Can we just remove invulnerability from down in WvW / (PVP Game modes)?

[Dawdler.8521]

29 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

DS is not comparable to siege at all. DS is a trivial combat mechanic that has bad consequences and got buffed from the feb patch but without it, combat continues as notmal pretty much except it’s no longer press F to win. Siege is a fundamental part of the wvw gamemode.

Why not?

 

People want to delete downstate to make combat faster and stop the cheesy comebacks.

 

We can delete doors (and thus the need for siege) to make capping faster and stop cheesy defense. 

 

Same thing. Maybe it rquire some guard and lord rebalancing but no downstate only require some rebalancing as well, right?

[bigo.9037]

Just now, Dawdler.8521 said:

Why not?

 

People want to delete downstate to make combat faster and stop the cheesy comebacks.

 

We can delete doors (and thus the need for siege) to make capping faster and stop cheesy defense. 

 

Same thing. Maybe it rquire some guard and lord rebalancing but no downstate only require some rebalancing as well, right?

But you’re changing a huge part of how wvw functions. DS isn’t as big of a factor, it’s just annoying asf when it gets abused or cheesed. 

[kash.9213]

20 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

But you’re changing a huge part of how wvw functions. DS isn’t as big of a factor, it’s just annoying asf when it gets abused or cheesed. 

DS gets no more abused than any other tool in WvW. If you can't build to finish then bring help. 

[Metzie.3012]

Quote

Can we just remove invulnerability from down in WvW / (PVP Game modes)?

 

To be honest, meanwhile, "no downed state" events are a blessing for the game mode. And should take place more often. For example (according to the current outdated system) always in the week of a matchup immediately before the re-linking (which is basically about nothing (the content of the sentence already sounds contradictory as such and is basically hilarious - meanwhile)). Never mind, so much for that.

 

Personally, I have nothing against the "game mechanic - downed state" as such, but the current state is simply not bearable in the long run. This ongoing hand-holding play style, where players are "revived" by other players (teammates), supported by appropriate "traits and skills", is just boring, often annoying and counter-productive overall ... as far as the actual fun of playing in a PvP (WvW) mode is concerned. Especially after the "BIG update" of 20/02/25 (25.02.2020), damage was generally taken out of the game (and various other changes were made), but up to the present day, there has simply been too little optimisations - especially in terms of survivability and the options that keep you alive - even through "third parties". 

 

The point mentioned in the title is certainly justified in questioning it. Especially according to the current circumstances. This can be one of the points to be considered for optimisation. Why does a player have to be invulnerable for a "short time" when he enters the down state (at all)? Personally, I have always wondered what this "nonsense" is all about in a PvP mode.

 

The current level of gameplay in WvW/PvP has reached its new "peak" long ago. And anyone who believes that EoD will change anything ... 

 

... good luck with that.

 

ANet needs more (basically more of everything) than developers playing their own game at a casual level and listening to a certain part of its "screeching" community (because they - ANet - don't know any better themselves), especially regarding PvP/WvW. They need a plan, a perspective and balls (and more than such one trick pony 20/02/25 updates) to realise such plans.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Metzie.3012
GW3 - when?

[Dawdler.8521]

13 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

But you’re changing a huge part of how wvw functions. DS isn’t as big of a factor, it’s just annoying asf when it gets abused or cheesed. 

No I'm not. People say WvW is all about fights, right? 

 

Wait.

 

Are you saying some people *like* how WvW defenses work and thus they shouldnt get deleted?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Truth be told removing insta down from warclaw was a huge mistake and they should reimplement it back. Since people are asking for no downstate this is another alternative to that solution. Allowing warclaw to kill downed players allowed smaller groups to help defend a large zerg from taking objective until more help arrives.

[Lightning Xv.8705]

Removing the invuln from  downing is probably the most middle ground option between downstate vs none. I personally prefer no downstate as it  gives the best CHANCE for the undermanned side to counter the pve ktrain. With no DS you can pick a group apart a couple at a time hopefully to the point they bail out of your keep. With DS anything you down gets IOL and signet from range or hand ressed if they are close to the group. You accomplish nothing and you're better off not attempting to defend when heavily outnumbered.

 

On 7/3/2021 at 1:54 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Truth be told removing insta down from warclaw was a huge mistake and they should reimplement it back. Since people are asking for no downstate this is another alternative to that solution. Allowing warclaw to kill downed players allowed smaller groups to help defend a large zerg from taking objective until more help arrives.

The only mistake was putting warclaw in the game mode to begin with. It didn't "allow" small groups to help defend from a large zerg  it enabled people to sit idle off the side of a battle contributing nothing until someone goes down then darting into the battle to stomp people and run away to remount and go again. So the side the with most cheerleaders gets free no downstate(which tends to be the side with more players to begin with). 

 

Sniff is a portable watchtower deleting the element of surprise completely. You used to be able to stack behind a wall, wait for it to go down then rush the blob catching them off guard and evening out the numbers before they knew what hit them. Now everyone knows where everyone else is at all times. You rarely get the drop on large groups anymore without a portal bomb.

 

The maul skill still does to much damage as a free skill. It's effected by might and other damage modifiers making it hit 8k+ for free on engage and for low hp classes a 8k hit is a must dodge attack before you even have to deal with that classes actual abilities.

 

If warclaw HAD to be added to wvw it should have been like lotro and swtor mounts. They are nothing other than a movement buff. That is it. No dodges, no damage, and no cheesy mechanics. You go from point a to point b a little faster the end.

[Salt Mode.3780]

So people complain about downstate, something that had insta down and people still complained about it because this causes big zergs to be able to be countered by a few people who can mount stomp which again is a strategy to defend objectives. Truth be told having mounts being able to insta down allowed smaller groups to feel more proactive regardless of them being idle on the side and only doing mount stomp is still better then waiting idle for a cmder to tag up to be proactive.

 

Warclaw was added into the game and its not going to be removed to the game so saying that it was a mistake or not is irrelevant because it is already in the game.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[nthmetal.9652]

On 7/4/2021 at 10:36 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Warclaw was added into the game and its not going to be removed to the game so saying that it was a mistake or not is irrelevant because it is already in the game.

I think this approach is "accepting reality" and should be applied. Also people might disagree about it being a mistake. I think it makes the WvW more dynamic and at least somewhat helps smaller servers / groups being able to defend against bigger numbers.

[Zyreva.1078]

Warclaw doesn't help smaller servers/grp at all. Doesn't make anything more dynamic either. Just makes it easier to get back to the zerg/run away and allows zergs full of zero mobility builds to chase down supposedly more mobile roamers.