Virtuoso doesn't seem OP...if all elites are similar....EoD will be the best expansion

[Leonidrex.5649]

I did some investigation.
Old chrono benchmark landed 4579 damage with gs4 crit. It had several things.
1 might 25 stacks ( + 750 power )
2 spirit ( + 5% damage )
3 banner ( 100 power and ferocity )
4 empowered allies ( 100 power )
5 food ( build has it too but we dont know what food is showcased )
6 fully stacked sword trait ( 150 ferocity )
7 25 stacks of vulnerability 

Virtuoso did 1409 damage
This is more or less 70% less damage, all we have to do to get " raid " setting damage is multiply damage done by elite by ~3.24 to get MORE OR LESS the damage it will deal in RAID setting in pve ( could be different as chrono gives both damage and crit and we dont know what virt traits will give, its rough estimate )

Number I got was 131,409 damage. Honestly, its REALLY good but not something that would carry the spec alone.
And the damage he got leaves me to believe he used MOSTLY full dps gear. then again it has no bearing on pve, for all we know it could hit for 5k dmg and thats it.

[Crab Fear.1624]

31 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

do you not understand its PvE damage? Its like saying barrage from ranger will 1shot everyone in teamfight because it deals 100k dmg to pve -.-
The only thing I can see wrong with this skill is that its
1 aoe ( which hit through walls ) and 
2 it has 1200 range, so there is a huge possibility of making some stupid spots to hit people with this skill without giving them a chance to react

i want to hurdur you right now....lol

 

did you not see me say i dont know what the pvp version will be?

[Crab Fear.1624]

24 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I did some investigation.
Old chrono benchmark landed 4579 damage with gs4 crit. It had several things.
1 might 25 stacks ( + 750 power )
2 spirit ( + 5% damage )
3 banner ( 100 power and ferocity )
4 empowered allies ( 100 power )
5 food ( build has it too but we dont know what food is showcased )
6 fully stacked sword trait ( 150 ferocity )
7 25 stacks of vulnerability 

Virtuoso did 1409 damage
This is more or less 70% less damage, all we have to do to get " raid " setting damage is multiply damage done by elite by ~3.24 to get MORE OR LESS the damage it will deal in RAID setting in pve ( could be different as chrono gives both damage and crit and we dont know what virt traits will give, its rough estimate )

Number I got was 131,409 damage. Honestly, its REALLY good but not something that would carry the spec alone.
And the damage he got leaves me to believe he used MOSTLY full dps gear. then again it has no bearing on pve, for all we know it could hit for 5k dmg and thats it.

We can analyze the video, because he uses skills that WE KNOW, and can get an idea of the gear he is wearing.

 

The pistol skills.

 

Also, the health will indicate a few things as well.

 

 

 

But, of course when the betas come out, the DPS wizards will show the max, the practical, and most likely DPS this thing will do (pre-release)

 

 

Math PS

The base numbers for barrage cause you mentioned it (1000 power)

 

PVE    2,316 (6)

PVP   1,764 (4.572)

So, at 2k power it will be double, and 3k power, triple.....you got pve doing 7k then, and pvp would be a little over 5k?

 

This is 11k, so we can figure out the base numbers, if we can figure out the gear.

 

What about doing some reverse work?

 

Anyone math?

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624
Math PS

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Kondor.2904 said:

It was close to bis tho, zerk gear + mara trinkets + scholar 

Odd, I missed the part where they showed the gear and trinks.

 

Can you link that timestamp, also the traits?

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624

[Kondor.2904]

4 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Odd, I missed the part where they showed the gear and trinks.

 

Can you link that timestamp, also the traits?

 

 

No, that info is from the dev on discord. And nothing on traits yet. 
https://i.gyazo.com/d53b0c87da173eb9bc9a6ec183f2aa07.png

Edited July 30, 2021 by Kondor.2904

[Loboling.5293]

I have to agree that the mechanics of Virtuoso seem much better balanced than the mechanics of Mirage, and a lot of the PoF elite specializations. I hope this trend continues with the next ones too. 

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

i want to hurdur you right now....lol

 

did you not see me say i dont know what the pvp version will be?

yes but you also said
" One of the six strike, will one shot you......with 6 hits in an area.....they can down a group in a team fight. "
I wouldnt worry by damage all that much, if it deals too much they will nerf it by 50% and call it a day.
The only thing that worries me is 
1 It ONLY deals damage, with huge cooldown, and huge cast time, so it HAS to deal massive damage
2 Its 1200 range aoe, and as we all know aoe hit through walls
When you combine 1 and 2 we could see some kitten hits through walls that chunk people for 50%+ health out of nowhere.

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, Kondor.2904 said:

No, that info is from the dev on discord. And nothing on traits yet. 
https://i.gyazo.com/d53b0c87da173eb9bc9a6ec183f2aa07.png

 

OK, so is the estimate for power at 2500 assuming ascended? (not traits or uts are calculated just gear and food (estimate)

 

we see tool tip of 11600 damage

 

11600/2.5(est) = 4640

 

based on this, the skill CE is like 13 (lol)

 

and looking at the

 

link

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

 

I estimated the information to be (per strike, because total is like 13)

 

I only did a reverse to solve for CE so, i think it is  (tooltip*Armor/(hits*weapon*power) = hit skill CE

 

Hits	Weapon	Power	Skill CE	Armor	Forumula	Tooltip
6	922.5	2500	2.177069557	2597	A*B*C*D /E	11,600

Edited July 30, 2021 by Crab Fear.1624
Now should be able to figure out with crits the peak each could hit with, and see

[Crab Fear.1624]

8 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

OK, so is the estimate for power at 2500 assuming ascended? (not traits or uts are calculated just gear and food (estimate)

 

we see tool tip of 11600 damage

 

11600/2.5(est) = 4640

 

based on this, the skill CE is like 13 (lol)

 

and looking at the

 

link

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

 

 

I estimated the information to be (per strike, because total is like 13)

 

I only did a reverse to solve for CE so, i think it is  (tooltip*Armor/(hits*weapon*power) = hit skill CE

 

Hits	Weapon	Power	Skill CE	Armor	Forumula	Tooltip
6	922.5	2500	2.177069557	2597	A*B*C*D /E	11,600

 

But when I try to calculate for crit damage, it doesn't match the first strike 6507 (in video)

 

So my math is probably missing the true power?

 

Based on my number and the stats given, the strike should be 3700-3900?

[Salt Mode.3780]

I love the nonsense of calculating a 75 sec dmg only elite that is extremely telegraphed and asking a nerf when in actuality moa form might be the better choice.

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I love the nonsense of calculating a 75 sec dmg only elite that is extremely telegraphed and asking a nerf when in actuality moa form might be the better choice.

having 3 years cooldown, and being cucked by random aegis/blind makes moa virtually unusable
at least virt elite might actually work reliably 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[Salt Mode.3780]

10 minutes ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

having 3 years cooldown, and being cucked by random aegis/blind makes moa virtually unusable
at least virt elite might actually work reliably 

on second thought u r right mass invis will still be the best choice at least that way you can land your 3/4 cast time F1

Edited July 30, 2021 by Salt Mode.3780

[Noodle Ant.1605]

8 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

But when I try to calculate for crit damage, it doesn't match the first strike 6507 (in video)

 

So my math is probably missing the true power?

 

Based on my number and the stats given, the strike should be 3700-3900?

math adds up… mostly

 

its very likely that he has egotism (pve version) and superiority complex (with additional bonus because the golem he hits is <50% hp), potentially combined with scholar rune bonuses and ferocity boosting consumables, and the hidden fact that the golem gets applied with some unknown amount of vulnerability, which can push the first hit past 6k range. we also technically dont know the exact armor value of the golem but 6k can already be reached assuming ~2.6k armor

 

the demo is shown in the sunqua peak fractal, even with the fractal dailies shown in the top right corner so these are very likely pve figures. additionally, the ‘this skill is unique per gamemode’ text is listed under the skills which implies that the competitive versions are already butchered by 33% or so

 

stuff not so very obviously shown are the small 0.1-0.2s interval between each f1 hit (so maybe over 1s for full 5 blades), dagger #2’s ability to hit up to 6 times, the f1 proc on phantasm despawn (probably triggers ‘on-hit’ traits which includes mental anguish which could have been boosting its damage), traits ofc and possibly some other things
 

fun fact: the elite skill total skill coefficient is closer to 17.5 because utility/elite skills often use unarmed weapon strength (690-ish)

 

edit: the elite skill has a ‘pierces’ tooltip lol (you know what that means)

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Noodle Ant.1605

[Quadox.7834]

On 7/29/2021 at 3:48 PM, apharma.3741 said:

3 things.

1. Someone asked what stats were used in the demonstration, it was zerk/marauder mix, you can probably figure out the exact amount based on the HP or close enough.

2. There is already a skill split, if you look at many of the skill facts they have the skill split message.

3. This was PvE damage which we all know is heavily inflated, we know this as the mental anguish trait that was clearly on the shatters said damage vs inactivity 50% which is the PvE damage. We also know they were running domination and this was likely to be the damage increasing traits to make it look good. I haven't tracked down which other trait line they used if any.

 

The thing to really look at is whether the spec is mechanically broken, most of the time the mechanics don't change and it's numbers tweaks we see. From that perspective we still need to see what is a projectile, what isn't and how you counter these, you should also think about what a mesmer is likely to slot out of these utility/elites vs current and historical skills in various roles.

 

I doubt more than 1 of the utilities will be used because blink and stealth is extremely useful and the elite will probably be used because what else are you going to use? Heal seems OK but ether feast will likely give more healing at 3+ blades especially if the virtuoso heal is on a 25s cooldown or longer in PvP because mesmer can't have sustain.

man ether feast could be juicy with this, imagine with 5 blades, yummm

[Leonidrex.5649]

9 minutes ago, Quadox.7834 said:

man ether feast could be juicy with this, imagine with 5 blades, yummm

calling it now, there is going to be a trait that increases max number of blades ( like deadeye thing )
we gonna use it, and troll with ether feast 10k heal every 25s. then they will do something drastic to stop it from working 😄