If you wanted to keep raids as a game mode, how would you increase participation?

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ... but the complaint is nonsense because there are many paths to get into raiding. The number of paths to get into raiding isn't a problem that if fixed, would bring enough people into raiding to justify the return of raids ... otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place because there are already many paths.

I also know that if you create a barrier to rewards, their isn't a reason to choose to do that content over content THEY already like doing for rewards they are satisfied with ... like how we already see with current raid implementation. You don't accomplish increasing participation in raids to justify their renewed development by having exclusive reward menus for THEY.

In all honesty, I'm perfectly OK with the current raid situation. The carrot of raid loot is no longer enticing for me and many people who have crafted all the Ascended gear they will ever need who can readily swap with build templates. It's misguided to think this is some ruse to getting easy legendary armor. Maybe 4 years ago, that would have been a valid concern ... now it's just a sad conspiracy theory.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ...

"Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them."Ok.

Or maybe it just doesn't fit your narrative so you throw everyone into the same bag because otherwise you might need to admit people proposing something different than "lege for easy mode" are actually trying to "save raids" despite you claiming otherwise multiple times before.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ...

"Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them."

Ok.

It's good you are OK with that ... because it's got nothing to do with speaking for people ... it's just a truth. There are LOTS of paths to get into raiding. That's not just some exclusive truth that only I can see either. It makes no sense to think yet another path will bring enough people into raids to justify their renewed development given the number of paths that currently exist already.

Again, seems to be you don't understand the topic of the thread. We aren't talking about getting a fractional increase in raid population. That isn't going to be enough.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ...

"Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them."

Ok.

It's good you are OK with that ... because it's got nothing to do with speaking for people ... it's just a truth. There are LOTS of paths to get into raiding. That's not just some exclusive truth that only I can see either. It makes no sense to think yet another will bring people into raids to justify their renewed development.

Well then if you're interested in something different than raids then loads of that content already exists. You don't need to pretend you're saving raids by changing them into something else and nobody asked for that.Anyways, if you're ok with the current state as you said above then not sure why you're here trying to influence lege acquisition instead of actual raids. Giving easly acquirable legendaries does nothing for "saving raids".

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ...

"Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them."

Ok.

It's good you are OK with that ... because it's got nothing to do with speaking for people ... it's just a truth. There are LOTS of paths to get into raiding. That's not just some exclusive truth that only I can see either. It makes no sense to think yet another will bring people into raids to justify their renewed development.

Well then if you're interested in something different than raids then loads of that content already exists.

True, but that's not the topic of the thread. We are talking about what we would change about raids to justify renewing their development.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:So it's your opinion that helping THEY with a thing they complained about is going to bring enough of THEY into raiding to justify bringing it back ... and this 'it' doesn't involve changing raids or the rewards they give. OK.

I mean, there are LOTS of things THEY complain about ... what makes 'it' THE thing to fix to get enough of THEY to come into raiding?

It's what I mostly see brought up as a problematic area. Not raiding itself, actually GETTING into raiding.

Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them. This is why there needs to be a change for THEY to 'get into it' ... because THEY aren't going to do raids in their current implementation.

You forgot you're not speaking for everyone and as I said, I base my response and supported possible-solution on what I've seen and read.

I'm not claiming to speak for everyone ...

"Again, THEY aren't doing raids because a path to getting into it doesn't exist. THEY aren't doing it because that path is ALREADY discouraging and unappealing to them."

Ok.

It's good you are OK with that ... because it's got nothing to do with speaking for people ... it's just a truth. There are LOTS of paths to get into raiding. That's not just some exclusive truth that only I can see either. It makes no sense to think yet another will bring people into raids to justify their renewed development.

Well then if you're interested in something different than raids then loads of that content already exists.

True, but that's not the topic of the thread. We are talking about what we would change about raids to justify renewing their development.

Yes, this is what it is, which isn't equivalent with "easier lege acquisition", which does nothing for raids or "saving them". Glad we cleared that out.

[Obtena.7952]

I'm not sure it was ever cloudy ... no one is here to get 'easier' leg armor but it's certainly not unreasonable to have a path to obtain raid rewards, even if raids change to entice THEY to do them. I don't see a reason that has to be taken off the table to have this discussion. Again, THEY already have options for content they are rewarded for they like doing. Telling them they can't earn leg. armor if they just don't do the current raid implementation is self defeating to the discussion because the relationship between rewards and the content people do long term is real.

Let's put it this way ... what is the fundamental reason people do content long term, possibly hundreds of times? It's loot! The challenge here is to entice THEY to raid. That's not a handful of raids to see the trees. The thread is about enticing THEY to participate in raids at a level that justifies release of new raids sustainably here. If long term rewards are off the table for these people, then why would they bother? it's a fail right off the bat.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Obtena.7952" said:no one is here to get 'easier' leg armor

haha, now that's a lie. I'm not saying it's necessarily you, but there are easly a few people that are rather obvious about that. You can keep pretending [about those people] otherwise if that somehow helps your case, w/e works for you. One way or another, what you've just said is easly false.

but it's certainly not unreasonable to have a path to obtain raid rewards, even if raids change to entice THEY to do them.

Short burst of people getting in the instance for 2 months does nothing for increasing an interest in raids and subsequent addition of more of that content. That's nothing more than an excuse.

Following your argument about "path [even if it's different than the proposed one, apparently] already existing so that's surely not a solution" (in your opinion) -those rewards already exist in raids, so that surely isn't a solution.And this is not a thread about legendary acquisition, so your opinion about multi-content reward availability is irrelevant.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:no one is here to get 'easier' leg armor

haha, now that's a lie. I'm not saying it's necessarily you, but there are easly a few people that are rather obvious about that. You can keep pretending otherwise if that somehow helps your case, w/e works for you.

Well, those people would be ... deluding themselves. For some reason you keep bringing it up to me ... I'm not making it part of my discussion with you.

Short burst of people getting in the instance for 2 months does nothing for increasing an interest in raids and subsequent addition of more of that content. That's nothing more than an excuse.

Following your argument about "path already existing so that's surely not a solution" (in your opinion) -those rewards already exist in raids, so that surely isn't a solution.

Except my logic isn't making loot the solution. I'm simply recognizing that loot is part of the reason people do things ... or NOT do them. I simply see very little long term commitment from THEY doing raids if there is no long term reason for THEY to do them. That's the topic of the thread. I don't get how you think THEY will be an answer to increasing raid participation to justify renewed development if they haven't got any reason to do more than a handful of raids to get a skin ... or see the trees.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:no one is here to get 'easier' leg armor

haha, now that's a lie. I'm not saying it's necessarily you, but there are easly a few people that are rather obvious about that. You can keep pretending otherwise if that somehow helps your case, w/e works for you.

Well, those people would be ... deluding themselves. For some reason you keep bringing it up to me ... I'm not making it part of my discussion with you.

I brought it well before and not just to you. For some reason you keep pretending those people don't exist in this thread, so yes, I'll bring it up in a response to that false claim.

Short burst of people getting in the instance for 2 months does nothing for increasing an interest in raids and subsequent addition of more of that content. That's nothing more than an excuse.

Following your argument about "path already existing so that's surely not a solution" (in your opinion) -those rewards already exist in raids, so that surely isn't a solution.

Except my logic isn't making loot the solution.

?You kept bringing it up as a solution and any notion of not including those rewards in easy mode were deemed as "attempt at blocking raid development". So yes, from my understanding it is your "solution". If it's not, then not sure what you were trying to say for the past 2 pages.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:no one is here to get 'easier' leg armor

haha, now that's a lie. I'm not saying it's necessarily you, but there are easly a few people that are rather obvious about that. You can keep pretending otherwise if that somehow helps your case, w/e works for you.

Well, those people would be ... deluding themselves. For some reason you keep bringing it up to me ... I'm not making it part of my discussion with you.

I brought it well before and not just to you. For some reason you keep pretending those people don't exist in this thread, so yes, I'll bring it up in a response to that false claim.

Short burst of people getting in the instance for 2 months does nothing for increasing an interest in raids and subsequent addition of more of that content. That's nothing more than an excuse.

Following your argument about "path already existing so that's surely not a solution" (in your opinion) -those rewards already exist in raids, so that surely isn't a solution.

Except my logic isn't making loot the solution.

?You kept bringing it up as a solution and any notion of not including those rewards in easy mode were deemed as "attempt at blocking raid development". So yes, from my understanding you are.

I'm not sure that's accurate. I do know that preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development.

[Sobx.1758]

Not sure what's accurate?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

Raids are the only ones who got shiny special legendary armor. And even that did not pull people in.

Maybe it is time to just scrap them.

[Obtena.7952]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:Raids are the only ones who got shiny special legendary armor. And even that did not pull people in.

Maybe it is time to just scrap them.

That's a great point ... because frankly, I think too many people are 'hung up' about who has leg. armor, what it means as a status symbol and how it impacts raid implementation, including Anet.

But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

[Sobx.1758]

@"Obtena.7952" said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.

We don't know that. We have no idea how Anet thinks ... but if leg. armor WAS somehow related to the reason for the current state of raids ... if people taking a 'pass' on leg. armor for sustainable raid development ... I would support that.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

We have no idea how Anet thinks

Well, for now what we know is that those rewards are tied to certain context and that's what Anet wants. You seem to care about what Anet thinks as long as it plays into your argument, but if it doesn't... then it's a huge mystery and "nobody can tell".

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though. I know that preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though.

Except if that's what they care about (pve lege armor tied to specific level/type of content) then they can implement easy mode without lege rewards as was proposed.

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though.

Except if that's what they care about (pve lege armor tied to specific level/type of content) then they can implement easy mode without lege rewards as was proposed.

Again, preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development. Pretending that loot isn't what EVERYONE cares about ... that's a no go.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though.

Except if that's what they care about (pve lege armor tied to specific level/type of content) then they can implement easy mode without lege rewards as was proposed.

Again, preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development.

And again, giving easier lege armor acquisition does nothing for raids. DO you actually try to make any point here or just trying to repeat that nobody knows anything for the sake of it?

...and nobody is "prevented from that access".

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though.

Except if that's what they care about (pve lege armor tied to specific level/type of content) then they can implement easy mode without lege rewards as was proposed.

Again, preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development.

And again, giving easier lege armor acquisition does nothing for raids. DO you actually try to make any point here or just trying to repeat that nobody knows anything for the sake of it?

I think my point is pretty clear ... you aren't going to entice non-raiders to take up raids in a significant way to justify renewed, sustainable raid development by denying them the long term rewards. I don't know where you have come to the conclusion that somehow it would be 'easier' ... I certainly didn't make that claim or suggest it should be. I don't even think it matters. If there isn't a reason for people to do content long term ... they don't.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:But I'm of a different flavour ... if Leg. armor is a philosophical barrier to fixing raids for everyone ... then Leg. armor should just stop being available as a raid reward.

Except it's not and it has nothing to do with "saving raids" nor does it do anything in that context.If you want to discuss lege acquisition methods, this is a wrong thread.

We don't know that.

Funny how you know "whatever idea you dislike" definitely won't work, but "whatever [one] idea you like" is a complete mistery whether or not it would work.Nope, the loot is already there and it didn't pull the players, that is not a solution by the exact same logic you have used before in regards of another ideas.

OK ... that doesn't change what I said though.

Except if that's what they care about (pve lege armor tied to specific level/type of content) then they can implement easy mode without lege rewards as was proposed.

Again, preventing THEY from access to the long term rewards of leg. armor is a reason for them NOT to participate in raids to the extent that would justify renewed raid development.

And again, giving easier lege armor acquisition does nothing for raids. DO you actually try to make any point here or just trying to repeat that nobody knows anything for the sake of it?

I think my point is pretty clear ...

If it was clear you wouldn't need to keep cicle back into "nobody knows" and "maybe anet wants or doesn't want" and subsequencially I wouldn't need to ask what point you're even trying to make. So it isn't.

you aren't going to entice non-raiders to take up raids in a significant way to justify renewed raid development by denying them the long term rewards.

Nobody would be denying them rewards. But people that claim it's too hard to get into raiding would have easier way into raiding. Thought it was already clear.

Also thought you're ok with the current state of raids, so what are you even discussing here?

[Obtena.7952]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:you aren't going to entice non-raiders to take up raids in a significant way to justify renewed raid development by denying them the long term rewards.

Nobody would be denying them rewards. But people that claim it's too hard to get into raiding would have easier way into raiding.

Well, you are because what other long term reward do you get from raid currency if leg. armor is taken off the table for THEY? Also, easier way into raid is not equivalent to easier rewards.

I mean, this is EXACTLY how Fractals works ... but raids can't work that way? It's certainly not easier for me to get rare infusions doing easy Fractals ... but I can still get them. Actually, what Anet did there was pretty smart and the ironic thing is that if implemented right, then rewards from low difficulty raids could actually be enticing to push THEY into current raid difficulty ... because that's how Fractals works.

[Sobx.1758]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:you aren't going to entice non-raiders to take up raids in a significant way to justify renewed raid development by denying them the long term rewards.

Nobody would be denying them rewards. But people that claim it's too hard to get into raiding would have easier way into raiding.

Well, you are because what other long term reward do you get from raid currency if leg. armor is taken off the table for THEY? Also, easier way into raid is not equivalent to easier rewards.

No, I'm not, the idea here is pretty clear and explained multiple times already, not sure what you're trying to do here by -again- disregarding what was said before.It's also pretty funny to me that suddenly learning something = denying long term rewards. It's quite the opposite.