Upcoming Changes to the Edge of the Mists Arena

[Infusion.7149]

11 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

The reason EOTM is a dead zone is because you don't get WvW reward track there.  This is why I asked.  If there are no special rewards then the zone will remain a dead zone after the initial novelty wears off.

You get reward track but not skirmish track pips (skirmish tickets).

[ThomasC.1056]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:33 PM, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Hi everyone,

 

We’ve made a few additions to the Edge of the Mists arena that will go live with the May 25^th release and we wanted to give a brief overview of what those changes look like.

 

The Mists Arena was originally built as a more accessible space for players looking to self-organize structured fights using WvW skill balance, but the lack of team selection has always limited its usefulness. That won’t be a problem moving forward, as we’re adding the ability for players to manually select and switch between two different teams in the Mists Arena.

 

The new flow of the Mists Arena island looks like this:

• Upon teleporting to the island, players are automatically switched onto a new team for spectators. This team is friendly to the two combat teams and cannot enter the arena floor. Spectators who attempt to enter the arena will simply be teleported back to the team selection area.
• On the edge of the arena are flags that players can interact with to freely switch between Mists Arena teams. Players on either of the combat teams will be able to enter the arena floor.
• Leaving the island will revert players back to their original WvW team.

 

We’ve also added a transformation option for spectators, which removes their skills and allows them to float above the battlefield to get a better view of the action. This transformation is forced to maintain a certain height above the arena floor, and players in this transformation will be invisible to combatants inside the arena. This is available by interacting with a flag in the same area as team selection.

 

It’s a small set of changes, but players will no longer be dependent on their Edge of the Mists team placement when looking to fight in the Mists Arena.

 

Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in the mists!

 

-The Systems Team

Thanks for the nice input, and improvement. I think it'll fill a meaningful purpose as GvG is often asked for.

 

I just hoped it won't be ruined by self-management issues like too many guilds wanting to use the arena at the same time, or grievers joining only to troll. I don't think there's much that can be done on ANet's side without huge restrictions that'd impair usability too much.

 

GvG addicts : have fun !

[Diku.2546]

OMG!  IT'S HAPPENING!!!

[Sviel.7493]

Pretty amazing QoL change, I think.

I won't be using it, ever, but it's nice to see a part of the community thrown a bone.

[Caitybee.3614]

You people happy now? Finally something nobody is complaining about.

[Frostterror.6075]

This a welcome change :)

Now we just need to get a WvW/PvP option for the Guild Hall Arena, love a Guild Leader who uses it alot :D

 

[anduriell.6280]

This is an amazing addition, thank you! 

[FunesMori.3947]

Great Change.

But to this:

On 5/20/2021 at 10:33 PM, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

It’s a small set of changes, but players will no longer be dependent on their Edge of the Mists team placement when looking to fight in the Mists Arena.

You will still dependent on your team color when arranging fights. Because there is only one arena per map instance and you have mostly 2-3 fights per map. So you are not guaranteed to fight in Arena and since you are the same color you cant switch to any other spot on the map.

Have you thought about adding more arenas to the map or make a map that is accessible through the Gate to the Mists Arena that consits out of maybe 3+ arenas only?

[Strider Pj.2193]

On 5/22/2021 at 4:07 AM, DeathPanel.8362 said:

The reason EOTM is a dead zone is because you don't get WvW reward track there.  This is why I asked.  If there are no special rewards then the zone will remain a dead zone after the initial novelty wears off.

You DO get WvW reward track progress in EoTM.  

You also get World XP.

 

and progress for Gift of Battle and Warclaw (with one piece exception)

 

and progress towards WvW dailies

 

you DONT get progress on the skirmish reward track.  

[Strider Pj.2193]

One thing I like about this change is that guilds from the same server or link can GvG now.  As well as two groups from the same guild.  
 

definately a welcome change.

[Pharaohz.3470]

People who just want to fight or GvG know where to go now. Especially the toxic guild from WSR. hahaha

[DeathPanel.8362]

On 5/23/2021 at 7:52 AM, Strider Pj.2193 said:

You DO get WvW reward track progress in EoTM.  

You also get World XP.

 

and progress for Gift of Battle and Warclaw (with one piece exception)

 

and progress towards WvW dailies

 

you DONT get progress on the skirmish reward track.  

I misspoke.  That's what I meant.  My point still stands though.  As long as EOTM doesn't have the same rewards as standard WvW or something else that makes it uniquely rewarding people won't stick around once the novelty of the new changes wear off.

[Infusion.7149]

2 minutes ago, DeathPanel.8362 said:

I misspoke.  That's what I meant.  My point still stands though.  As long as EOTM doesn't have the same rewards as standard WvW or something else that makes it uniquely rewarding people won't stick around once the novelty of the new changes wear off.

If you're skirmish ticket capped for the week it's functionally the same as regular WvW for the most part.

If player events add on donated rewards for GvG or something akin to that, I could see it being more than worth it. We see this for the PvE side with raiding league and the PvP tournaments held by Teapot and others.

[Diku.2546]

ANet - Please undo this change.

 

We don't need another Obsidian Sanctum.

 

EotM should be used for 3 major things...imho

 

1)  Area where players can go to & casually socialize.

2)  Teach players the basic mechanics of the WvW game mode.

3)  Allow Guilds to Recruit potential WvW Guild Members.

 

This change does not do this & the objective of the design is really vague & ambiguous effort to do GvG...which does not support the overall WvW game mode, but encourages a subset of the larger WvW game mode.

 

Example EotM that supports the overall WvW game mode:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/61981-wvg-world-vs-globes-road-map-to-reboot-wvw/?tab=comments#comment-992633

 

I can not support this decision to make EotM into a GvG arena that waters down the overall WvW game mode.

 

Yours truly,

Diku 

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Diku.2546

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Diku.2546 said:

ANet - Please undo this change.

 

We don't need another Obsidian Sanctum.

 

EotM should be used for 3 major things...imho

 

1)  Area where players can go to & casually socialize.

2)  Teach players the basic mechanics of the WvW game mode.

3)  Allow Guilds to Recruit potential WvW Guild Members.

 

This change does not do this & the objective of the design is really vague & ambiguous effort to do GvG...which does not support the overall WvW game mode, but encourages a subset of the larger WvW game mode.

 

Example EotM that supports the overall WvW game mode:

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/61981-wvg-world-vs-globes-road-map-to-reboot-wvw/?tab=comments#comment-992633

 

I can not support this decision to make EotM into a GvG arena that waters down the overall WvW game mode.

 

Yours truly,

Diku 

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

I visited it last night and 2 guilds were going at it for about an hour. I stayed for the whole thing and my participation in WvW did not deteriorate which it would have if I had been in WvW (finished diamond skirmish, but that's not the point).

Having a dedicated area for GvG is beneficial for WvW because players intending to GvG don't waste queue space. It also allows players to recruit from other servers without engaging in the server hopping nonsense. Unless the guild is an "everyone welcome" "casually socialize" guild (lol) then having some gauge of how well a player performs is part of the recruitment and player self-improvement process.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[XenesisII.1540]

Turn eotm into a social hub? ehhhh don't we already have that in armistice bastion?

I'd rather they turn on pips on in a much lesser degree in there and basically have it as the in between of pve and wvw introduction/training grounds.

 

I don't have a problem with the arena, if it frees up queues and 30 useless people on the maps, knock yourselves out.

 

Now to find a way to get the "solo roamer groups" off the maps too...

 

 

[Diku.2546]

Flow of Incoming Players should be kept simple & have a purpose behind it.

 

Players ---> EotM ---> WvW

or

Players ---> Armistice Bastion ---> EotM ---> WvW

 

Major Purpose for doing this includes:

 

1) Meet for WvW

2) Teach about WvW

3) Recruit for WvW

 

Bottom line you have to go through EoTM to get to WvW.

 

It's the one "Area" that helps players do these 3 major things.

 

Also, this change is a nice change when we haven't had anything done for years.

 

But it appears to me that it's a surprise change.

 

There is no plan on why we're doing this change in relation to a larger Road Map which primary purpose should be to improve the WvW game mode.

 

My above example does that...why can't ANet post something similar to explain their purpose?

 

How do you go about explaining the subtle differences between EotM with WvW to a 1st time noob player?

 

How do you teach 1st time noob players how to play on EotM & WvW?

 

How do you explain to a 1st time noob player the chaotic design that makes up the WvW game mode?

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

EotM should look & operate like the regular WvW maps to help the 1st time noob players start in a place that opens their world to the larger WvW game mode.

 

EotM should be used to let players meet, teach, and recruit other players for WvW.

 

I cannot support this change to the design of EotM that feels like it's being done for the sake of change.

 

Also, are there plans to upgrade Obsidian Sanctum (our other GvG Map) to also have a spectator mode added to it?  Which would make better sense...imho

 

Yours truly,

Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Diku.2546

[Infusion.7149]

You're fixating on your own proposals but this change has nothing to do with "on-ramping new players". It's obviously to get GvG-ing guilds off maps that are doing nothing for the matchup. In addition, it allows guilds to GvG even if they're on the same server, or players that aren't on the same server or even server color to fight together or against each other. If a WvW guild has any hope of gauging an outside player's skill or ability to be trained without paying for a transfer, this is it.

Using Obsidian Sanctum is a terrible idea if you want to keep participation and Armistice Bastion pass is not a permanent fixture in the gem store (only 2 week pass is).

The only way throwing players into Edge of the Mists would be a good idea instead of a straight click to WvW is if only below level 80 players had a prompt to go to EotM first and it actually had population. Then again EotM bosses are actually harder hitting and have quirks to them akin to the Desert BL ones so unless new players have outside support they're just going to hate EotM and never set foot into WvW.

Regarding your three items:

1) "Area where players can go to & casually socialize." --- WvW is not about casually socializing, people already do this whenever there is veteran creature slayer... see also guildhalls, Armistice Bastion, Lions Arch by the Mist portals, etc.

2)  "Teach players the basic mechanics of the WvW game mode." --- learn by doing , not that difficult (see Drizzlewood Coast or Silverwastes)

3)  "Allow Guilds to Recruit potential WvW Guild Members." --- zone other than Armistice Bastion to recruit from , a server-only map such as Lions Arch where the Mist portals are would help

A far larger problem than those "issues" is the WvW mastery creep over the years (1226 now), it should be cut down instead of cutting down prestige rewards such as mistforged armor rank.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[SyLaR.3628]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:33 AM, Diku.2546 said:

I cannot support this change to the design of EotM that feels like it's being done for the sake of change.

 

Also, are there plans to upgrade Obsidian Sanctum (our other GvG Map) to also have a spectator mode added to it?  Which would make better sense...imho

 

Obsidian sanctum would still be locked only for players who are in same matchup. How would it make better sense?

 

To get into Eotm gvg arena you have to go through portal, it is not connected to other parts of map, it doesn not interfere with your beloved eotm map. Some of the players didnt even know that such area existed.

Eotm was designed as a waiting room map for main WvW.

[Thornwolf.9721]

On 5/27/2021 at 8:33 PM, Diku.2546 said:

Flow of Incoming Players should be kept simple & have a purpose behind it.

 

Players ---> EotM ---> WvW

or

Players ---> Armistice Bastion ---> EotM ---> WvW

 

Major Purpose for doing this includes:

 

1) Meet for WvW

2) Teach about WvW

3) Recruit for WvW

 

Bottom line you have to go through EoTM to get to WvW.

 

It's the one "Area" that helps players do these 3 major things.

 

Also, this change is a nice change when we haven't had anything done for years.

 

But it appears to me that it's a surprise change.

 

There is no plan on why we're doing this change in relation to a larger Road Map which primary purpose should be to improve the WvW game mode.

 

My above example does that...why can't ANet post something similar to explain their purpose?

 

How do you go about explaining the subtle differences between EotM with WvW to a 1st time noob player?

 

How do you teach 1st time noob players how to play on EotM & WvW?

 

How do you explain to a 1st time noob player the chaotic design that makes up the WvW game mode?

 

--------------------------------------------------

 

EotM should look & operate like the regular WvW maps to help the 1st time noob players start in a place that opens their world to the larger WvW game mode.

 

EotM should be used to let players meet, teach, and recruit other players for WvW.

 

I cannot support this change to the design of EotM that feels like it's being done for the sake of change.

 

Also, are there plans to upgrade Obsidian Sanctum (our other GvG Map) to also have a spectator mode added to it?  Which would make better sense...imho

 

Yours truly,

Diku

 

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

WvW is simple, teaching is something that should come from experience not hand holding. The GvG being moved to edge means the map is at least used; Id prefer it be pulled in as a fourth map for WvW as a whole but they seem against actually developing anything for WvW so be happy they even did anything at all.

Its abundantly clear that they dont care about this mode or its players, more so that they never intend to give us new maps or anything cool. Just mount skins for the warclaw, we're like the butt of a joke at this point.