DPS meter policy needs to be revised

[Coconut.7082]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:I am thinking you also may be missing Khels point.. its not about the data .. its about allowing a 3rd party application to automatically collect and monitor the players data regardless of whether ANET already have it, require it. No request for consent has ever been put to players, it has just become opensource open use policy and that doesn't sit well.If all the info is readily available in game why is ARC DPS required.. or is it that it can sort through all the data logs and make other players data specifically visible to a wider audience for everyone to see and grief/abuse if they want.. in which case there will always be an argument about its legitimacy imo.

Personally I don't give a rats about my DPS.. I am no min maxer, I play the way I want and if others want to kick me cos they can see I am putting out 10dps less than he/she is then great do so and let those numpties play with themselves. I come to GW2 to get away from working life and drama.But ANET changing their policy to allow ARCDPS to run around uncontrolled and without the permiss of others in group to monitor them is bad practice and needs looking at properly imo, but that won't happen we know.

1) It's not collecting data, it's parsing data there's a difference. It's public data and is readily available to everyone2) It's not required, It's optional and provides the data in a format that's easier to digest and more accurate than the ways you could previously do it.3) The policy never changed. We've always been able to use third party tools and UI's. What changed was the public stance towards them confirming that people will not be banned for using them

It's parsing data that anet allowed him to do but it's possible for this app to read and show other data, like gearcheck options. What guarantee do I have that at some point this tool is not going to steal other information? This is why Anet needs to make sure any account needs to consent to share its data with dps meter of other people or acknowledge they take responsibility for damage caused by this tool. This is also about situation when I am not using it personally but I have no power to block it being used against me either.

So your entire argument boils down to a slippery slope based on your ill-informed state ?

I suggest you as Chris Cleary in depth about this via email as i'm sure he'll be more than capable of explaining why what you just said is unfounded and comes from being an under informed user.

If this was true, ArenaNet would not be afraid of acknowledging responsibility and support for accounts that are on risk of being monitored against their will by any player in game.

Anyway, thank you for participating and sharing opinions.

Really ?

Hyperbole doesn't help your cause. No one is being monitored by any player against their will.You the user agreed by playing the game and accepting the terms of service / user agreement that Anet will protect your private data (Real Name, Credit Card, Location etc...) all digital information created by playing is public.

Right now they currently do not allow, although physically possible gear checks to occur and if you find a non-complaint tool report it to Chris so they can reverse engineer it if needed and shut it down or take the legal approach and issue Cease and Desists

This doesn't prevent damage to be done, it only allows them to react after data is stolen.

You see, no-one is going to take you seriously if you keep saying stuff like "monitor my account", which is clearly wording carefully chosen to inflate the matter.

Is this a "what if" post now? What will happen if in some hypothetical time Arc will get more "features"?If that's the case, let me direct you to some more potential issues:What happens if ReShade get "features" that can "monitor your account"?What happens if TaCO "features" that can "monitor your account"?What happens if an Anet employee goes rouge and decides to leak your DPS values all over the internet?

The problem is on a much larger scale than you thought! Puts on tin fol hat

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Joxer.6024 said:You all are missing a very important point. ANET can do whatever they wish with what you do in THEIR GAME, to which you do not pay to play. The data the OP is so worried about is nothing really, and no access to your account can be made in any way. As it has been mentioned, its all data, generated by what we do, in their game, period.I for one don't mind the dps meters as I like to know if I am sucking and where I can improve. Is it abused, of course, but what isn't in this day and age? Come, if it wasn't meters it was your build, or your class. How many Necros got kicked just being a Necro? Or Engi, with no meter involved? So yea, let dead dogs lie guys. I would actually love to see more add-ons in this game, UI and other bits, target frames, etc. I also come from WOW where that stuff is almost, n is, a necessity.But this wont stop for one reason, and its a scary one these days. To many people feel they have the right to complain about ANYTHING. The days of being kind and friendly and just getting on with life are gone sadly. So just pew pew better and as one mentioned.....get gud!

yep wow is a great example of how horribly wrong things can go if left unchecked. join ANY pug raid and see first hand, its an anti social Cesspit. Then theres addons that show progress meters on screen to tell you exatly when to jump and switch target etc etc. GW needs that kind of playstyle like a hole in the head.

[Joxer.6024]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Joxer.6024 said:You all are missing a very important point. ANET can do whatever they wish with what you do in THEIR GAME, to which you do not pay to play. The data the OP is so worried about is nothing really, and no access to your account can be made in any way. As it has been mentioned, its all data, generated by what we do, in their game, period.I for one don't mind the dps meters as I like to know if I am sucking and where I can improve. Is it abused, of course, but what isn't in this day and age? Come, if it wasn't meters it was your build, or your class. How many Necros got kicked just being a Necro? Or Engi, with no meter involved? So yea, let dead dogs lie guys. I would actually love to see more add-ons in this game, UI and other bits, target frames, etc. I also come from WOW where that stuff is almost, n is, a necessity.But this wont stop for one reason, and its a scary one these days. To many people feel they have the right to complain about ANYTHING. The days of being kind and friendly and just getting on with life are gone sadly. So just pew pew better and as one mentioned.....get gud!

yep wow is a great example of how horribly wrong things can go if left unchecked. join ANY pug raid and see first hand, its an anti social Cesspit. Then theres addons that show progress meters on screen to tell you exatly when to jump and switch target etc etc. GW needs that kind of playstyle like a hole in the head.

Yea, I'll be the first to say it ruined me for games like this. Became way to dependant on the addons to a point where you felt you couldn't play if you didn't have certain ones. If anything, would love the targeting in this game fixed, then I'm laughing. Another carry over from WOW and those addons is clicking, and man does it make this game a challenge!

[Joxer.6024]

Something just dawned on me...(I'm old, takes me a while) in what the OP and others might be getting at. Being "called out" due to the dps meters is in a way a form of bullying, and no one likes a bully, no one. And its not cool. That could be how these people feel when they are kicked and called and all that, as it would make someone feel bad if they didn't have a thick raiding skin or just didn't care.So with that I get it, if that's the case. But you cant blame the meters, its the people. And sadly that isn't going to go away, in any MMO. You will have your jerks regardless of meters or builds or classes. How many of you pvp? I don't, for the simple reason I don't like the toxic behaviour ,just not fun.What this equates to is the meters wont go away nor will the bullies, we just have to make better choices with whom we run with and what we do.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@"Chris Cleary.8017" said:Since this thread has really exploded, and there seems to be some possible misunderstanding about privacy here, I'll comment.

The current implementation of DPS meters is nothing more than a re-presentation of information already being transmitted by the game server to all clients in the reporting radius. Combat data does not have player ownership as it is being generated by the game server and then transmitted in order to update the status of the world state.

Essentially since the server is running a calculation/simulation based on actions by all the clients in the area, it owns the subsequent reporting of all calculations both literally and legally.

This is different for situations like chat, where there is no impact or simulation necessary and essentially is a forwarding service that the server is simply handling the reporting of the client action.

Regional laws change, if at some point change is required, we will revisit it at that time. I would suggest visiting the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement if you are unsure of anything privacy related for Guild Wars 2.

Thank you that you found your time to look into this thread and respond.

First of all,

it's never been my intention to make this thread into legal case

. People are passionate about dps meter topic, for both sides of the discussion, yet my motivations to create this thread are not about making this "court case". The fact that legal terms and definitions appeared pushed by other players amazed me probably as much as you.

This is the case not only of privacy, but also security, choice, respect and fair ground for all the players

. Your current policy states that every player can use a 3rd party app that translates visual, yet not direct information from game client into direct number also associating it with my account. This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge that another player is monitoring my activity in game.

I think this is totally out of place that you force all players in game to expect that every time they join a group, they are have to be assuming anyone can be monitoring them

. ArcDPS is not part of the game, it's 3rd party tool. We never agreed to anything related to deltaconnected in User Agreement. Your answer is that "you join the party, you agree to be monitored". Well, no.

This is very wide and unfair approach. ArcDPS is not part of the game, is not required for game integrity or content completion. You should not require me to accept this tool automatically when joining the group when at the same time ArenaNet takes no responsibility for any problems caused by this tool

. I think this is also out of place that you now gate your content with the premise of agreeing to using this tool.

This needs to be reviewed and changed ASAP.

Possible solutions are:

1. Changing the policy to state that sharing any information using 3rd party tools is possible only if player consents. This may be applied not only to current dps meters but make way to create gear inspection tool in the future.
2. Acknowledging that ArenaNet takes responsibility for any problems approved 3rd party tools may cause and help players with consequences.

I hope you take this into consideration and discuss this case with your team. Currently you put player on unfair ground, gratifying a minority of passionate players over the rest of community.

---

Since it's impossible to answer to everyone here directly, I would like to make a general response.

I am not against DPS meters. I am against their current implementation and ArenaNet's policy.

Unfortunately there are people who can't get over their personal bias and participate in the disscusion on healthy terms. To those who understand what my concerns are, no matter if you agree with me or not, thank you for reasonable approach and good talk we have here.

Also,

I respect that every group has power to make any requirement for players joining them

. But this is unfair situation that one group of players,

those using dps meters, have all the power to verify their request, while people who are not interested in these tools can only hope that people joining them are not using this tool

. This is why players are currently segregated on unfair terms because of the policy.

Oh cheesus, just get over it already. You got an official statement that more or less said "meters are fine as they are" and you keep on posting demands? You're aware you're not owning the game, right? You're aware you have no legal, moral or any other rights to demand anything?

[Cyninja.2954]

@Paladine.6082 said:

@Chris Cleary.8017 said:Since this thread has really exploded, and there seems to be some possible misunderstanding about privacy here, I'll comment.

The current implementation of DPS meters is nothing more than a re-presentation of information already being transmitted by the game server to all clients in the reporting radius. Combat data does not have player ownership as it is being generated by the game server and then transmitted in order to update the status of the world state.

Essentially since the server is running a calculation/simulation based on actions by all the clients in the area, it owns the subsequent reporting of all calculations both literally and legally.

This is different for situations like chat, where there is no impact or simulation necessary and essentially is a forwarding service that the server is simply handling the reporting of the client action.

Regional laws change, if at some point change is required, we will revisit it at that time. I would suggest visiting the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement if you are unsure of anything privacy related for Guild Wars 2.

Are you a lawyer and if not is this an official position you have been asked to publish from the legal team?

I ask because I wrote an article on this yesterday which has been widely distributed in legal circles and experts on data protection/privacy and there is 100% agreement with my points (from regulators who have commented as well). Any information relating to behaviour of a person (irrespective of where or how that data is generated) is legally classed as personal data under EU law - this is not even a case of stretching interpretation - behavioural data is explicitly written into EU law as qualifying as personal data. Combat data is absolutely generated as a result of a person's behaviour and is therefore, without question, legally defined as personal data.

It is not your place to determine what is or what is not personal data - that is a matter established by law, laws which you as a company are obliged to follow or face the penalties provided for not following.

Also under the law User Agreements, End User License Agreements, Terms and Conditions etc. are not legally permitted to be used to relay information on privacy and data protection - a specific privacy notice is required - I suggest you have your legal team read the General Data Protection Regulation, because they clearly haven't.

So if you are not a lawyer or relaying the information at the request of the legal team, I would respectfully request that you provide me with the official contact information for your legal team so I can discuss this further with them. If you are a lawyer or member of the legal team, please contact me via private message so we can continue discussion on a more formal (and less toxic) basis.

I stopped engaging with this thread because frankly the responses were toxic and utterly unqualified to comment, but it is an issue I will be raising in Brussels next week and given the wide agreement from the legal community I will likely file a test case as well at some point in the near future.

And to everyone else, no I will not be engaging any further in this thread, so save your fingers and don't bother trying to bait me :)

I look forward to the results of you bringing this up.

I'm sure if there is any traction we will soon be seeing adjustments to arenanets Terms of Service to which we have to agree. That's just about the only thing which will happen. Since the sharing of this information is a technical requirement of how the MMO works (the sharing of data between client and server) there is also no way around it.

I haven't seen Burssels interveen with facebook or google on issues of personal data and behavior (which are grossly bigger than an online video game) so I sincerely doubt people will care about an online video game. I have been wrong in the past so I'm sure you'll be able to suprise me.

On that note, I look forward on how your colleagues interact with you after they realise your passion for video games and topics you bring up. Here I was under the impression Brussels actually had more important problems to deal with at the moment, mainly keeping the European Union together.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:I am thinking you also may be missing Khels point.. its not about the data .. its about allowing a 3rd party application to automatically collect and monitor the players data regardless of whether ANET already have it, require it. No request for consent has ever been put to players, it has just become opensource open use policy and that doesn't sit well.If all the info is readily available in game why is ARC DPS required.. or is it that it can sort through all the data logs and make other players data specifically visible to a wider audience for everyone to see and grief/abuse if they want.. in which case there will always be an argument about its legitimacy imo.

Personally I don't give a rats about my DPS.. I am no min maxer, I play the way I want and if others want to kick me cos they can see I am putting out 10dps less than he/she is then great do so and let those numpties play with themselves. I come to GW2 to get away from working life and drama.But ANET changing their policy to allow ARCDPS to run around uncontrolled and without the permiss of others in group to monitor them is bad practice and needs looking at properly imo, but that won't happen we know.

1) It's not collecting data, it's parsing data there's a difference. It's public data and is readily available to everyone2) It's not required, It's optional and provides the data in a format that's easier to digest and more accurate than the ways you could previously do it.3) The policy never changed. We've always been able to use third party tools and UI's. What changed was the public stance towards them confirming that people will not be banned for using them

It's parsing data that anet allowed him to do but it's possible for this app to read and show other data, like gearcheck options. What guarantee do I have that at some point this tool is not going to steal other information? This is why Anet needs to make sure any account needs to consent to share its data with dps meter of other people or acknowledge they take responsibility for damage caused by this tool. This is also about situation when I am not using it personally but I have no power to block it being used against me either.

What a load of BS. What information do you think it can "steal" from you? ArcDPS, unlike BGDM, doesn't have its own networking. Meaning it can only read information passed from the game server to the client. Unless you're questioning the security of the game protocols, you have no valid reasons to worry. And if you do, your line of attack is wrong - it has nothing to do with the dps meters themselves, it only concerns the game protocols. If anything, your attack should have been directed toward the meter that features a separate networking. But no, that's exactly what you want. This sort of inconsistency undermines any credibility you might had and makes me question your motives heavily.

[Aenaos.8160]

From what I understand,the meter is not getting data directly from your client,or in any way interacting with your client.The meter is getting publicly available data from the server.This data does not belong to you or your client but to the server,and is already beingbroadcast to all other clients affected by the combat actions of your client,as the dataof all other clients affecting yours,is being broadcast to your client.This applies in cases where you don't have the meter installed,but other players in your group do.

And 3rd party software does not affect you or your PC,unless you install it on your machine,in which case you assume responsibility for any problems that may or may not be caused by it,which isthe same rule that applies to all MMOs that allow 3rd party programs to be downloaded and used by theplayers.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

[Shonex.5327]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

[Anzriel.1398]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

Third party user agreement covers things like arcdps iirc, but what he is saying is that noone can steal something that isn't truly yours. Data on things such as dps are public, meaning it is not an issue of privacy. You seem to approach it as if someone is taking something from you, he's saying data on damage in a raid/fractal is public, therefor it is not something that needs your consent, since it does not belong to you.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Everyone knows combat log is inaccurate and it was always brought up when people asked for dps meters in the first place.

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Everyone knows combat log is inaccurate and it was always brought up when people asked for dps meters in the first place.

Where do you imagine the combat data read by arc comes from? Neptune? :lol:

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Everyone knows combat log is inaccurate and it was always brought up when people asked for dps meters in the first place.

Where do you imagine the combat data read by arc comes from? Neptune? :lol:

ArcDPS reads game memory, which means it's literally a hack tool, and gives you data you are unable to read using game client.

[Shonex.5327]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Wrong, in combat log you wont see data from other players, just from you or [damage] to you

[Feanor.2358]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Everyone knows combat log is inaccurate and it was always brought up when people asked for dps meters in the first place.

Where do you imagine the combat data read by arc comes from? Neptune? :lol:

ArcDPS reads game memory, which means it's literally a hack tool, and gives you data you are unable to read using game client.

Reading game memory doesn't mean it's giving information you can't read in the game client. You're wrong, and you can. It also doesn't magically give it access to sensitive data originating from your own client. There's even an official statement in this thread:

@Chris Cleary.8017 said:The current implementation of DPS meters is nothing more than a re-presentation of information already being transmitted by the game server to all clients in the reporting radius.

Meaning everything you're basing your demands is false.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Everyone knows combat log is inaccurate and it was always brought up when people asked for dps meters in the first place.

Where do you imagine the combat data read by arc comes from? Neptune? :lol:

ArcDPS reads game memory, which means it's literally a hack tool, and gives you data you are unable to read using game client.

In that case, what you are actually complaining about is the fact that arenanet is not giving us an all inclusive ingame combat log but withholds information from the player.Or more exact, you are happy with them not providing an all inclusive tool and are complaining about the fact that they are tolerating that 3rd party software provides a concise overview of information which has been hiden from a players view so far.

I agree, we should be less reliant on 3rd party software and have arenanet provide us an ingame combat damage tool which they design and provide.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Wrong, in combat log you wont see data from other players, just from you or [damage] to you

Exactly this! Thank you!

[MrRuin.9740]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:Possible solutions are:

1. Changing the policy to state that sharing any information using 3rd party tools is possible only if player consents.
2. Acknowledging that ArenaNet takes responsibility for any problems approved 3rd party tools may cause and help players with consequences.

Where's option 3, where the agreement states that dps and other non-identifying information is shared in the background between clients and can be seen via 3rd party tools? Funny how that one that doesn't suit your own needs was left off. This information is being shared with other clients, whether ARCdps is installed or not. Which should be a problem for you, if this were truly about privacy. Sorry, I get you're coming at this from an angle of privacy, but it's really hard to believe that is the issue here. There's nothing identifying or personal being shared and it's information already being sent to those clients. It seems like the equivalent of someone knowing how fast you're driving on the highway via a speed radar displaying it is a violation of your privacy. Well, no. It isn't.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

@MrRuin.9740 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

Possible solutions are:

1. Changing the policy to state that sharing any information using 3rd party tools is possible only if player consents.
2. Acknowledging that ArenaNet takes responsibility for any problems approved 3rd party tools may cause and help players with consequences.

Where's option 3, where the agreement states that dps and other non-identifying information is shared in the background between clients and can be seen via 3rd party tools? Funny how that one that doesn't suit your own needs was left off. This information is being shared with other clients, whether ARCdps is installed or not. Which should be a problem for you, if this were truly about privacy. Sorry, I get you're coming at this from an angle of privacy, but it's really hard to believe that is the issue here. There's nothing identifying or personal being shared and it's information already being sent to those clients. It seems like the equivalent of someone knowing how fast you're driving on the highway via a speed radar displaying it is a violation of your privacy. Well, no. It isn't.

This statement would solve nothing because it still doesn't maket ArenaNet responsible for any possible harm done by such tools.

[Rhanoa.3960]

@MrRuin.9740 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

Possible solutions are:

1. Changing the policy to state that sharing any information using 3rd party tools is possible only if player consents.
2. Acknowledging that ArenaNet takes responsibility for any problems approved 3rd party tools may cause and help players with consequences.

Where's option 3, where the agreement states that dps and other non-identifying information is shared in the background between clients and can be seen via 3rd party tools? Funny how that one that doesn't suit your own needs was left off. This information is being shared with other clients, whether ARCdps is installed or not. Which should be a problem for you, if this were truly about privacy. Sorry, I get you're coming at this from an angle of privacy, but it's really hard to believe that is the issue here. There's nothing identifying or personal being shared and it's information already being sent to those clients. It seems like the equivalent of someone knowing how fast you're driving on the highway via a speed radar displaying it is a violation of your privacy. Well, no. It isn't.

3rd Option:Performance IncentiveYou want to set expectations on Performance in a VIDEO GAME Folks should expect something in return as well.

• Gem Store gift items of 500 gems + or - depending on the content
• 40 Ectos worth up to 10g per Boss fight (subjected to market value)
• Items worth up to 10g per Boss Fight (subjected to market value)
• 10g per boss

[Cyninja.2954]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Shonex.5327 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Kheldorn.5123 said:...This app can be used to monitor my account without my consent or even knowledge...You give consent when you accepted the EULA/Privacy Policy when you installed and everytime you log in. If you cannot deal with that, then you should uninstall.

The info is already public. Just like you can't complain about someone taking your photo when you are in public, you cannot complain about public information being arranged in a format that is easier to read.

arcdps and deltaconnected are not parts of GW2 User Agreement

And they are not part of what arenanet is responsible for monitoring wise. You can't spin this and make them liable only because they officiall tolerate these programs.

The data they use is already publicly available, so good luck on that front too.

How is it publicly available? Would you be able to tell how much dps some player in your party did without that tool? I'd like to see you try, would be fun :)

It's called a combat log, go read it.

Wrong, in combat log you wont see data from other players, just from you or [damage] to you

Exactly this! Thank you!

Data being not visible does not mean it's not there or transmitted to your client. If you close your eyes, the world doesn't stop to exist only because your eyes have stoped transmitting information to your brain.

It is correct though that some of this information is not as easily visible without a 3rd party software. Arenanet have given their consent in this data getting used and Chris Cleary has expanded upon this earlier.

I do believe having an inhouse combat and damage meter would be of benefit. That way this greyzone can be closed and arenanet can provide us with all the data they see fit for players to use.