New Raid Meta! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New Raid Meta!

Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 7, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids
  1. Chrono, condi support soulbeast, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver
  2. Chrono, condi support warrior, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver

GG diversity

Calling dips on this comp, it's called the Zlater comp. Also everyone must now equip their heal skill for the first time.
Also chronos must now perma distort everything, they will now be forced to bleed also from their ears and eyes trying to line up distortion with aura damage.

<1

Comments

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    1. Chrono, condi support soulbeast, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver
    2. Chrono, condi support warrior, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver

    GG diversity

    Calling dips on this comp, it's called the Zlater comp. Also everyone must now equip their heal skill for the first time.
    Also chronos must now perma distort everything, they will now be forced to bleed also from their ears and eyes trying to line up distortion with aura damage.

    Except condi weaver is bad at literally everything except single target dps against a stationary boss before their fgs disappears (which got a significant nerf anyways). It has garbage cc, no real utility, poor cleave against multiple enemies, requires targets to stand in extremely small aoe's and lowest health/armor with no real other defenses to make up for it so good luck keeping them alive without a real healer.

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    1. Chrono, condi support soulbeast, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver
    2. Chrono, condi support warrior, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver

    GG diversity

    Calling dips on this comp, it's called the Zlater comp. Also everyone must now equip their heal skill for the first time.
    Also chronos must now perma distort everything, they will now be forced to bleed also from their ears and eyes trying to line up distortion with aura damage.

    Except condi weaver is bad at literally everything except single target dps against a stationary boss before their fgs disappears (which got a significant nerf anyways). It has garbage cc, no real utility, poor cleave against multiple enemies, requires targets to stand in extremely small aoe's and lowest health/armor with no real other defenses to make up for it so good luck keeping them alive without a real healer.

    Don't be scrub, nobody uses defenses, what is this 2k14? Also l2p boss shouldn't be moving -_-

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zlater.6789 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Zlater.6789 said:
    1. Chrono, condi support soulbeast, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver
    2. Chrono, condi support warrior, condi weaver, condi weaver, condi weaver

    GG diversity

    Calling dips on this comp, it's called the Zlater comp. Also everyone must now equip their heal skill for the first time.
    Also chronos must now perma distort everything, they will now be forced to bleed also from their ears and eyes trying to line up distortion with aura damage.

    Except condi weaver is bad at literally everything except single target dps against a stationary boss before their fgs disappears (which got a significant nerf anyways). It has garbage cc, no real utility, poor cleave against multiple enemies, requires targets to stand in extremely small aoe's and lowest health/armor with no real other defenses to make up for it so good luck keeping them alive without a real healer.

    Don't be scrub, nobody uses defenses, what is this 2k14? Also l2p boss shouldn't be moving -_-

    Ironically 2k14 was when nothing but dps mattered since bosses could be bursted down to dead before they could even fight back. But now raids take a bit longer and passive damage auras will kill many builds on their own without supplemental healing.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    Of all the top dog PoF classes as usual the guardians were left virtually unscathed, so firebrand will be even more OP than it already was while renegade and soulbeast eat kitten and weaver got its deserved nerfs.

    It's going to be firebrand all day everyday now....they are so incompetent.

    The scourge buffs that were mentioned didn't even happen, just a few more extra torment stacks on desert shroud it's pathetic.

    6 weeks for so little changes. Productivity in this company is atrocious.

    Go back and reread the notes. Quickfire was nerfed pretty hard.

  • CptAurellian.9537CptAurellian.9537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    Of all the top dog PoF classes as usual the guardians were left virtually unscathed, so firebrand will be even more OP than it already was while renegade and soulbeast eat kitten and weaver got its deserved nerfs.

    Quickfire took quite a hit that will result in a noticeable dps drop in group content. No need to whine about guardians remaining unscathed.

    Praise delta!

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    For non-distorted runs, Kitty would say either 2 chronos or a rev and firebrand replacing one chrono. 2 healers, 1 DPS warr with banners, some might source and DPSers. Doesn't really matter how those are done as long as people get the alacrity, quickness, might and fury somewhat covered. Ol' good mantra "enough heals, enough support and enough DPS".

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:
    For non-distorted runs, Kitty would say either 2 chronos or a rev and firebrand replacing one chrono. 2 healers, 1 DPS warr with banners, some might source and DPSers. Doesn't really matter how those are done as long as people get the alacrity, quickness, might and fury somewhat covered. Ol' good mantra "enough heals, enough support and enough DPS".

    Well without a reason for druid, I don't really see us leaning toward a double dedicated healing strategy. Condi soulbeast has 10-man heals now with spirit of water, there are also other options like running jungle stalker for heals, pig for heals and cc. And if they realllllly need, they can run spirit of Nature instead of One Wolf Pack also don't forget nature magic. Mesmers dropping well of eternity here and there, emergency heals from a firebrand or an occasional wash away the pain from Tempest or any ele that swaps to water momentarily..

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast
    there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @musu.9205 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast
    there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

    Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

    For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

    I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

  • No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My Harrier druid can keep perma might reliably, and if you have an ele or renegade in your raid there should really be no issues whatsoever keeping permanent stacks of might and fury between those three.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

    Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

    Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

    Now that depends on how you build those other classes and how you rotate the might boons. Kitty hasn't had any real issues with such on most classes when she's been trying to turn them into mightbots (and pretty much every class but engi can do that somewhat efficiently).

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @musu.9205 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast
    there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

    Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

    For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

    I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

    gor / vg , cm samg , rather than those , i think most thing can be done with aegis spam .in some cases it might be even more reliable than distortion .you don't need 2 chrono for sloth shake , and fear can be block or cover with resistance . well you can't fully block matt attack but aegis spam seems good enough to me . kc is bit tricky since aura dmg is blockable i remember .
    i don't think firebrand + rev is good at carin but who knows . on MO and deimos they can be really good

  • Mikeskies.1536Mikeskies.1536 Member ✭✭✭

    New Meta is going to be Druid, Chronomancer x2, Soulbeast, Condi DPS Warrior, Fill x 5.

    From initial testing, it appears as though all DPS builds have been brought down to 30k DPS. Might-stacking builds (cPS, Renegade, Scourge, Deadeye) are around 26k DPS.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mikeskies.1536 said:
    New Meta is going to be Druid, Chronomancer x2, Soulbeast, Condi DPS Warrior, Fill x 5.

    From initial testing, it appears as though all DPS builds have been brought down to 30k DPS. Might-stacking builds (cPS, Renegade, Scourge, Deadeye) are around 26k DPS.

    Who's filling the second heal spot? Pretty sure that soulbeast isn't required and it'll be a healer rev/temp

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Zlater.6789Zlater.6789 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Mikeskies.1536 said:
    New Meta is going to be Druid, Chronomancer x2, Soulbeast, Condi DPS Warrior, Fill x 5.

    From initial testing, it appears as though all DPS builds have been brought down to 30k DPS. Might-stacking builds (cPS, Renegade, Scourge, Deadeye) are around 26k DPS.

    Who's filling the second heal spot? Pretty sure that soulbeast isn't required and it'll be a healer rev/temp

    Who said you needed mirror comp? I think it would be a 5-4-1 setup with druid taking the 1 spot. something like:

    Chrono-soul beast-dps-dps-dps
    Chrono-warrior-dps-dps
    Druid

    In this comp, a soul beast would definitely use "leader of the pack" to share "one wolf pack" to the 3 dedicated dps. At least that's what I think @Mikeskies.1536 is saying here. Can you confirm that?

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Zlater.6789 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @Mikeskies.1536 said:
    New Meta is going to be Druid, Chronomancer x2, Soulbeast, Condi DPS Warrior, Fill x 5.

    From initial testing, it appears as though all DPS builds have been brought down to 30k DPS. Might-stacking builds (cPS, Renegade, Scourge, Deadeye) are around 26k DPS.

    Who's filling the second heal spot? Pretty sure that soulbeast isn't required and it'll be a healer rev/temp

    Who said you needed mirror comp? I think it would be a 5-4-1 setup with druid taking the 1 spot. something like:

    Chrono-soul beast-dps-dps-dps
    Chrono-warrior-dps-dps
    Druid

    In this comp, a soul beast would definitely use "leader of the pack" to share "one wolf pack" to the 3 dedicated dps. At least that's what I think @Mikeskies.1536 is saying here. Can you confirm that?

    Chrono-druid-dps-dps-dps
    Chrono-Healerrev/tempest-warrior-dps-dps

    Seems more appropriate to me, are we going to put all the healing on one druid ?

    Sure add a soulbeast in somewhere, but I'm pretty sure we'll need a second healer

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    Probably still gonna be 2x chrono, 1x condi druid/soulbeast, 1x heal druid. And instead of 2 cps its 1 condi berserker, rest fill up with dps.

    Only exception: KC due to power only mechanic and subsequently no condi subgroup.

    Condi renegade still cant keep up 100% alacrity, imo, so we are still in nearly the same position with 2x chrono as before patch.

    Condi druid/soulbeast only brings sunspirit and glyphs, heal druid brings the other spirits and glyphs. Im pretty sure tiger and warhorn is enough to keep up fury, though other sources sure make it easier on the chronos. You still have 3 cc pets on bosses where necessary, and overall you gain 1 full dps slot, while getting more defense due to stonespirit.

    Speedclear probably can run this with 2 condi druids (one of them with traveler runes maybe?)

    All in all, power dps are fighting a loosing battle to stay in meta for bosses other than KC. Well except Holosmith, that is. So EA isnt mandatory anymore in each group.

    Tbh, Id probably run something like this on every boss except KC, even though its not optimal on VG, Gorse or Sloth either.
    Group1: Chrono, Buffdruid, Holosmith, Condi Renegade, Condi Berserker
    Group2: Chrono, Condidruid/soulbeast, Fill with nice dps combos, maybe a scourge if you have trouble with sustain or adds

    But... I havent tested more than a few builds so far, so this is highly theoretical.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    I'd say ditch 1 dps for an extra healer (probably in g5). Aura tempest for instance. It will allow a lot more mistakes to be made and make the run a lot smoother than slotting an extra dps. Ventari rev is also a possibility, especially if you find you might lacking.

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    Alot of suggestions assume 1healer, I'm pretty sure two healers will be pretty standard, 2druids. 1druid1tempest. 1druid1rev. Whatever it will be.

    What am I missing with all the one healer suggestions I've seen. I'm pretty sure pugs will still run two healers

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

    Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

    And not just that, you can't really replace banners and empower allies, so there will always be at least one warrior.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    Pugs will run two healers and likely should, but you can just run a rene or tempest now instead of 2 druids if you want. You can effectively solo heal as a harrier druid without much issue though. It's still more healing than the previous 2 condi druids could offer in coordinated comps.

    Basically, it's flexible. Which is a large upgrade over 2/2/2 mirror.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

    Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

    Nah, Druid can apply 16 seconds might, reaches 25 stacks alone on 10 people. With alacrity you have around 9 seconds between CA cooldown and might running out. Fill the rest with other skills. PS warriors are not good anymore. Just take a DPS warrior with 2 banners.

  • Mikeskies.1536Mikeskies.1536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    No question that we will still have double Chrono, but I think we'll still see double CPS Warriors. They're still the most efficient Might sharing, they just won't be able to do 25 stacks on their own.

    There is better might stackers which do reach 25 stacks. Why settle for a might stacker which does not provide 25 stacks over one that does?

    Warrior will likely get run as cdps and 1 banner warrior.

    Consistency, really. Phalanx Strength may not be able to hit 25 Might anymore, but what they do give is not going to drop at all. 25 stacks on other professions has very little wiggle-room before they drop several stacks at once. Having a PS Warrior means those cooldowns can be spaced out a little more for much higher consistency.

    Nah, Druid can apply 16 seconds might, reaches 25 stacks alone on 10 people. With alacrity you have around 9 seconds between CA cooldown and might running out. Fill the rest with other skills. PS warriors are not good anymore. Just take a DPS warrior with 2 banners.

    Condi DPS warrior is strong and can supplement might if need be.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:
    Alot of suggestions assume 1healer, I'm pretty sure two healers will be pretty standard, 2druids. 1druid1tempest. 1druid1rev. Whatever it will be.

    What am I missing with all the one healer suggestions I've seen. I'm pretty sure pugs will still run two healers

    1 healer ele can not just carry through a raid, it will completely cake walk you through it minus one shots or almost one shot mechanics. Even then with the changes to geyser they can AoE Rez incredibly well. Did Matthias yesterday on healer tempest the other healer died and so did 2 others to a ghost/fire tornado or some one shot that no healer can make up for but I could keep the other raid members not only healthy but with scholar buff. There’s a lot of healers that put out much more healing than druids it’s just not as bursts and for a long time they didn’t have the unique 10% damage buff of GotL.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @musu.9205 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @musu.9205 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast
    there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

    Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

    For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

    I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

    gor / vg , cm samg , rather than those , i think most thing can be done with aegis spam .in some cases it might be even more reliable than distortion .you don't need 2 chrono for sloth shake , and fear can be block or cover with resistance . well you can't fully block matt attack but aegis spam seems good enough to me . kc is bit tricky since aura dmg is blockable i remember .
    i don't think firebrand + rev is good at carin but who knows . on MO and deimos they can be really good

    Yeah I know there’s other options and I do like aegis as well as how much firebrands can poop it out, same with stab, in fact they would help weavers hit those high numbers much better if they can ignore a hit or CC. I was personally thinking if you could run 2 support firebrand for the quickness, heals, stab resistance and everything their kit brings you would then only need a source of alacrity and fill the rest with DPS and might stackers. If for some reason your raid group doesn’t benefit from alacrity (or the benefit of alacrity is outweighed by having another dps instead) then you could run firebrands, a might stacker or two and everyone else dps. Considering GotL can now theoretically keep 25 might on 10 people you could have a druid as your might stacker for even more carry and DPS warrior which still tops people up with might every now and then, 7 DPS team possibly.

    Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

  • Rising Dusk.2408Rising Dusk.2408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

    Valor Zeal [VZ] - Stormbluff Isle

  • Mikeskies.1536Mikeskies.1536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

    My guess is;
    1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS
    2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer
    *Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.
    **Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

  • Rising Dusk.2408Rising Dusk.2408 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Mikeskies.1536 said:
    My guess is;
    1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS
    2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer
    *Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.
    **Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

    If you're running a Druid there's no reason for it to not take the spirits (especially since they'll be traited). The only time the Soulbeast would run a spirit is if your group wants protection from Stone Spirit on the Druid, in which case you'd have the Soulbeast take Sun Spirit.

    Valor Zeal [VZ] - Stormbluff Isle

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017

    @Mikeskies.1536 said:

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

    My guess is;
    1: Druid, Chronomancer, DPS, DPS, DPS
    2: Soulbeast*, Chronomancer, Berserker**, DPS, DPS/Healer
    *Taking Sun Spirit and Spotter.
    **Taking Banner of Strength and Banner of Discipline.

    The soul beast doesn’t strictly need to bring a spirit either so can simply be soul beast dps so that comp would be 6 dps, 7 if you count the berserker and if the chrono runs minstrels it means that sub group won’t need anything more than splash over heals from the Druid if the Druid goes healer.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @musu.9205 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @musu.9205 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    it could be either might stack druid , renegade (condi )and firebrand or soulbeast , renegade (healer) and firebrand or dps chrono for quickness and rev healer + soulbeast
    there will be more off meta option and unlike before patch , the dps difference won't be huge since there are more comp can cover all buffs .

    Anywhere that has mechanics that can be distorted to be ignored will likely still use 2 chrono which then removes any buff consolidation for alacrity and quickness. RIP PS war but that warrior can now run DPS so we'd technically be in a 6 DPS meta regardless and that's even looking at potentially having 2 might stackers/healers as you can now consolidate those roles in druid. If you can get away with 2 condi druids like some top guilds we will probably see a massive decrease in clear times for them.

    For most casual groups or ones that want to try something different then options on some bosses got a lot more interesting. I'm going to be looking at Particular's old healer tempest and seeing how that could be worked into some of our bosses if only for trying out something different while not missing out on any buffs thanks to the condi druid.

    I'm looking forward to Nike's video regardless.

    gor / vg , cm samg , rather than those , i think most thing can be done with aegis spam .in some cases it might be even more reliable than distortion .you don't need 2 chrono for sloth shake , and fear can be block or cover with resistance . well you can't fully block matt attack but aegis spam seems good enough to me . kc is bit tricky since aura dmg is blockable i remember .
    i don't think firebrand + rev is good at carin but who knows . on MO and deimos they can be really good

    Yeah I know there’s other options and I do like aegis as well as how much firebrands can poop it out, same with stab, in fact they would help weavers hit those high numbers much better if they can ignore a hit or CC. I was personally thinking if you could run 2 support firebrand for the quickness, heals, stab resistance and everything their kit brings you would then only need a source of alacrity and fill the rest with DPS and might stackers. If for some reason your raid group doesn’t benefit from alacrity (or the benefit of alacrity is outweighed by having another dps instead) then you could run firebrands, a might stacker or two and everyone else dps. Considering GotL can now theoretically keep 25 might on 10 people you could have a druid as your might stacker for even more carry and DPS warrior which still tops people up with might every now and then, 7 DPS team possibly.

    Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

    i tested rev condi build with highest alacrity uptime . its good with 20k around dps , could be higher but alacrity had some downtime , its much easier to get interrupted if that happens when in other stance without tablet the alacrity could be kitten very quickly

  • Swiftwynd.1685Swiftwynd.1685 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    I'd say ditch 1 dps for an extra healer (probably in g5). Aura tempest for instance. It will allow a lot more mistakes to be made and make the run a lot smoother than slotting an extra dps. Ventari rev is also a possibility, especially if you find you might lacking.

    Even better, a support Scourge if you are even remotely concerned about anything going wrong or want some additional might and regen, and great hps in group. It has the best, fastest, most frequent revives and pulls 5 allies from 600 radius.

  • @LadyKitty.6120 said:

    Now that depends on how you build those other classes and how you rotate the might boons. Kitty hasn't had any real issues with such on most classes when she's been trying to turn them into mightbots (and pretty much every class but engi can do that somewhat efficiently).

    Well Kitty should try harder a build like this one : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelsThatY7WwALQ7FLDGV4B0f/3XAsetnYAeChAA-jxxGQBA4BAcS1fI3JAIN7PoSlgpU5XJ1DQKgA3ZB-e
    And this one is the easiest healer/might stacker you can find for engi (harrier works too ofc)...

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @musu.9205 said:

    Right now the biggest question that needs answering is how much is alacrity worth?

    That would pretty much require someone to do some testing with and without alacrity and also depends on class's auto-attack damage. For a class highly reliant on spamming skills as fast as possible, it might be quite high factor, but for lots of classes and builds...not that much.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

  • meeflak.9714meeflak.9714 Member ✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

    Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

    I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

    Main ranger: Adalyn Del Rayna. Plz stop saying raids are toxic.. raids are what you make them

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

    Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

    I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

    Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

    The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rising Dusk.2408 said:

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    g1 chrono dps dps dps
    g2 chrono dps dps dps
    g3 druid
    g4 cps

    You don't want this because the Druid and Warrior aren't guaranteed Quickness, Alacrity, or Distortion shares in this set up. My guess is that the Druid will go in one subgroup and the Warrior in the other, and both will be the might stackers for their respective parties.

    Both druid n war in other group will receive quickness from chrono.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

    Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

    I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

    Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

    The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

    My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

    I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

  • musu.9205musu.9205 Member ✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

    Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

    I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

    Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

    The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

    My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

    I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

    harrier chrono*
    fixed for you
    druid might stack is 10 man tho

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @musu.9205 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @meeflak.9714 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    why not: 2x chronos, 1druid, 1dps warr with banners, 6 dps?

    Where's the second healer. The one who's going to kite oils. Or kite flak, or you know. Support druids already sub optimal healing.

    I still don't see why people expect to go to one healer just Because we only need one druid now.

    Me from this very thread 4th post in or so:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 chronos, druid, warrior (dual banner), 1 healer, 5 dps (might even exchange 1 chrono for firebrand+renegade ending with 6 dps).

    New boss speedclears incomming.

    Speedrun groups might be able to remove the dedicated healer spot for some type of hybrid. 6 dps is now absolutely possible but not with pugs me thinks.

    The more interesting question, which setup will be the most friendly for all bosses aka what will most people run when running 1 comp for all 4 wings (not speedrun statics and pugs). That's where we will have to wait and see what the theorycrafters and raid guilds come up with.

    My money is on minstrel chrono, combine healer, alacrity and quickness bot all into one, have a Druid topping up one group and providing might while a warrior does some might stacking, dps and banners. It may actually provide a small dps buff to arcane weavers too in the form of extra boons and will give permenant protection meaning the never needs stone spirit instead slotting both damage buffs. I take it you have a competent steady raid group to try it out with? If so I am looking forward to hearing how your testing goes.

    I think 6 dps and the quasi dps of CPS or even 7 dps is a possibility for top groups on a fair number of encounters, perhaps not things like Matthias though.

    harrier chrono*
    fixed for you
    druid might stack is 10 man tho

    I think apharma was refering to the tank running minstrel, but yes harrier chrono might be interesting for the 2nd support chrono.

    If you have:
    minstrel chrono - tank and support and healing
    harrier chrono - support and healing
    harrier druid - might, support and healing
    cPS warrior - banners

    You should have a solid group with enough healing for most encounters to free up 6 dps spots. Obviously you could exchange the 2nd chrono for firebrand and revenant exchanging distortion for more dps. I'm looking forward to see what combos emerge.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zlater.6789 said:

    @LadyKitty.6120 said:
    For non-distorted runs, Kitty would say either 2 chronos or a rev and firebrand replacing one chrono. 2 healers, 1 DPS warr with banners, some might source and DPSers. Doesn't really matter how those are done as long as people get the alacrity, quickness, might and fury somewhat covered. Ol' good mantra "enough heals, enough support and enough DPS".

    Well without a reason for druid, I don't really see us leaning toward a double dedicated healing strategy. Condi soulbeast has 10-man heals now with spirit of water, there are also other options like running jungle stalker for heals, pig for heals and cc. And if they realllllly need, they can run spirit of Nature instead of One Wolf Pack also don't forget nature magic. Mesmers dropping well of eternity here and there, emergency heals from a firebrand or an occasional wash away the pain from Tempest or any ele that swaps to water momentarily..

    Druid can replace warrior for the Might source though... With the new change to Grace of the land, having a 10 target might source is pretty strong. So i'm guessing it's more of the opposite, PS Warriors go, Druids stay.

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭

    lets see.... one druid less, on war less...pugs are gonna be wiping cause of lack of cc on matthias/samarog and mb deimos especially if the druid changes one cc pet for tiger (fury). And then druids cannot keep up permanent might unless there's at least 20% boon duration on their build. At least, cause ca recharge is not always fast nor do u always wanna use ca on cooldown. Which means either concentration sigil b4 going into ca or harrier gear.

  • Artemis Thuras.8795Artemis Thuras.8795 Member ✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017

    @zoomborg.9462 said:
    lets see.... one druid less, on war less...pugs are gonna be wiping cause of lack of cc on matthias/samarog and mb deimos especially if the druid changes one cc pet for tiger (fury). And then druids cannot keep up permanent might unless there's at least 20% boon duration on their build. At least, cause ca recharge is not always fast nor do u always wanna use ca on cooldown. Which means either concentration sigil b4 going into ca or harrier gear.

    quick draw procs on enter/exit of CA, meaning it counts as a weapon swap. I haven't tested specifically but merely entering CA should cause concentration sigils to proc if not on cd.

    Also with full harrier you cant get to ~100% boon duration, and ~1400 healing, which is more than enough for a competent druid.

    I do see harrier chronos being more common as the secondary subgroup healer though. I'd say minstrel, but I'd be inclined to have the tank using commanders/knights/whatever, with minstrel in reserve for when you need extra heals/support beyond the druid +harrier chrono.
    Purely because this "locks down" the fewest possible classes/builds. harrier chrono build

    So:
    tank, druid, dps,dps,dps
    harrier chrono, banner war, dps, dps, dps

    the DPS slots are quite flexible/fight dependant..
    extra war/ranger for EA/spotter, a condi rev for AP & kalla elite (lifesteal).
    engi with pinpoint distribution..
    Or just a selfish dps.

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