Janitsu.6284 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said: It's been used only in the Samarog record. If it's been used in others (which it hasn't) please provide links and evidence. A class being meta on one fight between both Fractals and Raids isn't a good metric of how well a class is doing. https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/k3assw/slothasor_1min_24sec_speedkill_by_refine_hc/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTubAOUUbrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHsKlSlo2w https://dps.report/2CWD-20210312-231502_sam https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n9c5e2/deimos_record_by_the_hybridosaurus_aves_209/ 24 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said: provide high level damage output, much moreso than Herald's pathetic 30k. Those three are particularly bad examples when comparing to Herald. They simply are not; none of them can provide exactly what Herald can provide. The fact that things fill a certain niche doesn't mean that they need to be more generalist in the role that they fill. Herald allows everyone else to go much more aggressive with Facet of Nature (and can act as the solo healer on bosses with Shiro F2) and when accompanied with a Moa Stance SLB, some supports can forego having any BD. On top of that, Herald has good CC and brings AP. Tempest doesn't bring any unique buffs and has same might and fury without the other boons. DD, DE and Tempest have seen less play for the past year than Herald in both pug and record setting. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janitsu.6284 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said: It is important to know why it was used in those records which were for sloth, samarog, and deimos. For sloth + samarog, it was mainly used for staff 5 cc since those bosses both have multiple large defiance bars and large hitboxes that need to be broken both quickly and frequently so a pretty niche use. Deimos use was even more niche where it was to give alacrity to an NPC instead of the rest of the squad so that the NPC can use his super overpowered skill an extra time. In every one of these cases a second renegade would be better except that herald can replace the boons that druid would normally provide as they drop druid and run basically no heal comp which is pretty hard to do especially now that soulcleave is dead. So yeah it's meta in a few places but if you don't need absurd amount of cc or the ability to buff an NPC with alacrity it's just a very poor man's druid. You are forgetting giving AP, fixing boons without having a druid, having more damage than the class it replaces and allowing others to be more aggressive with their statsets. If you want to call it a "very poor man's druid", you might as well call cqFB a "very poor man's minstrel chrono". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 I'd wager to bet that we're not done with significant class changes across the board to align with the new elites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Janitsu.6284 said: 1 hour ago, Janitsu.6284 said: You are forgetting giving AP, fixing boons without having a druid, having more damage than the class it replaces and allowing others to be more aggressive with their statsets. If you want to call it a "very poor man's druid", you might as well call cqFB a "very poor man's minstrel chrono". 1 hour ago, Janitsu.6284 said: 1 hour ago, Janitsu.6284 said: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/k3assw/slothasor_1min_24sec_speedkill_by_refine_hc/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTubAOUUbrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHsKlSlo2w https://dps.report/2CWD-20210312-231502_sam https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n9c5e2/deimos_record_by_the_hybridosaurus_aves_209/ They simply are not; none of them can provide exactly what Herald can provide. The fact that things fill a certain niche doesn't mean that they need to be more generalist in the role that they fill. Herald allows everyone else to go much more aggressive with Facet of Nature (and can act as the solo healer on bosses with Shiro F2) and when accompanied with a Moa Stance SLB, some supports can forego having any BD. On top of that, Herald has good CC and brings AP. Tempest doesn't bring any unique buffs and has same might and fury without the other boons. DD, DE and Tempest have seen less play for the past year than Herald in both pug and record setting. You are extremely over estimating facet of nature, shiro f2 is about 150 hp per second with 50% uptime, your group will passively die to boss aura ticks if you are counting on that as a "solo heal". Glint f2 is 20% boon duration with 50% uptime (comparable to traited tactics banner which never sees use despite also bringing healing power) it let's supports swap out 2 pieces of diviners for berserker which while it is something it is not much. Regardless we can agree herald has a small niche as a support for supports who are either incompetent or are in the minority willing to min max their gear to greed some extra dps. It is rarely used and no where close to meta defining while being the lowest dps elite spec aside from like druid despite having a good foundation to make power damage builds off of unlike druid. Why are you so opposed to making it a little better in general and even defending anet nerfing it when they could easily nerf the actually very meta renegade, which is better than herald at almost everything except sharing the most readily available boons in the game. These are just dumb changes from anet and it's absurd that anyone is defending them. Edited June 10, 2021 by ArthurDent.9538 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobber.6348 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Glad I no longer play Rev, nor the game in general. If Anet wants to kill the game so be it, I don't give two turds anymore. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 On 6/10/2021 at 5:33 PM, ArthurDent.9538 said: You are extremely over estimating facet of nature, shiro f2 is about 150 hp per second with 50% uptime, your group will passively die to boss aura ticks if you are counting on that as a "solo heal". Glint f2 is 20% boon duration with 50% uptime (comparable to traited tactics banner which never sees use despite also bringing healing power) it let's supports swap out 2 pieces of diviners for berserker which while it is something it is not much. Regardless we can agree herald has a small niche as a support for supports who are either incompetent or are in the minority willing to min max their gear to greed some extra dps. It is rarely used and no where close to meta defining while being the lowest dps elite spec aside from like druid despite having a good foundation to make power damage builds off of unlike druid. Why are you so opposed to making it a little better in general and even defending anet nerfing it when they could easily nerf the actually very meta renegade, which is better than herald at almost everything except sharing the most readily available boons in the game. These are just dumb changes from anet and it's absurd that anyone is defending them. That healing that with healing gear? cause i'l admit its pretty low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said: Glad I no longer play Rev, nor the game in general. If Anet wants to kill the game so be it, I don't give two turds anymore. Yeah I play on my mesmer for about 5 hours a month in wvw. The game is no longer made for you or I. It is maintained and balanced for grabbing in new players to feed the gemstore. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurDent.9538 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 58 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said: That healing that with healing gear? cause i'l admit its pretty low. It doesn't even scale off the herald's healing power, it scales off the heal power of whoever received the buff. So you can heal the healers in your group for a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 If thats so then its super niche only might be useful to heal other healers in your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucianTheAngelic.7054 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/k3assw/slothasor_1min_24sec_speedkill_by_refine_hc/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTubAOUUbrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHsKlSlo2w https://dps.report/2CWD-20210312-231502_sam https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n9c5e2/deimos_record_by_the_hybridosaurus_aves_209/ Thank you for actually providing the link; I wasn't aware it had been used in Sloth or recently in Deimos (let's be real, Escort doesn't really count). Still, I'll echo ArthurDent's previous comments in that "Herald is still a poor man's druid in almost all situations." I'll also add that GENERALLY "it's a poor man's renegade or a poor man's dps" as well. 8 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said: They simply are not; none of them can provide exactly what Herald can provide. The fact that things fill a certain niche doesn't mean that they need to be more generalist in the role that they fill. Herald allows everyone else to go much more aggressive with Facet of Nature (and can act as the solo healer on bosses with Shiro F2) and when accompanied with a Moa Stance SLB, some supports can forego having any BD. On top of that, Herald has good CC and brings AP. Tempest doesn't bring any unique buffs and has same might and fury without the other boons. I wasn't saying "those classes provide exactly what Herald provides." That was never my argument. What I am saying is that in terms of damage and viability, DD/DE/Tempest are far more viable generally (I really don't care usually about the highest end speedruns, but general acceptance and general viability) than Herald and far outclass the spec in dps. In terms of Support, Tempest is a far better IN GENERAL at support than Herald. Most groups would be far better served with a Tempest over a Herald. Even with Herald performing well in these few speedruns doesn't make it a good GENERAL class to play. 8 hours ago, Janitsu.6284 said: DD, DE and Tempest have seen less play for the past year than Herald in both pug and record setting. That's definitely not true. The only Herald I've seen in the past several years in Raids during pugs is me. However, I frequently see DD/DE as DPS and Tempests as Druid replacements or 2nd healers. I've even seen far more Spellbreakers, Reapers, and Scrappers (pre quickness buff) than Heralds. So not sure where you're getting "they're more common in pug settings" because that's 1000% not my experience at all or anyone that I know or have encountered. For years. Edited June 10, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katary.7096 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/9/2021 at 9:02 PM, Lighter.5631 said: all i see is they are making the next elite spec power guaranteed now. I've seen similar statements from a number of players now and I don't quite follow their train of thought. It does make sense to give Revenant a power damage focused elite specialization next, sure. But over the last, say, 18 months when you saw balance changes, which the developers actually made to the game, how many times were you thinking: "That doesn't make any sense." Or: "Do they even play their game?!" I am puzzled that the feedback for most balance patches usually concludes that Arenanet can't balance the game, while people then state that the balancing for the 3rd elite specialization is totally going to make sense, that this time around the devs will do a good job, as opposed to messing it up, like they did with core Rev, then Herald, then Renegade. Seems to me like opposing points of view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobaniec.9561 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Meme balance, meme class, meme balance team. In b4 overtuned gs elite spec and everyone hyped up again. Forgetting it gonna get clunked and nerfed to kitten as well like everything else. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/10/2021 at 7:22 AM, Janitsu.6284 said: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/k3assw/slothasor_1min_24sec_speedkill_by_refine_hc/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTubAOUUbrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxHsKlSlo2w https://dps.report/2CWD-20210312-231502_sam https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/n9c5e2/deimos_record_by_the_hybridosaurus_aves_209/ They simply are not; none of them can provide exactly what Herald can provide. The fact that things fill a certain niche doesn't mean that they need to be more generalist in the role that they fill. Herald allows everyone else to go much more aggressive with Facet of Nature (and can act as the solo healer on bosses with Shiro F2) and when accompanied with a Moa Stance SLB, some supports can forego having any BD. On top of that, Herald has good CC and brings AP. Tempest doesn't bring any unique buffs and has same might and fury without the other boons. DD, DE and Tempest have seen less play for the past year than Herald in both pug and record setting. Support Rev with no Ventari... ::sad centaur noises:: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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