The Condition Battle

[jsp.6912]

@Tazer.2157 said:How can we have a power meta when there last season was condi meta and we have had no balance patches in between.

condi meta in your dream maybe

[kraai.7265]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

[Leonidrex.5649]

@kraai.7265 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

thats because condi players are stuck at low ranks and power builds rise higher, the higher you go the more power builds you will face

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

thats because condi players are stuck at low ranks and power builds rise higher, the higher you go the more power builds you will face

Also the higher you go, the better people get. The better people get the better they are at handling conditions. The better they get at handling conditions the less effective conditions are. The less effective conditions are the better power is compared.

[kraai.7265]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

thats because condi players are stuck at low ranks and power builds rise higher, the higher you go the more power builds you will face

I play at gold 3/plat 1 lvl, what are you even talking about?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

thats because condi players are stuck at low ranks and power builds rise higher, the higher you go the more power builds you will face

I play at gold 3/plat 1 lvl, what are you even talking about?

about plat 2/3 and ATEU btw, I heard on NA people play condi and think its good but NA is NA

[kraai.7265]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@kraai.7265 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:at this point you they can kitten remove every single condition from the game, so you all people shut the kitten up about whining for once.they you will have the bunker meta that you ohhh soo desire, but who am I kidding, you people that dont bother to learn will instantly quit and people that actually give a kitten about the game will be left to deal with the kitten

OH please! give me plain bunker meta, over this piece of trash bunker condi meta we are living in. Are you really saying you prefer condi as it is? congrats, it's the first time i've read something like it in my 5 years playingn -.-

It's a power meta right now and I don't have an issue with condi. Are you serious?

Thats what i keep hearing, yet all i encounter are, condi bunk rangers, condi necros, condi thieves, condi mirages and condi bunk rev, and the only power builds I see are bunk holos, bunk FB and maybe weavers sometimes. I wouldn't call it a power meta..

thats because condi players are stuck at low ranks and power builds rise higher, the higher you go the more power builds you will face

I play at gold 3/plat 1 lvl, what are you even talking about?

about plat 2/3 and ATEU btw, I heard on NA people play condi and think its good but NA is NA

Well I play in NA, and idk how things work in EU, but to reach plat 2 in NA, you MUST win trade, or abuse the system somehow, actully no more than 5% of pvp population reaches that rank, and most of them are well known scammers, who have been spotted and exposed long ago but anet doesn't care, I belive something like it hppens in EU but in legendary. Yet I might be wrong about that.

About handling conditions, I have no problem with them, using cleanses, making builds against it, etc. I've never even said I was struggling against those build, but people in this forum love to asume you are bad just because you say anything they don't agree with.

My point is not that this builds are overpowered, or abusive, I just belive they are boring AF, and make my game tedious, I belive current anet devs don't know a thing about the philosophy behind core gw2, and are just making wild changes that are destroying the fun aspect of the game, specially when it comes to condi and or bunker builds.

I can compete against them, and if i've even enjoyed a bit the fucked up combat mechanics, i would just build against them and play, but it's close to impossible to enjoy the game at this rate.

And now you cleared that in EU there is actually a power meta i'm even thinking about switching to EU myself but idk if I could handle the 200+ ping.

[Teb.6980]

Sometimes it's such condi stacks... Even on power builds some weapon/kit hits condi component ticks like for 300% of the original hit... On power builds...

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Ghos.1326" said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

[sitarskee.5738]

Condi and power are both cancer. Roleplay is the only right way to play.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@kraai.7265from NA people that I know that moved to EU they always said NA is clown fiesta compared to EU.If you think condi damage is abusive, play against good reaper+tempest duo or holo roaming with DP thief, suprise suprise 1shot from stealth will be the default, mistform+glyph every time you down anything and condi builds dont live long enough to get their skills off, good tempest heals through your condis and cleanses them for you, and power is the only damage that sticks.Yes medicore/bad burn guard will do better then most medicore power builds. But properly played condi build vs power build is night and day.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Ghos.1326" said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ghos.1326 turns out standing melee range against melee class with medicore mobility as ranged class with amazing mobility can be detrimental to your health.PS ranger was close to useless

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

[Ghos.1326]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Ghos.1326 turns out standing melee range against melee class with medicore mobility as ranged class with amazing mobility can be detrimental to your health.PS ranger was close to useless

I agree, that ranger didn't do too much to kite away the attacks from the video poster. As well, ele's mobility is nothing to laugh at. it's not thief level mobility and ranger certainly has some as well, however ele does a decent job sticking to targets with some of their skills, though if the ranger utilized its mobility better it could have avoided the magma armor. But ele does have a couple ports if i'm not mistaken, and some pretty good swiftness uptimes as well, and a leap (maybe more than one).

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Ghos.1326 turns out standing melee range against melee class with medicore mobility as ranged class with amazing mobility can be detrimental to your health.PS ranger was close to useless

I agree, that ranger didn't do too much to kite away the attacks from the video poster. As well, ele's mobility is nothing to laugh at. it's not thief level mobility and ranger certainly has some as well, however ele does a decent job sticking to targets with some of their skills, though if the ranger utilized its mobility better it could have avoided the magma armor. But ele does have a couple ports if i'm not mistaken, and some pretty good swiftness uptimes as well, and a leap (maybe more than one).

depends on the build, ele sure can take that lightning TP but the build in question didnt. Ele has SOME mbility but its nothing that could close ~900 range gap and even if they do they can do it again and again if they just were shooting him down/nading him down. And its baffling to me why would the ranger even switch to GS and run into fire weaver like that -.-

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

[Bazsi.2734]

Oh what a refreshing thread. I am so bored of playing power builds, fighting power builds both in ranked and unranked.

But at least in here we have a safespace. Condi is opressive. Condi is the worst problem this game has. Nerf conditon damage builds! They are out of control, no skill noob carrier builds that ruin the meta! Lower the max cap on burning, possibly to 0! We dont need bleeding and poison and torment all at once, having more than one condition on you at once is unfair! I'm outraged!

That felt good. Time to play some more power vs power only matches, those qualifiers won't finish themselves.

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

That won't work on me. watch the video again. as many times as you need to. :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

That won't work on me. watch the video again. as many times as you need to. :)

The fact is my opponents not only didn't die because of condi burst, they weren't even pressured by condi damage at all. Condi did exactly what you seem to think it should: damage over time.

Further the reason I play glass hybrid is because it's very hard to pressure with condi alone. It's too easily countered. Is this not what you want?

Lastly, please show me where a stack limit on burning could have made a difference here. When they were in down state I guess?

Cmon man. I love playing condi as glass hybrid. It's what condi whiners ask for. A stack limit on burning is just a stupid idea.

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

That won't work on me. watch the video again. as many times as you need to. :)

The fact is my opponents not only didn't die because of condi burst, they weren't even pressured by condi damage at all. Condi did exactly what you seem to think it should: damage over time.

Further the reason I play glass hybrid is because it's very hard to pressure with condi alone. It's too easily countered. Is this not what you want?

Lastly, please show me where a stack limit on burning could have made a difference here. When they were in down state I guess?

Cmon man. I love playing condi as glass hybrid. It's what condi whiners ask for. A stack limit on burning is just a stupid idea.

Yeah nope. condi pressure was a lot of the pressure, especially when bursting down that engineer with 7 stacks of burn and 11 stacks of bleed, ticking around 4k hp per second and over the course of 2 seconds was downed rather quickly because within his 6 seconds (more actually) waiting time to exit forge to clear 2-3 conditions, he was unable to clear those said conditions.I'm fairly confident you had trouble reading it before so I'll reiterate again: conditions should not be doing 1/3 of your health pool per second over the course of whatever time they remain on. period. period. and another period.P.S. period.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

That won't work on me. watch the video again. as many times as you need to. :)

The fact is my opponents not only didn't die because of condi burst, they weren't even pressured by condi damage at all. Condi did exactly what you seem to think it should: damage over time.

Further the reason I play glass hybrid is because it's very hard to pressure with condi alone. It's too easily countered. Is this not what you want?

Lastly, please show me where a stack limit on burning could have made a difference here. When they were in down state I guess?

Cmon man. I love playing condi as glass hybrid. It's what condi whiners ask for. A stack limit on burning is just a stupid idea.

Yeah nope. condi pressure was a lot of the pressure, especially when bursting down that engineer with 7 stacks of burn and 11 stacks of bleed, ticking around 4k hp per second and over the course of 2 seconds was downed rather quickly because within his 6 seconds (more actually) waiting time to exit forge to clear 2-3 conditions, he was unable to clear those said conditions.I'm fairly confident you had trouble reading it before so I'll reiterate again: conditions should not be doing 1/3 of your health pool per second over the course of whatever time they remain on. period. period. and another period.P.S. period.

So how much is too much? Worldly impacts for 12.5k, DH firing off ranged attacks for 9k? That's all good. But landing multiple skills over a few seconds and then having it deal 4k is too much?

So what do we cap it to? 1k?

[Ghos.1326]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Ghos.1326 said:What I am suggesting is this: take a step back in time where burning and poison was capped at only 1 stack (yet still hit pretty hard), and can be extended in duration for using other skills that also applied burning or poison. also, where other skills didn't apply stupid amounts of other conditions on you, and was truly a ramp up over time playstyle that was very rewarding to play if you played it right. This, I believe, was when condition damage was at its greatest moment in its lifetime in this game. And unironically, when it was the most FUN to play.Many of the changes that can occur to many of the professions currently can be very simple: cut down on stacks of certain conditions output per skill so that it doesn't feel super oppressive, and/or cut down on the uptime of a certain condition/s of a particular skill depending on how many stacks it actually does output (lower stacks output = longer uptime, higher = shorter). Or, take a step back and, for PvP and WvW only, cap burning and poison to 1 cap like before. These changes alone would put many condition builds that are currently overperforming into a more balanced state, without having to rework the entire skill, or even worse; change it. It could save a lot of time, resources, and energy balancing.

I generally do agree that certain conditions need to be capped in competitive modes specifically burn and poison.Also some traits still exist for certain professions that make certain conditions do 33% more damage than normal which is a rather LARGE (i wont call out which professions specifically we know which ones) boost considering how the nerf bat was slammed on power effectiveness not sure why those traits remain at such a large increase.

Some conditions are a bit overwhelming in comparison to power builds and having more sustain that their power counterparts really does make one go "ughh"

Take a look at this clip. Look at how much power damage is being dealt. The holosmith deals about 10k damage to me in the first 3 seconds of the fight. I attempt to counter-pressure by landing a stun, but the holosmith goes invuln and I take a 4.5k shot from the druid. The druid does take a 1k burn tick following the exchange, however. Yay condi!

Once the holosmith comes out of invuln, I land a polaric leap/flame expulsion for nearly 4k power damage. Condi is not really on the radar at this point. A few seconds later I land another 3k flame expulsion and burning breaks 1k on a tick again, this time against the holosmith. Again, yay condi! In the final second before the holosmith goes down he takes about 3.5k condi damage from combined bleeding and burning. But power damage did most of the work here.

On to the druid. He appears to have me on the run, but I am just slowly wearing down the druid's health mostly with a bunch of small <1k condi ticks and power hits. But now we're both low enough health we're susceptible to burst. The druid disengages, presumably to finish me off with CC+bow burst, so I LoS using the pillar and begin casting Gale so I land a stun as soon as I come into view. Apparently, the druid has no stunbreak available as I'm able to run over and down him with a pyrovortex.

Only once during this fight did burning ever break 2k damage on an enemy that wasn't already downed. Meanwhile, I'm dealing more of my damage from power even though I'm actually running the same old sw/f condi build from the pre-2/25 meta. The difference is that I run a glass hybrid amulet (grieving in this case), precisely because condi feels so anemic when you're dealing with power bursts that chunk 1/3-1/2 of your health in an instant!

What else do you guys really need to see here? Power damage is massive and threatening on both sides here, while condi is dealing light damage over time. Capping burn stacks would have done absolutely nothing in this fight. My opponents died playing hug the weaver, but neither of them took anything that could be considered a burst from condition damage.

Meanwhile fails to mention that the weaver destroyed both the holosmith and the druid with 7-9 stacks of burning and 11 stacks of bleed, within 2 seconds, yet complains about power damage being too high (which in some instances i definitely agree), despite that weaver not going down when fighting both one after the other, and actually securing 2 kills in the process.The only thing this does is prove me right. Thanks for that clip man, appreciate it.

If you can't properly interpret what's happening in a video even when it's explained blow by blow I guess all I can say is... Have fun losing in silver?

Good thing I placed rank 69 on the same non meta build I've been playing for a while now. So much for losing in silver.Must be hard creating a video and still not being able to properly tell the audience what exactly was going on the whole time.That engi that you said was mostly brought down with power damage, was a lie. 2.5k burn ticks until most of the burn went away. When the engi leaped on you to do a leap corona burst, you put 2 stacks of burn on him to bring him back up to 3 most likely due to the magma armor skill, then that burst which you said was 4k (looked like a 2.9 to me, watched in HD and everything) put another 3 stacks on him. meanwhile he's still in range to get burn stacks from the magma armor for being in range of you so he climbs to 7, and ends in that 7 stacks of burn with 11 stacks of bleed. on top of it. power didn't do much of the pressure, burn and bleed did. lets do some math.1100 (from bleed) + 2700 (from burn) gives you close to 4k condi damage per tick, either that or my math is off. highly doubt it though, addition is easy. biggest power burst you did that i have seen was 2.9k.As well, you're using grieving. That amulet gives you 1000 power, 1000 condi damage, 500 precision and 500 feroc, so of course your damage bursts are going to be a little high as well. It's also explaining why you're taking a lot more power damage too (although again, I will say that some power damage on some things is a bit too high and should be brought down some due to factors like cooldown, attack speed, etc). So you burst down the engi using condition damage with 2 conditions, both bleed and burn. When condition damage is supposed to be slow damage over time.After that engi was downed, you were able to put another burn burst onto his downed body, bringing your burn stacks on him all the way up to around 13, netting you 5.4k burn damage per tick.With the druid, I seen much of the same thing. some 2.9k bursts from power damage, but mostly you had him pressured with conditions. He cleared conditions often but you were able to put them right back on him. Thanks to the added power and crit damage from grieving, you were able to keep him pressured with both, but your burn stacks was what really wittled him down, from what i seen keeping a steady 2-3 burns on him minimum (besides near beginning and end when you were kiting toward the pillar). at the end, you kept a 7+ bleeds and 3-5 burns, with some added power damage.Needless to say? one condition bursting 2.5k+ having the ability to pile on you as easy as something like bleed, a lower damage per stack condition, is what I have been talking here in hopes of seeing condition damage be put in a place design-wise where it was healthier and less burst oriented.Not sure how many times I must reiterate as well, but some things in regards to power damage still need adjusting down, but condition damage is supposed to be a damage over time mechanic, not 1/3 of your health done over a second's time mechanic. The small power damage that accompanies condition damage also adds on to the condition damage, just noting in case you weren't aware.And nice trying to insult me with that silver comment, i'd insult you back that would send you back to where your place is but someone might cry, get all hurt, and report me because anet likes to punish one and not the other, despite their insults being rather apparent.

If you're rank 69 then I don't need to explain to you why your interpretation of what happened here is nonsense. But I especially enjoyed the part where you included the massive burn I was able to throw down once my opponents were downed. Extra credit on that one.

That won't work on me. watch the video again. as many times as you need to. :)

The fact is my opponents not only didn't die because of condi burst, they weren't even pressured by condi damage at all. Condi did exactly what you seem to think it should: damage over time.

Further the reason I play glass hybrid is because it's very hard to pressure with condi alone. It's too easily countered. Is this not what you want?

Lastly, please show me where a stack limit on burning could have made a difference here. When they were in down state I guess?

Cmon man. I love playing condi as glass hybrid. It's what condi whiners ask for. A stack limit on burning is just a stupid idea.

Yeah nope. condi pressure was a lot of the pressure, especially when bursting down that engineer with 7 stacks of burn and 11 stacks of bleed, ticking around 4k hp per second and over the course of 2 seconds was downed rather quickly because within his 6 seconds (more actually) waiting time to exit forge to clear 2-3 conditions, he was unable to clear those said conditions.I'm fairly confident you had trouble reading it before so I'll reiterate again: conditions should not be doing 1/3 of your health pool per second over the course of whatever time they remain on. period. period. and another period.P.S. period.

So how much is too much? Worldly impacts for 12.5k, DH firing off ranged attacks for 9k? That's all good. But landing multiple skills over a few seconds and then having it deal 4k is too much?

So what do we cap it to? 1k?

Proof you have trouble reading, as I've stated multiple times that power damage for some things is also way too high.With that, we can call this conversation over, unless you decide to wallow and continue with the nonsense. Nothing anyone says can get to you, but that's a you problem. Take care of that for future reference.