Great work, but Renegade

I really love the variety we are seeing in builds now. I feel like there's no stupid class to bring to PvP anymore. We aren't just seeing the same 5 builds over and over again. Really fun, really appreciate the changes that made this possible.

Renegade's DPS is stupid high. Needs nerfing. I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

It's fun to see them in the arena's more and a more relevant class, but they need off the steroids. They need to be taken down from their godly pedestal, lowered to the level of the rest of us mere mortals. They are Balthazar in their current state.

20+ might stacks with high damage scaling will do that for you. Aoe daze spam allows them to be pretty safe too. High uptime of reflect completely counters them.

@WillPaharu.4837 said:I really love the variety we are seeing in builds now. I feel like there's no stupid class to bring to PvP anymore. We aren't just seeing the same 5 builds over and over again. Really fun, really appreciate the changes that made this possible.

Renegade's DPS is stupid high. Needs nerfing. I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

It's fun to see them in the arena's more and a more relevant class, but they need off the steroids. They need to be taken down from their godly pedestal, lowered to the level of the rest of us mere mortals. They are Balthazar in their current state.

Guardians first~ In WvW and PvP.

@FrownyClown.8402 said:20+ might stacks with high damage scaling will do that for you. Aoe daze spam allows them to be pretty safe too. High uptime of reflect completely counters them.

Condi is also a good answer since any build without Jalis or Mallyx has awful cleanse or resistance uptime, especially if they're running Lasting Legacy for the extra might over Righteous Rebel.

Isn't it funny that every time that there is over kill damage rev build shiro is involved but no one says anything about it. Also lets buff Seven shot to do shit load of power damage even though it is hybrid damge skill. Like no one is doing the math on these things here.

@WillPaharu.4837 said:I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

Fire balls? You got hit by a citadel bombardment. It's one of the most avoidable skills in the game. It also comes with a hefty energy cost so most won't bother casting it unless their target is in hard CC first. If you're unfortunate enough to tank one, offer up a prayer to the RNG gods and maybe 99% of the missiles will miss you.

Look for the big orange portal above the renegade's head and you'll know when to dodge. If you get hit by scorchrazer, be prepared to stunbreak or immediatly dodge when the stun ends so you don't tank all of the missles.

It's a bit of a meme. Costly, hard to land, but huge payoff if it does. Basically the equivalent of a Falcon Punch in Gw2.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@WillPaharu.4837 said:I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

Seven shot can look like a fireball to someone who doesn’t know what it is.

And yes, the damage is really high. Especially considering the conditions the weapon skill also puts out. But the same applies to grenades and 10 other builds because for some reason the devs just like throwing conditions on every weapon.

@Bast.7253 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@"WillPaharu.4837" said:I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

Shortbow damage is very high.Shortbow defense is also very low

Its the only shortbow in the game with no evade or mobility. It's basically designed as a longbow but with 300 less range. People here often talk about tradeoffs "If you want this you have to sacrifice that". Renegade sacrifices mobility and defense in exchange for damage. It relies on its pressure to deter thieves and Prevs from turning it into mincemeat.

If you want to lower the damage, then as a tradeoff, Renegade should recieve better defensive tools (e.g. replacing the useless SB2 with an evade. Nerf Sevenshot's damage and the turn that into SB2, Put the evade on Sb3 so it has a higher CD and isn't too spammable).

Nerfing their damage with no compensation would delete the spec from PvP... which is what a lot of people want.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Bast.7253 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@"WillPaharu.4837" said:I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

Come on, just look at the damage coefficient and cooldown of Sevenshot compared to every other skill in PvP and try telling us it isn't overtuned with a straight face.

@Vancho.8750 said:Isn't it funny that every time that there is over kill damage rev build shiro is involved but no one says anything about it. Also lets buff Seven shot to do kitten load of power damage even though it is hybrid damge skill. Like no one is doing the math on these things here.

? Cuz shiro has a port for movility or u want revs to has cero movility? U know the difference between tank meta and not tank meta is stuff with movility and good burst

@mixxed.5862 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Bast.7253 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@"WillPaharu.4837" said:I got these fire balls flung at me and I was dead in 0.2 seconds. Had full health 0.2 seconds before that. The combination with their stuns and the barrage of hits, it's hard to dodge it all. Please devs, hear the cries of the people. help us. Renegade's are taking over!!!

Look at Continuum Split and tell me the ability to double cast multiple utilites and weapon skills (including ults) of your choosing isn't overtuned.

Just because a class has one over performing component does not mean that the class itself is over performing. It's popular to think of a "balanced" class as one in which each moving part is neither too strong or too weak. In reality, what you tend to find is a set of pros and cons. Strong areas and weak areas.

To repeat what I said before. Shortbow damage (Namely seven shot) is very highIt's defense is very low.

If you want to lower the damage because it is too high, while balancing the class rather than simply killing it off, then the nerfs should accompany a defense buff on the weapon. Shortbow offers very little outside of damage. No mobility, evades, blocks, cleanses, or sustain. That is why the damage is allowed to be so high.

@wevh.2903 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Isn't it funny that every time that there is over kill damage rev build shiro is involved but no one says anything about it. Also lets buff Seven shot to do kitten load of power damage even though it is hybrid damge skill. Like no one is doing the math on these things here.

@Vancho.8750 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Isn't it funny that every time that there is over kill damage rev build shiro is involved but no one says anything about it. Also lets buff Seven shot to do kitten load of power damage even though it is hybrid damge skill. Like no one is doing the math on these things here.

I mean what do u wanna fight renegade kalla bunker or shiro? I would rather fight shiro but ofc rev has been meta since its release . There wasnt single time when rev was bad xd

@Vancho.8750 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Isn't it funny that every time that there is over kill damage rev build shiro is involved but no one says anything about it. Also lets buff Seven shot to do kitten load of power damage even though it is hybrid damge skill. Like no one is doing the math on these things here.

This Renegade hate is funny, most of the damage comes from the fact that if you don't evade as one, you keep very high critical shot. That also should be telling what weakness they have.

They can put Deathstrike damage on Sevenshot, it'll still be good and you'll still have to avoid it to not die, Shortbow is all and only offensive as a weapon which is very clunky but little is known about that.

If you're just that player spamming all your skills while you have Weakness on yourself, you deserve to lose. Same goes for the people saying "Hurr durr Jalis stability uptime", why are you CC'ing someone with stability when it's clear nothing is going to happen unless you have the means to counter it.

Most mechanics that were ignored in GW2 are slowly becoming useful and barely anyone is used to them. In fact, it was the reason why nobody played Jalis first hand until few grabbed it up and began to play with it. Me per say always had a preference for it with Mallyx until they destroyed Core Condition for Herald. This is how I ended up on Renegade, I always liked the build I am currently using and sharing around, the Shortbow being finally usable is just icing on the cake, S/S was always good otherwise.

Renegades in general are also pretty weak to Blinds and Aegis because it's all it takes to nullify their setup.

@FrownyClown.8402 said:20+ might stacks with high damage scaling will do that for you. Aoe daze spam allows them to be pretty safe too. High uptime of reflect completely counters them.

And know this, their AoE daze spam can be easily nullified with one AoE CC, leaving them with nothing but legend swap to save themselves from a trainwreck.

After a few duells with a shortbow renegade I think there is one major issue that makes this build extremely strong (a bit to strong), which is not sevenshot but scorchrazer. That knockdown is the setup for the burst skills and either its cooldown or its energy consumption is too low. A 2 second knockdown every 12 seconds at 16 energy cost is too much on such a weapon. The burst skills itself are dealable.

I'm not sure if I can take this post seriously. Literally now is the ONLY time since PoF and introduction of Renegade, that the class is sooooomewhat viable in sPvP. It has been total meme / trash tier all the way up to Feb patch.
And as some folks above have said, the shortbow has huge tradeoff as it lacks defences...plus it's still a very clunky weapon to use.

i agree renegade is really strong... but its focused easier than Heraldalso condis and reflects shit on the spec

i guess just a small CD increse on sevenshot would do the trick... maybe from 7 to 9-10s