Reducing overall damage in WvW is a bad decision.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:unless the 10 player group are built to boon ball and surviovability to tankSo, the meta for every guild in existance?

even so, 10 vs 20 is a hard feat you cant do without a perfectly organized 10 players against a none perfectly organized 20 player. (assuming those 10 players can achieve that with current meta, which i doubt unless they get very lucky).the debate is not about if it is still possible to do it anyway. the problem is that it gets harder and harder which in the end promote less skilled bus gameplay over little raid guilds or roaming party vs large targets.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

+1

A larger group will never run out of damage compared to a smaller group. Lowering all damage only encourages more blobbing since smaller groups cannot pressure like they used to or deny rally. Turns out it's really hard to cleave 50k of down state health while the map blob has max rezzers on the guy.

[God.2708]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:+1

A larger group will never run out of damage compared to a smaller group. Lowering all damage only encourages more blobbing since smaller groups cannot pressure like they used to or deny rally. Turns out it's really hard to cleave 50k of down state health while the map blob has max rezzers on the guy.

Turns out you don't have a smaller group when the larger group just blasts you with all the damage you added to the game.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@God.2708 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:+1

A larger group will never run out of damage compared to a smaller group. Lowering all damage only encourages more blobbing since smaller groups cannot pressure like they used to or deny rally. Turns out it's really hard to cleave 50k of down state health while the map blob has max rezzers on the guy.

Turns out you don't have a smaller group when the larger group just blasts you with all the damage you added to the game.Bad logic, they'll do that anyway today by virtue of being larger. Big brain thoughts.

[Aeolus.3615]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:unless the 10 player group are built to boon ball and surviovability to tankSo, the meta for every guild in existance?

even so, 10 vs 20 is a hard feat you cant do without a perfectly organized 10 players against a none perfectly organized 20 player. (assuming those 10 players can achieve that with current meta, which i doubt unless they get very lucky).the debate is not about if it is still possible to do it anyway. the problem is that it gets harder and harder which in the end promote less skilled bus gameplay over little raid guilds or roaming party vs large targets.

for the 10 to win against 20, thoe 10 need to be high dps wich is still possible and those 20 are the boon ball meta wanabies hope to get carried.... this is also the reason boon bal meta used 2-3 banners since thats where at least half of the damage cames from.

Those 10 need to be somewhat mobile, range with lots of CC or a decent figthing group with range and melee composition with dps and active healiing abilities, rather than try to sustain stuff.

As i said before... damage reducing it was a necessary evil, cause Anet cared in making bad players overperforming with gimmicks gameplay than anything else, now that one part has been taken care off other gimmicks where make players overperforming started to show up, like banners for example, conditiosn in small scale some are actually to strong since they can burst tick something that should not be happening.

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@steki.1478 said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@steki.1478 said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@steki.1478 said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@steki.1478 said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw. you earn nothing for being first or last. so most ppl play WvW for fun more than for reward. objectives are just a pretext to seek some fight or be proud of taking a structure from the enemy.

[Ultramex.1506]

Oh wow i really enjoy dying in 5 secs because i don't have superhuman reflex even with tanky build, wow so much fun, please Anet! Listen to this person and crank up the damage so now people can die by bumping into other.

[ASP.8093]

I got hit for 6.5k by a Putrid Mark yesterday.

WvW damage is fine as-is.

[Svarty.8019]

@"Ultramex.1506" said:Oh wow i really enjoy dying in 5 secs because i don't have superhuman reflex even with tanky build, wow so much fun, please Anet! Listen to this person and crank up the damage so now people can die by bumping into other.

Even with the damage nerf, you I can't beat twitchy players. The game's creators emphasised "Skill" instead of FUN. What a massive mistake THAT was.

Now skilled players complain because they know that anything that doesn't involve twitchy "Skill"s will get destroyed by the developers. All the whiners have to do it state that skill isn't involved and poof there goes the FUN.

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@steki.1478 said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw.

Again, that doesn't change what I said. WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score, EVEN if you believe you can't win or lose WvW (which is factually wrong since there is a score to prove who is wining ... but whatever)

But let's play this game you started ... if it's useless to win or lose in WvW ... then it doesn't matter if you can kill people and your whole complaint doesn't make sense right? If you just want to reduce WvW to 'killing people' then PVP is a much better 'killing people' game mode than WvW could ever be ... so what you should be doing if killing people matters this much to you is PVP, not WvW.

[Svarty.8019]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:gameplay should reward skillfull players.NO.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Svarty.8019 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:gameplay should reward skillfull players.NO.

in a fight, yes. otherwise no point in trying to become better. reward wise i can agree with you.also 'skill' in gw2 is very build dependent.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw.

Again, that doesn't change what I said. WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score, EVEN if you believe you can't win or lose WvW (which is factually wrong since there is a score to prove who is wining ... but whatever)

But let's play this game you started ... if it's useless to win or lose in WvW ... then it doesn't matter if you can kill people and your whole complaint doesn't make sense right? If you just want to reduce WvW to 'killing people' then PVP is a much better 'killing people' game mode than WvW could ever be ... so what you should be doing if killing people matters this much to you is PVP, not WvW.

there is several kind of players in WvW. but the main goal of even going to WvW is to kill other players. simply running around caping structure is incredibly boring if there is no fights. as the "fights" are the soul of WvW, wouldn't it be better to promote fair fights rather than accentuate the unfairness between large groupe and small groups? not to mention the unbalance between server population...

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw.

Again, that doesn't change what I said. WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score, EVEN if you believe you can't win or lose WvW (which is factually wrong since there is a score to prove who is wining ... but whatever)

But let's play this game you started ... if it's useless to win or lose in WvW ... then it doesn't matter if you can kill people and your whole complaint doesn't make sense right? If you just want to reduce WvW to 'killing people' then PVP is a much better 'killing people' game mode than WvW could ever be ... so what you should be doing if killing people matters this much to you is PVP, not WvW.

there is several kind of players in WvW. but the main goal of even going to WvW is to kill other players. simply running around caping structure is incredibly boring if there is no fights.

Being boring or not is irrelevant ... those are the kinds of activities that allow you to win WvW. ... and don't pretend you don't get fights if you do these things either ... that's dishonest. That's actually the POINT of the change because as players roam as a small group doing these things and they are going to get insta'ed ... they will likely be much LESS willing to do these things.

as the "fights" are the soul of WvW, wouldn't it be better to promote fair fights rather than accentuate the unfairness between large groupe and small groups? not to mention the unbalance between server population...

Don't pretend somehow we lost all this 'fairness'. Sure it's convenient for you to simply declare WVW is about killing players ... but it's way more than that and the changes to the game lean towards the strategic side of WvW ... as it should be in the first place. If you just want to kill players, PvP is the appropriate game mode.

Again ... if you just want to reduce WvW to killing people to justify your complaint, you have LOTS of explaining to do as to why there is such a prominent strategic element to it and why it should be ignored so you can insta players. You can't ... because WvW isn't primarily about killing people.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw.

Again, that doesn't change what I said. WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score, EVEN if you believe you can't win or lose WvW (which is factually wrong since there is a score to prove who is wining ... but whatever)

But let's play this game you started ... if it's useless to win or lose in WvW ... then it doesn't matter if you can kill people and your whole complaint doesn't make sense right? If you just want to reduce WvW to 'killing people' then PVP is a much better 'killing people' game mode than WvW could ever be ... so what you should be doing if killing people matters this much to you is PVP, not WvW.

there is several kind of players in WvW. but the main goal of even going to WvW is to kill other players. simply running around caping structure is incredibly boring if there is no fights.

Being boring or not is irrelevant ... those are the kinds of activities that allow you to win WvW. ... and don't pretend you don't get fights if you do these things either ... that's dishonest. That's actually the POINT of the change because as players roam as a small group doing these things and they are going to get insta'ed ... they will likely be much LESS willing to do these things.

as the "fights" are the soul of WvW, wouldn't it be better to promote fair fights rather than accentuate the unfairness between large groupe and small groups? not to mention the unbalance between server population...

Don't pretend somehow we lost all this 'fairness'. Sure it's convenient for you to simply declare WVW is about killing players ... but it's way more than that and the changes to the game lean towards the strategic side of WvW ... as it should be in the first place. If you just want to kill players, PvP is the appropriate game mode.

Again ... if you just want to reduce WvW to killing people to justify your complaint, you have LOTS of explaining to do as to why there is such a prominent strategic element to it and why it should be ignored so you can insta players. You can't ... because WvW isn't primarily about killing people.

i disagree with you. there is no use of caping structure for the sake of doing it. the adverse effect of lowering overall damage, again, is to promote bus gameplay in detriment of more interesting roaming and small scale fights. giving more advantage to the larger group is actually unhealthy to WvW. (which is why we got stab nerf, rally nerf to one enemy, max enemy hit by AOE on specific spells like scourge sand summon, etc...)the overall damage nerf was to easily town down the very bursty builds that could one shot you from nowhere. but those should have been addressed individually instead of just nerfing everything.take the nerf on CC damage. i find this a very good nerf! but some specific weapons or skills suffured greatly from this to the point of being cast aside by most people. (hammer war, rifle engi, engi mines, etc...).

the question is, should content be balanced toward large scale or small scale?

PS: ultimately, GW2 should be about fun. especially WvW where the rewards are lower than in PvP and PvE and winning or loosing don't matter at all.getting one shot from nowhere is no fun. but having to grind boonballs is even worst. losing 1v2 because you can't do enough damage is frustrating.of course, lowering overall damage could be alright if retaliation, protection, resistance, etc would be toned down (like scale with stats maybe? so you can't have berserker stats and get 33% damage reduction from protection at the same time?). but as things stands now, with all those buffs and survivability....downed state is also a big problem but thats not what this thread is about.

[Justine.6351]

Damage carrying bads but also damage blowing them up in return. Now it's damage carrying bads but also damage scaring them away to reset.

That's pretty much how I sum up the damage nerf gutting.Simply amazing improvement but hey at least now people will have 10 seconds longer to run to a safe space place. Oh wait...now instead of a single ganker now they just run you down as fast with 2 people and their ain't no way you punishing that in return cause they just tag team you while resetting.

Amazing game for small-scale, I wonder why so many experienced players left that scene...

[Junkpile.7439]

It's funny how you can't never find anybody in blob that actually take damage while they hit me like 8k. I don't really know why anet think that it's good idea whole blob have all boons on whole time.

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Why should combat be balanced around uneven encounters?

How does someone run away from the most mobile class in the game?

Protection duration and heals also got nerfed.

gameplay should reward skillfull players.

Actaully, the reward in WvW isn't about killing people, it's about the score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists.

in pvp you are rewarded for holding points. killing is only a secondary objective.and you know, you earn points by killing (more on stomping) in WvW too.

That doesn't change what I said ... WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score. If you want to be rewarded for killing people, that's why PVP exists. You get way more reward for killing people in PVP than WvW ... think about why that is.

It's reasonable to think that making people harder to kill is all part of that. The smart WvW players that want to win don't focus on kililng people. HUM ... why would that be? How does that connect with the change we are talking about? :pensive:

See here is my thinking ... if it's harder to kill people ... it's easier for people to get around and actually DO the things that allow you to win in WvW. It encourages smaller groups to break off, time their actions, create diversions ... kill the zerg game. It's called strategy and when you got situations were there is too much 1 shoting ... strategy becomes secondary to tactics of killing people. Anyways, it was a move in the right direction, especially if you understand why we have WvW in this game in the first place.

but it is useless to win or lose in wvw.

Again, that doesn't change what I said. WvW reward isn't about killing people, it's about the map score, EVEN if you believe you can't win or lose WvW (which is factually wrong since there is a score to prove who is wining ... but whatever)

But let's play this game you started ... if it's useless to win or lose in WvW ... then it doesn't matter if you can kill people and your whole complaint doesn't make sense right? If you just want to reduce WvW to 'killing people' then PVP is a much better 'killing people' game mode than WvW could ever be ... so what you should be doing if killing people matters this much to you is PVP, not WvW.

there is several kind of players in WvW. but the main goal of even going to WvW is to kill other players. simply running around caping structure is incredibly boring if there is no fights.

Being boring or not is irrelevant ... those are the kinds of activities that allow you to win WvW. ... and don't pretend you don't get fights if you do these things either ... that's dishonest. That's actually the POINT of the change because as players roam as a small group doing these things and they are going to get insta'ed ... they will likely be much LESS willing to do these things.

as the "fights" are the soul of WvW, wouldn't it be better to promote fair fights rather than accentuate the unfairness between large groupe and small groups? not to mention the unbalance between server population...

Don't pretend somehow we lost all this 'fairness'. Sure it's convenient for you to simply declare WVW is about killing players ... but it's way more than that and the changes to the game lean towards the strategic side of WvW ... as it should be in the first place. If you just want to kill players, PvP is the appropriate game mode.

Again ... if you just want to reduce WvW to killing people to justify your complaint, you have LOTS of explaining to do as to why there is such a prominent strategic element to it and why it should be ignored so you can insta players. You can't ... because WvW isn't primarily about killing people.

i disagree with you. there is no use of caping structure for the sake of doing it.

Except that's not true ... there IS a use to cap a structure ... to win. I mean, you can deny all you like that there isn't a way to 'win' WvW ... but that doesn't make much sense considering you can see there is a score and who is winning and know they are doing so by doing the things you are claiming are useless.

the adverse effect of lowering overall damage, again, is to promote bus gameplay in detriment of more interesting roaming and small scale fights.

Maybe ... no one is saying their isn't adverse effects to the changes ... but if you abandon your incorrect assumption that WvW is about fights and kililng people, then the changes to the game actually make sense from the perspective that Anet wants WvW to be more of a strategic game mode than a tactical one. Again ... if you want to reduce WvW to just killing people ... then you must explain the existence of the strategic approach to winning WvW ... not simply ignore it and claim it doesn't exist.

The conclusion that Anet has reduced damage on players to promote the strategic play is a reasonable and sensible one. Don't dismiss it because you are going to impose your own ideas of what WvW should be on the game. That just doesn't work.

[ASP.8093]

Seems more sensible to ask for a reduction in downed state hp or res rate than to complain that WvW is now unplayable because you need to pop 1 more cooldown to burst someone down from 100%, imo.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@Obtena.7952 said:Except that's not true ... there IS a use to cap a structure ... to win. I mean, you can deny all you like that there isn't a way to 'win' WvW ... but that doesn't make much sense considering you can see there is a score and who is winning and know they are doing so by doing the things you are claiming are useless.

Maybe ... no one is saying their isn't adverse effects to the changes ... but if you abandon your incorrect assumption that WvW is about fights and kililng people, then the changes to the game actually make sense from the perspective that Anet wants WvW to be more of a strategic game mode than a tactical one. Again ... if you want to reduce WvW to just killing people ... then you must explain the existence of the strategic approach to winning WvW ... not simply ignore it and claim it doesn't exist.

you don't get it. there is literraly no reward for winning. being 1rst or last means absolutely nothing.the only reason some fights just for the territory and the points is only for pride.playing for the server means nothing as there is no reward for doing so. the only reward left is fun. and buffing boonballs by reducing everyones damage is not fun.

because you may have not realised (but i did since WvW is my main gamemode and PvE is last) that as years pass, roaming, scouting and small scale fight (along with GvG) tend to disapear while bus are getting bigger. (duels too becomes more and more rare).

you know, if people would really care about getting the maximum points possible they would divid in smaller groups and capture a maximum of structures between 10min and 15min of the tick so the enemy would not be able to catpure them back before the tick ends while defending the rest of the time. but they don't do that. they just capture everything on their path to get some quick exp for the chest reward track until they get a fight. you even see whole bus targeting some poor 5 people running around, sometimes for hundreds of meters just to get to kill someone. players seek fights.

its just because capturing structure give the most exp for the reward chest and the most karma and whatever reward you get.while all those who came here for fighting and has good individual skill tend to leave the game.sure this is more true for low score servers (which often means low WvW pop too) than for the top 3.

do you know why the desert borderland is the most loved yet less played map? like it is always the last map to get a queue if it ever get one.because the map is so big, it takes longer to find peopel to fight so al lyou do is mostly capturing territory.and eternal battleground is the most played map despit most players prefering the alpine borderland because it is more compact and you fight more often. (and also becasue there is more often big bus fights.)

all this to say that, you are wrong. players come to WvW to fight. even if they like to mindlessly follow a bus to do some territory control. it is even more apparent with WvW guilds. they will never tell you that the guild is all about capturing structure. but about winning against other players, even outnumbered.

is WvW just a PvE map to you were everyone should just gang together in one massive bus to cap everything while avoiding the other bus?becasue that was EOTM. and it is dead now.

[ledernierrempart.6871]

@ASP.8093 said:Seems more sensible to ask for a reduction in downed state hp or res rate than to complain that WvW is now unplayable because you need to pop 1 more cooldown to burst someone down from 100%, imo.

never said it was unplayable. the thread only exist because the trend is to lower overall damage (which were already applied) and CMC said that WvW may know another overall damage reduction with reduced healing.i believe that this way of balancing WvW is not the right thing to do. perhaps reducing healing will be a good thing? who knows?

[Obtena.7952]

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Except that's not true ... there IS a use to cap a structure ... to win. I mean, you can deny all you like that there isn't a way to 'win' WvW ... but that doesn't make much sense considering you can see there is a score and who is winning and know they are doing so by doing the things you are claiming are useless.

Maybe ... no one is saying their isn't adverse effects to the changes ... but if you abandon your incorrect assumption that WvW is about fights and kililng people, then the changes to the game actually make sense from the perspective that Anet wants WvW to be more of a strategic game mode than a tactical one. Again ... if you want to reduce WvW to just killing people ... then you must explain the existence of the strategic approach to winning WvW ... not simply ignore it and claim it doesn't exist.

you don't get it. there is literraly no reward for winning.

That's not relevant to the discussion. Whether you think a reward exists or not doesn't change the fact that there IS a winning condition and it's clear that the game changes are favouring the side that plays a better strategic game to achieve that condition. Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean it's not following the intent of the WvW gamemode. Still not seeing you explain all the strategic elements and rewards for winning those elements even though you claim the purpose of WvW is mainly to kill players. You can't assume you understand what WvW should be better than Anet if you can't explain this.

@ledernierrempart.6871 said:players come to WvW to fight.

I can just imagine the contorted, confused faces on those players faces when the game changes to align with what Anet wants to offer players in WvW vs. what those players think it should be. Again ... WvW differentiates itself from PvP by NOT being focused on just fighting people. That's not an accident.