Like Raids, Strike Missions need to reward you something even if you fail — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Like Raids, Strike Missions need to reward you something even if you fail

Raids give you some shards based on how far you got defeating a raid before wipe. Why not crystal shards for Strike Missions? Whisper of Jormag will only turn the majority of players away if they don't get something for their time.

Comments

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I really like this idea. Then some people won't mind wiping as much. :)
    It should be carefully balanced though, so that its not efficient to never kill the boss.

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree that maybe for WOJ because its close to some of the easier raids but the others are too easy to deserve it. Its hard to see how you could manage to fail shiverpeaks.

  • I guess having community that expects to get rewarded for failing is one of the reasons this game has literally no challenging content and pve endgame is a meme.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How about No

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i would also like to get unidentified bags, whenever i die in open world

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @yann.1946 said:
    I really like this idea. Then some people won't mind wiping as much. :)
    It should be carefully balanced though, so that its not efficient to never kill the boss.

    They seem to get Raids spot on. Maybe give completions some shards to prevent getting rewarded twice for doing a completion and fail.

    @Pax.8692 said:
    I don't think this is a good idea. Strike missions aren't raids. Raids are extremely hard. Strikes are for people to get better to attempt raiding, the middle ground between not raiding and raiding.

    The carrot on the stick is the shards when complete to get people to get better at strikes.

    No one will get better if they spend an hour or longer in every group only to fail and have it be a complete loss. That encourages people to quit the content entirely.

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:
    I agree that maybe for WOJ because its close to some of the easier raids but the others are too easy to deserve it. Its hard to see how you could manage to fail shiverpeaks.

    It is mostly for that, but inconsistencies between Strike Missions lead to further complications and frustrations. Since Shiverpeaks is so easy, then it really isn't a problem otherwise.

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    I guess having community that expects to get rewarded for failing is one of the reasons this game has literally no challenging content and pve endgame is a meme.

    It is a request to getting rewarded for effort. The bigger you fail the less you get. Your outlook on the community and pve endgame is the real joke here and makes elitism a real argument. How about don't contribute to that?

    @Linken.6345 said:
    How about No

    How about a better counter argument?

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    i would also like to get unidentified bags, whenever i die in open world

    An accurate comparison would be you lose everything you got on the map if you died. I mean it isn't a big deal, right?

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    rn strikes are good. by doing them u can get asc armors and weapons. dont expect to get rewards from wiping at easy content.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it is fine the way it is. If people turn away because they aren't rewarded after failing, they probably didn't enjoy the content in the first place.
    Luring them in with rewards is not going to work long term anyways.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    rn strikes are good. by doing them u can get asc armors and weapons. dont expect to get rewards from wiping at easy content.

    That is a good argument to remove magnetite shards from raids too.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    I think it is fine the way it is. If people turn away because they aren't rewarded after failing, they probably didn't enjoy the content in the first place.
    Luring them in with rewards is not going to work long term anyways.

    It will if they can get some amount based on how far they got. "We've been at this for almost an hour and I ran out of time to play, but I got some shards at least. Maybe next time the group will be able to win."

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    rn strikes are good. by doing them u can get asc armors and weapons. dont expect to get rewards from wiping at easy content.

    That is a good argument to remove magnetite shards from raids too.

    u can get magnetide shards for 2 things. killing boss or wiping. in strike missions u also get shards for killing bosses. would it hurt u much if raids lost shards for wiping? im fine with that, tbf im not sure why its there.
    Also keep in mind, in raids u need 600 -2k shards for anything, in strikes its only few.
    Not gonna say that raids are much harder than strikes, but strikes are just easy.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2020

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    rn strikes are good. by doing them u can get asc armors and weapons. dont expect to get rewards from wiping at easy content.

    That is a good argument to remove magnetite shards from raids too.

    Im down with that remove ms from failed boss kills.
    Since as it is atm you cap out on shards before your done with all your kills anyway

  • @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    I guess having community that expects to get rewarded for failing is one of the reasons this game has literally no challenging content and pve endgame is a meme.

    It is a request to getting rewarded for effort. The bigger you fail the less you get. Your outlook on the community and pve endgame is the real joke here and makes elitism a real argument. How about don't contribute to that?

    I feel you're one of these people. K so:
    I don't wanna do personal story, lemme farm lvl10 story 10 times and gimme lvl80 loot.
    I don't wanna farm 100% map completion, lemme do plains of ashford and afk for a while on others, where's my gift?

    There's absolutely no reason to reward people for effort. Not every content is meant to be completed by everyone. if someone can't manage, there should be no loot.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    I don't wanna do personal story, lemme farm lvl10 story 10 times and gimme lvl80 loot.

    You haven't heard of keyfarming yet, have you.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2020

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    I guess having community that expects to get rewarded for failing is one of the reasons this game has literally no challenging content and pve endgame is a meme.

    It is a request to getting rewarded for effort. The bigger you fail the less you get. Your outlook on the community and pve endgame is the real joke here and makes elitism a real argument. How about don't contribute to that?

    I feel you're one of these people. K so:
    I don't wanna do personal story, lemme farm lvl10 story 10 times and gimme lvl80 loot.
    I don't wanna farm 100% map completion, lemme do plains of ashford and afk for a while on others, where's my gift?

    There's absolutely no reason to reward people for effort. Not every content is meant to be completed by everyone. if someone can't manage, there should be no loot.

    Actually, there is a GREAT reason to reward people for effort ... and that reason is because Anet wants to make money. It's not actually an unreasonable line of thinking either; look back on how the game was designed and what part of the market made it successful in the first place. Those people haven't left ... those people are still looking for GW2 to deliver that kind of content. No other game delivers to that player profile like GW2 did and (to some extent though much less than before) still does.

    Let's be clear, we aren't talking about Anet giving hand outs for trivial content either so if you can stop sensationalizing with facetious examples, you might even be welcome to join the conversation and present your POV in a more reasonable manner if you choose to be listened to.

    EDIT: There are actually many good reasons to reward people for effort, so before you go dismissing the idea entirely, give yourself some time to think about it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • krzysiekb.8769krzysiekb.8769 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    I didn't say GW2 doesn't reward people for effort, it does. Reason for that, I guess, is the fact that game is built around casual community. The mere fact that anyone is able to complete raids or t4 fotm speaks for itself. So does the fact that all the resources seem to be going into story, living word, gemstore skins etc.

    I do understand that people like to be rewarded. That's why you get raid tokens for wiping, "Fractal God" for farming t1, and persimmon chests even if you're bronze rated in PvP with enough matches played. Easy loot drags casual community in, which we both know, is majority in GW2 at this point.

    IMO game shouldn't reward you for failing (even tho it does already). There's plenty of stuff people can make gold on in open world, without any effort but time, i.e. map completion - for some reason required to get legendary weapons. Plenty of other examples of how you can acquire pretty much anything in the game by doing open word or just farming.

    So, when it comes to very few "challenging" instances we have in the game, which would be raids, t4, and dungeons - Basically nothing you can get out of it, that average player can't:
    Dungeons - Let's be honest, anyone can complete them, especially with elite specs.
    T4 - You can aswell farm t1 or t2. Ofc there are CMs, but it's not like theres a timer or something on them, just log 3 scourges or whatever do people use nowadays and keep popping these mistlocks to reset cds and keep trying.
    Raids - Taking into consideration how broken elite specs are, how easily accessible boons are, how much dps/heals you can do without any effort really, most of raid bosses aren't anywhere close to being challenging. There's very few that can be a problem for an average player, but it's just few skins. You still can farm up LI without any major problems. And ofc, you get magnetite shards for nothing.

    Another, IMO(!!!) issue with GW2 is the fact, that during the past years Anet does everything to simplify the game. Look at boons, there was a time you had to respect field priority, be aware of blasting to get just might, not to speak of quickness. Nowadays, you'll have half the boons you need by just spamming dps rota, the boons will just pop passively. You'll get perma alac from just 1 person spamming 1 skill off cd. IMO, that's a big joke.

    There were also a lot of mechs you could use to gain advantage on other players, such as cancelling animations with weapon stow for dps gain, and stuff like that. which Anet slowly removes. Ofc some still are in game, but it's just leftovers.

    When it comes to boss mechanics, most of them are gone. Nowadays, 1-2 players can do basically as much dmg as a 5man group could back in the day, this alone allows you to skip at least half of the mechs in dungs/fotm. Talking about fotm - that pretty much turned into Player vs Instabilities. Boss damage is basically removed, look at volcano lastboss - it would almost 1shot you with an autoattack, nowadays it does what, 10% hp? Eventually you'll die to afflicted or something from the lava elems. That's the case with pretty much every fractal - simplified and changed in the manner that favors casual community - less dmg taken, less options, more passives.

    There's lots of other stuff I could write about, but no point. Taking all the above into consideration you can see Anet clearly designs game for the casual community. I don't say it's wrong. I have expressed my opinion on how once an amazing game turned into content-less chat simulator. I would love to see stuff that would be, in a way, exclusive for more PvE-dedicated part of the community. At this point, I don't really believe it will ever happen. Sadly. Ofc I still play GW2 myself, I still enjoy doing retro content and chatting with people I knew for years.

    So, to sum up, cuz I know barely anyone will read all that spam, IMO "challenging" content shouldn't reward for trying - it should be left as sth exclusive There's plenty of stuff that anyone can complete in GW2, and that grants you ton of loot.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    I didn't say GW2 doesn't reward people for effort, it does.

    And I didn't say you did. but you did say ....

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    There's absolutely no reason to reward people for effort.

    ... and that's not true, EVEN for challenging content. I get that's your opinion ... but again, based on what I told you, your opinion isn't aligned with how the game is designed and the reason people adopted it. See the problem with your opinion is that it doesn't recognize that 'exclusive' doesn't work well in an MMO ... and things that don't work don't pay the bills. Anet can't afford 'exclusive'.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • krzysiekb.8769krzysiekb.8769 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    And I knew that your kind of people will say my opinion is wrong only because your opinion is different. :)

    As for the quotes you used, read up carefully. I DID say there's no reason to reward for nothing. I DID NOT say that it does not already reward for nothing. To simplify it: Now it rewards for nothing, it should not. Here you go.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2020

    @krzysiekb.8769 said:
    And I knew that your kind of people will say my opinion is wrong only because your opinion is different. :)

    And no one said your opinion was wrong either. It simply doesn't align with the game philosophy.

    There is no misunderstanding by me of what you said. Rewarding effort is not rewarding nothing and there are reasons for Anet to consider doing it, even in challenging content. There you go.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    YES! No matter how badly you screwed up in raids, no matter how many hours you wasted, you were getting SOMETHING. ANYTHING! I always felt like my time there had some small value even in failure. If there’s one thing I can’t stand about strikes it’s that they’re all or nothing. The 10+ hours I’ve spent with different groups coming under 20% on whisper of jormag just to fail again, and again, and again? WASTED. Completely and utterly. Not one kitten thing to show for it. That’s the main reason I felt demoralized and haven’t spent more time really going at it and trying, because my time feels 100% wasted there.

    Seriously, I wipe that strike a few times and it makes me WANT to go raid, I specifically have found myself missing this feature of raids several times

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    So...wait then why kill the boss at all just go in get your 30% and go back out you're done leave the group? Seems unethical.

    Go in and die to say "So long suckers!" Or are we talking about pity reward? Do I look like I need your pity?

  • phantom.1675phantom.1675 Member ✭✭
    edited March 29, 2020

    ... and that's not true, EVEN for challenging content. I get that's your opinion ... but again, based on what I told you, your opinion isn't aligned with how the game is designed and the reason people adopted it. See the problem with your opinion is that it doesn't recognize that 'exclusive' doesn't work well in an MMO ... and things that don't work don't pay the bills. Anet can't afford 'exclusive'.

    I think your argument here is a bit self-defeating. They already tried making a bunch of non-exclusive content, that's called PoF and Season 4. And if it were a success, you can bet Anet would have kept doing it, but they aren't doing it. A likely reason is that casuals logging in every 2 months for 3 hours of content doesn't create a player-base that is invested in the game to 1) directly support the game through micro transanctions and 2) grow the community through word of mouth as a "good game" to invest in.

    If anything, the fact that Anet is trying to make more exclusive content proves they know they need it and just are struggling to get the formula right.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2020

    @phantom.1675 said:

    ... and that's not true, EVEN for challenging content. I get that's your opinion ... but again, based on what I told you, your opinion isn't aligned with how the game is designed and the reason people adopted it. See the problem with your opinion is that it doesn't recognize that 'exclusive' doesn't work well in an MMO ... and things that don't work don't pay the bills. Anet can't afford 'exclusive'.

    I think your argument here is a bit self-defeating. They already tried making a bunch of non-exclusive content, that's called PoF and Season 4. And if it were a success, you can bet Anet would have kept doing it, but they aren't doing it. A likely reason is that casuals logging in every 2 months for 3 hours of content doesn't create a player-base that is invested in the game to 1) directly support the game through micro transanctions and 2) grow the community through word of mouth as a "good game" to invest in.

    If anything, the fact that Anet is trying to make more exclusive content proves they know they need it and just are struggling to get the formula right.

    That doesn't make much sense ... how are Anet 'not doing it'? They just announced another expansion of 'not exclusive' content .. they never stopped releasing 'non-exclusive' content in the whole history of the game. Seems to me they ARE going to do what they tried that DID work. You're opinions is that casuals log only every 2 months to do 3 hours of content? OK ... that's a REALLY weak foundation to make an argument on, but be my guest. Doesn't seem like a 'likely' reason at all. In fact, I'm willing to venture a guess that if exclusive content was the order of the day, Anet wouldn't be doing a whole lot of things that they did ... like reduce raid releases or introduce strike missions into the OW casual players playground.

    This is how 'exclusive' content works; it's a pyramid scheme. If that pyramid is too hard to climb, there are too many people at the top and none at the bottom. The pyramid has a weak foundation, get's top heavy and crashes to the ground. It was a massive mistake for Anet not to bridge the gap with 'easymode' raids and if they want to build up that foundation for raid-like content, they better consider things like rewarding effort to get that foundation stabilized.

    I think it's almost comical to see how the 1% hardcore raiders don't think they need scrub players for raids to support the content they love and want to see more of. They couldn't be more wrong.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/