Removal of Reflect

[bigo.9037]

21 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Tough cookies, not every weapon on every class works in zerg v. zerg, it's not just a ranger problem. I can't run Longbow or rifle in that situation either on warrior. But for roaming and small scale? Pop the signet and nuke the class that is using reflects, the swap to GS and maul->hilt bash->maul the next class(es) that uses reflects, swap back to Longbow and pew pew to your heart's content.

This is not a discussion about small scale. So you agree, then?? You can’t use lb.. I wonder why.. is it because of reflects???? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

37 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

This is not a discussion about small scale. So you agree, then?? You can’t use lb.. I wonder why.. is it because of reflects???? 

Original post made no distinction on the scale of the fight.

[bigo.9037]

19 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Original post made no distinction on the scale of the fight.

No, but *I* did, because that’s where it’s a legitimate problem.

Edited July 6, 2021 by bigo.9037

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

No, but *I* did.

And I'm talking in regards to the OP's topic in general. Don't like reflects, then take Signet of the Hunt. Don't like being useless in a zerg, then take a zerg build. That or run Longbow anyway and use the signet to snipe people, then be cautious where you aim the longbow until the signet is off CD. 

[bigo.9037]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

And I'm talking in regards to the OP's topic in general. Don't like reflects, then take Signet of the Hunt. Don't like being useless in a zerg, then take a zerg build. That or run Longbow anyway and use the signet to snipe people, then be cautious where you aim the longbow until the signet is off CD. 

Don’t like a small aspect of gw2 that you’d like to get changed? Just uninstall the game. 
 

this mentality doesn’t get us anywhere. 
 

You replied to MY reply, quoting me but then started talking about a different scale entirely than what I was talking about. 
 

my point here is that clearly ranger is not the only class suffering from this over abundance of reflects and projectile blocks. You said it yourself. I don’t see why certain classes like revenant, mesmer (despite being overnerfed sadly) get to have long ranged attacks that aren’t projectile based. That’s literally the only reason herald is being played in blobs. Why exactly.. is it OK for herald to essentially ignore all projectile blocks and reflects meanwhile other classes or specs can’t? 
 

At the very least, the uptime of projectile blocks and anti projectile blocks (not saying there should be more unblockable, just for projectile blocks and reflects.)  should be close to 50/50 in large scale combat. Firebrands , scrappers and tempests basically make it completely impossible to even hit their party with any projectiles whatsoever. Their projectile reflects are SPAMMABLE. Meanwhile unblockable you get 6 hits every 40s or even worse on some classes probably.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

Don’t like a small aspect of gw2 that you’d like to get changed? Just uninstall the game. 
 

this mentality doesn’t get us anywhere. 
 

You replied to MY reply, quoting me but then started talking about a different scale entirely than what I was talking about. 
 

Which was you quoting me replying to someone else in an attempt to redirect the whole thread to Zerg fighting when that was not the thread topic.

7 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

my point here is that clearly ranger is not the only class suffering from this over abundance of reflects and projectile blocks. You said it yourself. I don’t see why certain classes like revenant, mesmer (despite being overnerfed sadly) get to have long ranged attacks that aren’t projectile based. That’s literally the only reason herald is being played in blobs. Why exactly.. is it OK for herald to essentially ignore all projectile blocks and reflects meanwhile other classes or specs can’t? 
 

Each class has more of some counters than others. Necro for instance has very little stability, meanwhile a warrior can have decent uptime of unblockable from a single trait and utility skill. The classes all have their strengths and weaknesses.

7 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

At the very least, the uptime of projectile blocks and anti projectile blocks (not saying there should be more unblockable, just for projectile blocks and reflects.)  should be close to 50/50 in large scale combat. Firebrands , scrappers and tempests basically make it completely impossible to even hit their party with any projectiles whatsoever. Their projectile reflects are SPAMMABLE. Meanwhile unblockable you get 6 hits every 40s or even worse on some classes probably.

The problem is more that they are defensive CDs that scale by the number of people using them and have nothing inherently to do with the fact that reflects exist. They could make all the reflect CDs 300s, and the said classes would still just coordinate cycling through them. The bigger issue is that they turned Unblockable into a stacked buff rather than a straight duration buff. One of the many failures in balance from the past 1.5 years.

[Lazze.9870]

23 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Good thing rangers don't need to camp projectile weapons then.

 

Well, that is main issue ranger has for wvw zerging. Weapons. Greatsword is great in close range clashes, but a major part of the damage being dealt in zerg vs zerg is medium to long ranged non-projectile aoe. Necro wells, shades and various weapon aoes, different guardian skills, rev hammer etc. Ranger is stuck on axes or longbow as the second weaponset and a bunch of those attacks dwindles into nothing because they are projectile based. Longbow also not piercing without a trait means you have to swap out Skirmishing for Marksmanship which is less optimal for damage.

 

If soulbeast had a weapon similar to rev hammer, it would have a solid spot as a dps with some stance support.

 

On an unrelated note, Signet of Hunt is garbage and not a solution for anything except sniping one specific target on a large interval. 40 seconds for 6 unblockable attacks with a useless passive. At least the warrior equivalent gives power on passive and even some might stacks on activation - on a shorter cooldown, even.

 

Edit: I don't understand how someone can react to this with "confused", I'm pretty much stating the obvious.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[bigo.9037]

13 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Which was you quoting me replying to someone else in an attempt to redirect the whole thread to Zerg fighting when that was not the thread topic.

Each class has more of some counters than others. Necro for instance has very little stability, meanwhile a warrior can have decent uptime of unblockable from a single trait and utility skill. The classes all have their strengths and weaknesses.

The problem is more that they are defensive CDs that scale by the number of people using them and have nothing inherently to do with the fact that reflects exist. They could make all the reflect CDs 300s, and the said classes would still just coordinate cycling through them. The bigger issue is that they turned Unblockable into a stacked buff rather than a straight duration buff. One of the many failures in balance from the past 1.5 years.

Yes. So why are there no AOE buff “unable to be projectile blocked or reflected” buffs that you can cycle through? That’s what I’m asking for. Even before the recent change to ranger WH, the unblockable effext was 4 hits and only applied to pet meaning yourself or a dead weight npc. 

[Kodama.6453]

Reflects are way more skillful than retaliation, considering that they are way more restricted in uptime and also in most cases well telegraphed.

 

When I saw enemies in PvP getting killed by my retaliation (which has a pretty big uptime), it just felt dirty, because it was absolutely passive with no input from me.

Meanwhile if I down an enemy by using electro-whirl from scrapper hammer to reflect their rapid fire, that feels way more deserved.

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

No, but *I* did, because that’s where it’s a legitimate problem.

Except that's not a problem, because every weapon doesn't need to excel at everything. Not for ranger, not for anyone else.

[bigo.9037]

12 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Except that's not a problem, because every weapon doesn't need to excel at everything. Not for ranger, not for anyone else.

Yea. Only fb scourge scrapper, tempest and herald are welcome. Sorry wvwers, other classes can suck it. 

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

Yea. Only fb scourge scrapper, tempest and herald are welcome. Sorry wvwers, other classes can suck it. 

Cry about overperforming classes/specs/builds then, because it has nothing to do with some weird push for reflect removal (or even my previous comment you pretended to be answering to).

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[The Boz.2038]

16 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

it's not just a ranger problem

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I PROPOSED THIS.

Yet all I get are "lol ranger" replies. smh

[Dadnir.5038]

16 hours ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

give range players a melee reflec shield than we can see how they cry everywhere when we can make all their weapon specs useless like it is now with range weapons

 

Are you aware that ranger have:

"Projectile Reflect": https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

"Melee Reflect": https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Unity_(non-celestial)

 

16 hours ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

and i mean for real why is it nearly only the ranger who needs perma change weapons to do something?

mesmer can use all time just greatsword or other range weapon without a need to perma switch

dragon hunter dont need to perma switch he can just use all time longbow 

deadeye never need to switch he can use rifle all time 

and i bet more classes never need to switch to be able to do something

 

DH longbow and DE riffle are both punished by reflect as much as Ranger is. Elementalist's whole profession design force him to switch element to have even a shred of effectiveness, Engineer is often reliant on kits, Core necromancer and reaper have to rotate between shroud and out of shroud, A lot of Warriors don't even imagine playing their profession without Fast hand which increase the rate at which they can switch weapon...

 

It's the opposite of what you think, switching weapon is vital for most professions. Heck, you should be happy to be able to do so, revenant, engineer and elementalist kneeled and begged ANet to allow them to switch weapons.

 

If you're really jealous of mesmer's camping GS, play druid and camp staff. You might not deal as much damage as the mesmer but you'll have more sustain and mobility.

[anduriell.6280]

3 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Are you aware that ranger have:

"Projectile Reflect": https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

"Melee Reflect": https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Unity_(non-celestial)

 

DH longbow and DE riffle are both punished by reflect as much as Ranger is. Elementalist's whole profession design force him to switch element to have even a shred of effectiveness, Engineer is often reliant on kits, Core necromancer and reaper have to rotate between shroud and out of shroud, A lot of Warriors don't even imagine playing their profession without Fast hand which increase the rate at which they can switch weapon...

 

It's the opposite of what you think, switching weapon is vital for most professions. Heck, you should be happy to be able to do so, revenant, engineer and elementalist kneeled and begged ANet to allow them to switch weapons.

 

If you're really jealous of mesmer's camping GS, play druid and camp staff. You might not deal as much damage as the mesmer but you'll have more sustain and mobility.

Actually the only class as punished as the ranger is DE. Dh has plenty of access to ranged AoE to be able to ignore the reflects. 

 

The issue for ranger is all it's weapons contain some form or projectile in the most impactful skill, Staff included with Astral_Wisp . So the most impactful skill in the staff can and will be reflected too. 

 

As such i understand reflects have a place in the game but ranger is the most punished for no clear reason and it has the less reliable access to unblockable with just a signet which only provides that with a 40s CD. 

 

So if not the removal or projectile hate at least ranger should have more constant access to unblockables as means to fight the constant projectile hate in this game. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Actually the only class as punished as the ranger is DE. Dh has plenty of access to ranged AoE to be able to ignore the reflects. 

As far as I know, if you build properly you can use barrage every 10s which is in no way inferior to what DH offer in term of ranged AoE.

 

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

The issue for ranger is all it's weapons contain some form or projectile in the most impactful skill, Staff included with Astral_Wisp . So the most impactful skill in the staff can and will be reflected too.

You don't use those skills when facing reflect, then you got no problem. GS don't have projectiles, sword don't have projectiles, dagger main hand don't have projectiles, Warhorn don't have projectiles, I wouldn't qualify throw torch and crippling talon as most impactful skills.

 

Also, Astral wisp isn't really "impactful", it deal damage, sure, in a more impactful way than the other skills? That's arguable. Ancestral grace movement is impactful, vine surge imobilize effect is impactful, even sublime conversion is impactful (especially against player that believe only projectiles are impactful).

 

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

 

As such i understand reflects have a place in the game but ranger is the most punished for no clear reason and it has the less reliable access to unblockable with just a signet which only provides that with a 40s CD. 

Every profession is equal in front of reflect. It force them to use other mean just like it force ranger to use other mean. In this, unblockable is merely a way to cheat yourself out of the restriction that reflect make you face.

 

Some professions don't have access to unblockable, they have skills that are unblockable by design, just like entangle or ranger's traps but that's all. Which make the statement of having the "less reliable access to unblockable" arguable.

 

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

So if not the removal or projectile hate at least ranger should have more constant access to unblockables as means to fight the constant projectile hate in this game. 

You're free to turn a blind eye on the options you have when you face reflect effect. However acting like that doesn't make your claims appear very serious.

 

The ranger do have options that you might not like, still it doesn't mean that these options can't be used. ANet might even see the drake as a moving ranged aoe unaffected by projectile block for example (after all their AA cleave while tail swip and their breath can hit up to 5 foes) and some pet offer ranged aoe like jacaranda, spider, iboga or devourer (spider's is even unblockable, while jacaranda's can't be reflected). You'll say that it suck in large scale WvW, and yes most does but you got the option. I mean, a SB unleashing barrage and call lightning on short CD have nothing to be jealous from a DH in regard of ranged AoE.

[anduriell.6280]

44 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

As far as I know, if you build properly you can use barrage every 10s which is in no way inferior to what DH offer in term of ranged AoE.

 

You don't use those skills when facing reflect, then you got no problem. GS don't have projectiles, sword don't have projectiles, dagger main hand don't have projectiles, Warhorn don't have projectiles, I wouldn't qualify throw torch and crippling talon as most impactful skills.

 

Also, Astral wisp isn't really "impactful", it deal damage, sure, in a more impactful way than the other skills? That's arguable. Ancestral grace movement is impactful, vine surge imobilize effect is impactful, even sublime conversion is impactful (especially against player that believe only projectiles are impactful).

 

Every profession is equal in front of reflect. It force them to use other mean just like it force ranger to use other mean. In this, unblockable is merely a way to cheat yourself out of the restriction that reflect make you face.

 

Some professions don't have access to unblockable, they have skills that are unblockable by design, just like entangle or ranger's traps but that's all. Which make the statement of having the "less reliable access to unblockable" arguable.

 

You're free to turn a blind eye on the options you have when you face reflect effect. However acting like that doesn't make your claims appear very serious.

 

The ranger do have options that you might not like, still it doesn't mean that these options can't be used. ANet might even see the drake as a moving ranged aoe unaffected by projectile block for example (after all their AA cleave while tail swip and their breath can hit up to 5 foes) and some pet offer ranged aoe like jacaranda, spider, iboga or devourer (spider's is even unblockable, while jacaranda's can't be reflected). You'll say that it suck in large scale WvW, and yes most does but you got the option. I mean, a SB unleashing barrage and call lightning on short CD have nothing to be jealous from a DH in regard of ranged AoE.

This answer clearly reflects your bias  against the ranger class. I can not go point by point because this would become another text wall so i will focus in a couple of points. But if you have questions i'll be glad to answer them. 

 

Not every proffesion  is the same: DH LB has the symbol in the weapon, but also has the spirit weapon with is a ranged AoE attack. You may not like it but you have the opportunity. DH is indeed not the best positioned against projectile hate but is in a better situation than let's say a DE and definitely ranger. 

 

Astral Wisp is the most impactful skill from the staff. I would advise you to read carefuly the wiki about the rest of the skills. After all the nerfs Swoop feels better than Ancestral grace. Barrage  under real usage will not get under 16s CD and i would advise your to stop reading traits in the wiki with no context.  

 

Funny you use melee weapons as an examples to counter for reflects. 

 

Ranger does not have options, the class is not designed to stay in melee but play between ranges. You would know that  if you played with it.  And from all the weapon combinations (that is the 5 skills) there is only one which does not have a projectile attack: Greatsword. And even that one used to have one. 

 

No other access to ranged AoEs. No teleports or blinks to close gap. Even leaps are very limited in CD or distance. And no blocks or immunities the class can use. 

 

And now the reflects are AoE, one caster can apply reflections to  multiple targets and even in most situations the skill animation is not drawn because of the distance. 

 

My point is there is place for reflects in game. But anet needs to balance around that and specialy ranger  because the class is completely shut down as soon as an elementalist, firebrand or scrapper is around. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I PROPOSED THIS.

Yet all I get are "lol ranger" replies. smh

Because it was a typical ranger thing to do man. 

[Dadnir.5038]

56 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Barrage  under real usage will not get under 16s CD and i would advise your to stop reading traits in the wiki with no context. 

Ah Ok, Quick draw won't reduce barrage CD by 66% then if I believe you.

 

59 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Ranger does not have options, the class is not designed to stay in melee but play between ranges. You would know that  if you played with it.  And from all the weapon combinations (that is the 5 skills) there is only one which does not have a projectile attack: Greatsword. And even that one used to have one. 

That's your prejudices showing there. The ranger don't have any less than other professions when it come to melee. It got strike damage nullification, block, dodge, evade skills, it can weaken, gain protection, transfert damage to it's pet... etc. It even got barrier.

 

Also you forget WH in you claims, warhorn does not have projectiles which technically make 3 weapons conbination without projectiles, not a single one. Hey! Warriors got projectiles on LB, Riffle, GS, OH sword, axe main hand and even OH mace do you see them complain about how unfair reflect is?

 

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

No other access to ranged AoEs. No teleports or blinks to close gap. Even leaps are very limited in CD or distance. And no blocks or immunities the class can use. 

Nonsense.

[anduriell.6280]

21 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Ah Ok, Quick draw won't reduce barrage CD by 66% then if I believe you.

 

That's your prejudices showing there. The ranger don't have any less than other professions when it come to melee. It got strike damage nullification, block, dodge, evade skills, it can weaken, gain protection, transfert damage to it's pet... etc. It even got barrier.

 

Also you forget WH in you claims, warhorn does not have projectiles which technically make 3 weapons conbination without projectiles, not a single one. Hey! Warriors got projectiles on LB, Riffle, GS, OH sword, axe main hand and even OH mace do you see them complain about how unfair reflect is?

1. Warhorn can be blocked too, it is not a projectile but behaves like one. I think it can be reflected too, i am not sure as i haven't used that weapon for years. 
2. The first attack after swapping weapons. Not the ideal combo when we are talking about a rooting 2.5 cast skill with barrage. It works well with other weapons, i am not saying the trait is any bad thou. 
3. Curious you bring warrior up: compare Signet of Might to  Signet of the Hunt. Do you see how unfair is the treatment ranger is getting from Anet devs? 

 

 See? i'd preffer you asking instead showing ignorance. 

 

42 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Because it was a typical ranger thing to do man. 

Yeh don't dare the ranger mains to share the concern ranger is the seriously impacted by the projectile hate in game. To the point an ele, fb or engie can completely shut down a ranger by using a 1 or 2 skills.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by anduriell.6280
added response.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

32 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Yeh don't dare the ranger mains to share the concern ranger is the seriously impacted by the projectile hate in game. To the point an ele, fb or engie can completely shut down a ranger by using a 1 or 2 skills.

Because no one else has to deal with reflects? And yet all the reflect QQ comes from Ranger players that insist on camping LB rather than weapon swapping like the rest of us plebs. Such entitlement. Much wow.

[The Boz.2038]

Your daily reminder that fully 70% of the above poster's posting history is in "omg warrior weak plz buff" threads.

And that I made the OP thinking of professions other than ranger. But "lol, ranger qq" is half the replies in here. 

[xDuckYx.4920]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Because no one else has to deal with reflects? And yet all the reflect QQ comes from Ranger players that insist on camping LB rather than weapon swapping like the rest of us plebs. Such entitlement. Much wow.

Like a DE need to be scared of reflects....he just can go perma stealth when some comes close and turn on reflects but yeah he is punished same hard as like rangers are

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

17 minutes ago, xDuckYx.4920 said:

Like a DE need to be scared of reflects....he just can go perma stealth when some comes close and turn on reflects but yeah he is punished same hard as like rangers are

A DE is hitting out of stealth from 1500 away, why would they worry about reflects? Even then they should have Dagger on the other weapon set for Malicious Backstab.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Your daily reminder that fully 70% of the above poster's posting history is in "omg warrior weak plz buff" threads.

And that I made the OP thinking of professions other than ranger. But "lol, ranger qq" is half the replies in here. 

Nice misdirection there Boz. Warrior being in actual need of buffs/traitline reworks/weapon overhauls is independent of LB rangers being unhappy about not being able to camp LB 100% of the time.