Spectral wall's replacement

So for the sake of having at least 1 heavy CC utility skill other than Spectral Grasp that can be used with reliability, how about we change it so it works similarly to the warrior's "Fear me!"?By that, I mean replace spectral wall by an ability that can AoE Fear opponents for the same amount of time. If that is "OP" despite the fact that it is kind of already a thing, how about 2 seconds no matter the range?

Call it "Spectral Wail" - fear nearby opponents and gain life force for each one.

@"Sephylon.4938" said:Call it "Banshee's Wail" - fear nearby opponents and gain life force for each one.

Um... I mean... I like the idea... but... the warhorn's trait already bears that name xD

@killfil.3472 said:

@"Sephylon.4938" said:Call it "Banshee's Wail" - fear nearby opponents and gain life force for each one.

Right, forgot about that ?.EditSpectral wail to go with spectral armor, grasp, and walk

I dont know the wall does have some benefits that a aoe shout fear would not have.

The biggest one being you cant dodge through it without stability. Its one of the few skills that stops what alot of other skill would normally i frame through.I feel like the best thing it could be turned into is just a circle aoe ground target that way they have the options to stay in it and not get feared, walk out and get feared, soak the fear by resistance or stab to walk in and out.It retains its wall functionality simply changing its shape would make it alot more viable It does not need to be much bigger than say any common well skill etc.

Change the name from "Spectral Wall" to "Haunted Ground" >_>

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I dont know the wall does have some benefits that a aoe shout fear would not have.

The biggest one being you cant dodge through it without stability. Its one of the few skills that stops what alot of other skill would normally i frame through.I feel like the best thing it could be turned into is just a circle aoe ground target that way they have the options to stay in it and not get feared, walk out and get feared, soak the fear by resistance or stab to walk in and out.It retains its wall functionality simply changing its shape would make it alot more viable It does not need to be much bigger than say any common well skill etc.

Change the name from "Spectral Wall" to "Haunted Ground" >_>

So basically a new breed of Wards? Thats actually not a bad idea.

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I dont know the wall does have some benefits that a aoe shout fear would not have.

The biggest one being you cant dodge through it without stability. Its one of the few skills that stops what alot of other skill would normally i frame through.I feel like the best thing it could be turned into is just a circle aoe ground target that way they have the options to stay in it and not get feared, walk out and get feared, soak the fear by resistance or stab to walk in and out.It retains its wall functionality simply changing its shape would make it alot more viable It does not need to be much bigger than say any common well skill etc.

Change the name from "Spectral Wall" to "Haunted Ground" >_>

I like this idea too. The fear will need to fear them back into the circle though if they try crossing without proper stab or resist.

Must have a fast fast time too.

Can already imagine trapping foes in the ring and going Reaper shroud on them.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I dont know the wall does have some benefits that a aoe shout fear would not have.

The biggest one being you cant dodge through it without stability. Its one of the few skills that stops what alot of other skill would normally i frame through.I feel like the best thing it could be turned into is just a circle aoe ground target that way they have the options to stay in it and not get feared, walk out and get feared, soak the fear by resistance or stab to walk in and out.It retains its wall functionality simply changing its shape would make it alot more viable It does not need to be much bigger than say any common well skill etc.

Change the name from "Spectral Wall" to "Haunted Ground" >_>

You can already do this with the current wall:

Last couple fights

A circle would indeed improve the skill alot but would also be problematic in terms of balancing. The skill would AT LEAST have to lose its ground target functionality as otherwise it would be way to easy to trap targets into the ring and burst them afterwards (don't just think about 1v1 but also about team fight synergies at this point!)

It's already a decent skill on point and in large scale WvW. It falls behind in open field PvP where it is easy to avoid and is only good to counter D/D condi thieves and power shiros as these two need to melee you while not having access to stability. The wall interrupting Death Blossom, Dagger Storm and Unrelenting Assault is pretty cool.

Really fucks up weavers, sbs, rangers, necros, and guards too if you pressure them into it or they try to contest a cap

Maybe just add a Chain Skill to it that Detonates your Spectral Wall for an AoE Fear + Life Force Gain per target struck, giving the skill more versatility instead of coverage? Might be a bit easier to balance than making it a Dome.

@TheSwede.9512 said:Maybe just add a Chain Skill to it that Detonates your Spectral Wall for an AoE Fear + Life Force Gain per target struck, giving the skill more versatility instead of coverage? Might be a bit easier to balance than making it a Dome.

I would prefer effect similar to mesmer elite well. Pull plus float, but they would never do that...

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:I dont know the wall does have some benefits that a aoe shout fear would not have.

The biggest one being you cant dodge through it without stability. Its one of the few skills that stops what alot of other skill would normally i frame through.I feel like the best thing it could be turned into is just a circle aoe ground target that way they have the options to stay in it and not get feared, walk out and get feared, soak the fear by resistance or stab to walk in and out.It retains its wall functionality simply changing its shape would make it alot more viable It does not need to be much bigger than say any common well skill etc.

Change the name from "Spectral Wall" to "Haunted Ground" >_>

Now if the wall had another functionality like stopping projectiles it might be ok as is but considering people can often choose not to walk into it its not very good. Usually the only way i get people to walk into it is if they evade into it by mistake (common with sword dagger thief, sword rev, etc.

give it an activate like Temporal Curtain (mesmer focus 4) has or make it apply resistance on top of its current protection to allies.

@KrHome.1920 said:A circle would indeed improve the skill alot but would also be problematic in terms of balancing. The skill would AT LEAST have to lose its ground target functionality as otherwise it would be way to easy to trap targets into the ring and burst them afterwards (don't just think about 1v1 but also about team fight synergies at this point!)

I dont feel this way for a few reasons but i can see where you are coming from.Reason number 1:Even in a team fight Once a person cross from the inside of the ring they likely wont be trapped as the fear causes them to leave it and only braindead people will walk back into the wall again in any case its not really a case of being trapped unlike some skills such as Ele air staff 5 which applies a hard stun for crossing its line. Or guardian hammer which constantly knocks back to the inside of the ring.Reason number 2:Fear is a condition and a control effect and thus it has more counter-play than other control effects such as condition removal, resistance, stability, and break stun.Reason number 3:The skill current is up for discussion because its it lacks use and potential in terms team fight synergies. For every fight that it works wonders there are 4-5 fights where it was totally useless in terms of effectiveness.Reason number 4: Realistically even if its ground target ring or a ring that spawns around the caster most people will walk right through it anyways un harmed. Boon spam is very real in the game right now.

It's already a decent skill on point and in large scale WvW. It falls behind in open field PvP where it is easy to avoid and is only good to counter D/D condi thieves and power shiros as these two need to melee you while not having access to stability. The wall interrupting Death Blossom, Dagger Storm and Unrelenting Assault is pretty cool.

Well a ring would generally be better for all modes regardless of how which mode the skill excels in currently the goal should be to make skills better for all modes of the game. About the only mode a ring would not help in is in pve and honestly nothing changed about this skill in the form of a wall or ring will make it better in pve sadly. But luckily pve has plenty of good strong options already and fear is not as big of a thing for survival in pve like it is in pvp modes.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:A circle would indeed improve the skill alot but would also be problematic in terms of balancing. The skill would AT LEAST have to lose its ground target functionality as otherwise it would be way to easy to trap targets into the ring and burst them afterwards (don't just think about 1v1 but also about team fight synergies at this point!)

I dont feel this way for a few reasons but i can see where you are coming from.Reason number 1:Even in a team fight Once a person cross from the inside of the ring they likely wont be trapped as the fear causes them to leave it and only braindead people will walk back into the wall again in any case its not really a case of being trapped unlike some skills such as Ele air staff 5 which applies a hard stun for crossing its line. Or guardian hammer which constantly knocks back to the inside of the ring.Reason number 2:Fear is a condition and a control effect and thus it has more counter-play than other control effects such as condition removal, resistance, stability, and break stun.Reason number 3:The skill current is up for discussion because its it lacks use and potential in terms team fight synergies. For every fight that it works wonders there are 4-5 fights where it was totally useless in terms of effectiveness.Reason number 4: Realistically even if its ground target ring or a ring that spawns around the caster most people will walk right through it anyways un harmed. Boon spam is very real in the game right now.

It's already a decent skill on point and in large scale WvW. It falls behind in open field PvP where it is easy to avoid and is only good to counter D/D condi thieves and power shiros as these two need to melee you while not having access to stability. The wall interrupting Death Blossom, Dagger Storm and Unrelenting Assault is pretty cool.

Well, if you can keep a good fear uptime with the ring, it would make dread less of a total garbage trait. Might even make it the more optimal choice for pve if it can perma fear bosses.

I would change it to either

A ring and call it spectral cage. The ring would need to be bigger than 240 radius else someone with swiftness would get feared twice from one side to another.

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.

Both of these would be better and more usable than what it is now.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.****!!!!That would be a good idea too crap i never thought about that.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.****!!!!That would be a good idea too crap i never thought about that.

Got the idea from Desmina.The skill would last 6s and only move forward at 100u/s , roughly half of in combat movement speed. It would either fear constantly if possible like it does now but that would be a problem with reaper, or it would fear 1s between 0~200u, 1.5s between 2~400u and 2s 400u+. Spectral mastery would increase the max range by 120u due to duration increase.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would change it to either

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.

I really like that idea! mostly because you wouldn't have to rely on your enemy's action as much as a stationary wall would require

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would change it to either

A ring and call it spectral cage. The ring would need to be bigger than 240 radius else someone with swiftness would get feared twice from one side to another.

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.

Both of these would be better and more usable than what it is now.

Ripple of horror not tied to lich form, yes pls ?

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would change it to either

A ring and call it spectral cage. The ring would need to be bigger than 240 radius else someone with swiftness would get feared twice from one side to another.

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.

Both of these would be better and more usable than what it is now.

Why not! Because then lich form can be turned into just grim spectre, literally the only really good skill imho ( miss the hand that cleared all condi and removed all boons :anguished: , would synergise so well with pretty much every necro spec ), and the actual lich stuff could be used as a theme for a future elite spec/have some functionality added to DS.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:I would change it to either

A ring and call it spectral cage. The ring would need to be bigger than 240 radius else someone with swiftness would get feared twice from one side to another.

A moving field just like tides if time. Slow enough to only fear once naturally or only fear once but the farther it travels the longer the fear up to 2-3s at max range.

Both of these would be better and more usable than what it is now.

Exactly, this would make the skill (both wall and litch) better imo.