Core specs and elite specs

Hi all. Before I start I'll just say that I have both expansions and love all elite specs. Some of them were really well designed and super fun to play.

I would like to ask however that you support the UPDATING of "core" specs that have been absolutely neglected since the first expansion and introduction of elite specializations.

The trend is this; core spec exists.elite spec comes out. Elite spec 100% outshines the core spec.

I have 2 examples. Firstly is engineer. Before, engi could be played for both conditions and power based builds. Then scrapper came out, and had more or a bruiser tank feel to it but still did more up front power damage and kind of resulted in core engi being pushed aside and neglected, not viable.

Then Holosmith comes out. And the power creep just goes even higher. Comparing Holosmith to scrapper, holo does everything but better and shinier and faster and harder. And comparing holo to core engi? See what I mean. It has evolved beyond anything recognizable.

Secondly. Necromancer. This is a polarized class; when reaper was the only elite, it could play both conditions and power builds. But a net intentionally polarized it. Scourge will outshine any other special in the game rivaled only by mirage, and power reaper makes core power necro look like a kid in diapers.

Do they not want us to use core spec at all? It seems builds like core hammer guardian only exist out of "luck" and being lucky enough that a few core traits work really well.

I fell as if core classes could use an overhaul... especially necro and engi!

The problem is, how do you make the core specs better without actually making elites better by proxy, since the elites still have access and use the core trait and utilities. You can't improve core without improving elites

Core traits don't specialise, they either give a slightly wider array of options (since you can use any 3 and aren't locked to one specific tree in one of the trait lines) or they are used to compliment the elite specs.

@Randulf.7614 said:The problem is, how do you make the core specs better without actually making elites better by proxy, since the elites still have access and use the core trait and utilities. You can't improve core without improving elites

Core traits don't specialise, they either give a slightly wider array of options (since you can use any 3 and aren't locked to one specific tree in one of the trait lines) or they are used to compliment the elite specs.

The answer is profession mechanic. Update it. Necro shroud, change it to be more caster like.

Engineer prof mechanic I'm not sure. Perhaps make it so that you have aoe burning or on hit burning when you use a toolbelt skill, that only works with core engineer and not scrapper or holo? This isn't the best fix just off top if my head.. there are probably better. It also sucks that scrapper is totally useless and outshined by holo.

I am well aware that touching trait lines would buff the elite, it'd why I didn't mention it as a solution in the first place.

Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.

Well, core guard is fine as it is i roam with core guard and its sick!:D

I am not sure why you think core specialisations are worse than or underperform against elite specialisations. I run multiple different builds in PvE as a Guardian, one of which is a retaliation-stacking power Guardian using core specialisations only. The damage is incredibly nice.

My suggestion would be to get creative and try experimenting with your core specialisations. You might surprise yourself.

Happy hunting!

There are exceptions... Guardian, Warrior and to some extend Thief, Mesmer and Elementalist all have viable builds in WvW and PvP with their core specs only.

In high end PvE content (Raids and CM fractals) The first two still have meta builds that are somewhat situational (Core Warrior is better than Condition Berserker in fights with quick phases for exemple) but still serve their purpose without being a liability in cases they aren't optimal.

The only core specs that are really outdated these days are Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant and Ranger.

@Jeknar.6184 said:The only core specs that are really outdated these days are Necromancer, Engineer, Revenant and Ranger.

Of course, if you have access to Rev, you have access to an e-spec anyway.

@"kharmin.7683" said:Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.

Its funny though: Anet themselves stated they wanted elite specs to be an alternate way to play a class, not a better, or in some cases the only way(due to nerfs done to core specs, the elite spec being idiotically powerful compared to base or other reasons).

@Randulf.7614 said:The problem is, how do you make the core specs better without actually making elites better by proxy, since the elites still have access and use the core trait and utilities. You can't improve core without improving elites

Core traits don't specialise, they either give a slightly wider array of options (since you can use any 3 and aren't locked to one specific tree in one of the trait lines) or they are used to compliment the elite specs.

Well, Core guardian was better than Dragon Hunter until a few balance patches ago they nerfed the build and buffed DH to outshine the core build. It's intended that core classes are always junk, because they intend people to feel like they need to buy expansions to be viable. Going F2P was one step down that slippery slope.

@LaFurion.3167 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:The problem is, how do you make the core specs better without actually making elites better by proxy, since the elites still have access and use the core trait and utilities. You can't improve core without improving elites

Core traits don't specialise, they either give a slightly wider array of options (since you can use any 3 and aren't locked to one specific tree in one of the trait lines) or they are used to compliment the elite specs.

Engineer prof mechanic I'm not sure. Perhaps make it so that you have aoe burning or on hit burning when you use a toolbelt skill, that only works with core engineer and not scrapper or holo? This isn't the best fix just off top if my head.. there are probably better. It also sucks that scrapper is totally useless and outshined by holo.

Here's a better solution: nerf Photon Forge skills. Reduce holo leap's range from 600 to 100-200, reduce the radius on corona burst from 300 to 200, reduce the radius on holographic shockwave from 600 to 300. Another thing is reducing the invulnerability duration on elixir s from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. It's bad enough that ArenaNet changed invulnerability skills so that they make the user immune to condition damage, but holosmith can use that skill twice (utility skill and passive proc).

If you think that buffing core utility skills or core traits like backpack regenerator will result in buffing the elite specializations, ask yourself this: do you honestly see holosmiths using multiple kits to benefit from that trait, let alone use one kit? No, I don't think so. Holosmiths can't be bothered to learn how to use kits because apparently it's too difficult for them which is why they use elixirs instead. Buff the kits and traits associated with using kits (grenadier, backpack regenerator, etc.) in order to improve core engineer. Holosmith doesn't need to use kits at all both in PvE and PvP modes, so buffing them would mostly, if not entirely benefit core engineer.

@Hoodie.1045 said:Holosmith doesn't need to use kits at all both in PvE and PvP modes, so buffing them would mostly, if not entirely benefit core engineer.

Holosmith PvE meta build actually run Bomb and Grenade kit... The Condition variant also run the Flamethrower kit.

@Dante.1763 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.

Yes, it is funny that a lot of things that ANet said have not worked out the way they said them.

@"kharmin.7683" said:Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.

yet Anet specifically said they are not made for that reason but to add a new prof without actually adding a whole new prof.

@"kharmin.7683" said:Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.Not by stated design. Remember, that devs claimed they were supposed to not be upgrades, but sidegrades, and, instead of being plain better at basic functions, just open more possibilities to the class?

Yeah, i know that it was just a marketing spin and they never really intended to follow with it, which is why they nerfed some core traitlines before HoT in order to make HoT specs plain better at what those original traitlines were supposed to offer. And then repeated that before PoF with core and HoT especs.

@"kharmin.7683" said:Internet dictionary defines elite as: "a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities."

Elite specializations are, by definition and design, superior to core.

It's only "Elite" in that you can only have one selected at a time. It's not meant to be an upgrade or better than the core professions and never was.

Core specs are still strong and in some modes even stronger than the elite options. I think they've done a pretty decent job considering how hard it would be to balance everything. We don't need everything equal, some flavors may prefer some modes, some may not. There's solid core specs for every profession and for some eg THIEF there are non-elite options that are meta. I'd rather new elites be a little bit better than having core spec always better, nothing crazy but enough to spice up the meta each xpac.

At the end of the day, you can buy both xpacs for the price of HALF a normal MMO xpac, support AANET, play the great expansions and never worry again.