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The Death of Thief

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  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 didnt like almost all the teams have thief in the tournament? I didnt actually watch it but the preview of the teams that I have seen was like 60-70% had a thief in it.
    Lots of thiefs and lots of revs.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Psycoprophet.8107 didnt like almost all the teams have thief in the tournament? I didnt actually watch it but the preview of the teams that I have seen was like 60-70% had a thief in it.
    Lots of thiefs and lots of revs.

    I'm guessing they prob all had thief for decapping and alot had revs for +1ing etc.
    I dont think the top thief players a comfortable enough to switch even if the wanted to, couple said they did want to but could be just talk.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think we all know what this means. No more nerf thief threads @Burnfall.9573 has won.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Psycoprophet.8107 didnt like almost all the teams have thief in the tournament? I didnt actually watch it but the preview of the teams that I have seen was like 60-70% had a thief in it.
    Lots of thiefs and lots of revs.

    The ones in the finals had condi thief, which apparently was exploiting the fact that people are unprepared. Sindrener said himself that he sucks at anything but thief, and of the rest of the teams, I think it was 2 that had one and 3 that didnt?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I watched the vid where he said that,noody did to in his last live stream but but could be just talk. If it's not I'd still understand why they'd still run thief as it's still able to make some decent plays and decap especially if it's the class ur best on so makes sense why they'd stick with it, plus sind name is synonymous with thief be prob hard to drop.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Supreme.3164 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:
    All these people crying because thief isn't a godtier 1v1 class are playing the wrong class.

    Did I ask to be a god tier 1v1er in my post? No I simply stated what thief was and what thief has become. I just want damage back and the ability to actually fight.

    This goes against the OP where you described thief as best 1v1 class or how it should be, it does look like as you expect thief to be god tier 1v1

    If you don't understand how writing works. I presented
    Exhibit A: Thief in its prime that was the #1 1v1 class and could fight any other profession toe to toe
    then compared it with
    Exhibit B: Thief currently that isn't able to 1v1 any other profession right now

    If you think I'm asking for a god tier 1v1 profession then you're wrong or just can't read quite well. You should comprehend from what I wrote that I'm asking for a class that can compete, not simply exist. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, u can leave now.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:
    'GW2 - THIEF WvW & PvP MONTAGE 'UNTOUCHABLE' '

    'Some of these clips are quite old, but I like that it pretty much touches on every thief build for the past 6 months or so.'

    U must have missed the part where it said "Some of these clips are quite old" because that's not current thief damage. Pistol Whip wouldn't do a third of that damage now. Once again, even when you think you have something: you bring something old and irrelevant. Goodjob, what you did show is what potential a skilled thief has when they're allowed to do damage. Looks a lot different from all the skilled thieves right now that are forced to flee from nearly every single fighting situation doesn't it?

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    The only skillful thieves out there were the ones at this years annual ninja parade because they were so good no one ever saw them.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Klypto.1703 said:
    The only skillful thieves out there were the ones at this years annual ninja parade because they were so good no one ever saw them.

    Let me go play a match post-balance patch and come back with the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" ever. The skill is slowly being taken out of thief and it's just obnoxious

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020

    thief definitely back, playing core power in plat and doing decent right now, also minimum 2 thieves per game on average of 3, sucks to be necro now that thief and rev are plaguing the game.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    thief definitely back, playing core power in plat and doing decent right now, also minimum 2 thieves per game on average of 3, sucks to be necro now that thief and rev are plaguing the game.

    If the same team has 2 thieves, let alone 3, thats a free win for the opponent. Somehow I doubt that that is happening.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage.

    wait, no hate or anything, if a thief can 1v1 with steal and shortbow 5 and shadow step
    why would any serious team take a holo or warrior for?
    just talking logic here, enlighten me some

    thief cant even plus one, takes forever to kill, so your team get outnumber for a long time and u lose the purpose of mobility and plusone.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2020

    @Lighter.5631 said:
    thief definitely back, playing core power in plat and doing decent right now, also minimum 2 thieves per game on average of 3, sucks to be necro now that thief and rev are plaguing the game.

    +1

    'This is DISGUSTING. This was a quick vid, so not intro yet.'

    '

    'Im Here But Nobody See Me. Revenant GW2 PVP'

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

    During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:

      1. Elementalist - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
      1. Necromancer - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
      1. Mesmer - Because the massive nerf finally hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
      1. Ranger - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
      1. Engineer - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
      1. Thief - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
      1. Guardian - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
      1. Warrior - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
      1. Revenant - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

    None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
    A: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
    B: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

    The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

    I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

    Complicated class......

    "High risk"......

    Don't want to link more video proof......

    I like how the video you posted is dated 2016,2015,2013. Good job

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    @PotatoAssasin.1786 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

    During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:

      1. Elementalist - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
      1. Necromancer - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
      1. Mesmer - Because the massive nerf finally hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
      1. Ranger - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
      1. Engineer - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
      1. Thief - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
      1. Guardian - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
      1. Warrior - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
      1. Revenant - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

    None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
    A: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
    B: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

    The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

    I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

    Complicated class......

    "High risk"......

    Don't want to link more video proof......

    I like how the video you posted is dated 2016,2015,2013. Good job

    'The Reason Why The Past Is Present Is Because They Were Never Learned, Resulting In Life Sentences Of Repetition

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • @darren.1064 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    I would like to start this by saying I've been playing GW2 since launch. I used to play PvP back in the hotjoin days before AT's, and Ranked PvP were a thing. I'm a rank 560 in PvP and have played a total of 15,438 games across all of my characters and 10,079 of those were played on my thief. I've never felt like PvP was as broken before as it is now, and I have also never felt like I should make a post on the Guild Wars 2 Forums until now.

    During my time on Guild Wars, I've taken a few breaks but I can firmly say that I remember the days when thief was the #1 1v1 class. Seeing as how thief has always had the highest learning curve, it only makes sense that the most complicated class to play would be the best at fighting 1v1s. That point still survives to this day as thief remains the hardest profession to play (aside from gimmick builds that occasionally pop up through profession exploits that also occur on other professions.) Over time the power creep has set in well for other classes while leading to the decline in play for other classes. Over just the past few months, ranger is the prime example as there was never a prime balance patch where they went from the red headed stepchild to the families golden child; over time they had a bunch of smaller positive changes that really helped progress the professions damage, sustain, and popularity. The opposite can be said about thief, the class that 5 years ago was the best class to 1v1 on. A very long series of balance patches have forced thieves into a pvp class that has been pigeonholed into the sole purpose of decapping and +1-ing fights. While there's nothing wrong with this particular role, it is shameful that no other class has been pushed this far into a single monotonous role. Going through each of the nine classes:

      1. Elementalist - have the speed to +1, have the range to also team fight with damage or godly support on tempest and can also 1v1 with ease
      1. Necromancer - Don't even get me started. Near unkillable at times and can fight entire 1v3s for large amounts of time. Can +1
      1. Mesmer - Because the massive nerf _ finally_ hit mesmer and mirages, the elite and core spec are also teetering on the edge of being viable
      1. Ranger - I don't think I even need to talk about this class
      1. Engineer - Still a solid profession right now that is being saved by holosmith's damage and sustainability; can 1v1, hold points or _1
      1. Thief - Can simply +1 or decap points; near liability in team fights due to virtual 0 toughness or vitality and reduced damage that is completely laughable
      1. Guardian - Untouchable support class that also has access to damage; they're viable in every part of ranked PvP
      1. Warrior - Have builds that can hold points, win 1v1s with ease, and while a tad bit slower they are great 1v1ers with their plethora of CC skills
      1. Revenant - Current tanks that can 1v1, team fight, and one of the best +1 professions

    None of these other classes have been pigeonholed into the same constraints that Thief has. As a top 250 PvP player I have seen nearly all of the thief meta builds, and the glory days were when you could 1v1 or (before this current balance patch) simply do damage. The current big problem with thief is obviously
    A: the damage is absolutely terrible and you cannot win any 1v1s. Before this balance patch thieves struggled with winning 1v1s because the profession has been on a steady decline in every category possible aside from mobility while every other profession has received plentiful buffs in damage and sustainability.
    B: A majority of initiative a thief uses is spent on defensive purposes as opposed to offensive purposes. Defensive purposes would include going into stealth. Black Powder Shot alone costs 6 initiative to use and that doesn't include the Heartseeker, Bound, or Cluster Bomb that the thief is also forced to use to finish going into stealth. With the current playing style for everybody unfortunately being low damage and tanky builds, initiative is a big problem for thieves as we're forced into extended fights where the thief inevitably doesn't do enough upfront damage to kill the person and so the fight drags on until the thief inevitably runs out of initiative and dies of attrition. Hence where thieves are forced into the +1 nature that no other class has been forced into because they're more properly balanced.

    The "High Risk, High Reward" motto that was originally used for thieves has become a sham as even using a berserker amulet, auto-attacks do about 300-500 damage each. Backstab does less than 5000 damage and that's for D/P: one of the thieve's most offensively powerful weapon sets. However thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill due to having only 1 skill that supplies stability for a single second coupled with a low health pool and no extra toughness. Core necro is just one example of a class that can keep thief fear-locked for an eternity as the thief's health quickly dwindles away from other conditions. Power rangers, mainly power soulbeasts are melting thieves in a split second with nothing to save them. Guardians and elementalists can simply burn them to death. Engineers win the battle of attrition. Mesmer and some warrior builds are the only two professions that thief has a feasible chance against. Not to mention that that is only sometimes with warrior.

    I'll try to keep this short, but in short: The thief that was born into Guild Wars 2 has died. The best 1v1 class with the highest skill floor and ceiling was wasted.

    Yeah pretty much, teams wrecking the game just as the past teams did. This is one community where the team would be far better off as well as the game if they literally ignored forums etc and just went of high lv game play, the community isn't smart enough to know the difference between annoying and op and on top are vindictive and enjoy getting their counter classes ruined regardless of how it effects all the players that enjoy it. Community deserves the game as it is cuz they helped mold it,most not all.

    Lets make a deal .
    You get more burst but you loose 30% damage reduction + Weakness :
    Unhindered Combatant+ Weakening Strikes+ Marauder's Resilience
    Deal ?

    Weakening Strikes and Marauder's Resilience have only been around for a year... So we've already been playing without them for years aside for the past few months. It's not like they're traits we've always had.

    Yeah, we used to lean onto acrobatics for similar reasons we now do to daredevil. Acrobatics has basically been gutted so if you do the same to DD you're gonna have to buff acrobatics a little to compensate.

    Plus the logic behind, "to get more burst you need to sacrifice your sustain" really doesn't apply to GW2. There are other classes and meta builds that have more or equal burst to thief, more sustain, and more passive defensives.

    Since beta players have historically said "nerf teef." I blame ye old pistol whip meta one shot builds for this.

    There is literally no other class in the game that has been the brunt of consecutive nerfs almost every patch than thief. Maaaaaaybe Mes but that's a big maybe. You'd have to ask Helseth about that.

    The only time I've seen a meta where people didn't complain about Thief was at the start of HoT when power Rev stole their thunder and literally every ESL pro thief main (Yes even Sindrener iirc) rerolled to revenant because they could do everything we could and more. They had mobility and teleports, sustain, defensives, CC chains, etc.

    Even then people still said "QQ stealth," because mesmers dared to exist and took the mantle of most hated class. Over the years it really doesn't matter what is done to Thief. People hate Thief for stealth, teleports, and initiative resulting in not having to play the cool down management game that everyone else has to. People's hate on Thief isn't for numbers we push out, it's simply for being born the way we were designed by anet. The only way to quench the hate is if Thief was completely deleted and we were given a new class with the same gear type so our ascended gear still carried over.

    They hate us cuz they kitten or something. Always will. I've accepted this.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why was this necrod ?

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    currently now on my thief build wiht celestial I feel I I at all can;t do damage, instead this "soft hand pet the cat" opponent after last big nerf.. It stuck me .. So on thief I now play more rare.
    Is this problem? No. My wrong expectations is only are my problems.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Be me, lurking
    DEATH OF THIEF
    May this finally be the day?
    Open thread
    Thief is still alive and well, it's just the thousandth thread where thief mains complain about how every skill deals 5K even when they invest 3 traitlines in defensive utilities

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/baldmemes/images/c/cb/Badman.png/revision/latest?cb=20160304173519

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Project exa.3204 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    You're right, thief is so weak that 3/4 of the top 4 teams last mAT ran them, and I don't think this mAT will be any different.

    Yeah, and that's cool and all. Top 3/4 teams of mAT will always be in the top 3/4 teams. If Anet only cares about the top 1% of players that type of mentality is 100% ok.
    Not talking about the top 1% of players, because no matter what they're going to make classes work. Talking about the 99% of players who jump into thief thinking it's going to be fun, and end up getting rekt because the learning curve is so steep or because they are expected to have a singular purpose & don't understand fully how to play it.

    Do you disagree? You think that top 3/4 teams of mAT discredit the fact that thiefs (in general)--especially in solo or duo queue ranked where the majority of players play, makes the discussion points somehow NOT an issue? I don't.
    -Eros of Ascalon

    Not true , top players doenst make everything work . That would be true at ranked but at monthlys top players run most efficent builds and you cant play without a thief , you simply cant .

    Also thief is one of the best class to carry at ranked , and not only "top players" , a averague player with a plat1/plat2 lv can easily carry with it , its not a difficult class when it comes to mechanical play.

    Thief is bad when it comes to low low level , silver or low gold players cuz at this skill lv players face tank all dmg and have almost no clue about how rotations work or how pvp itself work.

  • Highlie.7641Highlie.7641 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

    let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

    let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

    thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

    let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

    thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

    So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

    let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

    thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

    So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

    Being able to quickly arrive from somewhere to said +1, being able to instantly jump onto the person that you gank, and being able to do it from stealth so that they dont know you are coming. If damage was the only thing that mattered in ganking you would see meme 1shot berserkers doing the ganking but you dont. You have thief cuz
    1 its the fastest
    2 it never dies
    3 it attacks from stealth and has so much of it that you cant tell where thief is unless you are on comms, and even then...

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Highlie.7641 said:
    Thief is very broken, just like every other profession now they rely on using cheese to win. One only has to look at a Thief Vs Thief matchup to identify the issue. which of course is the sustain from Shadow arts, would anyone argue a SA thief won't win vs a non SA thief? seriously go run S/d vs d/p running that traitline, your going to punish him 4-5 times after he fails his stealth burst, but due to your damage being lower they can out heal you.

    I'm sure some of you are about to scream nerf the sustain on thief then, and i'm sure most of the thief community would agree. the reality is they can't. It was already mentioned why this would be a bad idea. "The sustain on other professions is to high" you nerf thief all your going to do is force everyone into a SA condition spec.

    You ain't fixing thief unless you fix the defensive power creep on other professions first.

    let me be the first person to say this. Shadow Arts isn't even that good on Thief. I personally run Trickery which is a requirement, and I also run Deadly Arts so I can do some semblance of damage. Of course I run a power daredevil build, however Thieves currently are forced into underperforming damage builds, or absolutely cheese condition builds because thief does weak damage. I've only played 11 or 12 games this season because ranked pvp is THAT BAD nowadays, however I've seen plenty of teams without thieves. Thief is simply seen as a "must have" class because it can decap quickly and that's it. No profession should simply just be delegated to the boring role of decapping points but being unable to actually fight a 1v1, and what if all 3 points are being held by other players? What is a thief supposed to do then since their +1 skills aren't that good and second to several other classes currently. The balance patches that popped up in February or March or whatever did nothing but destroy the balance that GW2 once had. Instead of skillful builds where there were several 1shot builds across several professions, now we have tank wars where several professions are now invincible in not only 1v1s but also 1v2s and even 1v3s. That might be fine with some people, however thief has been the profession that has been used to keep those other professions and builds in check (alongside warrior, mesmer and ranger) and now that there's nothing keeping several professions in check, we've landed at the point where ranked just caves in on itself because there's no point. I played a game today with 3 holosmiths and 2 revenants on the same team because literally what else would you need to play right now? Terrible balance patches built around dismantling good builds and hard-to-play professions like thief, warrior, and mesmer is literally helping ranked in no way and this game won't be improving until certain classes start to see damage buffs again. If nerfs didnt fix this garbage game then why would we continue to dish them out?

    thief is one of the best +1 classes, it moves to +1 faster then anything else. they drop on you from stealth, so opener has no counter-play, they cant overextend since its thief and they never die. Yes, others can do more damage then thief, but thief +1 better then them since damage is NOT everything, also. Thief is very good for teamfights, blasting smoke field against team without stealth alone can be a GG for the enemy team, lights out.

    So what's more important in a +1 than damage in a PvP system that's designed for u to do damage and kill people on an opposing team? Because maybe I should reroll to that build instead.

    Being able to quickly arrive from somewhere to said +1, being able to instantly jump onto the person that you gank, and being able to do it from stealth so that they dont know you are coming. If damage was the only thing that mattered in ganking you would see meme 1shot berserkers doing the ganking but you dont. You have thief cuz
    1 its the fastest
    2 it never dies
    3 it attacks from stealth and has so much of it that you cant tell where thief is unless you are on comms, and even then...

    Remember when there were other "meme 1shot gankers" like: Berserker, GS Mesmer, Shiro Rev, and Soulbeast off the top of my head? Pepperidge Farm remembers. and 2 of those builds could sustain stealth. And if we want to delve into some PvP history, they were all very much troublesome and impervious to dying because their damage was so so high. Now did I have a problem with them? Nope. Should they come back? Maybe. But if they come back then you'll remember that thief wasn't even the best +1 class, it's simply just a few seconds faster with lesser damage.

  • Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    you dont understand what +1 means. It means to outnumber your enemy by 1 player, you join 3v3 to make it 4v3 or you join side node 1v1 to make it a 2v1.
    difference in 1v1 and 1v2 is so massive that no matter how low the damage is, at the very least you get a decap out of it, at best you get a kill, full cap and a bleed to take out oponent for ~30s, all the while you zoom back mid in 15s

    EDIT
    I read through the rest of your post.
    Im low rank rn since I have been off for several months, and you can legit win a game just by running between nodes like a monkey.
    low ranked players leave nodes and dont look back. Heck it, since I play power mirage RN I just had a game where I did 700k dmg, went 20 kills 1 death and almost lots, if I was a thief I would make 5/0 and handily win just by capping/decapping and taking out pressured targets.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

    Ok dagger\pistol

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

    Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

    We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage 🤪

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

    Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

    We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage 🤪

    I get them daily. Anything a thief does hits between 4.5k and 5.5k, with perma blind and perma stealth on d\p, or perma evade if the thief feels original and runs something else

    Backstab? 4.5k from stealth, no ini cost too so it's free, good luck dodging it and even if you do, there's another one coming so who cares
    Shadowshot? 4.5k + unblockable blind + range too
    Cloak and dagger? 4.5k and stealth, sometimes damage is even higher, once I got hit for 8k and I'm still struggling to understand how tf dat happened. It doesn't have range but as any skill you can steal into it so it's fine
    Pistol whip? Stun + evade + got hit for 6.8k after patch. Nobody runs it anymore, IDK why and I don't really care either, but the damage is there
    Larcenous strike? 5k, unblockable [EDIT: 5k is BS, it's actually 3k]. Yeah, range pretty poor and sadly, it's not like sword has an immobilize + 900 range teleport that ignores LOS
    Cluster bomb? That one's more random, anything from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on how the RNG god blesses you.

    Once any of that connects it's just a spam fiesta of heartseeker, which again, hits for at least 4k when used under the right conditions. And that's assuming the thief in question isn't even running condi, which brings a whole lot of different issues, -'cause the damage is still there-, but at least it can't chase\stealth as much so at least there's some room for some semblance of counterplay, 'cause in every other scenario the only way to deal with a thief is just to tank until the guy eventually gets bored and find something else to do. If you can't kill anyone despite having large access to unblockables, blinds, stealths, plenty of dodges, immunity to any kind of movement impeding conditions and what not it's kinda your fault 'cause the tools are there.

    All in all, everything a thief does hits 4k+, except autoattacks, you wanted grenade kit too? Can't really understand how all of these thieves can come up with all of that BS about being weak and underpowered, at this point it's either trolling or a serious fat fingers issue.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief is not good in solo queue. That's not a breaking news. I don't know how it is at lower divisions as my lowest placement ever was gold3, and at that part of the ladder bunker players are too good to lose a 1v1 at a sidenode against a thief and there is enough cleave at mid to push you into defense, but the overal tactical understanding is still too low that the group can play around the strengths of a thief. So you end up completely useless in at least every second match and only as useful as any other class in the rest of the matches, which is overall not enough to climb higher.

    In duo queue thief has always been great. In tournaments it was viable 80% of the game's life span. The more glassy the meta the more usefull thief is.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

    Ok dagger\pistol

    Yes, thats the standard build. Thats the one does less than 5k damage on its backstab with 3 offensive traitlines.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    Yeah I think youre like, 7 years out of date? In reality nowadays thief is "pick 3 offensive traitlines and still do less than 5k damage even with your backstab, let alone any of your other abilities".

    Agree, where these 5k should come from ? From a perfect condition backstep w/o any evade left, condi proc sigill and crit ? ... for sure these 5k arnt our super dooper 210crit AA's ...

    We r just in the meta bc of our mobility ... reach the +1 a bit faster than the real killers like rene/rev which is for sure an advantage in p2+ and mat or other tourneys but for the rest of the playerbase 95% it is garbage 🤪

    I get them daily. Anything a thief does hits between 4.5k and 5.5k, with perma blind and perma stealth on d\p, or perma evade if the thief feels original and runs something else

    Backstab? 4.5k from stealth, no ini cost too so it's free, good luck dodging it and even if you do, there's another one coming so who cares
    Shadowshot? 4.5k + unblockable blind + range too
    Cloak and dagger? 4.5k and stealth, sometimes damage is even higher, once I got hit for 8k and I'm still struggling to understand how tf dat happened. It doesn't have range but as any skill you can steal into it so it's fine
    Pistol whip? Stun + evade + got hit for 6.8k after patch. Nobody runs it anymore, IDK why and I don't really care either, but the damage is there
    Larcenous strike? 5k, unblockable. Yeah, range pretty poor and sadly, it's not like sword has an immobilize + 900 range teleport that ignores LOS
    Cluster bomb? That one's more random, anything from 2.5k to 4.5k depending on how the RNG god blesses you.

    ... how exactly do you think shadowshot, Larcenous Strike and CnD do the same amount of damage as backstab when they have at least 33% lower scaling, and often more than that? You realise the problem with your argument, right? In reality, they do around 3k, sometimes 2k.

    Once any of that connects it's just a spam fiesta of heartseeker, which again, hits for at least 4k when used under the right conditions. And that's assuming the thief in question isn't even running condi, which brings a whole lot of different issues, -'cause the damage is still there-, but at least it can't chase\stealth as much so at least there's some room for some semblance of counterplay, 'cause in every other scenario the only way to deal with a thief is just to tank until the guy eventually gets bored and find something else to do. If you can't kill anyone despite having large access to unblockables, blinds, stealths, plenty of dodges, immunity to any kind of movement impeding conditions and what not it's kinda your fault 'cause the tools are there.

    It hits for 4k if the enemy is really low. And condi thief isnt good, so Im not sure why youre bringing it up. And no, the tools arent there. Thief cant kill anyone in a 1v1, and its not supposed to.

    All in all, everything a thief does hits 4k+, except autoattacks, you wanted grenade kit too? Can't really understand how all of these thieves can come up with all of that BS about being weak and underpowered, at this point it's either trolling or a serious fat fingers issue.

    Yeah except as you point out yourself (though only indirectly), only backstab does. Barely. Against squishy enemies.

  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

    [INSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

    Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

    I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

    [INSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

    Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

    I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

    This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

    [INSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

    Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

    I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

    This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

    Did you know, light armor target takes 37,55% more damage then heavy golem? now you know.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Frodox.1283 said:
    Well, as a former Thief I can say that it's pretty bad. I mean even if u for some reason pick SA, many classes can reveal u, like warrior's shout and even if with your mobility u're almost unkillable, what's the point if u Can get killed by one combo or perma fear and just running around isn't much helpful. + In many games I'd encounter not brain-dead opponents who would camp their point so I couldn't even decap and winning 1v1 either took really long or I was obliterated by cc / 2 hits. Since I'm in a trash League I could win most of the 1v1s easily tho, but competent opponents were hard to deal with or I'd just insta die. Stealth isn't Op, it's just annoying and pistol 5 could be useful in teamfights but wait, blind can be insta condi cleaned and even if they wouldn't for some reason, it's not like u can deal solid dmg so 5(blinded)v4 isn't that much of a deal. Anyways tip for thief players: Switching class was pretty relaxing cause all other classes (tried all, currently ele+war player) are in a better state rn. So don't waste your time, enjoy the game.

    the reason why you cant climb out of trash league is cuz you dont even understand what you are supposed to do, there is a reason why at high ranking team without thief will lose, and people will swap to thief just to not auto lose the game. If enemies afk on a node to stop you from decaping then leave them to it and win X+1 VS X and enjoy free snowball, kill stagger and free win.

    Guess what, thief dmg isn't that good I mean I can go to the enemy point + try 1v1, but by the time I get back to mid my team will loose badly in most of the games. so I've tried healbreaker and I can just go mid cancer heal everyone to 100 almost insta and enjoy 4 kills = 20 points + enough time to rotate to remaining points. Theif is awesome in pve and decent in WvW tho so I guess u cannot have class good in every mode. My last point is, even tho thief is decent in PvP it can be outperformed in almost every field so it's not really worth, unless u really enjoy it or u're in higher ranks.

    I TOOK 3 DEFENSIVE TRAITLINES AND YET MY SKILLS STILL DEAL 5K DAMAGE EACH WITH DEFENSIVE ABILITIES INTEGRATED (be it blind, evade, stun or whatever)... IT'S NOT ENOUGH, I NEED DAMAGE BUFF :(:(:( SWIPE BEING INSTACAST RANGED UNBLOCKABLE CC THAT BYPASSES STABILITY IS NOT ENOUGH I NEED ANOTHER BUFF :(:(:( THIEF DEAD :(:(:(

    The absolute state of this class I stg

    I sure didn't see you bring that up with me when I said I run Trickery, Deadly Arts and Daredevil.

    [INSERT THANOS SAYING "I don't even know who you are"]

    Also for the record, tested all the numbers again just today on zerk amulet, I can confirm all of them except larcenous strike which was a lot lower -and I highlighted my mistake in the original comment for clarity-.

    I confirm also my small advice about getting thinner fingers if you can't kill people on thief 'cause honestly if you can't get a kill even on an immortal class only a dev console could make it any easier.

    This is such bs, anyone can go into the mists and run cs,trickery and dd or da, trickery and dd with a dp build and go invis/steal bs and see the damage on the heavy golem is 3-4k somthing. Most thief players no their avg dps of most builds they use. If uve got certain boons, enemie meets certain criteria ie health threshold for traits like executioner and such and hit glassy targets sometimes u can get upwards of 8k crits on backstab especially if running core da,cs, and trickery along with zerker but that is far from the norm though. A normal dd build with trickery and cs/da hits for anywhere between 2k-4k with 5k-6k if certain criteria are met. People on these forums need to stop inflating their damage numbers to fit their agenda especially when trying to state them as the avg.

    Did you know, light armor target takes 37,55% more damage then heavy golem? now you know.

    I mentioned glassy targets, as they should take more damage as a light armor or glassy build, also some lights can sustain through healing and barriers aka ele. Lower their burst more and u want them to hit heavy's for 1.5k while hitting glass for 3.5k cuz that be real viable burst right their for a rogue like.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 18, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

    It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers 🙄

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

    It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers 🙄

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    Yeah they do as they should because it's only because of arguements regarding thief that some made up rule that high mobility means low bursts which is the opposite of what u see with any rogue archetype in every mmo etc which is low hp/armor, low sustained damage but high mobility and burst through teleports and other mean and usually if not always resort to those movements and gimmicks as a means to sustain itself ie stealth and ports etc. Nighblade in eso= stealth and teleportation, rogue in wow= stealth and teleportation, bdo ninja= stealth teleportation all with a high burst hit and run type playstyle and gw2 is and shouldn't be any different. That said just like the rogue like being similar in every mmo they also recieve the same complaints in every forum, except wow as it seems everyone has just except led the perma stealth gank playstyle of rogue and mostly complain when its cc or burst is to high like the beginning of pre patch where subs burst was bit overturned.

    It should be high risk (lower substain) high reward (higher burst) not low risk (high substain due to stealth, evade) and low reward (noodle dmg) and lost point bc impossible to duell any class in this game on point compared to low risk bunkers 🙄

    The fact ur using active means as ur way of sustain such as evades and stealth which most time requires stacking skills which also uses the thief's global resourse is perfectly fine along with low hp/armor but high burst and low sustained damage. U can't have even a high burst class having no way to sustain itself as thst would be horrible design but instead should have to depend on evades, stealth and teleportation while non burst classes should have blocks and barriers and other means to sustain itself while in the fight allowing them to apply their damage consistently throughout the fight, that with the added hp/armor are the upside to soposed less burst but in gw2 these classes have often times high mobility and burst as well and has been this way in gw2 so long its accepted and normalized and is one reason why the balance in this game is so horribly bad.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    It probably isn't the initiative system why Thieves are weak.

    I believe the problem actually is Thief's runaway disengage potential.
    Thief can have far too much access to Stealth and mobility.
    In my opinion, that's were Thief should get nerfed in exchange for having more damage.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The people finding issue with Thief isn't in group v group.
    And any thief that shows themselves in a group v group gets dumpstered, and any group having a thief need to rely on the thief not fighting to pull their worth.

    It's all so utterly silly.
    Crazy idea but what if we got rid of Ini system and give Thief some actual skills with bite, but placing them on a cooldown?
    And everytime they Steal, they will by default refresh one of their skills?

    I mean pretty sure people are tired of having spammable weak skills right?

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Why doesn't it, cuz u dont think it fits? Who made the rule high mobility= low burst?

    Lmao, Power Mesmer, Power Rev, Power Warrior, Power Soulbeast and even to some extent Power Holo literally defies the idea of "high mobility = low burst"

    my idea for thief was that they would have skills with cooldowns as anyone else, but once per cooldown they would be able to bypass the cooldown and pay it in initiative instead. inc ini pool to like 100, have 5 ini reg/s. and skills cost ~40-60 ini depending on impact.
    that was thief has to know what their skills actually do instead of using only 2-3, maybe it would take some effort to play the class, also also. This would fix the stealth blast spamming, 6s while in combat, 12s out of combat if you switch between sets. Actually balanced.