Is there any cure for Awakened to become what they were before?

Can Joko's curse be cured? Any situation like this have ever happened in the history?

But Awakened are raised from the dead. The cure to make Awakened what they were before (dead) seems to be...us. And our weapons.

The only way I know is to deport them far away where Joko can't reach'em.

! Remember there are this Awakened Sunspear Champion on Domain of Istan that stay on a cave so that Joko can't control him?! He say something about "can't obey what you don't hear"

But as for 100% cured and live again like using phoenix feather, I don't think that's possible, once you dead, you dead.

Mummification is a one-way street, bruv.

What if resurrection was still possible like in GW1?

If someone was alive, died, was awakened, then was killed again could they be resurrected? Or does awakening somehow prevent resurrection?

@Danikat.8537 said:What if resurrection was still possible like in GW1?

If someone was alive, died, was awakened, then was killed again could they be resurrected? Or does awakening somehow prevent resurrection?

I would expect if it were the case, you would be resurrected as you were at the point of the last death - ie still awakened

@Randulf.7614 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:What if resurrection was still possible like in GW1?

If someone was alive, died, was awakened, then was killed again could they be resurrected? Or does awakening somehow prevent resurrection?

just revive them so hard that they get double revived, bypassing the awakened stage. a revive with 99999 healing power

Physically speaking, Oglaf said it best:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Mummification is a one-way street, bruv.

Speaking in terms of mentality: Outside of divine intervention, unknown, but as Koss proved, being unable to hear a command means you do not need to follow it. So... let's go make every Awakened deaf?

@Danikat.8537 said:What if resurrection was still possible like in GW1?

If someone was alive, died, was awakened, then was killed again could they be resurrected? Or does awakening somehow prevent resurrection?

Even in GW1, resurrection had its limitations. Otherwise we would have just resurrected Rurik when we had his undead corpse.

Or Saidra, who's corpse was eventually recovered and cremated. Or Togo.

There seems to be a bit of a statute of limitations for how long someone can be dead yet still resurrected. And it doesn't seem to be very long given Togo.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Even in GW1, resurrection had its limitations. Otherwise we would have just resurrected Rurik when we had his undead corpse.

Or Saidra, who's corpse was eventually recovered and cremated. Or Togo.

There seems to be a bit of a statute of limitations for how long someone can be dead yet still resurrected. And it doesn't seem to be very long given Togo.

Well, in Togo's case, it's possible that his specific manner of death (being sacrificed in order to give Shiro a physical body) prevented him from being resurrected when it otherwise would have worked for him in that short timeframe.

Similar for Saidra, actually - she might have been recaptured and dragged to the Shiverpeaks Bloodstone rather than killed on the spot, which also interferes with resurrection.

But yes, there does appear to be a pretty short limit to how long someone can be dead and still resurrected using GW1-style resurrection.

IIRC, Saidra actually has a scripted death even if you follow her and kill her pursuers (same with Brechnar Ironhammer). She'd run to a certain point and then die.

Usually Anet would just despawn the NPC when their use is done, unless they go into that extra mile of detail.

Unfortunately, killing them alone doesn't do it. There are multiple instances of where a slain Awakened is just re-awakened. Only permanent solution seems to be utterly destroying the body.

Well, we managed to resurrect ourselves in PoF using strong "life" energy. If magical energies can resurrect a burned dead body, I can't see why it couldn't resurrect a preserved dead body.

@"Westenev.5289" said:Well, we managed to resurrect ourselves in PoF using strong "life" energy. If magical energies can resurrect a burned dead body, I can't see why it couldn't resurrect a preserved dead body.This particular case was made clear to be an exception. Most dead people stay dead, at least in GW2's present, and it was only because of the Eater of Souls that we were allowed to resurrect ourselves. Even then, it was probably only because the Eater was gathering up so much life energy in one place. I wouldn't expect anyone to be resurrected again unless it was some long-forgotten ritual or a situation similar to Lazarus's.

As for that Awakened Sunspear Champion in the Istan cavern, I believe it was indicated that he was a troublesome and willful individual when he could hear his orders, doing whatever he could to follow them as poorly as possible while still obeying the letter of the command. That's why they ordered him to guard the cave, and then was left alone except for the Sly coin.

@"Rognik.2579" said:I wouldn't expect anyone to be resurrected again unless it was some long-forgotten ritual or a situation similar to Lazarus's.

Lazarus was never dead. Though the White Mantle liked to glorify Lazarus' return as a resurrection, it was far from such but far more unique. Lazarus had literally split apart his soul and, it seems, his living body and embedded such into people and later objects.

Though resurrection in GW2's time was attempted before, however the means to do so was destroyed in the process of preventing such. Whether or not another Eternal Flame could be produced is... unclear, as we never learn what the Eternal Flame actually is.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Physically speaking, Oglaf said it best:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Mummification is a one-way street, bruv.

What about the opposite and make them Dream?

Corruption and undeath are only analogous, and easing immortality is bad for the plot. But just as a hypothetical: could they cleanse Koss like a Risen chicken then attach him to a benevolent force that would subvert Joko's voice?

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:Corruption and undeath are only analogous, and easing immortality is bad for the plot. But just as a hypothetical: could they cleanse Koss like a Risen chicken then attach him to a benevolent force that would subvert Joko's voice?

I would argue "no". The main reason is that dragon corruption has been treated as something utterly unique compared to all magic a mortal (or "unmortal") is capable of utilizing. Not just the physical transformation of it but the whole rewriting of someone's will.

The Awakened largely seem to remember who they are - some, as shown in ambient dialogue around The Bone Palace, do not, but this is likely Joko's attempt to prevent anyone who received Awakening as a punishment to tell Vabbians (if not also Istani and Kournans) that Awakening is not only given to Joko's chosen ones. Alternatively, the lack of intelligence is due to lesser necromancers in Joko's reign awakening others (such is likely the case with the Awakened Inquest fought in S4 given that Joko required Taimi to activate the machinery, indicating that the Inquest could not give him this information).

Dragon minions, on the other hand, don't seem to always remember who they were. Glint, as a prime example, states during Crystalline Memories (via her memory crystals) "I remember only fragments from the days before the Forgotten performed their ritual on me." Add on the mindlessness of the risen in Siren's Landing, and dragon corruption seems to wipe out past memories - the Elder Dragons know what they knew, and some dragons do show to ensure some of their minions retain this knowledge when it is beneficial (namely Zhaitan and Jormag - Mordremoth if you count "corrupted" sylvari, but I wouldn't due to their unique nature and more unique way of being "corrupted"), but overall, dragon corruption not only removes free will, but removes everything that can one can use to define "the self". Memories, will, seemingly soul, and even the body are all explicably altered.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:Corruption and undeath are only analogous, and easing immortality is bad for the plot. But just as a hypothetical: could they cleanse Koss like a Risen chicken then attach him to a benevolent force that would subvert Joko's voice?

Are you saying non-corrupted constructs only stay intact via continuous influence? All elementals, illusions, etc require some power input to remain whole? Because then Koss is screwed. There are no stronger liches to take control. And the benevolent dragon minions probably have no idea how to corrupt flesh and, even if they could, performing desecrations on top of desecrations seems like bad PR. The commander will just have to explain to young children why he is taking family members away a second time.

And what do you mean by utterly unique?

• Is there a difference between the plant magic the Pale/Tree Sylvari use to shape themselves vs the racial plant magic they use to grow plants vs the Druid's nature magic? Is it impossible for a Druid to exert influence on a Sylvari because they aren't real plants?
• Why must the Sylvari eat but the mindless Risen do not?

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Are you saying non-corrupted constructs only stay intact via continuous influence? All elementals, illusions, etc require some power input to remain whole?

I didn't say anything about the makeup stability of any of those, let alone undead (which I would not call constructs).

Given that Joko's armies survived his imprisonment that left him weakened, it's pretty clear that (most?) Awakened are not limited to this.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:And the benevolent dragon minions probably have no idea how to corrupt flesh and, even if they could, performing desecrations on top of desecrations seems like bad PR.

Glint created Crystal Guardians, Crystal Spiders, and facets. The Pale Tree created sylvari. What envelopes "dragon corruption" is not innately evil things.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:And what do you mean by utterly unique?

• Is there a difference between the plant magic the Pale/Tree Sylvari use to shape themselves vs the racial plant magic they use to grow plants vs the Druid's nature magic? Is it impossible for a Druid to exert influence on a Sylvari because they aren't real plants?
• Why must the Sylvari eat but the mindless Risen do not?

What I mean is that developers like Scott McGoough outright stated that sylvari are unique compared to dragon minions, as an attempt to explain why there's so many massive inconsistencies between sylvari and other dragon minions (especially mordrem), but more specifically, Mordremoth did not corrupt sylvari in the traditional "dragon corruption" way, but rather in the traditional brainwashing Clockwork Orange method.

To your bullet points:

• We don't know much of anything about the druid's magic, unless you're referring to the elite specialization which doesn't have all that much to do with plants (in fact, one can argue the same for the group). So it's impossible to say but druids never showed much of "influencing other species". They do safekeeping, not manipulation.
• One of aforementioned inconsistencies with other dragon minions, done no doubt to sow seeds of doubt to the possible conclusion - ArenaNet went a bit overboard with trying to make it so that people wouldn't guess that sylvari are dragon minions. Dragon minions thrive on magic, but sylvari don't. Sylvari eat meat, etc. for energy, mordrem (and other dragon minions) don't. One argument one could hold is that mordrem/sylvari are the only minions that are, well, living biological beings. But we hit the issue of "mordrem don't function like sylvari in this regard either".

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Are you saying non-corrupted constructs only stay intact via continuous influence? All elementals, illusions, etc require some power input to remain whole?

Perhaps my question wasn't clear enough. By like a Risen Chicken I didn't mean literally using the same ritual. After all the processes are analogous. I meant could an Undead individual be freed of its controller, then rebound in such a manner that it could no longer be unwillingly overtaken.

When you responded no and mentioned permanent transformations I took it to mean that the Awakened will redie when Joko does. Their flesh will deanimate and/or their souls will leave.

All non-risen Undead are magical constructs. They may be closer to golemancy than conjuration, but they are still things being held together via an unnatural process.

Zhaitan's army remained when he died, will Joko's?

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:And the benevolent dragon minions probably have no idea how to corrupt flesh and, even if they could, performing desecrations on top of desecrations seems like bad PR.

It is perceived as evil when it involves the corpses of sentient life. They will avoid any comparison to their family.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:And what do you mean by utterly unique?

• Is there a difference between the plant magic the Pale/Tree Sylvari use to shape themselves vs the racial plant magic they use to grow plants vs the Druid's nature magic? Is it impossible for a Druid to exert influence on a Sylvari because they aren't real plants?
• Why must the Sylvari eat but the mindless Risen do not?

Link? Not questioning you, sounds interesting to read.

To your bullet points:

• We don't know much of anything about the druid's magic, unless you're referring to the elite specialization which doesn't have all that much to do with plants (in fact, one can argue the same for the group). So it's impossible to say but druids never showed much of "influencing other species". They do safekeeping, not manipulation.
• One of aforementioned inconsistencies with other dragon minions, done no doubt to sow seeds of doubt to the possible conclusion - ArenaNet went a bit overboard with trying to make it so that people wouldn't guess that sylvari are dragon minions. Dragon minions thrive on magic, but sylvari don't. Sylvari eat meat, etc. for energy, mordrem (and other dragon minions) don't. One argument one could hold is that mordrem/sylvari are the only minions that are, well, living biological beings. But we hit the issue of "mordrem don't function like sylvari in this regard either".

Sylvari can definitely thrive on magic, that's how they become Mordrem Guard. They, like Aurene, may be excited at the prospect of eating meat, but they only truly grow by absorbing large amounts of magic. Or at least that's what seems to be the case.

Ree's comments feel like lie by omission to perpetuate the mystery. A very different biology + mammalian functions can refer to fish or even Elder Dragons. Snaff implied magic infused everything, why not food/air/water/etc?

Perhaps Mordrem supplant food with magic, and the ones that don't have to are too brainwashed to change. For instance, the Mordrem Vinetooths will probably die before they understand they don't have to hunt exalted to survive.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Perhaps my question wasn't clear enough. By like a Risen Chicken I didn't mean literally using the same ritual. After all the processes are analogous. I meant could an Undead individual be freed of its controller, then rebound in such a manner that it could no longer be unwillingly overtaken.

When you responded no and mentioned permanent transformations I took it to mean that the Awakened will redie when Joko does. Their flesh will deanimate and/or their souls will leave.

All non-risen Undead are magical constructs. They may be closer to golemancy than conjuration, but they are still things being held together via an unnatural process.

Zhaitan's army remained when he died, will Joko's?

Best answer to "can someone else take control" that we have is this: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Verata%27s_Gaze

Will Awakened remain? Most likely. Even simplistic undead remain after their master's death. And Awakened are not shambling abominations.

I would argue that undead are not magical constructs. Especially Awakened. When someone uses the term "magical constructs" they tend to mean a non-biological-body entity that is created and animated via magic. They are magical, but not really a construct.

Furthermore, undead will, more often than not, have souls to them. Awakened seem to for sure.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:It is perceived as evil when it involves the corpses of sentient life. They will avoid any comparison to their family.

By that argument, all minion making among necromancy is evil. But this was common practice in GW1, and even so in GW2. It is not treated as evil. It is treated as disturbing by most species, and sometimes disrespectful too. But not evil.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Link? Not questioning you, sounds interesting to read.

For the "minions are unique - Scott McGough" part: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Lore-Q-A/page/2#post6175329

For the "not really dragon corruption" - all of HoT shows this, particularly Buried Insights' side achievement with the Mordrem Guard, and sylvari's ability to resist "the call".

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Sylvari can definitely thrive on magic, that's how they become Mordrem Guard. They, like Aurene, may be excited at the prospect of eating meat, but they only truly grow by absorbing large amounts of magic. Or at least that's what seems to be the case.

Ree's comments feel like lie by omission to perpetuate the mystery. A very different biology + mammalian functions can refer to fish or even Elder Dragons. Snaff implied magic infused everything, why not food/air/water/etc?

Perhaps Mordrem supplant food with magic, and the ones that don't have to are too brainwashed to change. For instance, the Mordrem Vinetooths will probably die before they understand they don't have to hunt exalted to survive.

They didn't become Mordrem Guard by thriving on magic. They became Mordrem Guard by succumbing to Mordremoth's will. We don't ever see or hear what the Mordrem Guard "thrive on" - the plot of HoT was too short to delve into this (not just in what was covered, but the timespan in which HoT takes place).

Ree's comments aren't lies by omission as they actively contradict what dragon minions do/are. And I think you're taking Snaff's comments too literally - Snaff was theorizing, and I stress that for it is important, that all living creatures can utilize magic via the power of their mind, and that it isn't limited to the high born species (aka even animals can use magic, they just need to think about using magic; this is a pretty clever and indirect way to explain why drakes have such unnatural seeming abilities).

Magic doesn't brainwash. And most mordrem would be like any other dragon minion anyways - vinetooths included - as they are actually corrupted creatures (or born from corruption like destroyers).

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:It is perceived as evil when it involves the corpses of sentient life. They will avoid any comparison to their family.

When people say rectangle they typically mean a quadrilateral with unequal adjacent sides and not a square. It doesn't have any real relevance on whether or not a square is a rectangle. Similarly, Flesh Golems, Carven Effigies, Kurzick Juggernauts, and certain Elementals are constructs despite being undead, biological, or animated without creation.

Necromantic golemancy is fairly new. But golemantic necromancy is extremely old.

For the "minions are unique - Scott McGough" part: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Lore-Q-A/page/2#post6175329For the "not really dragon corruption" - all of HoT shows this, particularly Buried Insights' side achievement with the Mordrem Guard, and sylvari's ability to resist "the call".

This is another square rectangle. Why can't you both just say cleansed corruption behaves differently?

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:Sylvari can definitely thrive on magic, that's how they become Mordrem Guard. They, like Aurene, may be excited at the prospect of eating meat, but they only truly grow by absorbing large amounts of magic. Or at least that's what seems to be the case.

Ree's comments feel like lie by omission to perpetuate the mystery. A very different biology + mammalian functions can refer to fish or even Elder Dragons. Snaff implied magic infused everything, why not food/air/water/etc?

Perhaps Mordrem supplant food with magic, and the ones that don't have to are too brainwashed to change. For instance, the Mordrem Vinetooths will probably die before they understand they don't have to hunt exalted to survive.

When do we see what minions thrive on? Afaik their size and intelligence depends on the amount of magic consumed and it appears no different for the Sylvari.

It can't have all been under there own power. Wardens don't hulk out to defend the homeland.

Ree's comments aren't lies by omission as they actively contradict what dragon minions do/are. And I think you're taking Snaff's comments too literally - Snaff was theorizing, and I stress that for it is important, that all living creatures can utilize magic via the power of their mind, and that it isn't limited to the high born species (aka even animals can use magic, they just need to think about using magic; this is a pretty clever and indirect way to explain why drakes have such unnatural seeming abilities).

As long as the verbs are the same she isn't lying. For instance, Elder dragons also eat/drink, sleep, breathe, and expel waste.

Magic doesn't brainwash. And most mordrem would be like any other dragon minion anyways - vinetooths included - as they are actually corrupted creatures (or born from corruption like destroyers).

Correct. Brainwashing implies the possibility of reversal. Corruption transforms the mind. One can't expect a corrupted animal to have the same urges even if they would be useful to their survival.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:It is perceived as evil when it involves the corpses of sentient life. They will avoid any comparison to their family.

You cannot unmake a fact a corpse got used as a minion, though.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:When people say rectangle they typically mean a quadrilateral with unequal adjacent sides and not a square. It doesn't have any real relevance on whether or not a square is a rectangle. Similarly, Flesh Golems, Carven Effigies, Kurzick Juggernauts, and certain Elementals are constructs despite being undead, biological, or animated without creation.

Necromantic golemancy is fairly new. But golemantic necromancy is extremely old.

Something being "golemantic" is not the same as being "constructs" however.

I would disagree that your example has a relation here. Fully intact corpses - as well as fleshwarped ones - are not constructs. Constructs, by definition, is something that is made from other parts. The Awakened and the Orrian undead are not made from other parts.

IMO, constructs and undead are not a case of "all is one is not all of the other but all of the other is all of the one" (aka your square and rectangle analogy), but rather a venn diagram. One circle are the undead that, like Awakened and Afflicted, are their full, intact bodies. One circle is constructs, like golems and elementals. And the overlap is where you get things like risen abominations, player minion skills (sans Shades), etc.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:This is another square rectangle. Why can't you both just say cleansed corruption behaves differently?

Because Mordremoth did not use "cleansed corruption" and sylvari, while they are cleansed corruption, is not the sole attribute for why they're "unique minions".

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:When do we see what minions thrive on? Afaik their size and intelligence depends on the amount of magic consumed and it appears no different for the Sylvari.

If we're speaking non-sylvari / Mordrem Guard dragon minions in general, then all the time. Every instance that Gorr is involved in the PS (which overall depicts risen and destroyers feeding and even growing stronger with more magic), the Megadestroyer, Season 2 Episode 2 and Episode 3 all show mordrem eating magic in various cases, not to mention the various Blighting Trees in HoT (mainly the Ley-line Collector vines that extend from the trees which must be destroyed to kill the trees off - in other words, Blighting Trees have a very direct lifeline to magic eating).

There are the obvious examples, there are less obvious ones too, for icebrood, branded, etc.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:It can't have all been under there own power. Wardens don't hulk out to defend the homeland.

Nor do Mordrem Guard "hulk out". If you're talking about their changed appearance, ArenaNet actually placed the foundation for this years before HoT. Canach was the first example, where we heard that extreme psycological stress and changes can result in a sylvari's appearance. We see this happen to Caithe too, in the Season 2 flashbacks. As well as Ceara.

The Mordrem Guard is simply a more extreme example of this, where instead of losing/changing hair and facial structure on a small scale, their viney skin becomes hardened bark. Bark is thicker than skin. Their "hulking out" is literally just them adding natrual armor while doing away with facial pointless tissue that makes them all look more or less the exact same.

Why they make epicly large eyebrows on their leaders is anyone's guess though. Especially this guy. Make him crouch and he can roll around on those things like Sonic the Hedgehog.

What's important to note is that the changed appearance isn't a temporary thing. It's permanent. Though if one were to break from Mordremoth's control it's theoretically possible the drastic change in thought would make them shed their bark to a degree.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:As long as the verbs are the same she isn't lying. For instance, Elder dragons also eat/drink, sleep, breathe, and expel waste.

Uhhh, no. That would be the case if they just said "they eat". But they specified what they ate and how they functioned. They specified how sylvari are different from dragon minions just without saying "and that's why they're not dragon minions".

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:Correct. Brainwashing implies the possibility of reversal. Corruption transforms the mind. One can't expect a corrupted animal to have the same urges even if they would be useful to their survival.

"Perhaps Mordrem supplant food with magic, and the ones that don't have to are too brainwashed to change. For instance, the Mordrem Vinetooths will probably die before they understand they don't have to hunt exalted to survive."

You're starting to make zero sense to me here.

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:You cannot unmake a fact a corpse got used as a minion, though.

Joko could fool a layman into venerating a Risen. But even he couldn't easily explain why a loved one came back as a plant or crystal entity. The context is not the same.

Constructs, by definition, is something that is made from other parts.

That would disqualify all elemental constructs. I think you mean in unnatural arrangement. The point I'm trying to make is that flesh rots. Does Undeath freeze gradual decay or is the flesh held together?

not the sole attribute for why they're "unique minions"...

Why didn't Scott just say they were clones? My only guess is he didn't want to spoil the entire story.

He already says:

The invader (for the purposes of this analogy, the weeds and moss) claims the nutrients and resources that would otherwise go to the existing plants, surrounds and envelops the native plants and digests them/converts them into more raw material it can use to grow, and then spreads outward, colonizing as it goes....

He should just extend the explanation. Clones are existing corruption that was forced to take on the shape and approximate physiology of living organisms. They have similar functions but they convert their food/etc into corruption instead of glucose or w/e. Most clones, and corrupted animals, are considered replaceable by their master and aren't instructed on how to meet their own needs beyond the methods that stockpile magic.

Sylvari and Scions are cleansed clones given intelligence. They thrive through internal conversion but could absorb magic if they were taught. The Pale Tree can't impart the knowledge through the dream and doesn't have the time to teach it. And Glint died before she could inform her "children." The Exalted are attempting to rectify the situation with the Scions and not the Sylvari because the clones of Kralkatorrik are more useful to the world than the clones of random humans.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You cannot unmake a fact a corpse got used as a minion, though.Joko could fool a layman into venerating a Risen. But even he couldn't easily explain why a loved one came back as a plant or crystal entity. The context is not the same.

Joko could, because he spent over 150 years brainwashing the nation into thinking it's okay to be undead. Give him 150 years, and he could convince them it's okay that their family is a plant or crystal entity. Heck, people in Vabbi think that Joko invited Kralkatorrik, he wouldn't need 150 years to convince Vabbians that purified branded are okay - his words is law there.

Jennah wouldn't have a chance in hell to convince people that it's okay their family are undead.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Constructs, by definition, is something that is made from other parts.That would disqualify all elemental constructs. I think you mean in unnatural arrangement. The point I'm trying to make is that flesh rots. Does Undeath freeze gradual decay or is the flesh held together?

No... Elementals are chunks. They are not a singular, pre-existing body. They are made out of multiple pieces of a specific element.

And given this place, yes the undead continue to rot.

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:not the sole attribute for why they're "unique minions"...Why didn't Scott just say they were clones? My only guess is he didn't want to spoil the entire story.

The invader (for the purposes of this analogy, the weeds and moss) claims the nutrients and resources that would otherwise go to the existing plants,

surrounds and envelops the native plants and digests them/converts them into more raw material it can use to grow,

and then spreads outward, colonizing as it goes....

Because they're not actually clones? I don't know where that even came from. Aurene and Vlast certainly aren't clones either - what are they clones of?

We did see mordrem clones, and they were always called such. Scott's comment there was about animals that become corrupted, not mordrem born from Blighting Trees. He using that analogy for how Mordremoth corrupts plants (not clones them) and how he corrupted, e.g., the wolves and trolls which show aspects of the original corpse the mordrem corrupted and controls (especially wolves).

Also, this was post-HoT, so there was no story to spoil there.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:You cannot unmake a fact a corpse got used as a minion, though.Joko could fool a layman into venerating a Risen. But even he couldn't easily explain why a loved one came back as a plant or crystal entity. The context is not the same.

For that matter, we see it happen. In the event in Seborhin, when the play is attacked, the first response of the nobles? 'Isn't it magnificent that Joko can command these crystal entities? I had no idea that it was in his power. Truly, there is nothing he cannot do!'

The laypeople of Vabbi would be very ready to believe that Branding is the new Awakening. They might have some second thoughts when their loved ones turn around and kill them, but at that point, what does it matter?