Please undo the 02/25/2020 profession update already (and bring back fall damage traits)

[Sobx.1758]

18 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

There is so much counterplay to CC skills that removing the damage to them made no sense, especially for the highly telegraphed ones that no decent player should ever get hit by.

Soo if no decent player should ever get hit by them then buffing dmg should be irrelevant, so there's no reason to push for it? 😛

 

 

btw this is why I prefer the skill formulas with base+scaling dmg, because they're easier to balance by making them do exactly what they should do. I don't think a lot of people would have problem with cc skills having some small base damage that can't scale up.

About people repeating that change was "because cc+dmg is doing too much, so lets compare it to just raw text of other skills and show that some do more!" -preeeeeetty sure it wasn't exactly about "doing too much", but rather picking all cc skills you can and then literally spamming hard cc while killing the target at the same time with the exact same button presses. Not "WOAH IT DOES 2 THINGS?! TOO MUCH!".

But yeah, that patch still lacks a good follow up with some traits/skills' at least partial reworks or adjustments.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It was a reference to the absurd notion that cc's also doing damage is 'too much' given what those other mechanics are capable of.

 

its not absurd. CCing someone while also simultaniously doing damage, is toxic to the game. it effectively turns a CC Chain into a immediate KO. you'd just spam CC for a Easymode win.

 

in all honesty this says Enough about you.

 

Oh "how much power Stealth CC breaks and more give Players lets layer on another thing".

 

its fundamentally ridiculous ur saying "stealth is super powerful so lets give it another tool to be even more ridiculous" lets Look at this.

 

4x Class with Stun 1 shot. 1 Thief... invis initate Insta Slam 4 Stuns down. BOOm headshot, next target.

 

this is the design ur idea promotes.. what will likely happen the moment u implement such a thing. buffing CC in this sort of way. means TONS of other things will need nerfing. Stealth needs a nerf, Teleports Need a nerf. Supports become Mandatory. +1ing fights Completely destroys Duelling.

 

If u beleive what u beleive. go revert chrono to what it was. Because ur concept is what Chronomancers wells Used to do... Go make Chrono what it was and lets see Why exactly your ideas dont exist. because guess what. ur "BAD PLAYER ALERTS" are 90% of this game. and fundamentally the Vast majority of Anets profits.

 

your ideras Bad. "honest replies" im giving u honest replies. but i structurely am looking at ur change among a 5v5 Team Fight on a Node. Not from the aspects of a 1v1 which half ur examples only apply to, i look at the combination of skills already in the game with this conceptual Change. and im saying Everything overall is Too much.

 

Any change put in a vacuum is Fine. putting Damage on CC is Fine.. its when u throw the design ontop of everything else already existing in the game.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

15 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

its not absurd. CCing someone while also simultaniously doing damage, is toxic to the game. it effectively turns a CC Chain into a immediate KO. you'd just spam CC for a Easymode win.

 

 

oh no.. i read what u say.

 

ur tellnifg me to actively move out of 10 telegraphed CC Spam Chain 24/7 like a Reflex God Ninja Star player.

 

 

Lol

 

No dude.. telling someone "just actively dodge 10 Telepgrahs Every second Without fail.. while also Taking a node, Applying pressure. Doing damage and Reviving allies.. dont worry, easymode.

 

you have to x anything u do by 10, because its a 5v5.. where 10 people are actively spamming telegraphed abilities. lol.. ur not going to live a entire game among all that surviving.

 

your arguments are actually BS. in a 1v1 maybe your ideas would be fine... but GW2 isnt a 1v1.

 

again. Consider this

 

Thief AoE Stealth. man initates on u from stealth, the Telegraph is invisible, u cannot see it coming. tell me how to know Where im getting hit from?

 

in a team fighjt game. u have to balance this under every possibility.

 

Among Teamfights. being Supported,. from invis, From above, Among skill ranks, Against every class.

 

youj cant balance ur notion to cover all of that, its litterally kitten for anyone below pro level ,and u even admit that.

 

95% Of this game are silver players.. why direcrtly launch something thats gonna impact them negatively?

 

if ur argument is a ability is soo telegraphed it needs to be damaging to be balanced maybe the ability needs fundamentally Changing insrtead of introducing garbage design.

Yeah, at this point you're just being disengenuos and reducing the plethora of counters I offered to you as only to dodge. That's straw man. You aren't worth my time anymore. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Bruh people don't want dmg on CCs at all. I present to you the answer:

 

Keep a base dmg modifier. elevate it above your normal; autoattack, but below any decent dmg skill. And boom 
 

The Skill cannot critically hit

 

theres your answer. dmg is back (happy me), dmg cant scale to absurd levels due to crit being removed from the dmg part (happy you).

[Puck.3697]

13 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, at this point you're just being disengenuos and reducing the plethora of counters I offered to you as only to dodge. That's straw man. You aren't worth my time anymore. 

 

lmfao. no your Plethora of "Counters" Work in a 1v1.

 

im asking you whjat are u counters among a 5v5.. even better a 50v50v50 WvWvW fight.

 

Where are the counters Among those enviroments?

 

Dont just say "look at the floor" because theres TONS of visible Animations and more simultaniously going on. I Said ur ideas work in a 1v1. Sure "just move out the way, remain Alert. watch animations"... but what u gonna Say about that stuff?.. you think someone in Melee could Dodge a Rangers Hilt bash. that stuff Auto targets u.. the only way out ios being out of Range or Dodging.

 

Among Larger teamfights Animations become blurred. u cant keep everyone in visual Range perfectly and Lots of things are happennig around you. or even being targetted at different players.

 

and Strawman? with u and ur 5head answers.

 

why are u Designing ideas on Such a Small scale comparitively to what the games Modes actually are balancing?.. Litterally PvP and WvWvW are conjoined in balancing. you cant launch a Idea thats gonna be toxic in one enviroment but not the others.

 

no ones being Disengenuous other then you, your Litterally promoting CC One shot KOs and Abuse of Stealth mechanics to become the future of the game because of what? U think some CC is too Telegraphed in the game.. Well maybe make the CC less Telegraphed to match other CCs in the game instead.

9 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Bruh people don't want dmg on CCs at all. I present to you the answer:

 

Keep a base dmg modifier. elevate it above your normal; autoattack, but below any decent dmg skill. And boom 
 

The Skill cannot critically hit

 

theres your answer. dmg is back (happy me), dmg cant scale to absurd levels due to crit being removed from the dmg part (happy you).

 

the issue isnt the Damage on CCs existance, the issue is the combination of layering this ontop of what can already be used among teamfights. When u look at Stacking (Such as with current scourge) and Also mechanics that can happen around it.

 

Its ok saying "you should be punished for not reacting to a telegraphed skilL" and thats very true in a 1v1, but a 5v5? a 50v50? a WvWvW Zerg? How much more can be built around it to make it Work as  acomp strat?.. what about initating from invis?..

 

any change in a vacuum will look good.. its when u throw it among all the other toys in the game that it becomes a problem realistically.

 

It has to be balanced within everything else all together, and sure we all want those compromises to happen on things we want them to and not in ways we dont

 

I want my Rangers GS Mauls attacks. its a VERY Telegraphed slow ability and Slower then ALOT Of abilities like it.. yet does Less Damage, this is because people hated the Ranger burst. and because things were happening where it suddenly started being very capable it got nerfed for it.

 

but that doesnt mean it should come back realistically. everything has a knock on effect. Scourge is a REALLY good example of what happens When u hand out a Role which just does so many things.  so many other things would have to be toned down to bring the damage back in a reasonable way.

CC Chains are rarely fun.. People likely dont wanna end up running into "Being Immobed" "being knocked down" "large telegraph falls on their head whic hdoes a heap on Damage and CCs them further" for then "some thief to 2 shot its last 50% of health".

 

in a teamfight ur Telegraphs are irrelevant. When players have several mechanics which result in loss of Ability to control their character. Fears, Immobs, Knockdowns, Stuns, Slows, Cripples. these all affect ur ability to escape a telegraph. and all Are used regularly among Teamfights.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Puck.3697]

17 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

If Anet really is adamant about CC skills not dealing damage, then they have to make some really heavy rebalancing, tho.

There are quite some skills which were balanced as hard hitting CC skills by giving other downsides.

 

My prime example for this is Big Ol' Bomb. It used to be a hard hitting skill which also launched the enemy, yet no one ever complained about it.

Because this puts down a big fricking keg with a red ring, which warns you 3 seconds in advance.

 

You get a highly telegraphed skill, which screams "get out of this zone in the next 3 seconds" at you. And 3 seconds is enough time to walk out of it, you don't even need to dodge like for other CC.

 

All this skill does now is being an AoE CC NO one gets ever hit by anyway. It is legit garbage now.

If it needs to have the damage removed, then they have to heavily buff it elsewhere.

 

 

and i agree with you on this. Some skills are so largely telegraphed they arent worth the pay off, and These abilities should realistically be changed. but i dont beleive loading CC with tons of Damage again is the only fix that could be made there.

 

for example.. is Big ol' Bomb u could start the detonator While in hand And then Yeet it at the target at a Medium Ranged Distance. your Likely seeing a Fix there. there are lots of options to change the outliers then reverting a patch entirely so all CC Starts smacking.

 

Ranger GS's Maul was Nerfed hard.. its now one of the lowest Damage of its ability pool yet is Slower, and More telegraphed then other abilities alike it.

 

19 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Use stability.

 

stab also only covers 1 CC what if ur being hit by several at the same time? very few have The access to stab u'd need to nullify Every CC Attempt among a Teamfight. not to mention overlapping CC's

 

19 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

or break LoS

 

Not applicable on plenty of areas of WvWvW for one.. it also instantly loses the node? this turns the ability into Area denial.. which gives the enemy the cap..

 

WvWvW is balanced in the same bubble as SPVP. so it also has to be applied to this .

 

19 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

or use blind

 

Blinding the person who u CC'd u doesnt Change his Team member Initating on you.

 

19 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

use weakness to nullify the follow up burst.

 

Because the person who applies the CC aint always gonna be the one who follows up with burst

 

For example. a Thief initating on u from being CC'd by a team mate.

 

there i Answered every answer u put.

 

tell you what.

 

Revert Rangers Maul Nerfs and u can have ur CC Damage. it applies to EXACTLY what ur saying.

 

Maul is MORE Telegraphed then most abilities Like it. it also is Slower then alot of them and WAAAY Visually More alerting. So give me back my Mauls Damage.. because ur Terms of ideas of acceptability. it Should be reverted no one really talks about it.. ebcause most people just accept the fact It made Rangers burst SUPER high when they got the combo off but at the end of the day.

 

the changes still Left Rangers Unused entirely in AT/ Monthly AT and Serious Comps. its closest build it had was a Immob Meme Comp since Druid got Wrecked.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

49 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Bruh people don't want dmg on CCs at all. I present to you the answer:

 

Keep a base dmg modifier. elevate it above your normal; autoattack, but below any decent dmg skill. And boom 
 

The Skill cannot critically hit

 

theres your answer. dmg is back (happy me), dmg cant scale to absurd levels due to crit being removed from the dmg part (happy you).

See, that is what CMC should have done first, not this montrosity we have now.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Soo if no decent player should ever get hit by them then buffing dmg should be irrelevant, so there's no reason to push for it? 😛

 

 

btw this is why I prefer the skill formulas with base+scaling dmg, because they're easier to balance by making them do exactly what they should do. I don't think a lot of people would have problem with cc skills having some small base damage that can't scale up.

About people repeating that change was "because cc+dmg is doing too much, so lets compare it to just raw text of other skills and show that some do more!" -preeeeeetty sure it wasn't exactly about "doing too much", but rather picking all cc skills you can and then literally spamming hard cc while killing the target at the same time with the exact same button presses. Not "WOAH IT DOES 2 THINGS?! TOO MUCH!".

But yeah, that patch still lacks a good follow up with some traits/skills' at least partial reworks or adjustments.

 

 

Yeah, the balance team should have considered things like reducing the scaling but keeping a medium base damage, or removing the ability to crit with CCs before gutting them the way they did. Especially for the CCs with huge telegraphs.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

There's still the issue of there are still skills that still do stuns that still do damage. Looking at you thunderclap.  Below is the pvp/wvw description.

Ionize an area, bringing down the power of lightning to stun foes and damage them over its duration.

 Damage (5x): 910 (2.25)^?

 

 Vulnerability (6s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming  Stun: 1 second

  Pulses: 6

  Interval: 1 second

  Radius: 240

  Combo Field: Lightning

  Range: 1,200

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap

Edited May 28, 2021 by Red Haired Savage.5430
Fixing wiki icons

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

There's still the issue of there are still skills that still do stuns that still do damage. Looking at you thunderclap.  Below is the pvp/wvw description.

Ionize an area, bringing down the power of lightning to stun foes and damage them over its duration.

 

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/6a/Damage.png/20px-Damage.png Damage (5x): 910 (2.25)^?

 

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/af/Vulnerability.png/20px-Vulnerability.png Vulnerability (6s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/9/97/Stun.png/20px-Stun.png Stun: 1 second

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/2/28/Miscellaneous_effect.png/20px-Miscellaneous_effect.png Pulses: 6

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/2/29/Interval.png/20px-Interval.png Interval: 1 second

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/a/a4/Radius.png/20px-Radius.png Radius: 240

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/1/1a/Combo.png/20px-Combo.png Combo Field: Lightning

 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/c/c5/Range.png/20px-Range.png Range: 1,200

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap

No, this is consistent.

 

Just the hit which actually delivers the CC gets the reduced damage and it works the same for all CC abilities with multiple hits.

 

Other examples are pistol whip, prime light beam (leaving a damaging field if cast above 50 heat), pitfall....

 

The hit from thunderclap which delivers the stun doesn't deal any damage in the first place, hence why it didn't need changes. 

You can look at any multi-hit skill which has CC on one of them, they all work like this. It is intended.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

7 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

No, this is consistent.

 

Just the hit which actually delivers the CC gets the reduced damage and it works the same for all CC abilities with multiple hits.

 

Other examples are pistol whip, prime light beam (leaving a damaging field if cast above 50 heat), pitfall....

 

The hit from thunderclap which delivers the stun doesn't deal any damage in the first place, hence why it didn't need changes. 

You can look at any multi-hit skill which has CC on one of them, they all work like this. It is intended.

That still kinda defeats the purpose of them not wanting CC skills doing damage. You drop your CC and it's still doing damage while you're following up with more attacks, while you're still possibly CC'ed. Also the February update notes don't say that's what they do.

 

• Thunderclap: (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

[Kodama.6453]

20 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

That still kinda defeats the purpose of them not wanting CC skills doing damage. You drop your CC and it's still doing damage while you're following up with more attacks, while you're still possibly CC'ed. Also the February update notes don't say that's what they do.

 

• Thunderclap: (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

The last thing we need is even more CC skills made trash tier. Not to mention that this would introduce even more illogical stuff and defeat the purpose of certain mechanics.

 

For example, if we remove all damage from these skills, then there is no reward for casting prime light beam above 50 heat anymore, since the lingering field legit just does 1 thing: dealing damage.

 

Also, as I said, this system is actually consistent. If you want to remove damage from multi-hits and lingering effects as well, then this leads to many edge cases we have to reconsider and which would kitten up even more stuff.

 

Examples: rocket turret, thumper turret, net turret. These 3 turrets overcharge right when you drop them down and their overcharged abilities have hard CC (knockdown on rocket, launch on thumper, stun on net). They will keep attacking after their overcharged abilities ended. So how are these affected now? They keep damaging, do you want to remove their damage and make them even more useless than they already are?

 

Pistol whip is a skill which an integrated setup, it stuns the enemy so the following attacks hit it. With this change, the best play would actually be to cancel pistol whip, so you can attack an enemy with abilities which actually deal damage, which is counter intuitive.

 

Changing this stuff just makes everything more kittened up, which is why I consider this to be an intended decision by anet and not an oversight and I also don't think it defeats the purpose.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

There's still the issue of there are still skills that still do stuns that still do damage. Looking at you thunderclap.  Below is the pvp/wvw description.

Ionize an area, bringing down the power of lightning to stun foes and damage them over its duration.

 Damage (5x): 910 (2.25)^?

 

 Vulnerability (6s): 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming  Stun: 1 second

  Pulses: 6

  Interval: 1 second

  Radius: 240

  Combo Field: Lightning

  Range: 1,200

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap

 

tbh. as far as i've understood so far, Anet have left multiple messes after quite a few of their decisions, so it doesnt suprise me.

[cryorion.9532]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

But yeah, that patch still lacks a good follow up with some traits/skills' at least partial reworks or adjustments.

 

Exactly. I mean, people were expecting Anet to continue but then expansion happened, I guess?

Damage reduction on cc skills makes sense but the extreme nerf these skills got was just overkill.

It still feels so weird when powerful-looking skills hit for 20 damage... disgusting.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

41 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The last thing we need is even more CC skills made trash tier. Not to mention that this would introduce even more illogical stuff and defeat the purpose of certain mechanics.

 

For example, if we remove all damage from these skills, then there is no reward for casting prime light beam above 50 heat anymore, since the lingering field legit just does 1 thing: dealing damage.

 

Also, as I said, this system is actually consistent. If you want to remove damage from multi-hits and lingering effects as well, then this leads to many edge cases we have to reconsider and which would kitten up even more stuff.

 

Examples: rocket turret, thumper turret, net turret. These 3 turrets overcharge right when you drop them down and their overcharged abilities have hard CC (knockdown on rocket, launch on thumper, stun on net). They will keep attacking after their overcharged abilities ended. So how are these affected now? They keep damaging, do you want to remove their damage and make them even more useless than they already are?

 

Pistol whip is a skill which an integrated setup, it stuns the enemy so the following attacks hit it. With this change, the best play would actually be to cancel pistol whip, so you can attack an enemy with abilities which actually deal damage, which is counter intuitive.

 

Changing this stuff just makes everything more kittened up, which is why I consider this to be an intended decision by anet and not an oversight and I also don't think it defeats the purpose.

I'm not saying we need more CCs trashed, I'm saying that Anet is inconsistent. I'm saying either Anet needs to give back damage to CCs that got gutted or they need to be consistent and gut the rest. My vote would be for the first one, but if they're not going to give me damage back on my warrior CC than the rest of you can burn with us warriors.

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

I'm not saying we need more CCs trashed, I'm saying that Anet is inconsistent. I'm saying either Anet needs to give back damage to CCs that got gutted or they need to be consistent and gut the rest. My vote would be for the first one, but if they're not going to give me damage back on my warrior CC than the rest of you can burn with us warriors.

Except it is consistent?

The hit which delivers the CC deals no damage. This is consistent, even if you don't like the rule.

 

I agree that warrior got hit especially hard, tho. As far as I know, all CC spells from warrior are single hits and therefore got all damage removed. 

I agree that they should reconsider this change and buff many skills in the game (as I mentioned before, Big Ol' Bomb is also a skill which needs buff, since it is pretty useless now).

 

But claiming that they are inconsistent because of these is just not correct, it is consistent.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

26 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Except it is consistent?

The hit which delivers the CC deals no damage. This is consistent, even if you don't like the rule.

 

I agree that warrior got hit especially hard, tho. As far as I know, all CC spells from warrior are single hits and therefore got all damage removed. 

I agree that they should reconsider this change and buff many skills in the game (as I mentioned before, Big Ol' Bomb is also a skill which needs buff, since it is pretty useless now).

 

But claiming that they are inconsistent because of these is just not correct, it is consistent.

It is not consistent, the skill even says each hit has a damage coefficient of .45 while skull crack is .01. 

Competitive content update:

• (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

It never says decreased the first strike.

[ThrakathNar.4537]

23 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

It is not consistent, the skill even says each hit has a damage coefficient of .45 while skull crack is .01. 

Competitive content update:

• (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

It never says decreased the first strike.

Test it yourself, the first strike on thunderclap (the one that stuns) doesn't do any damage.

 

You can see the target getting stunned, but the damage does not show up in the combat log until 1 second after that.

 

The reason why it doesn't show on the skill description that the first strike has a 0.01 power coefficient is because it doesn't. The stun does precisely 0 damage, unlike skull bash where the stun does 3 damage.

Edited May 28, 2021 by ThrakathNar.4537
Clarified to explain what was meant by "doesn't do any damage".

[Kodama.6453]

22 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

It is not consistent, the skill even says each hit has a damage coefficient of .45 while skull crack is .01. 

Competitive content update:

• (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

It never says decreased the first strike.

Now I get what's the misunderstanding, it seems you don't know how thunderclap works.

 

Thunderclap's first hit is applying the stun and this hit literally deals 0 damage, it doesn't even show a damage number. Then 1 second after the stun hit, the lingering field ticks damage and this damage hits with a 0.45 power coefficient.

 

The nerf from 0.8 to 0.45 power coefficient was unrelated to the change to CC skills. In this patch, many power skills got nerfed, for example, most hard hitting power skills got nerfed to hit with 2.0 power coefficient max.

 

But the system for CC spells is still consistent here, they nerfed the damage just from the hits which apply the CC. But thunderclap's stun never did damage in the first place, hence why it didn't get changed, applying a 0.01 power coefficient to thunderclap's first hit would actually be a buff, from dealing legit 0 damage to 3 damage.

 

Sorry, but the system is consistent right now. You just have to actually look into the skills in question and see for yourself, instead of just looking at wiki and make wrong conclusions based on the numbers shown there.

[TheBravery.9615]

3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

No, this is consistent.

 

Just the hit which actually delivers the CC gets the reduced damage and it works the same for all CC abilities with multiple hits.

 

Other examples are pistol whip, prime light beam (leaving a damaging field if cast above 50 heat), pitfall....

 

The hit from thunderclap which delivers the stun doesn't deal any damage in the first place, hence why it didn't need changes. 

You can look at any multi-hit skill which has CC on one of them, they all work like this. It is intended.

This is a form over function design approach in which I disagree with greatly.

 

Thunderclap: A ground targeted 1200 range that pulses a stun on first strike, then a damaging AOE on the next couple. Also a lightning field and applies vulnerability. No requirement to cast.

 

Skull crack: A single target melee range Stun. Requires adrenaline to cast.

 

Look at me straight in the face and tell me if that's a fair design decision. I'm not advocating on nerfing thunderclap for what it's worth, I wish ANET would look over each skill individually and adjust them accordingly, not ctrl-f replace all stuns with 0 damage which is an entirely lazy approach.

[Kodama.6453]

1 minute ago, TheBravery.9615 said:

This is a form over function design approach in which I disagree with greatly.

 

Thunderclap: A ground targeted 1200 range that pulses a stun on first strike, then a damaging AOE on the next couple. Also a lightning field and applies vulnerability. No requirement to cast.

 

Skull crack: A single target melee range Stun. Requires adrenaline to cast.

 

Look at me straight in the face and tell me if that's a fair design decision. I'm not advocating on nerfing thunderclap for what it's worth, I wish ANET would look over each skill individually and adjust them accordingly, not ctrl-f replace all stuns with 0 damage which is an entirely lazy approach.

If you look through my comments, you will notice that I completely agree with you.

 

Balancing for CC abilities is way off, since there are many skills which became garbage because of the universal rule of "hits which apply CC don't do damage".

Skull crack is one of these, I provided another example with big ol' bomb.

 

So yes, these underperforming skills should definitely get looked at and rebalanced accordingly. 

 

I just had to point out that anet was actually consistent with their approach to CC. The one I responded to implied that anet is inconsistent because thunderclap is still dealing damage in the following ticks and that this should get changed because of consistency.

 

So I was saying that consistency is no argument here, since they were consistent. Up to the point of completely ignoring context and hurting skills over it even.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

What really gets me is that there are so many dazes, or skills that can be made into dazes, that are quick cast, are bloated with effects, and still do heavy damage, but something like skull crack which is only cc and cost a resource, and is easy to whiff with deals no damage.

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

It is not consistent, the skill even says each hit has a damage coefficient of .45 while skull crack is .01. 

Competitive content update:

• (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.8 to 0.45. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds.

It never says decreased the first strike.

What are you even arguing here? The stun hit doesn't have dmg, you're wrong, just stop already. You've managed to check the wiki for coefficient, but skipped the "notes" for the sake of arguing about "patch notes not saying that!"?

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, the balance team should have considered things like reducing the scaling but keeping a medium base damage, or removing the ability to crit with CCs before gutting them the way they did. Especially for the CCs with huge telegraphs.

More like they should consider making it harder (or plain impossible) to chain-cc someone for longer time. Some form of diminishing return/shortterm immunity to effect after being hit once maybe, or some form of shortterm cc immunity added to stunbreakers.

 

All the talk about how bad it is to have damage on cc skills is just smokescreen that draws your attention away from the real problems, which lie in how the CC effects work. Not in how many other stuff is/is not attached to the same skills.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

More like they should consider making it harder (or plain impossible) to chain-cc someone for longer time. Some form of diminishing return/shortterm immunity to effect after being hit once maybe, or some form of shortterm cc immunity added to stunbreakers.

 

All the talk about how bad it is to have damage on cc skills is just smokescreen that draws your attention away from the real problems, which lie in how the CC effects work. Not in how many other stuff is/is not attached to the same skills.

That gets more into how they reworked Stability before HoT though. If Stab was reverted to flat immunity to CC for its duration then CC would not be as much as a problem as far as CC-lock is concerned and we would not be in this discussion on why CCs now don't do damage.