Mesmer overhaul

[AXLIB.8425]

6 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

you can definitely do massive damage on power mirage too so CS is not strictly necessary. Core is lacking though.

Ehh, care to shar the build? There is nothing in mirage trait line that help with power, and sword and greatsword ambush certainly isn't it.

Or is this a PvP thing?

 

If anything core able to take Illusion trait line probably help with the power more than mirage trait line.

Edited July 26, 2021 by AXLIB.8425

[Axl.8924]

2 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

Lmao you missed my point, that guy said Continuum Split is "broken" and "bonkers" so I made the point that distortion is also extremely strong and that's why losing distortion and getting continuum split is a good tradeoff for chronomancer.

 

Why do we have such huge dependence on a 106 sec CD to get good numbers?

 

With nec all i need to do to get good numbers is to click the axe 2 and multihit then go and turn into reaper and i do big numbers.

 

I can't even come close to doing same dps plus i don't like how they nerfed GS on mes.

[Quadox.7834]

3 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Why do we have such huge dependence on a 106 sec CD to get good numbers?

 

With nec all i need to do to get good numbers is to click the axe 2 and multihit then go and turn into reaper and i do big numbers.

 

I can't even come close to doing same dps plus i don't like how they nerfed GS on mes.

You should try power mirage, there you don't rely on a 105 sec cooldown

[AXLIB.8425]

1 minute ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Why do we have such huge dependence on a 106 sec CD to get good numbers?

 

With nec all i need to do to get good numbers is to click the axe 2 and multihit then go and turn into reaper and i do big numbers.

 

I can't even come close to doing same dps plus i don't like how they nerfed GS on mes.

Yeah it's annoying, but one thing I find useful in fractal is use focus to pull enemies together, then sword 3 and Mirror image and shatter right away, if you don't have a good team then that can burst decently, just make sure to save mirror image for the actual fight.

[Quadox.7834]

9 minutes ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Ehh, care to shar the build? There is nothing in mirage trait line that help with power, and sword and greatsword ambush certainly isn't it.

Or is this a PvP thing?

 

If anything core able to take Illusion trait line probably help with the power more than mirage trait line.

A single greatsword ambush with IH+DE can give 12 stacks of vuln (or more if you have clones out), big damage, and 25 stacks of might.

 

Sword ambush stacks vuln with domi traits which -> damage. Sword ambush clones and clone on deception give you more clone gen -> higher damage mind wracks.

 

Oh yeah sorry it is a pvp thing. Prob not viable for high level pve like raids.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Quadox.7834

[Axl.8924]

1 minute ago, Quadox.7834 said:

A single greatsword ambush with IH+DE can give 12 stacks of vuln (or more if you have clones out), big damage, and 25 stacks of might.

 

Sword ambush stacks vuln with domi traits which -> damage.

 

So is GS not taken at all for chrono DPS power?
 

part of what you said is why i like gs for power.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Quadox.7834]

2 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

So is GS not taken at all for chrono DPS power?
 

part of what you said is why i like gs for power.

I apologise, I was talking about pvp, I don't know anything about pve.

[Axl.8924]

3 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

I apologise, I was talking about pvp, I don't know anything about pve.

Ok sorry i didn't specify.

[AXLIB.8425]

15 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

I apologise, I was talking about pvp, I don't know anything about pve.

Ah, in pve GS ambush is just used for tagging and sword ambush is just a clunky leap (if the terrain is not flat then half of the time i can't even hit them with it) without much damage. Though I'm still unsure how you are getting 25 might with GS ambush.

 

30 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

mes needs a huge overhaul then if they are so dependent on 1 long cd.

I also don't like pets dying so fast and chrono feels kinda bad with having such a big sort of bridge in getting good numbers out in burst.

 

Its so awkward because by the time i get 2 out the mobs are dead.

 

Why is there this awkward build up of illusions that takes forever and i can't really bring it out fast enough to even dps? everyone's outbursting me.

 

 

I should clarify that when i say burst i mean 30k to 40k+ burst in pve, without cs you will still be hitting at least 10k to 20k+ if you are doing it right with zerker, so enough to murder most in pvp, you just not going to have anything to survive especially in zerker.

18 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

So is GS not taken at all for chrono DPS power?
 

part of what you said is why i like gs for power.

GS is a good weapon for power dps, is just sword sword and sword focus hits harder and have a good pull and block. though i want GS 3 and 5 to be looked at by anet, there is almost not a single situation those are useful (honourary mention to GS 5 in octovine south, the only time its actually useful)

[Leonidrex.5649]

5 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Ehh, care to shar the build? There is nothing in mirage trait line that help with power, and sword and greatsword ambush certainly isn't it.

Or is this a PvP thing?

 

If anything core able to take Illusion trait line probably help with the power more than mirage trait line.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAEx/lRwoYKsLmJOqXpvSA-zZILjMjgeDBNGA

Try something like this, you can switch bunch of stuff too.
Idea is to have 2-3 F1 shatters as a pressure tool, quickly drop someone to 70-60% hp, and then at any time you can 1shot them, and you can try back to back. In theory it sounds good, but in practice there is 2-3 scourges that have effectively 70k HP and you cant mathematically kill them 😄

[AXLIB.8425]

2 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAEx/lRwoYKsLmJOqXpvSA-zZILjMjgeDBNGA

Try something like this, you can switch bunch of stuff too.
Idea is to have 2-3 F1 shatters as a pressure tool, quickly drop someone to 70-60% hp, and then at any time you can 1shot them, and you can try back to back. In theory it sounds good, but in practice there is 2-3 scourges that have effectively 70k HP and you cant mathematically kill them 😄

to be fair I thought they were talking about pve build, so i got surprised, since i almost never seen a power mirage doing well in other than GS farming, but thanks nonetheless 🙂 

[Quadox.7834]

5 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAEx/lRwoYKsLmJOqXpvSA-zZILjMjgeDBNGA

Try something like this, you can switch bunch of stuff too.
Idea is to have 2-3 F1 shatters as a pressure tool, quickly drop someone to 70-60% hp, and then at any time you can 1shot them, and you can try back to back. In theory it sounds good, but in practice there is 2-3 scourges that have effectively 70k HP and you cant mathematically kill them 😄

pve

[Quadox.7834]

10 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Ah, in pve GS ambush is just used for tagging and sword ambush is just a clunky leap (if the terrain is not flat then half of the time i can't even hit them with it) without much damage. Though I'm still unsure how you are getting 25 might with GS ambush.

 

I should clarify that when i say burst i mean 30k to 40k+ burst in pve, without cs you will still be hitting at least 10k to 20k+ if you are doing it right with zerker, so enough to murder most in pvp, you just not going to have anything to survive especially in zerker.

GS is a good weapon for power dps, is just sword sword and sword focus hits harder and have a good pull and block. though i want GS 3 and 5 to be looked at by anet, there is almost not a single situation those are useful (honourary mention to GS 5 in octovine south, the only time its actually useful)

focus pull 5 enemies -> swap to gs -> ambush = 30 stacks might

[Leonidrex.5649]

ahh pve, yea you not getting more then 25k dps, other classes get that much just by auto-attacking lol

[Axl.8924]

22 hours ago, AXLIB.8425 said:

Yeah it's annoying, but one thing I find useful in fractal is use focus to pull enemies together, then sword 3 and Mirror image and shatter right away, if you don't have a good team then that can burst decently, just make sure to save mirror image for the actual fight.

 

Do you mean temporal curtain or phantasmal warden? cause those are the 2 last abilities with focus

[Obtena.7952]

Mesmer is unlikely going to get a class overhaul because of PVP. That would be a first in this game. 

[HotDelirium.7984]

Mirage should get their own shatters just like chrono did. They don't have to reinvent the wheel but it does flavor the elite a bit more.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

On 7/18/2021 at 11:36 AM, Alpha.1308 said:

let's freaking hope they AREN'T projectiles 

holy BUTTS, please, no

 

you think clones/phantasms are bad in wvw?

 

at least shatters themselves can be used for very mediocre damage around you at 0 clones, cleanses/very minor healing from inspiration, and stab/boons in chaos, not to mention distortion, which might get removed in the process of getting rid of clones   

 

but good luck getting projectiles to land

that's also why i'm hoping so much that we don't get a bow like some people kept asking for

at least not one with projectiles....

 

i get it, it's mesmer, even on a bow they don't have to actually use projectiles, it could be mind tethers for all we know

 

but dagger/spear would be a safer bet to have some form of cleaving, despite them also being.... able to be "throwing daggers" or "javelins".... urk....

 

Illusionary Weaponry as a concept has so much potential, and i hope they don't trash on it with "hhaha daggers/spears above ur head go burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

 

i'm gonna be so disgusted if that's all it's reduced to, after all these years of dealing with this trashy NPC mechanic, all we get in this game with "accidental" projectile reflect all over the freaking map is just projectiles as a class mechanic 

 

Oh boy do I got bad news for you.

[Alpha.1308]

2 hours ago, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

Oh boy do I got bad news for you.

S.A.D.

at least some skills are wells?

i just still don't understand this logic at all, considering chronos had wells... just make.... those good..... like???

there's so many options, and they just give us more of the same trashy concepts 

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

19 minutes ago, Alpha.1308 said:

S.A.D.

at least some skills are wells?

i just still don't understand this logic at all, considering chronos had wells... just make.... those good..... like???

there's so many options, and they just give us more of the same trashy concepts 

 

Seems like one of the skills is more well-like, in that it's a stationary persistent circle aoe. Well, kinda more like elementalist meteor shower.

The rest of the skills are just.... something.

[Jables.4659]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:02 PM, Junkpile.7439 said:

Core mesmer needs perma stealth. That would make one hit build viable. Now you can only one hit power spec users and often medium and heavy armor users survive. Condi necro for example doesn't die under second.

Core Mesmer is too stealth reliant as it is.  What it needs is mobility. 

[Jables.4659]

The answers here don't really fit with my overall belief, but "needs to be buffed" is closer than anything.  There are definitely things that need an overhaul.  The gimmicks on both Chronomancer and Mirage are not conducive to a balanced game.  Anet has chosen to handle this by giving them each an extremely harsh penalty that has put them both in the F-tier.  Chronomancer was doomed from the beginning and I don't see a clean solution.  Without continnum split, its just Core Mesmer with a kitten traitline and bad support skills.  Mirage could be fixed fairly easily.  My wish there is that they restore its second dodge and then remove Mirage Cloak entirely.  Ambush skills would still be usable after a normal dodge.  Apart from that, all that would need to change is infinite horizon.  Two-Dodge-Mirage with Infinite Horizon will never be acceptable in pvp modes.  The functionality of that trait would need to be changed in spvp and wvw.  As far as Core Mesmer is concerned, it just needs mobility and a few specific tweaks.  I would give it mobility by turning sword 3 into either a ground targetable teleport that immobilizes foes at the location or an actual leap like the mirage sword ambush that immobilizes foes struck.  I would also completely replace the greatsword 3 skill with a leap similar to the ranger greatsword leap.  Those two changes would vastly improve Mesmer's situation.  Obviously they need to fix Arcane Thievery, but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse on that one.  Other than that, its just trait cleanup that a lot of classes need.

[Yoci.2481]

Thats a good post @Jables.4659 that would really help and shouldn't be too hard to implement.

[Allarius.5670]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:10 AM, Jables.4659 said:

The answers here don't really fit with my overall belief, but "needs to be buffed" is closer than anything.  There are definitely things that need an overhaul.  The gimmicks on both Chronomancer and Mirage are not conducive to a balanced game.  Anet has chosen to handle this by giving them each an extremely harsh penalty that has put them both in the F-tier.  Chronomancer was doomed from the beginning and I don't see a clean solution.  Without continnum split, its just Core Mesmer with a kitten traitline and bad support skills.  Mirage could be fixed fairly easily.  My wish there is that they restore its second dodge and then remove Mirage Cloak entirely.  Ambush skills would still be usable after a normal dodge.  Apart from that, all that would need to change is infinite horizon.  Two-Dodge-Mirage with Infinite Horizon will never be acceptable in pvp modes.  The functionality of that trait would need to be changed in spvp and wvw.  As far as Core Mesmer is concerned, it just needs mobility and a few specific tweaks.  I would give it mobility by turning sword 3 into either a ground targetable teleport that immobilizes foes at the location or an actual leap like the mirage sword ambush that immobilizes foes struck.  I would also completely replace the greatsword 3 skill with a leap similar to the ranger greatsword leap.  Those two changes would vastly improve Mesmer's situation.  Obviously they need to fix Arcane Thievery, but I feel like I'm beating a dead horse on that one.  Other than that, its just trait cleanup that a lot of classes need.

 

Some implementation thoughts based on yours because why not.

 

Core, Mobility

• Sword 3. Like Mirage Thrust, but with immobilize at the end, as you suggest. A 'swap' function for a short period allowing the Mesmer to return to the initial location. The juke function of the weapon is fun and keeping that potential would be splendid.
• Greatsword 3. Flip skill with a short cast time allowing the Mesmer to port to the location initially targeted. This flip skill would require its own cooldown that is much longer, similar to Dragon Hunter F1.
• Greatsword 5. It could get the "Ripple of Horror" treatment from Lich Form. Wave travels more slowly outward and a flip skill allows the Mesmer to port to it.
• Greatsword Notes. Adding this sort of mobility to the greatsword kit would allow it to be a more self contained and internally consistent package, allowing the user built in ways to gain distance and positioning.

 

Chronomancer

• Continuum Split. Reduce cooldown to be par with Distortion. Remove cooldown reset. Keep health, endurance, and position reset. Add alacrity share from the Mesmer for the duration. Maintains defensive theme of F4, but trades invulnerability for alacrity support. This keeps the cooldown reduction theme, but with more counter play and less extreme.
• Wells. Tweak functionality such that each pulse contributes all effects, adjust individual numbers and durations of effects as needed. This would include the heal(s) contributed by "All's Well That Ends Well".

 

Mirage

• Mirage Cloak. Remove Mirage Cloak on dodge. Return second dodge to Mirage in PvP. Remove evade from Mirage Cloak.
• Mirage Mirrors. Add to Mirage Cloak trait this functionality: create a Mirage Mirror at your initial location when you dodge. Remove evade from Mirage Mirror. Keep damage, weakness, and access to ambush skills.
• Mirage Notes: I admit bias as I am a fan of Mirage Mirrors. However, I think this approach alleviates some evasion spam (evade removed from Mirage Mirror), returns positional movement to dodge, and creates clear lines of counter play. Infinite Horizon should not need to be adjusted or removed as illusions would lose the evasion and there would be a slight delay between dodging and ambushing.

[XenesisII.1540]

Remove the evade from mirage cloak, so it's only function is to proc ambush.

If infinite horizon is a problem then adjust the ambush skill damage on the player or clones.

That's all they needed to do.

Dodge should have never been removed, it was an extremely lazy fix.