So when are pets gonna be put at a reasonable level?

[Abyssisis.3971]

Stop complaining and just kill the pet!!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

While I agree not everything needs a neon sign, I think a 2 second knockdown is part of that neon sign group and that if there -is- a big neon sign on a skill, it needs to be set properly.  Smokescale already has the indicator, it's just bugged/not properly set. We've already established there are situations where the knockdown doesn't follow a set pattern, so it should be reasonable to expect the skill itself to properly indicate the knockdown, since it attempts to do so already by design. 

 

(not to mention the knockdown should also only be 1 second according to the tooltip, but that's apparently another can of worms entirely)

 

 

Good to know, but this doesn't change my opinion on the KD itself.

 

I actually agree with you here on this point. But the reason why the tells on smokescale KD seem small is because of all the other pixel explosion going on in the game.

 

There is a dull sound queue that happens with the smokescale CC as well as a sort of dull white pulse around him. If you were out PvEing in Queensdale and attacking deer, it would be really easy to hear and notice those tells. But on node in pvp with all the other very loud noises going on and all the pixel spam, that dull sound queue and dull white pulse around the smokescale gets seriously muffled out, even in 1v1s.

 

In my opinion it's not that the smokescale has too little tells, it's that too many things in the game are absolutely intrusive with how much sound/pixel spam they bring to the table. Have you ever really stopped and paid attention to what it looks like and sounds to face a DH or any Mesmer as example, compared to an SD Thief or even a Spellbreaker? SD Thief vs. Spellbreaker is WAY quieter and WAY less pixel spam than a DH vs. Mesmer. Very serious example here: You could be standing on the edge of mid in Khylo and look over at your home node to see your Spellbreaker 1v1ing an SD Thief. You will not be able to hear anything going on with the Spellbreaker vs. SD Thief. But if it were DH vs. Mesmer, it would sound like a train wreck happening through your speakers as soon as you got within 3000 or 4000 range of that 1v1, and you'd be lucky to even see the character models through all the visual clutter.

 

My point in bringing that up ^ is that if we took the route of increasing sound & visual queues to keep up with that stuff, then it just makes it worse. What they really need to do is cut out some of the incredibly unnecessary visual/sound queue madness. LIke uuh, they could afford to make DH traps 50% transparent when they trigger, as a single example of what I mean. Another example of what I mean would be dulling down Mesmer clone auto attack sounds, so you can actually hear things happening around you that aren't Mesmer clones.

[anduriell.6280]

On 6/15/2021 at 1:42 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Every single bit of time that they have invested into Ranger within the past 3 or 4 years as been repeat machine gun nerfing Druid over and over and over and over.

 

That's what happened.

And Soulbeast, nerfs every time there is any change. To be honest i am surprised Anet didn't nerf OWP for competitive in the last patch.

 

It always the same with ranger, because core is so outdated and clunky state deppending on meme skills the only way the new spec can be relevant is to make it a meme noob stomper. 

 

The same will happen with the new specialization, it will come out totally obnoxious and then after a short while it will be nerfed until it becomes annoying to play. There is so much anybody can do with just one traitline of three.  Remember my words. 

[Shao.7236]

21 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I guess this topic did start by someone getting owned by a literal drake, so a lot of these words are going to fall on deaf ears anyway.  

What if you're the one unable to do much and rely on a overpowered mechanic to compensate for your lack of ability? Ever had that come to your mind?

 

Most professions have to do way more than they used to for success, Ranger pets have yet to be fully overhauled.

 

Smokescale keeps being brought up as an argument which is completely irrelevant to OP, most rangers play without Drake or Tiger, even Jaracanda (Easily avoided) or Gazelle, damage is all mediocre compared those yet Rangers do fine and don't have issues to win 1v1 or stall 1v2.

 

So now adding the ability to possibly strike for 5k+ every so often on top of the already reliable performance is justified by? While everyone has to get nerfed? Please do enlighten me on how that makes sense.

 

As a class mechanic, it does not compare to anything in the slightest on the new state of the game.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 minute ago, Shao.7236 said:

What if you're the one unable to do much and rely on a overpowered mechanic to compensate for your lack of ability? Ever had that come to your mind?

 

Most professions have to do way more than they used to for success, Ranger pets have yet to be fully overhauled.

 

Smokescale keeps being brought up as an argument which is completely irrelevant to OP, most rangers play without Drake or Tiger, even Jaracanda (Easily avoided) or Gazelle, damage is all mediocre compared those yet Rangers do fine and don't have issues to win 1v1 or stall 1v2.

 

So now adding the ability to possibly strike for 5k+ every so often on top of the already reliable performance is justified by? While everyone has to get nerfed? Please do enlighten me on how that makes sense.

 

As a class mechanic, it does not compare to anything in the slightest on the new state of the game.

 

If you are calling pets an OP mechanic then you've clearly never touched ranger.  

[Kuma.1503]

3 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

What if you're the one unable to do much and rely on a overpowered mechanic to compensate for your lack of ability? Ever had that come to your mind?

 

Most professions have to do way more than they used to for success, Ranger pets have yet to be fully overhauled.

 

Smokescale keeps being brought up as an argument which is completely irrelevant to OP, most rangers play without Drake or Tiger, even Jaracanda (Easily avoided) or Gazelle, damage is all mediocre compared those yet Rangers do fine and don't have issues to win 1v1 or stall 1v2.

 

So now adding the ability to possibly strike for 5k+ every so often on top of the already reliable performance is justified by? While everyone has to get nerfed? Please do enlighten me on how that makes sense.

 

As a class mechanic, it does not compare to anything in the slightest on the new state of the game.

 There are some ludicrous class mechanics out there to be fair. 

 

Necro gets a second health bar and an extra 5 skills on top of their base kit. 

Ele has attunements (As weaver, this is effectively an extra two weapon swaps with a 3 second cooldown).

 

One issue I can see with fighting ranger is the difference in congnitive load between their ranger and the opponent. The ranger simply has to pet swap on cooldown and let the AI do their thing in most situtions. Their opponenet has to track what the ranger is doing while simultaneously keeping tabs on the pet. 

 

Anet could ease this burden with some animation tweaks. For example, having the smokescale perform a sharp movement before it performs the knockdown. Something that you'd easily notice out of the corner of your eye. Ideally, this would be a movement that is easily readable without the need for particles, because (as Trevor pointed out) this game has more than enough of those. 

 

 

 

[Shao.7236]

38 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

If you are calling pets an OP mechanic then you've clearly never touched ranger.  

Why is everyone always avoiding the argument? At this point the fact is pretty obvious, y'all just want to keep the stupid co-efficients for yourself.

 

The mechanic isn't OP because it's a pet, the mechanic is OP because the values reward too much. Is it really that hard to grasp?

 

Edit: And that is all not mentioning how you can still CC someone 3 times while in downstate as a Ranger, then get revived faster seconds later, THEN if the pet gets KO from the cleave and you somehow manage to get the skill to go off again, your pet will revive you and be immune to all form of damage/CC. This is not me complaining, just stating the fact among all the other things. What I am just concerned the most about right now is the untouched co-efficients that are unnecessarily high and "reward" too much for the simple thing that it is when Rangers are "capable" without it. That's my real complain.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[Kuma.1503]

31 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Why is everyone always avoiding the argument? At this point the fact is pretty obvious, y'all just want to keep the stupid co-efficients for yourself.

 

 

I get your frustration, but lets take a step back and consider the context here. Ranger is a mid to mid-high tier class in current patching. It's not blatantly overperforming in the same way that Holo, Scourge, or (arguably) Renegade are atm. We've also seen a lot of... emotionally charged nerf posts in the past that have inspired some less than ideal changes. Many of which to the ranger class itself. 

 

Even if you're not a ranger main, anyone with an investment in more than easy matches or seeing their own class succeed could be forgiven for looking at ranger and saying "There's nothing immediately problematic here". This is regardless of whether or not pets actually are OP. 

 

There doesn't have to be malicious/selfish intent behind it.

 

In regards to your other point... I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Value's reward too highly". I'd rather not argue a completely separate point than the one you're making. Are you saying that landing pet skills are too rewarding proportional to the effort/risk? Or that the reward is simply too high in relation to the rest of the game?

 

If it's the latter, that does bring us into a discussion about Ranger's "Power budget" and where power has been allocated within the class. 

 

The idea is that Rangers (sans pet) are weaker by default than every other class. This is because part of their power budget was invested into the pet. When you add on the pet you have a complete class. 

 

This also means that, you can have moments like the ones you describe that feel unfair to play against. Even if pets are only 30% of the ranger's overall power, if that 30% is delivered to you in spike damage (you take a 5-7k spike, and then the damage falls off to the level of a weak DoT) In the moment that 7k spike hits you the natural response is "wtf is that. You get to deal relevant damage while also having a pet that crits for 7k? That's absurd". 

 

This ignores every moment where the pet was gaining effectively zero value because it was either out of range, dead, crippled, or aggroed onto something useless like a mesmer clone. The moment that spike hits that's the moment that sticks out in our mind. 

 

The way I see the situation. Ranger isn't OP. Pets aren't OP, but because of how the budget of power was set up and how it's delivered, it can create moments that feel OP, even when the reality is that Ranger is outclassed in most situations. 

 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

54 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Why is everyone always avoiding the argument? At this point the fact is pretty obvious, y'all just want to keep the stupid co-efficients for yourself.

 

The mechanic isn't OP because it's a pet, the mechanic is OP because the values reward too much. Is it really that hard to grasp?

 

Edit: And that is all not mentioning how you can still CC someone 3 times while in downstate as a Ranger, then get revived faster seconds later, THEN if the pet gets KO from the cleave and you somehow manage to get the skill to go off again, your pet will revive you and be immune to all form of damage/CC. This is not me complaining, just stating the fact among all the other things. What I am just concerned the most about right now is the untouched co-efficients that are unnecessarily high and "reward" too much for the simple thing that it is when Rangers are "capable" without it. That's my real complain.

 

Downstate argument...yeah never touched a ranger.  

 

There is no avoiding an argument, because there is no argument.  Those of us with many hours on ranger have seen these topics countless times over the years. 

 

It is quite simply a 'learn to play' issue.  

[Shao.7236]

1 minute ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Downstate argument...yeah never touched a ranger.  

 

There is no avoiding an argument, because there is no argument.  Those of us with many hours on ranger have seen these topics countless times over the years. 

 

It is quite simply a 'learn to play' issue.  

It's not an argument, it's a fact. I even said it and you're dead set to tell me otherwise. Dense AF.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

51 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

It's not an argument, it's a fact. I even said it and you're dead set to tell me otherwise. Dense AF.

 

I'm not the one getting hit by tail swipe...but ok. 

 

Could at least post a pet that people use to make your case lol; that's not even empty jab either, there is a reason people took the topic the way of smokescale because that's a pet people use.  

 

Nefing damage coefficients isn't going to stop a ranger from cc'ing you to death btw (pet or no pet) 

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

 

I get your frustration, but lets take a step back and consider the context here. Ranger is a mid to mid-high tier class in current patching. It's not blatantly overperforming in the same way that Holo, Scourge, or (arguably) Renegade are atm. We've also seen a lot of... emotionally charged nerf posts in the past that have inspired some less than ideal changes. Many of which to the ranger class itself. 

 

Even if you're not a ranger main, anyone with an investment in more than easy matches or seeing their own class succeed could be forgiven for looking at ranger and saying "There's nothing immediately problematic here". This is regardless of whether or not pets actually are OP. 

 

There doesn't have to be malicious/selfish intent behind it.

 

In regards to your other point... I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Value's reward too highly". I'd rather not argue a completely separate point than the one you're making. Are you saying that landing pet skills are too rewarding proportional to the effort/risk? Or that the reward is simply too high in relation to the rest of the game?

 

If it's the latter, that does bring us into a discussion about Ranger's "Power budget" and where power has been allocated within the class. 

 

The idea is that Rangers (sans pet) are weaker by default than every other class. This is because part of their power budget was invested into the pet. When you add on the pet you have a complete class. 

 

This also means that, you can have moments like the ones you describe that feel unfair to play against. Even if pets are only 30% of the ranger's overall power, if that 30% is delivered to you in spike damage (you take a 5-7k spike, and then the damage falls off to the level of a weak DoT) In the moment that 7k spike hits you the natural response is "wtf is that. You get to deal relevant damage while also having a pet that crits for 7k? That's absurd". 

 

This ignores every moment where the pet was gaining effectively zero value because it was either out of range, dead, crippled, or aggroed onto something useless like a mesmer clone. The moment that spike hits that's the moment that sticks out in our mind. 

 

The way I see the situation. Ranger isn't OP. Pets aren't OP, but because of how the budget of power was set up and how it's delivered, it can create moments that feel OP, even when the reality is that Ranger is outclassed in most situations. 

 

 

Very well said in my opinion

[Shao.7236]

52 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I'm not the one getting hit by tail swipe...but ok. 

 

Could at least post a pet that people use to make your case lol; that's not even empty jab either, there is a reason people took the topic the way of smokescale because that's a pet people use.  

 

Smokescale has nothing to do with the topic, even if that's all people can ever use paired with whatever. Tail Swipe is an universal skill to a family of pet, that's enough said.

 

Quote

Nefing damage coefficients isn't going to stop a ranger from cc'ing you to death btw (pet or no pet) 

I never said that was a problem either, again. Missing the point.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Shao.7236

[shadowpass.4236]

Pretty good video showing how to fight a ranger 1v2 while paying attention to the pet skills.  This was pre-feb patch too when the damage was higher and I'm not getting nuked by the pets at all.