How important is Power for condi builds?

[Sifu.9745]

Lets say i play a condi Mesmer/mirage: Condition stat would be my first choice, obviously, followed by either Precision (need it mainly for Bleed proc) or/and Expertise. Then there is an option to take Power or Vitality or Toughness. I would usually take offensive stat over defensive one, IF the offensive stat would be on pair with the defensive one. What do i mean with "be on pair". Lets say i can choose between 900 Vitality or 900 Power. 900 Vitality increases my health for roughly 60%! That's a lot. I wouldn't expect that 900 Power would add 60% to my dps lol. But i would expect at least 20% higher dps (combined with precision), otherwise i would rather go for defensive stat. Is there a way to test what's the difference between having zero or 900 Power as condi Mesmer? I have been told by guild mate that the difference is only about 5 - 7%. If this is true, is it ok, if i ignore Power completely?

There are other condi builds which prefers Power over Precision: condi Thief and Guardian. The same question here: is it ok if i take Vitality/Toughnes over Precision?

If i play any Power spec, i am almost forced to take all three dps stats: power, precision and ferocity. Sure, i can add some vitality on top of that (Marauder stats or something similar) but i am not sure how important are non condi dps stats for condi builds ...

[otto.5684]

In PvE generally defensive stats are not needed. So it is usually sinister stats, viper or grievers. All have power.

[FogLeg.9354]

You do not need any Power for Condi build. Having extra HP is much nicer since it allows you to get hit few times without instantly going down, or survive few condis on you even when condi removal is on cooldown.

I play Condi Scourge in WvW and have full Trailblazer (Toughness + Vit + Condi + Exp).

[Sifu.9745]

Thanks, but i want to know what is the dmg loss, if you skip Power? More then 15% of your dps?

[Sephylon.4938]

One of my tests on the training golem showed that the total contribution of power damage on my condi mirage's total damage of 29544, was 8831. I'm not exactly the best at keeping rotations so it could be higher. If you're interested, here's my report card

[Vandril.3490]

@Sephylon.4938 said:One of my tests on the training golem showed that the total contribution of power damage on my condi mirage's total damage of 29544, was 8831. I'm not exactly the best at keeping rotations so it could be higher. If you're interested, here's my report card

I assume this is with gear that has condi/power/precision(/else).

It's important to note that you'd still get some of that 8831 damage even if you had no power on your gear. I'd say, as a ballpark estimate, power and precision on condi gear that have both accounts for anywhere from 10-15% of your total dps, judging purely from your numbers there. Of course. I imagine this will vary wildly from class to class, and even build to build.

[Sephylon.4938]

yes, I forgot to mention that. My apologies. I was using full viper gear with no food.

[Sephylon.4938]

Also just noticed it doesn't show my buffs. Anyway, I was using the usual: 25 might, fury, quickness, alac, 5 gotl, sun+frost, spotter, strength and disci banner with empower and engi buff.

[Curunen.8729]

What game mode?

It's not so much that power is "needed", it depends what you're building for and what you want to be able to do.

For example I like hybrid with power so I can make use of a bit of burst damage and a bit of sustained damage (I don't like 100-0 glass cannon as much as I don't like pure attrition bunker) so I am more difficult to counter - I don't get hardcountered by resistance spam or protection spam or whatever, and I also have more flexible choice of skills/weapons/traits and can change things around without needing to regear.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@otto.5684 said:In PvE generally defensive stats are not needed. So it is usually sinister stats, viper or grievers. All have power.

A bit of toughness and vitality will help a lot when you're going to take on champions and legendaries in PvE. Especially for squishies like us. Sure, you will los some DPS in comparison to zerkers, but when you lie dead on the ground you won't do very much damage either.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Besides you will need some power in case you meet enemies that are immune to your conditions or keep stripping them off.

[savacli.8172]

Here's the big problem. Mathematically speaking, each skill has a different power efficient (how much of your power stat is used when calculating damage). Power coefficients vary radically so there's not a flat "if you lose [x] amount of power you lose [x] amount of damage". Something like a Mesmer Sword has high Power coefficients so losing out on Power drops your damage by a more noticeable amount vs a weapon like Scepter or Axe that have lower power coefficients but compensate that by applying conditions.

For PvE. the way you generally want to look at things is in the following order:

• +100% condi duration on your primary condition(s). E.G. +100% burning for Guard makes sense but +100% Confusion does not.
• Condition Damage. Pretty self explanatory here.
• Precision: A lot of traits apply skills based on critical strikes
• Power: Since most of your condi weapons have bad power scaling this is generally the stat that you look at last. Again, varies per class and even further by class weapon
• Ferocity: Same as above, your physical damage is pretty bad in most cases so no need to increase it.

The best way to figure out where your damage is coming from is to smack a golem. (ArcDPS have a damage breakdown by skill/condition). From there you can see how much your damage falls off by taking more defensive gear.

Again, this is all pretty generalized as we can't give you a definitive answer without having tested this ourselves or guesstimating by modifying data collected from others.

[Khisanth.2948]

You don't need power assuming you never plan on touching any core content because there are various bits of stuff in core content that is just completely immune to conditions and crits. You would still be able to kill/destroy those but it would be extremely slow.

In the case of guardian you also have the issue of destroyers and various fire elementals that are also immune to burning.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Sifu.9745 said:Thanks, but i want to know what is the dmg loss, if you skip Power? More then 15% of your dps?

It depends heavily on the class, and amount of damage bias the skills have. Hybrid classes like Engineer benefit from both, but most condi builds for Engineer ignore the power component due to poor scaling. Ranger is also a hybrid class, also has power scaling on its condi build, but scales much better then Engineer on Condi due to its skills having longer base duration.

But then you have a build like Firebrand, which only uses Fire (which scales incredibly well), doesn't need Expertise (can get 100% burn duration on via traits and runes), and whose weapons all have a strong power component. Because of this, Grieving stat can fully utilize all aspects of both power and condi damage, and focus all aspect into its damage. While the power component is less significant compared to the burn damage, its still additional DPS for literally zero trade off compared to something like sinisters.