Healer/Support + random quesion — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Healer/Support + random quesion

Hi

I'm thinking to give a try to this game...because this WOW expansion is kitten

So...is the Druid only way to play as a healer in this game (Raids/fractals) or are there more options?

Is possible to play as tank in this game?

Finally question... apart of raids and fractals, is there anything else to do at high end?

Thanks

Comments

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭

    Their is stuff like pvp and wvw but high end pve is mostly raids and fractals, their are some world bosses which people considered hard but enough people know what to do now.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

  • Nowaki.2136Nowaki.2136 Member ✭✭
    edited November 26, 2018

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    you are using the lack of support but in reality they both have the same amount of supports (counting tank as a support) on gw2 the supports are usually:
    x2 Chronos (Boons boons boons, a must for every boss fight)
    x2 Healer (they can be cut to x1 on more experienced groups but for pug it will always be 2 healers)
    x1 Banner (a must for every boss fight)

    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, but those fights with aggro mechanics, one of the Chronos takes the role of the tank, hence why you will see people asking for "ChronoTank" meaning you do your boon stuff while also tanking bosses.

  • @Nowaki.2136 said:

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    you are using the lack of support but in reality they both have the same amount of supports (counting tank as a support) on gw2 the supports are usually:
    x2 Chronos (Boons boons boons, a must for every boss fight)
    x2 Healer (they can be cut to x1 on more experienced groups but for pug it will always be 2 healers)
    x1 Banner (a must for every boss fight)

    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, but those fights with aggro mechanics, one of the Chronos takes the role of the tank, hence why you will see people asking for "ChronoTank" meaning you do your boon stuff while also tanking bosses.

    Ohh.. sad :( ! The only way to play as support then in PVE are Druid or Chrono :( the same like 2 years ago...

    Maybe should I go to play FF14

    I don't really like DPSing and this game is very focused on DPS - I can't belive they have forgotten the big part of the people who like to play support roles (healers/tanks)

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Nowaki.2136 said:

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    you are using the lack of support but in reality they both have the same amount of supports (counting tank as a support) on gw2 the supports are usually:
    x2 Chronos (Boons boons boons, a must for every boss fight)
    x2 Healer (they can be cut to x1 on more experienced groups but for pug it will always be 2 healers)
    x1 Banner (a must for every boss fight)

    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, but those fights with aggro mechanics, one of the Chronos takes the role of the tank, hence why you will see people asking for "ChronoTank" meaning you do your boon stuff while also tanking bosses.

    Ohh.. sad :( ! The only way to play as support then in PVE are Druid or Chrono :( the same like 2 years ago...

    Maybe should I go to play FF14

    I don't really like DPSing and this game is very focused on DPS - I can't belive they have forgotten the big part of the people who like to play support roles (healers/tanks)

    When everyone has access to a heal and 2 dodges at a minimum, and all deadly attacks are highly telegraphed, the need for a healer is minimum. Boon support is more important

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sephylon.4938 said:

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Nowaki.2136 said:

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    you are using the lack of support but in reality they both have the same amount of supports (counting tank as a support) on gw2 the supports are usually:
    x2 Chronos (Boons boons boons, a must for every boss fight)
    x2 Healer (they can be cut to x1 on more experienced groups but for pug it will always be 2 healers)
    x1 Banner (a must for every boss fight)

    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, but those fights with aggro mechanics, one of the Chronos takes the role of the tank, hence why you will see people asking for "ChronoTank" meaning you do your boon stuff while also tanking bosses.

    Ohh.. sad :( ! The only way to play as support then in PVE are Druid or Chrono :( the same like 2 years ago...

    Maybe should I go to play FF14

    I don't really like DPSing and this game is very focused on DPS - I can't belive they have forgotten the big part of the people who like to play support roles (healers/tanks)

    When everyone has access to a heal and 2 dodges at a minimum, and all deadly attacks are highly telegraphed, the need for a healer is minimum. Boon support is more important

    This.

    The balance and encounters are closely tied to the basic structure and design of the game.

    In the end there is only so much you can deviate from the combat you envisioned and designed for. This also puts a lot of pressure on the balance and class teams since they have to basically work in a soft trinity into a system which was originally created in opposition to this (and I think we give them way to little credit for their work).

    To sum up:
    In raids and high level fractals you want a fundamental support structure which maximizes you damage and survivability while allowing maximum damage output. That is the base layer, on top of which any further encounter design builds up on in form of special roles and responsibilities.

  • Dedicant.6820Dedicant.6820 Member ✭✭✭

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:
    Ohh.. sad :( ! The only way to play as support then in PVE are Druid or Chrono :( the same like 2 years ago...

    Maybe should I go to play FF14

    I don't really like DPSing and this game is very focused on DPS - I can't belive they have forgotten the big part of the people who like to play support roles (healers/tanks)

    Healer/support variety isn't the best here due to balance and the fundamental design of the game from launch as people have already said, also healers in FF14 from what I know are expected to spend most of their time dpsing and only a little time healing so I'm not sure that either game is exactly what you're looking for. I'm someone who likes healing/support roles and still looking for a game that fits me too.

    I've found most enjoyment as a healer recently in mobas like hots and in overwatch as recent mmos seem to want to do away with trinities in favour of self sufficient dps/hybrids. Still if you're able to find a nice guild or static group of friends in GW2 that are okay with experimenting with fun builds rather than strict adherence to the meta you'll likely be able to try out all the healers Cyninja listed out.

  • @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Nowaki.2136 said:

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    you are using the lack of support but in reality they both have the same amount of supports (counting tank as a support) on gw2 the supports are usually:
    x2 Chronos (Boons boons boons, a must for every boss fight)
    x2 Healer (they can be cut to x1 on more experienced groups but for pug it will always be 2 healers)
    x1 Banner (a must for every boss fight)

    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, but those fights with aggro mechanics, one of the Chronos takes the role of the tank, hence why you will see people asking for "ChronoTank" meaning you do your boon stuff while also tanking bosses.

    Ohh.. sad :( ! The only way to play as support then in PVE are Druid or Chrono :( the same like 2 years ago...

    Maybe should I go to play FF14

    I don't really like DPSing and this game is very focused on DPS - I can't belive they have forgotten the big part of the people who like to play support roles (healers/tanks)

    As an ex player of ffxiv i dont really get your "this game is very focused on DPS" since thats the whole point in ffxiv, as a former healer there you spent 10% time healing (only when big mechanics happens) and 90% time DPSing, if anything supports dps dont matter as much in most fights in gw2, on ffxiv both good healers dps was equal to a dps, so if a healer didnt dps the raid just slowed down, tanking was all about maximing dps up time too since they were just Dps with some utility able to do 80% of the dps of a proper DPS.... on Gw2 on most fights if you combine x4 supports (chrono and druid) dps you will not even reach the banner dps (with some fights exeptions AKA MO).... if you want non dps supports gw2 is more for you, if you want a game that doesnt focus on dps at all i have no clue what game you should play since every MMO follows the same logic, the more damage you do - the faster you kill - dead enemies deal no damage - kill them faster so they damage you less.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Look, if you actually critically look at builds and whats possible, you dont have to use chronos or druids to heal/tank. I mean, there is a point where it gets silly but its workable.

    For example, if you want to tank with say, a guardian, you can run a dedicated boon-support build to achieve similar output of a chrono (ie permanent quickness, some might, fury, regen, swiftness, protection, retaliation, with better stability and aegis than a chrono). Mind you, not every class can provide these boons but firebrand-guardians are the closest to being able to provide what chronos bring.

    If you to go this route, you have think about what the group needs and what you will lack. Firebrands cant give alacrity so you'll need someone to make up for this, likely a renegade since they can provide it permanently to 10 players.

    Chrono and druid is the theoretical best right now. There's no real arguing it. But that doesn't mean its exactly necessary. Will you have to actually do some mechanics? Possibly. Will you have to stack better due to how boons are provided from the firebrand? definitely. But that doesn't mean it can't be done to similar degrees of effectiveness to chrono/druid comps. I'm not disagreeing with what other people in this thread have said, to be clear.

    Personally, i run my daily fractals with firebrand-renegade due to the higher uptimes of stability and aegis as well as higher healing compared to chrono/druid comps. We lack boonstrip but we compensate with either a spellbreaker or necro depending on whos online.

    Play based on your own preference. Make your own groups with what you want. It is entirely viable and a lot closer to optimal than people think.

  • In my opinion, the only place in gw2 with use for a real healer at the moment is WvW zerging.
    Especially in guild-setups there is usually room for heal-scrappers and ventari-herolds.
    And of course, the support-firebrand which is in every zerg group.
    Druids and Heal-elementalists are not very needed there at the moment.
    For Group-Roaming and PvP healers are also often welcome. They go a bit more offensive then, though.
    Of course, if I go with a heal-scrapper on a roaming-tour and someone attacks me, we usually stop fighting after 10 minutes of no progress... on solo-roaming and 1vs1 PvP it's not useful at all...

    And PvE except raids is basically too easy. Even in T4-Fractals rnd-groups with enough DPS decide to ignore mechanics and power through. In my opinion, most of the Raid difficulty comes from enrage-timers and one-hit-death mechanics. This causes both, a need for near max DPS (direct and indirectly via offensive boons), and less use for a dedicated healer.

    So, if you like to play dedicated healers, then you should probably look for a WvW-guild with zerg size around 25 players.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    What do you play in gw1?
    I did protect monk, rit, ele, para/mo in HA
    In gw2, Druid is fun if you like support. You don't have to be a physical tank role as druid but basically as a druid you are quite tanky overall. If you don't get into playing it.. no one can make you 😅
    no matter how we say what is good and not.. you have to try it out and spend a bit more time to work your way in.

    Druid as healer support is for meta.. but non meta.. you are free to make any build you like.. with many many different traits.. many diff stats for different professions. Pros and cons.. to your play style. As for a pure dps .. meta is easier to go.

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    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • @Nowaki.2136 said:
    you will never get a party as an scrapper heal, scourage is good for being extra super safe, AKA for new content while figuring mechanics, after that just dont.... Druid is just the superior healer cuz of its boons and utility (spirits/spotter) that no other class can provide, is not that the other classes are bad, is just that they bring nothing other than heals, while druid brings heals AND a lot of more stuff.

    This is generally true for pug runs, since pugs are braindead challenged. For any static, who run 2 healers" there is very little reason to run 2 druids over 1 druid + other healer. The reason is that druid by a long shot is the absolut worst healer in the game, you run 1 for boons/spotter/spirits. But there is zero reason to run nr. 2. So if your group run 2 healers, then its 99% of the time better to take a FB, necr, tempest etc. They all bring more healing then druid, and also bring other (lesser) buffs. Pugs nearly always bring 2 druids, but thats just becouse they assume atleast 1 of them only will press 1 and not buff, so they need the safety of having a second druid to buff.

  • Kam.4092Kam.4092 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2018

    Make a Guardian, and get ready for great builds in all game modes. Join the holy brotherhood of blue shields. We can use your help.

  • Einsof.1457Einsof.1457 Member ✭✭✭

    @lagrimabendita.8763 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Current healers run in some form or another:

    Druid (ranger) - main go-to healer due to its vast utility, low actual heal throughput
    Tempest (elementalist) - very high heal output, less utility compared to druid
    Scourge (necromancer) - amazing second healer, low healing but very high amount of barrier (think priest shields from WoW)
    Scrapper (engineer) - again very high heal output, good utility but near no boon support. decent second healer but very rare
    Firebrand (guardian) - great healing, great boon support. Why isn't it run? Because Druid+Chrono outperform it and chrono is the go-to tank
    Herald (revenant) - great boons, good heal. Same situation as Firebrand, chrono+druid is stronger
    Renegade (revenant) - see Herald but different boons basically

    Firebrand and Herald are slowly finding their way into the meta and people are mixing it up. Main reason for not running them, everybody is used to the old meta which remains viable and requires less adjusting the other raid slots. Just to be clear, unless you intend to have people run custom setups with you, expect only druid, scourge, tempest and firebrand to find general acceptance and among those most will ask for druid 80% of the time.

    Tanks are not existent in this game in the way you know or understand. There is some tanking mechanics and almost all of them are limited to raids. Currently chrono is the go-to tank for almost all content, but other tanks can and have cleared the content.

    If you are asking about challenging content, then no, fractals and raids is all there is. If you are asking about stuff to do, much is tied to achievements, cosmetics, personal goals.

    Is it possible to find a group as a Scrapper support (pve -raids/fractals) and also how good are the Scourge (pve -raids/fractals)???

    To be honest I am between FF14 and GW2... I guess FF14 has more hard content than GW2 and better class design... but as a big fan of GW1 I would like to give a try (Again) to this game...but allways the lack of hard content and the lack of "support" classes killed me (I used to be Monk and Ritualit in GW1)

    I switched from ffxiv October 2017 after three years. Gw2 is better in every way.

  • Any class can be a healer. Some do it better than others and provide different supporting options. kitten if you wanted to make a shout heal warrior you can. Not the best but you can.

  • messiah.1908messiah.1908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    renegade /herald will take chrono place in the meta i guess

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2018
    • Harrier FB if you can pass over alacrity, it allows 4 DPS setup (3DPS + PS? war/spb ) it's quite a good deal : perma quickness, stab, aegis that is just OP against half the encounters, better heals and regen than druid, even better DPS, and a lot of other things. It's a good package for fractals, the best R healing/boonshare. It is a safer option than chrono(*1)+4DPS setup, perfect for PUG.
    • Harrier Renegade + Viper FB DPS/support : perma alacrity, perma quickness, strong heal and condi cleanse, some powerbuff with +150ferocity, Soulcleave's summit, and aegis, stab, projectile hate, good amount of CC ...
      It is the best alternative to chrono+druid

    • Chrono+Druid ; but after nerfs it's clear Anet want do slowly push out of meta these HoT classes.

    • Minstrel/harrier chrono(*1) which imo, in 5 man group, is far better than "DPS/support" chrono who doesn't reach 6k (add a harrier druid, ......... 2 slots, zero DPS, to support 3 others ......)

    It's time people realise Chrono + druid is over. Not it's not viable, but that there can be more effective and safer compo.
    Because YES, it is a hard rotation for chrono to maintain Quickness and Alacrity. I didn't try myself but without the Mistlock Singularity pre-buff I'm pretty sure you can't give perma uptime of both boons even with mimic; by and large this was the case of groups I joined these days.

    For second heal/support in 10 man group

    • Scourge; just the best rezzing machine of the game, 25 mights, barriers, boon strip...
    • Tempest auramancer : can heal at a large range, condi cleanse, some boons.
    • Scrapper, good healing, but I'm not sure there is some boon share ?
    • Herald , better healing than renegade but ... less alacrity, less powerbuff.
  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    I see a lot of flak towards Druids recently. I guess mostly by other classes that wish to take Druid's place for some reason.
    Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed, in Fractals at least. Changed to vipers, but kept my spirits and 10% glyph. Party was going splat all over the place, screaming in agony "Moar healing!"
    I understand that some players think they can do without a healer, but I have yet to meet that party. And please, don't link some tight group's youtube heavily edited video.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    I see a lot of flak towards Druids recently. I guess mostly by other classes that wish to take Druid's place for some reason.
    Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed, in Fractals at least. Changed to vipers, but kept my spirits and 10% glyph. Party was going splat all over the place, screaming in agony "Moar healing!"
    I understand that some players think they can do without a healer, but I have yet to meet that party. And please, don't link some tight group's youtube heavily edited video.

    Since the addition of pure healers and the support meta players are less individually mechanically skilled at the game in general due to being so used to the crutch.

  • Veluna.7316Veluna.7316 Member ✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    Since the addition of pure healers and the support meta players are less individually mechanically skilled at the game in general due to being so used to the crutch.

    When you a dedicated role who's very job is to provide sustain to people it means other roles can further specialize. If that becomes the norm and everyone sees we need to specialize in damage because we have dedicated support/healing.

    Why run some partial survival on this character such as getting vitality and toughness when someone is giving me aegis?
    Why run my own healing when someone else can heal more than me and more often?
    Why remove my own conditions when someone else can apply it more frequently?

    Without the specialization it means every character needs to actually bring their own survival to account for reducing damage, healing it back, and removing conditions. Not a lot of stuff is built for that.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    I see a lot of flak towards Druids recently. I guess mostly by other classes that wish to take Druid's place for some reason.
    Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed, in Fractals at least. Changed to vipers, but kept my spirits and 10% glyph. Party was going splat all over the place, screaming in agony "Moar healing!"
    I understand that some players think they can do without a healer, but I have yet to meet that party. And please, don't link some tight group's youtube heavily edited video.

    You have this backwards. Pure healers have begun to allow players to drop their skill level and still succeed in completing the content.

    Druids falling out of favor has nothing to do with not wanting a healer but rather with Firebrand or Renegade being better at supporting if not paired with a chrono (and even in these cases FB can outperform druid). Druid or rather ranger as such becomes valuable for their spirits, which can be provided by a Soulbeast.

    Druid's have been weak healers for a while already (sufficient enough for all content) and where taken due to their massive utility and great synergy with chrono and unique benefits (spirits, spotter, etc.). Chrono falling out of favor makes druid less required.

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You have this backwards.

    I was talking about some people thinking they can do without a healer. Don't just re-post the same old stuff about why a Druid is taken (spirits, spotter, etc).
    And by some people, I mean most of them.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You have this backwards.

    I was talking about some people thinking they can do without a healer. Don't just re-post the same old stuff about why a Druid is taken (spirits, spotter, etc).
    And by some people, I mean most of them.

    You said druids. At no point in your comment did you mention healers even 1nce. As such I assumed you were talking specifically about druids, though what I said applies to all healers.

    The same old stuff remains valid because it IS the reason why druids were taken and are taken over way more powerful healer builds on other classes (which again is relevant to a pure healing output discussion).

    No one on these forums is a mind reader. Either be clearer or expect people to respond to what you wrote.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 25, 2018

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    I see a lot of flak towards Druids recently. I guess mostly by other classes that wish to take Druid's place for some reason.
    Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed, in Fractals at least. Changed to vipers, but kept my spirits and 10% glyph. Party was going splat all over the place, screaming in agony "Moar healing!"
    I understand that some players think they can do without a healer, but I have yet to meet that party. And please, don't link some tight group's youtube heavily edited video.

    I don't agree with the "no healer needed", the issue is not to play without healer, but with a better distribution of roles and needs.
    It's a balance ; there is a lot of fights you can end with a very strong burst with stab+aegis (chrono chaos/inspi) before bosses mechanics, like Weaver or axe Soulbeast; but if your DPS are quite average or you play with less DPS members ...hmmm... obviously you're going to get hit and you'll need healing.
    Problem with Healer druid (+ support chrono), in fractals, imo ; no DPS, no constant/strong heal, 2 classes to support (when they're not semi-afk) 2 DPS and a War, it's a clumsy division; while the chrono (or FB?) can also play this role of healer too.
    If your chrono is commander/zerk; keep your healer; if he's harrier/minstrel, a second healer or support is a burden.

    Edit: This is also true people are less and less attentive to mechanics, dodges, aoe etc, claiming "DPS loss" or "Not my role".
    Like this is also true some chrono and druid, and war, are just trash that can't provide these unique buffs or mights, quickness,...

  • Deepcuts.9740Deepcuts.9740 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You said druids. At no point in your comment did you mention healers even 1nce. As such I assumed you were talking specifically about druids, though what I said applies to all healers.

    I said: "Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed"
    Try again.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2018

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You said druids. At no point in your comment did you mention healers even 1nce. As such I assumed you were talking specifically about druids, though what I said applies to all healers.

    I said: "Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed"
    Try again.

    Let's see:

    @Deepcuts.9740 said:
    I see a lot of flak towards Druids recently. I guess mostly by other classes that wish to take Druid's place for some reason.
    Tried to test this theory that a healer is not needed, in Fractals at least. Changed to vipers, but kept my spirits and 10% glyph. Party was going splat all over the place, screaming in agony "Moar healing!"
    I understand that some players think they can do without a healer, but I have yet to meet that party. And please, don't link some tight group's youtube heavily edited video.

    You start with mentioning druid twice, then you get into an entire argument how you specifically tried to make druid work as viper build (which it does with good enough players) and only then mention healers only.

    Excuse me, but this can very easily be misunderstood. Had you started off with talking about healers and then went more narrow and specific about druids and how it does not work for them, this would have been clear. Instead you made specific comments about druids and only at the end mention 1 time how people require healing.

    It was unclear. That said, my remarks about healers in general still remain valid and answered your complaint.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You have this backwards. Pure healers have begun to allow players to drop their skill level and still succeed in completing the content.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭

    heal's like scrapper heal, scourage heal always welcome in fractals, cm+t4. Also now very ofen welcome fb heal, and others.
    People just need read notes in lfg and understand diference between "dps, druid" adn "dps, heal". Use second if you not dudu. If heal skilled he welcome.
    As for me now top heal is firebrand (ofc in top hands). I like it more then do top fractal content.

    renegade /herald now replace new meta ?

    • no, but that is working setup too nowadays.

    Scrapper, good healing, but I'm not sure there is some boon share ? - Protection ? )

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