GM's sitting in on private parties?

Dear ArenaNet,

I saw a couple videos posted to the Guild Wars 2 subreddit recently that reveal GM's silently and invisibly "joining" a party, and I'd like to know what this is used for and to what extent.

Examples:6 out of 5 players choose a dungeon path.The Eye of Janthir choosing "GM [name here]" instead of one of the 10 visible players in a raid.

It only makes sense for GMs to sit in on gameplay and observe how players use skills and respond to challenges, and for GMs to review chat logs of players who have been reported to be selling gold, or being abusive, etc. These things make the game better for everyone and, frankly, are expected. After all, it'd be weird for a company to make a game and not observe how it's played, or to receive reports of chat abuse and not look into it. Right? Right. No big deal.

However, I would like to know if - as part of this standard development and review process - GM's have access to (edit: of course they do) regularly access and read players private chats in real-time. I cringe at the thought of a couple playing in a 2-person group, privately typing to one another in the same manner in which they might privately speak to one another - all with a GM reading that discussion word-by-word as it's happening.

Can we get an official comment on this please?

Note: This is NOT about expectation of privacy or freedom of expression or any other such legal mumbo jumbo. We're just playing a PC game here. But I'd like to know: if I'm grouped up with a close friend and they ask, "So, what did the doctor say about your poop sample?" - can I confidently type back a candid response, or should I say, "Um... let's talk about it later."

It seems reasonable to ask for clarification on how this works.

Thank you! :)

Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

I miss read but my answer is still relevant, switch whisper to private chat outside the in game systems. Anything that logs what you type can be read by someone, all games log absolutely everything.Why would you be any more worried about your poop if it is a gm or regular player? Keep it to private whisper or non open chat and any amount of mutual poop speak is an option.

@"ClaraFee.2579" said:"So, what did the doctor say about your poop sample?" - can I confidently type back a candid response, or should I say, "Um... let's talk about it later."

You should assume that your chat might be read.

In general, what protects our privacy (in the common sense of the word, not the legal) is that there are tens or hundreds of thousands of players typing up a storm and only a handful of folks that can monitor. So there's just too much stuff to read and too few people reading (something that is also a problem for the security services of the world). Presumably ANet has some sort of AI that might look for people talking about RMT or hacking, but on the whole, they don't really care about popping in to take a gander at what you might have said in chat.

However, all that goes out the window if your account is brought to ANet's attention for some reason. Did someone report you for vulgar language? Then they might read the logs, including stuff you whispered or said in /party (since some violations happen there and/or it helps to discern a pattern of behavior). Again, this is something that doesn't affect the vast majority of us, so our "protection" is again due to sheer numbers.

You're better off chatting in Discord or Mumble. The companies almost certainly have the power to monitor, but there are even more people involved and fewer available to monitor. So our conversations are even more obscured by the crowds.

So generally speaking, if you want to use to discuss medical test results without anyone likely to have a chance to see or hear, don't do it in game.

They are welcome to read my chats and ghost run my pug dungeon runs. If you are nice and treat other players the way you want to be treated who cares?

Here's an official statement:

'When you communicate within any game or any other communication feature within any of our Sites (e.g. live chat, instant message services and the like), even “privately” to another person, you do so with the understanding that those communications go through our servers, can be monitored by us, you have no expectation of privacy in any of those communications and, accordingly, you expressly consent to monitoring of communications (including technical support and customer service communications) that you send and receive.'

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/arenanet-privacy-policy/

And:

'ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.'

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Good luck.

Nothing is private within GW2 environment. You don't even own your account.

the short answer is keep private chats with friends and loved ones to personal conversations off line and if really private, through encrypted channels or in person. Simply put, anything you say and do over a medium controlled by another entity can be accessed by that third party. Are they actively reading everything in real time? no. Can they pull up that info? Probably.

@Yargesh.4965 said:Why would you be any more worried about your poop if it is a gm or regular player? Keep it to private whisper or non open chat and any amount of mutual poop speak is an option.

Why would a whisper matter? :)

If a message goes through the game server will probably get logged.

I sincerely doubt you'd have much to worry about so long as you're not raising flags/violating rules on the regular.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Yargesh.4965 said:Why would you be any more worried about your poop if it is a gm or regular player? Keep it to private whisper or non open chat and any amount of mutual poop speak is an option.

It'll definitely get logged. That's how one of wintraders got busted. They made the deal using game chat lol.

Well, as an IT support drone I can totally assure you that anything silly you type will be laughed at by the entire krew <3As for the fun of watching users squirm and kitten up: confirmed too!But hey ANet might be different ;)

The GMs at every company (except maybe some really shady online games) have to follow a Code of Conduct (COC), which means they cannot abuse their powers or they would risk getting demoted or fired. This is a normal part of professionalism; and usually means that unless you've done something wrong to be targeted for investigation by a GM, there is little to no chance of them spying on you--assuming the company is reputable.

Of course, keep in mind there are employees who break the rules all the time. It happens in all industries and professions, and usually it is some time before they are caught since people are often afraid to report misbehavior by people who can punish you for it.

I can't speak for ArenaNet on this matter. Only they know the state of their own internal affairs, but they have a pretty good track record.

Note however that I have dealt with corrupt companies before where their GMs were reading all of our chats, and even talking publicly about how they laugh at them on breaks for entertainment--or worse, leaking players' private information to prove some kind of point. The legality of this is ambiguous, in theory an EULA cannot allow a company to do this because it goes against already established laws in many developed countries-they have to have some kind of prerequisite such as expecting the person to be commiting a breach of contract, not just "for funsies"--YMMV.

Also: Keep in mind that merely watching people is not going to be a violation of anything. There is nothing private about gameplay, even in an instance, and if the party is a PUG from the LFG it is probably not considered private either. If players could join, a GM has the right too.

@Faaris.8013 said:Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

That would be some very stupid terrorists if that is the case. Game chats are of the most heavily monitored ways to message other people and companies have absolutely no legal obligation to provide any kind of privacy on their messaging. It would actually be safer to use whatsapp ( although also stupid) as it has some kind of encryption.

@Turin.6921 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

How many succesful terrorist interactions have you experienced to provide such claims?

It's annoying they're pestering harmless players and yet doing exactly nothing about rampant botting and cheating. Go spectate some PvP and then you'll see some shit to be alarmed over.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

What the hell are you talking about?

@Turin.6921 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

I'm asking what are your credentials to make any conclusions or definite summaries of their actions with online games.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:Terrorists use online game chats to communicate because it's safer than WhatsApp or any other chat-tool out there. I really doubt they would do that if the content was easily be revealed ^^

I think Kheldorn was actually meaning to direct that question to Faaris.

Are you claiming that game chats that are always logged and with no encryption are a good place for terrorists to organize?

@Turin.6921 said:Are you claiming that game chats that are always logged and with no encryption are a good place for terrorists to organize?

Stop deflecting. I'm not claiming anything. Yet. I want to hear what is the base for your claims.

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:Are you claiming that game chats that are always logged and with no encryption are a good place for terrorists to organize?

Common sense? When you hide your activity because it is illegal makes more sense to use services that actually hide it than ones that are always monitored and logged.

@Turin.6921 said:

@"Kheldorn.5123" said:

@Turin.6921 said:Are you claiming that game chats that are always logged and with no encryption are a good place for terrorists to organize?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/11/14/why-the-paris-isis-terrorists-used-ps4-to-plan-attacks/#6ebe25e57055

https://www.computerworld.com/article/2486632/cyberwarfare/the-nsa-tracks-world-of-warcraft-and-other-online-games-for-terrorist-clues.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-terrorists-could-use-video-games-to-communicate-undetected/

https://www.dailysabah.com/life/2016/08/08/how-terrorist-groups-use-online-games-to-plot-coups-attacks

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/03/20/terrorists-use-online-games-like-call-duty-to-plot-attacks.html

https://www.newslaundry.com/2015/11/20/how-terrorists-are-taking-video-games-to-the-next-level-and-using-them-to-plan-attacks

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/206571/NSA_looking_for_terrorists_in_online_games_says_new_Snowden_leak.php

It's easy to hide in plain sight, especially using random avatars, than using social media these days. Facebook is monitored constantly, games not so much.

Half of the links you are posting say that games are regularly monitored by agencies even though there is no proof of actual activity within the game but just associated IPs. The articles about CoD are the same and have no sources or actual facts. The belgium thing was not done on a game but the PS network service that does have encryption similar to services like whatsapp. Not actual games.

I think you just read the titles of all these and made your conclusions.

@Turin.6921 said:Half of the links you are posting say that games are regularly monitored by agencies even though there is no proof of actual activity within the game but just associated IPs. The articles about CoD are the same and have no sources or actual facts. The belgium thing was not done on a game but the PS network service that does have encryption similar to services like whatsapp. Not actual games.

I think you just read the titles of all these and made your conclusions.

If you have proof of terrorists not using games as a way to communicate, please show them.