skins.

btw i got my full set of gathering tools for 1.2k gems.

[Floppy.4936]

@"kharmin.7683" said:Which mount sets are unfinished? I recall somewhere that Anet wasn't going to go back to complete some of them?You can see here that there are still a lot of skins missing and only recently some of the oldest sets got completed. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BE11ANO4bZpqpk26blwVMRMZriC1h8uG7_zG14qxwFc/edit

Unlimited gathering tools are QoL and not required to play the game. However, one can play the game and then purchase gems with in-game gold to then buy the unlimited gathering tools. That's how I got mine and probably how many other players got theirs, too!Although I agree they are not required, as is with most of the other gemstore stuff, I still feel these are highly priced when compared to other convenience items.As for buying them with gold that defeats the purpose of this post, I like to buy gemstore item with real money as I want to support the game. Buying with gold does not help keep the game running.

Making the game successful to you is very subjective. I don't see how lowering pricing in the gem store for QoL items helps Anet's bottom line. I'm sure that their marketing staff is more knowledgeable about these things than I am, though.I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit. This is the reason items go on sale for reduced prices.

[hugo.4705]

Anet never stated they would not return to old sets, only that they will not include them in the already made set bundles. Since the classic sets (branded, exo, awakened, frost, lithe, cozy..) they never stopped completing them. See the very recently added awakened beetle skin or the branded skyscale finishing the branded set. I'm still waiting to buy exo skyscale, beetle and warclaw. But seeing awakened completing, kinda curious to see an awakened skyscale.

[Floppy.4936]

@WorldofBay.8160 said:that number is plain wrong btw, the base price of unlimited gathering tools is 2.4k.what you are talking about is a full set of gathering tool skins.

btw i got my full set of gathering tools for 1.2k gems.

Yes that is exactly what I am talking about so the number is not wrong at all. Yes the basic unlimited gathering tools with no animations or bonuses is 300 gems cheaper at base price. And they have only been available for 1.2k gems on two occasions both of which only lasted for 2 days and was also limited to 1 purchase per account. So its not like you can just easily buy them at 1.2k.

[Floppy.4936]

@hugo.4705 said:Anet never stated they would not return to old sets, only that they will not include them in the already made set bundles.Well this is not something that I said. I have not seen them say they will finish the sets or that they will not. I just know that some of the earlier sets have been unfinished for a long time and haven't had an addition in a while.

[wolfyrik.2017]

I agree. It's one of the less predatory models but it's still not good. I do sometimes purchase gems for mounts for my partner or whatever but rarely and I never use the gambling stuff. I want the game to stay open and I'm happy to pay towards that, but the prices have to be fair and the gambling nonsense seriously needs to be knocked on the head. It's edging closer to the point where I'll have to stop paying on principal. I like GW2. I don't want to have to withdraw my support.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Floppy.4936" said:I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit.I"m pretty sure that Anet's experts have considered this and know the correct price points. You and I may disagree with that, but their metrics might well tell them a different story.

This is the reason items go on sale for reduced prices.I don't think that's how marketing really works. /shrug

[Floppy.4936]

@"kharmin.7683" said:

I am no expert, but it would be a case of quantity. Lowing the price will result in people buying a lot more of them and can result in more profit.I"m pretty sure that Anet's experts have considered this and know the correct price points. You and I may disagree with that, but their metrics might well tell them a different story.

Of course, but I can only go off my experience. But when that experience is not buying any template stuff at all because of the price I cant help but notice it hasn't worked in my case. I should also point out that buying a new character slot is actually cheaper than buying 2 new equipment slots, which also doesn't make much sense.

[hugo.4705]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@"hugo.4705" said:Anet never stated they would not return to old sets, only that they will not include them in the already made set bundles.Well this is not something that I said. I have not seen them say they will finish the sets or that they will not. I just know that some of the earlier sets have been unfinished for a long time and haven't had an addition in a while.

Ow. Wasn't speaking for you. It was about Kharmin speaking about "which unfinished sets...I recall somewhere that Anet wasn't going to go back to complete some of them?". I follow the completion of sets with the same .doc document .

[Floppy.4936]

@hugo.4705 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@hugo.4705 said:Anet never stated they would not return to old sets, only that they will not include them in the already made set bundles.Well this is not something that I said. I have not seen them say they will finish the sets or that they will not. I just know that some of the earlier sets have been unfinished for a long time and haven't had an addition in a while.

Ow. Wasn't speaking for you. It was about Kharmin speaking about "which unfinished sets". I follow the completion of sets with the same .doc document .

Oh aha I see, without the quote i thought it was a response the the main post :P

[Dawdler.8521]

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a resounding yes but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont have to max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

[Floppy.4936]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)

[kharmin.7683]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

It also depends on how many templates (or build-outs as many call them) a player needs on each toon. For me, I'm very casual and the default ones were all I needed. Some players want the full amount available on every character. For them, sure, I can understand their ire at the pricing.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)Is it a bad financial idea when you're not paying money for it?

As long as gold->gems conversion exist, all arguments about gemstore monetization is moot. PvErs literally brag about their 20-30-40 gold an hour farms. That's literally around 100 gems an hour.

[Danikat.8537]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Which mount sets are unfinished? I recall somewhere that Anet wasn't going to go back to complete some of them?You can see here that there are still a lot of skins missing and only recently some of the oldest sets got completed.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BE11ANO4bZpqpk26blwVMRMZriC1h8uG7_zG14qxwFc/edit

With most of those I think it's important to remember Anet have never called them sets or said they intend to release matching skins for each mount. I understand hoping that they will (I'd like a primeval skin for each mount for example), but it's important to remember that's a distinction players have made. We don't know much about how mount skins are created, it's entirely possible one artist creates a few design intending it to be a one-off and the fact that they or another artist later adapts it for another mount is largely coincidental (or a cheap way of producing enough skins for a new licence) and they don't actually intend to finish any of these "sets". Unless you want to wait until there is a matching skin for each mount available you have to accept the risk that there will never be a complete set.

(Also on a specific note I think it's highly unlikely they'll ever release a sand themed jackal skin because the base jackal is already sand themed. So any jackal which doesn't have a different effect could fill that space.)

With the packaged mount skins Anet have been very clear that they won't expand the existing packs to include LW mounts and they seem reluctant to sell matching skins separately. They did it with the branded ones probably because players kept on and on asking, but doing it also angered some people who felt they shouldn't have to pay extra for the matching skins, or at least they should be able to get them for 400 gems each with no RNG, not via 1,200 gem select licences. I suspect any more being made will depend on how well those and the awakened beetle and Wintersday skyscale sell.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Gems cost $0.0125 USD each, or $5 USD / 400 gems (though you have to buy 800 at a time..huehue) which is the equivalent of about 125 gold atm.

A 2000 Gem exclusive mount skin then costs $25.00 USD. Sorry, I find that ridiculous. I can buy games on Steam for that price.
Character slot? 800 gems or $10 USD...the cost of a DLC pack for most games these days.Bank slot expansion? 600 Gems or $7.50 USD.Shared inventory? 700 Gems or $8.75 USD

That said.....

2000 Gem exclusive mount skin = 500 goldCharacter slot? = 250 goldBank Slot expansion? = 188 goldShared inventory? = 220 gold

Just doing Daily Completionist + T4 fractals nets me about 30g per day. Add in coin rewards from metas/strikes, pvp matches or wvw ranks, along with anything I toss onto the TP, I'm sure I make quite a bit more than that. But sticking to 30g/day, that comes in around 900 gold per month if I play every day (which I do) and do T4s every day (which I don't), which is potentially two 2000 gem mount skins every 5 weeks...just by playing the game.

I can't say if the prices on the Gem Store are outlandish or not, as that is subjective - Everyone has their own comfort zone. We aren't paying $15.00 USD / month ($180 USD / year) for a subscription fee, which is the equivalent of about 1200 gems per month / 14,400 gems per year. For me, I don't think a 2000 Gem mount skin is worth $25.00 USD OR 500 gold for that matter, but then I also would never drop $8 for a cup of coffee on my way to the office. Just imagine, each stop at a Starbucks could instead buy a new Bank Slot or even Character Slot.

If we couldn't purchase gems with gold, I probably wouldn't have stuck around with this game until now, and I think GW2 has the best F2P/ subscription free model of any MMO that I've played.

[Floppy.4936]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)Is it a bad financial idea when you're not paying money for it?

As long as gold->gems conversion exist, all arguments about gemstore monetization is moot. PvErs literally brag about their 20-30-40 gold an hour farms. That's literally

around 100 gems an hour

.

Converting gold to gems defeats the purpose of this as you are not supporting the game. Do you think Anet can pay for servers with in game gold? Also The amount of gold needed to get all the template stuff is crazy and is not something most people have lying around.

[hugo.4705]

But as a global thought, I bought the exo suit pack, it means, 2000 gems, in fact 1600 because in discount: So 325 gems a mount (5 total). And that's my issue: If I can have 5 determined mount of the same set, at high price, 400 gems per mount; why a select license is sold for 1200 gems? Following the logic, a random license should be 200 and a select license 400 gems. I have on the contrary, 0 issues with 2000 gems for prenium mount skin. but frankly, a prenium skin worth 1000, no more.

But at any price, you will always find customers buying them, and if data shows it's okay and make nice income then it enforce the fact it's a good price. Want to protest? Don't buy it. Buy I think it's a nice way to fund anet or showing you are thankful if bought with rl money.If we speak about outpricing, it's build/equipment template, nothing else.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@WorldofBay.8160 said:that number is plain wrong btw, the base price of unlimited gathering tools is 2.4k.what you are talking about is a full set of gathering tool

skins

.

btw i got my full set of gathering tools for 1.2k gems.

Yes that is exactly what I am talking about so the number is not wrong at all. Yes the basic unlimited gathering tools with no animations or bonuses is 300 gems cheaper at base price. And they have only been available for 1.2k gems on two occasions both of which only lasted for 2 days and was also limited to 1 purchase per account. So its not like you can just easily buy them at 1.2k.

non-permanent gathering tools cost ingame gold, be it direct via master craftsmen or indirect via different currencies you could convert into ingame gold (laurels, karma, valtile/unbound magic) or by replacing other stuff in random containers (dragonite ore/bloodstone dust/empyreal fragments conversions) that could've been sold for ingame gold.combined with their duration those tools have a cost per use.permanent gathering tools have no cost per use. their high pricing is necessary to keep it somewhat balanced.

compare it to the most comparable QoL that is permanent salvage kits:non-permanent salvage kits cost ingame gold, be it direct ... yada yada.combined with their duration those tools have a cost per use.permanent salvage kits have a cost per use as well and it is very close to the normal cost. copper is a bit cheaper, silver even more expensive.

do you get the difference?

the even more expensive version of permanent gathering tools (1k per tool = 3k or the rare pack of 2.7k for all 3) comes with an additional skin. a skin that costs 100-200 gems per tool! now that is actually cheap compared to other skins, isn't it? not to mention that skinned tools sometimes have a glyph in them that can be worth a lot of of gold.

permanent gathering tools imo aren't a normal QoL thing, instead, they are a permanent character enhancement that removes all cost from gathering. this enhancement is worth a lot!gathering a salad normally isn't worth the tool as the tool usage costs more than the salad. but with a permanent tool you suddenly make profit off of an otherwise useless node.

but on the pricing of templates i fully agree they are very expensive. it can be noted however that we played thsi game for a lot of years without even the possibility and got along well, so it is a pure luxury item and as in the real world, luxury is a lot more expensive than it is useful.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)Is it a bad financial idea when you're not paying money for it?

As long as gold->gems conversion exist, all arguments about gemstore monetization is moot. PvErs literally brag about their 20-30-40 gold an hour farms. That's literally

around 100 gems an hour

.

Converting gold to gems defeats the purpose of this as you are not supporting the game. Do you think Anet can pay for servers with in game gold? Also The amount of gold needed to get all the template stuff is crazy and is not something most people have lying around.Now I'm confused whether you want to support the game or not. Again, you dont have to get everything instantly (not even for cash) and you dont

have to get everything for cash either

. You act like you have to slap $350 on the counter with no other choice.

Over the years I've spent both money on buying gems and converting gold->gems.

[Floppy.4936]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Floppy.4936 said:Additional I feel the Build/Equipment templates are overly monetized. To unlock all templates and storage for each of the 9 Classes it will cost around 35,000 gems which is over £350. To me this is insane and extremely expensive especially when comparing to the price of PoF on release, which was a full expansion with lots of content and only cost £30.Yet over the current lifespan of GW2 thats just around $3 worth of gems a month. Or, the amount of gold->gems you can get in 5 hours of PvE farming. Is farming PvE 5 hours over a month really insane? I mean for me as a WvW player that is a

resounding yes

but for normal players that want PvE stuff that doesnt really sound so bad.

Now granted, templates havent been around for 8 years but still its the same concept, you are dumping it all in one pile and thinking its a big number. You dont

have to

max out all characters instantly. If you feel you do... well thats on you isnt it? And its going to cost you, exactly according to Anets evil plans.

I think purchasing the stuff in a way that you do not notice the actual cost is not only a bad financial idea but not the solution to this. :)Is it a bad financial idea when you're not paying money for it?

As long as gold->gems conversion exist, all arguments about gemstore monetization is moot. PvErs literally brag about their 20-30-40 gold an hour farms. That's literally

around 100 gems an hour

.

Converting gold to gems defeats the purpose of this as you are not supporting the game. Do you think Anet can pay for servers with in game gold? Also The amount of gold needed to get all the template stuff is crazy and is not something most people have lying around.Now I'm confused whether you want to support the game or not. Again, you dont have to get everything instantly (not even for cash) and you dont

have to get everything for cash either

. You act like you have to slap $350 on the counter with no other choice.

Over the years I've spent both money on buying gems

and

converting gold->gems.

Yes I want to support the game, but I am only willing to buy so many overpriced things and spend so much on what at the end of the day is a game and virtual items. I want the game to be successful but I just fear with some of the recent gemstore additions it may drive people away.

[kharmin.7683]

@Floppy.4936 said:

Yes I want to support the game, but I am only willing to buy so many overpriced things and spend so much on what at the end of the day is a game and virtual items. I want the game to be successful but I just fear with some of the recent gemstore additions it may drive people away.A valid fear for sure, but one Anet is surely looking at. Their shareholders would certainly be paying attention.

[Kaida.1478]

The gems you buy with gold are gems people bought from anet with cash and are selling to other players, anet are not fabricating gems for your gold. This is why its called exchange and the price fluctuates.

Tldr if you buy gems with gold someone else gave them hem money on your behalf, and they get your gold (minus tax)