Delete raid LFG, replace with community finding/creating tools — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Delete raid LFG, replace with community finding/creating tools

Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools. Raids themselves aren't bad (though still crazy difficult). Raid can actually be fun if you have a good instructor & geared people who are willing to learn. What isn't healthy is people going to LFG, and seeing insane requirements and tons of clears being sold in exchange for gold over actual training runs. And doing a training run over LFG is tacky because you dont' really know if the people who are joining the group will have the required gear for the roles you need (it doesn't tell you/let you filter who joins, etc). In other MMOs the technical difficulty isn't as bad (alot of the mechanics in GW2 are twitch) and the gear you need for whatever class you're playing also comes much more naturally (or even overlaps your multiple roles), whereas in GW2, you have have to spend a lot of time farming for the gear you need, and even gearing multiple roles between professions, just like there isn't a 1:1 mapping in how raids work in this game against other MMOs, there shouldn't be a 1:1 mapping for how groups are formed.

I think deleting the raid LFG would be the healthiest thing for raids. And if there's a place for people to find the communities they're looking for instead, that will work. If they're not supposed to be puggable, don't imply it with a tool.

Comments

  • Katary.7096Katary.7096 Member ✭✭

    Ingame community finding/ building tools sound like a good idea, but as of right now the timing is off, as raids in gw2 seem to be halfway out the door already. So the question is: What is to be gained from it?
    I would like to see the evidence which leads you to conclude that gw2 raids are "crazy difficult" and that gear acquisition is a problem in this game.

    Lastly, the attitude of "you are going to play the game my way or not at all" is probably neither desired nor helpful, so the removal of the pugging option gets a strict "no" from me.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2020

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools. Raids themselves aren't bad (though still crazy difficult). Raid can actually be fun if you have a good instructor & geared people who are willing to learn. What isn't healthy is people going to LFG, and seeing insane requirements and tons of clears being sold in exchange for gold over actual training runs. And doing a training run over LFG is tacky because you dont' really know if the people who are joining the group will have the required gear for the roles you need (it doesn't tell you/let you filter who joins, etc). In other MMOs the technical difficulty isn't as bad (alot of the mechanics in GW2 are twitch) and the gear you need for whatever class you're playing also comes much more naturally (or even overlaps your multiple roles), whereas in GW2, you have have to spend a lot of time farming for the gear you need, and even gearing multiple roles between professions, just like there isn't a 1:1 mapping in how raids work in this game against other MMOs, there shouldn't be a 1:1 mapping for how groups are formed.

    I think deleting the raid LFG would be the healthiest thing for raids. And if there's a place for people to find the communities they're looking for instead, that will work. If they're not supposed to be puggable, don't imply it with a tool.

    It would hurt raids so no. If players want to learn raids then they can follow the tips given ad nauseum. If you want a group that doesn't have requirements then create your own with the description saying that all skill levels are welcome or something like that.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A tool is just a tool in the end. They are neither good nor evil but they are certainly needed. My static mostly uses the LFG while looking for randoms to fill in for our members. We set high requirements, those who happen to meet said requirements join knowing they may expect quick and easy runs. Simple enough and both sides win.

    The old dungeon LFG website is still up if you want to know what people would end up using if they actually removed the ingame feature. It's what we used before the LFG was introduced. You'd certainly weed out a few newer players who haven't been introduced to such websites but is that actually a good thing? I am not the biggest fan of raid selling myself but there is certainly a demand for it. People wouldn't bother to do so otherwise.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    Raid lfg hasn't really had any problems for me, and I think a different system would just do even more filtering in a bad direction. I've ran with a few lfg groups w/ no requirements on them recently, and while none of them were smooth clears and some of them definitely expected experience w/o advertising for it...and sometimes we had players who were fresh lv80s with maybe a week playtime at most, who came in and were our lowest dps not doing any boon providing roles and absolutely were the reason a group that only just met dps checks in the first place were not clearing. In those cases, the player was usually kicked or asked to leave with a whisper providing advice on raid builds & guides. I would much rather the latter thing occur than have those players steered away from raids by barriers immediately, but that's just me.

    Raids absolutely are puggable....after a bit of training. You don't need a highly organised group to kill, you just need 10 people who know all the mechanics of the fight and can actually do them, but those people don't happen without being told what the mechanics are and being given chances to wipe in order to learn most of the time. As long as people know the fight pugging is fine.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools.

    Why not keep the LFG for those that still use and create better community finding/building tools? Why remove something that already exists and has its own use and replace it with something else, and not have both at the same time. I'd love to see an in-game guild browser where guilds can advertise their specific needs, it wouldn't be good for Raids alone but the entire game.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this is only lfg tool, you can not use it if don't want and make inner giuld runs to dungeon and raids how we do inside guild.
    Just don't use that tab, and find pve guild if want raid.

  • Zohane.7208Zohane.7208 Member ✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools. Raids themselves aren't bad (though still crazy difficult). Raid can actually be fun if you have a good instructor & geared people who are willing to learn. What isn't healthy is people going to LFG, and seeing insane requirements and tons of clears being sold in exchange for gold over actual training runs. And doing a training run over LFG is tacky because you dont' really know if the people who are joining the group will have the required gear for the roles you need (it doesn't tell you/let you filter who joins, etc). In other MMOs the technical difficulty isn't as bad (alot of the mechanics in GW2 are twitch) and the gear you need for whatever class you're playing also comes much more naturally (or even overlaps your multiple roles), whereas in GW2, you have have to spend a lot of time farming for the gear you need, and even gearing multiple roles between professions, just like there isn't a 1:1 mapping in how raids work in this game against other MMOs, there shouldn't be a 1:1 mapping for how groups are formed.

    I think deleting the raid LFG would be the healthiest thing for raids. And if there's a place for people to find the communities they're looking for instead, that will work. If they're not supposed to be puggable, don't imply it with a tool.

    So, let's assume Anet replaces "Raid LFG" with "Raid Community Builder" - what would be better seeing these "insane requirements" there over today's LFG?

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm glad we have any in game LFG. I remember the days when you had to go to an external web site to find groups....

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:
    Rebranding the tool isn't going to change how people use it.

    It won't be quite the same if it yields no group directly. You still have to join the community and communicate with people in it.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools.

    Why not keep the LFG for those that still use and create better community finding/building tools? Why remove something that already exists and has its own use and replace it with something else, and not have both at the same time. I'd love to see an in-game guild browser where guilds can advertise their specific needs, it wouldn't be good for Raids alone but the entire game.

    Two reasons:

    1) raids are complex enough they're not intended to be pugged at all, and lfg tool implies puggable on some level.
    2) what's in lfg doesn't effectively communicate to players the right way to get into raids.

    You want the way your game is structured to communicate how to play the game. At least that's something i believe. But i wouldn't be opposed to better community tools before deleting it. But i don't think it's valuable to the game in its current state (especially NA).

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @knite.1542 said:
    Rebranding the tool isn't going to change how people use it.

    It won't be quite the same if it yields no group directly. You still have to join the community and communicate with people in it.

    Can you give some details about exactly how this tool you are proposing will look and work?

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools.

    Why not keep the LFG for those that still use and create better community finding/building tools? Why remove something that already exists and has its own use and replace it with something else, and not have both at the same time. I'd love to see an in-game guild browser where guilds can advertise their specific needs, it wouldn't be good for Raids alone but the entire game.

    Two reasons:

    1) raids are complex enough they're not intended to be pugged at all, and lfg tool implies puggable on some level.

    Raids are very much puggable.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I'm completely serious, delete LFG for raids, replace with community finding/building tools.

    Why not keep the LFG for those that still use and create better community finding/building tools? Why remove something that already exists and has its own use and replace it with something else, and not have both at the same time. I'd love to see an in-game guild browser where guilds can advertise their specific needs, it wouldn't be good for Raids alone but the entire game.

    Two reasons:

    1) raids are complex enough they're not intended to be pugged at all, and lfg tool implies puggable on some level.
    2) what's in lfg doesn't effectively communicate to players the right way to get into raids.

    You want the way your game is structured to communicate how to play the game. At least that's something i believe. But i wouldn't be opposed to better community tools before deleting it. But i don't think it's valuable to the game in its current state (especially NA).

    1. Raids are very puggable. That's how Kitty's raided for almost 3 years.
    2. When it comes to any organized gameplay in GW2, it's pretty much either guilds, discord servers and/or statics. Creating new way to make raid communities is very very unlikely to change that. But meanwhile there's peoples who can't join such guilds for whatever reason, can't use discord for some reason (usually potato) and can't join statics (due to requiring a mic or working a 3-shift job or some other circumstances). Removing LFG would close raids off from those peoples totally.
      Though when it comes to NA currently, LFG seems to be quite dead even on mondays, probably in huge part due to lots of raid veterans having left the game now that Anet isn't working on new raids and old bosses have already been killed hundreds of times so it's not like pugging is much of an option anymore if you want full clears, at least in Kitty's experience. (which is why Kitty's also quit GW2 pretty much and when she occasionally logs in and raids, she seriously memes the hell out of it) But for those who try to raid casually or statics looking for spontaneous fillers, it's still there.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • PRIME.3085PRIME.3085 Member ✭✭
    1. Raids are really easy. The only boss that is somewhat hard is Dhuum CM. Others are just patheticly easy(of course if you have competent players)
    2. How is your tool going to work? I would be glad if it showed how many boss kills you have so you woulnd't have to think whether people are faking their kp or not.
  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2020

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @knite.1542 said:
    Rebranding the tool isn't going to change how people use it.

    It won't be quite the same if it yields no group directly. You still have to join the community and communicate with people in it.

    Nah, Raiders will just start posting in other LFG categories. The same way how they did it before raid lfg category was created.

    I mean, i assume you're not going to ask for removal of LFG as a whole, because that would be crazy.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.