Spoilers: Foreshadow of next season?? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Spoilers: Foreshadow of next season??

Rubedo.8769Rubedo.8769 Member ✭✭

Haven’t seen anyone else mention it yet but did anyone pick up on what Kralk said at the end of the fight?

“Mother”

Could this be foreshadowing something? Could there be a Mother of Elder Dragons? What could this mean as far as story?

Comments

  • Jokubas.4265Jokubas.4265 Member ✭✭✭

    It seems to imply one of two things. The Elder Dragons may not have been the first to hold the powers that they wield after all, since they had parents and were probably normal creatures at one point.

    So either the Elder Dragons inherited their power, or it was never theirs to begin with.

    I don't remember if there's any of that we already knew or was implied, but that seems to open up possibilities of how to deal with the Dragons, or what else might be out there.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Given the drastic difference in appearances between the Elder Dragons, I doubt there's some singular "mother of Elder Dragons" out there. Rather, I think that this is implying that Kralkatorrik was not always an Elder Dragon, and had succeeded someone before him. My initial theory / thought process being that Kralkatorrik was once a Glint to the previous Elder Crystal Dragon - that his mother was Elder Dragon before him and went insane and he killed and usurped her.

    Gives rise to the theory of the Elder Dragons having gone insane from too much magic - as does the whole of Kralkatorrik's Torment.

    What I found curious is that the inside of Kralkatorrik was practically another dimension in appearance. I wonder if we ended up actually going to The All's crystal domain and wasn't actually inside Kralkatorrik.

    Perhaps the Elder Dragons are all born from this "Mother" but at some point they became driven mad by all the magic they cosnumed thus resulting in them killing their "Mother" which they all cared deeply about but due to their madness they had no control of their reasoning.

    There is a saying I have being "The first victim of the monster called Madness is the form it takes and only in death will the first victim be free."

    It would explain why Kralk greatly wish for Aurene to never have to experience the pain of killing someone she deeply cares about in her life.

    However, from what also Kralk said it seem Aurene is the first of Dragons that can handle this much magic without falling into the Madness that drives all Elder Dragons.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    The All being a pseudo mother of all dragons wouldn't be too farfetched.

    The vision of the Pale Tree in Omadd's Machine isn't wholely seen as the actual Pale Tree (or to be more precise, Pale "Mother"). The Pale Tree doesn't even know why she would be part of that vision so the tree might be more representative of The All at being the tree/mother and the Elder Dragons as creatures born from this tree the same way the Sylvari are born from a single tree and each Dragon is shown to have its appearance based on the Sphere of Influence they are given by The All. And the other races (outside of the Humans) are also born from this "World Tree" and the Elder Dragons are the first of the creatures to be born (so the Elders are like the Firstborn Sylvaris and the other races are secondborn onward)

    Just a theory though, not an actual fact.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    its easy, now shes a elder dragon, probably some group/whatsover will become with a weird argument to kill her. So next season is about to protect Ed Aurene. The problem of this narrative is the one of always: why the hell an elder dragon the supreme in power, will need protection?

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    its easy, now shes a elder dragon, probably some group/whatsover will become with a weird argument to kill her. So next season is about to protect Ed Aurene. The problem of this narrative is the one of always: why the hell an elder dragon the supreme in power, will need protection?

    Uh, we killed three already? But yeah, I could see this being a good opportunity for an antagonist PC analog.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think season 5 will be more feature focused and shorter (real time).

    We wont get a new map each episode, so i think a new story every 2 months isnt farfetched.

    I also think that this season wont focus on an Elder Dragon Plot but is more finishing older stories.

    At the end, we see aurene again with the next ex pack.

    The discription of the Gen 2 GS also talks about a new technolegy, probably hinting at new features to come.

  • Dschromm.2946Dschromm.2946 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    Well, keeping in mind that the elder dragons are up to consume/destroy tyria, maybe the mother of dragons may be a pyromanic maniac from westeros called khaleesi aka daenerys Targaryen...

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    I remember Kralk said to Aurene something among the lines "I hope you'll never have to kill someone dear" then at his death he mentioned the word "mother" All I could take from this is that kralk's mother was the previous crystal elder dragon, and, for reasons unkown, Kralk killed her, either by madness or because circumstances forced him to do it, and then he himself became the next crystal elder dragon. This certainly hold some familiar pattern with how the gods usually pass on their godhood: by having someone take it from them, usually by killing them and usurping their power.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    What if the person he loved who he killed was just Glint? I mean she was his daughter.. Given what we know now, he's understandably upset. I took the mother line more as him returning to this mother figure now that he's dead. Like maybe she's in the mists somewhere?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    The All being a pseudo mother of all dragons wouldn't be too farfetched.

    At this point it kind of would. Since The All isn't a living thing, it's a system of multiple things.

    The vision of the Pale Tree in Omadd's Machine isn't wholely seen as the actual Pale Tree (or to be more precise, Pale "Mother"). The Pale Tree doesn't even know why she would be part of that vision so the tree might be more representative of The All at being the tree/mother and the Elder Dragons as creatures born from this tree the same way the Sylvari are born from a single tree and each Dragon is shown to have its appearance based on the Sphere of Influence they are given by The All. And the other races (outside of the Humans) are also born from this "World Tree" and the Elder Dragons are the first of the creatures to be born (so the Elders are like the Firstborn Sylvaris and the other races are secondborn onward)

    The Pale Tree is not part of The All in the vision from Omadd's Machine. There is no tree in The All. She's a barrier / passageway the mind uses to witness The All. Our vision followed the same path of what Scarlet Briar saw, and as sylvari she used her connection to the Pale Tree to follow it to Mordremoth which led her to The All. She's connected to it through Mordremoth and she kitten well knows this (she said otherwise because the connection was still a hush hush secret).

    All these squares make a circle.
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  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    Well Skyscales are the first native dragons to tyria, its stated that they came into being when kralk fell through the mists? So does that mean the elder dragons might not be natives, rather beings from the mists such as the gods? This could imply that there might be more even on tyria than we realize, we have encountered the ones we know for sure yea? But it could be there are others elsewhere in the world perhaps even one who reigns them all in and maybe that is where Aurene went to meet up with the "Mother" so to speak?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    All these squares make a circle.
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    All these squares make a circle.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    Gorrik says that the SkyScales are ageing rapidly fast because they were created as adults but new hatched Skyscales do not.

    I remember him or aurene saying that they needed to be battle ready from the get go.
    And this effected thier ageing.

    They are 100% new creations.

    Created to fight kralk.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I never said they weren't new creations (I in fact stated that they were!). I said they're not the first native dragons to Tyria.

    All these squares make a circle.
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    All these squares make a circle.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    If there is a MOAD, I wonder if it will be called Thyria?

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    The more I learn about the elder dragons, and the more the Pale Tree mentions "The Soul of Tyria", the more it sounds less of an abstract concept and that Tyria itself has an actual soul. As if it is, or at least once was, a living entity.
    Tyria itself could be something akin to an elder dragon.

    In the Eternal Alchemy simulations and Omadd's machine, we can see a central white orb. This likely represents Tyria. But it's all the magic in Tyria and within its living beings, or the actual Tyria itself?
    If one takes a better look, it isn't actually not 1 orb. But two. A bright central orb inside a translucent orb, with many small lights fluttering over the surface of the larger orb. The smaller orb inside is at least as large as the dragon orbs.

    If you look at leylines and the leyline system, they are practically like blood vessels. And we know that dragons eat magic. It would not be strange for such a magical creature to have magic as blood.

    All elder dragons appear to be of elemental nature. Primordus was indistinguishable from rock when asura scanned him while dormant, Kralkatorrik appears to be almost completely made out of metallick and crystals, Zhaitan was completely rotten and appeared to have been replacing part of his body with the corpses of risen dragons, the Mouth of Mordremoth looked wooden, and was wrapped in vines.
    What if they weren't always like that, and they were instead corrupted by that magic? The more they absorbed magic, the larger they grew and the more their bodies changed into the elements of the magic they absorbed.
    It would not be impossible for an even larger dragon to consume so much magic that they turned into magic-infused rock like leystone themselves.

    It also seems that dragons can may offspring that won't look quite like them. Aurene, Vlast, Glint and Kralkatorrik may have had the same fundamental body plan and similar features, but they were way more different from each other than animals like humans.

    If you put all of these assumptions together, Tyria could be or have been once an extremely large entity that somehow became the planet, or the foundation for the planet and its leyline system, or that is laying dead or dormant in the core of the planet, and that could be the 'Mother' of all the elder dragons.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Well Skyscales are the first native dragons to tyria, its stated that they came into being when kralk fell through the mists? So does that mean the elder dragons might not be natives, rather beings from the mists such as the gods? This could imply that there might be more even on tyria than we realize, we have encountered the ones we know for sure yea? But it could be there are others elsewhere in the world perhaps even one who reigns them all in and maybe that is where Aurene went to meet up with the "Mother" so to speak?

    You may have misheard. I recall the opposite: Gorrik saying they were not native to Tyria, and Aurene saying that they are 'new'. So they were likely made, brought from somewhere in the mists or pulled from the memories of similar dragons in the mists by Aurene with her growing powers.
    The same way she was able to 'brand' the ground like Kralkatorrik does, she may have also become able to create new creatures. Primordus is the most notable creature maker, as practically all of his Destroyers were made rather than corrupted, but Kralkatorrik was also shown making creatures rather than corrupting them like the Wrathbringer and the Shatterer.

    Skyscales may not have crystal bits like Aurene and Glint, but let's not forget that Glint looked more crystalline than Aurene, and the Skyscale are not her children, but her creation. So it should not be hard for her to make them without the crystal bits, using only fleshy parts from drakes, wyverns and herself as reference. Glint also created many crystal elementals. So Aurene should be able to do something similar, making them completely fleshy rather than completely crystal.

    And so skyscales would be distant relatives to lesser dragons like wyverns and drakes, but not through evolution, but through origin.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    There's definitely true dragons in Tyria.

    GW1 counted as 'dragon' many draconic creatures that are not true dragons like drakes.
    Kirin appear to have draconic features, but do not seem to be considered draconic by Dragonslaying upgrades.
    There's also nian, who appear to be lion-shaped draconic creatures, but there's no way to test what they are since we can't damage them with anything but fireworks and that kills them instantly.
    But Saltspray dragons like Kuunavang could speak before the Jade Wind drove them mad, which means they were likely true dragons. This also tells us that dragons do not necessarily have to have 4 legs and wings to be true dragons, and that the miniature mystic dragon could be a miniature of an actual type of dragon, not just a toy from someone's imagination.

    In GW2, drakes, bats, wyverns and hydras have draconic features, but are not considered true dragons. At most one could say that they are lesser dragons.

    Risen dragons like Tequatl do not have any signs of being stitched together like abominations, which means there had to be an original dragon to become risen.
    And bone dragons from GW1 may be much smaller, but they could only have existed if there was dragons before, and they appear to be quite intelligent too since there was Dragon Liches. One doesn't become a lich without being a powerful and intelligent magic user in life.

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭

    Why should Krakatorrik's Mother be the Mother of other elder dragons? it could just be his Mother.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Pale Tree is not part of The All in the vision from Omadd's Machine. There is no tree in The All. She's a barrier / passageway the mind uses to witness The All. Our vision followed the same path of what Scarlet Briar saw, and as sylvari she used her connection to the Pale Tree to follow it to Mordremoth which led her to The All. She's connected to it through Mordremoth and she kitten well knows this (she said otherwise because the connection was still a hush hush secret).

    I think you're taking this into a literal sense and going by what Ogden says, trying defineThe All only makes it less understandable so I'm going more speculative of what each part represents than actually define the Pale Tree vision as a barrier. And from what Scarlet recorded in her lab at Dry Top, your statement of it being a barrier contradicts the note in Scarlet's lab which states:

    This hand-drawn image is more symbolic than literal. It shows the world as a machine with various moving parts. The Pale Tree sits at its heart

    The Pale Tree sits at its heart (the centre of The All as we see it). Why would it? If The Pale Tree itself doesn't know why it would even be a part of the vision then another point to take might be that The Tree seen during the vision may be more akin to a World Tree like scenario and potentially that World Tree itself would have an avatar similar to the Pale Tree itself. And it wouldn't be too far fetched considering part of GW lore takes inspiration from Nordic Mythology (Jormag's name alone already shows that as he's basically Jormugandr).

    Again, all speculations on my end. The only truth that we got out of Omadd's Machine at this current moment is that if more than 2 spheres of influence are destroyed, it will destroy Tyria itself. If we didn't have Aurene when we destroyed Kralkatorrik, we may have just destroyed Tyria at that point.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2019

    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    All these squares make a circle.
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  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    You know, i think those giant skeletons in Elona (like at the entrance of Desert Highlands) are just the remains of some really oversized Sand Sharks, rather than being the remains of dragons. They don't seem to have any paws or wings after all. But i could be wrong.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I don't think the skyscales are the "first native dragons". Unless such is said in the collection to get a skyscale, they only said the skyscales were a new species.

    We still have all those Bone Dragons and other gargantuan draconian bones scattered across Tyria/Elona of no real origin, as well as Canthan dragons (Saltspray Dragons (similar to wyverns) and Rockhide Dragons (similar to drakes). Not only that, but the dialogue calls wyverns and drakes as "lesser dragons" iirc.

    You know, i think those giant skeletons in Elona (like at the entrance of Desert Highlands) are just the remains of some really oversized Sand Sharks, rather than being the remains of dragons. They don't seem to have any paws or wings after all. But i could be wrong.

    Depends on which ones you're talking about. We had two skull styles in GW1, but I think GW2 has three now. One of the three, often seen in the Crystal Oasis and Elon Riverlands, are leviathan skeletons. But other skulls, found in Desert Highlands and The Desolation (as well as Bitterfrost Frontier and Auric Basin) are unknown. One's a tusked version while the other is more serpentine, matching GW1's skulls, iirc.

    All these squares make a circle.
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  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

    Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

  • Rubedo.8769Rubedo.8769 Member ✭✭

    After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

    But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

    Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

  • The mother of dragons is coming...

  • Riah.4816Riah.4816 Member ✭✭

    Obviously Kralk is talking about Daenerys Targaryen

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

    Maybe we should call Kraalkatorik "Amethyst WEAPON"? Or Ruby I guess, since he lived in the desert.

  • Narcemus.1348Narcemus.1348 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

    But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

    Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

    I was having a similar thought, only what if the Elder Dragon spheres were locks holding something imprisoned within Tyria. Which is why with sufficient elder dragons being taken out the world cracks and releases what is inside. I know it's a longshot, but an interesting thought.

  • Rubedo.8769Rubedo.8769 Member ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2019

    @Narcemus.1348 said:

    @Rubedo.8769 said:
    After thinking on this for a while more, I'm inclined to agree that perhaps the "Mother" that Kralk was talking to was in fact Tyria itself. It would make sense. The dragons all represent a force of nature on Tyria. With the new "humanizing" concept that we saw with Kralk at the end, I'm leaning more towards perhaps Tyria is a sentient being, to an extent, that perhaps is dormant, and been dormant for millenia. Perhaps before it went dormant it created the Elder Dragons to watch over the various natural aspects of that world, Fire, Ice, Water, Crystal, Life, etc...

    But after so long such power begins to overwhelm and corrupt them. Perhaps they were never meant to hold this power for so long. What I'm suggesting is perhaps Tyria was supposed to "wake up" at some point and never did, forcing the ED's to hold this power even longer than they were ever meant to. Add to that the constant misuse of the various elements by the mortal races, such as waging war, over reliance on magics, etc.. has driven the ED's insane to some extent as they tried to hold it all in check and balance. So eventually they all just kind of went insane and now are turning on their creator.

    Perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said that he hope Aurene never has to kill one she loves. Perhaps he was speaking of killing Tyria, who could be his "Mother" who he loved originally but has turned on with his torments.

    I was having a similar thought, only what if the Elder Dragon spheres were locks holding something imprisoned within Tyria. Which is why with sufficient elder dragons being taken out the world cracks and releases what is inside. I know it's a longshot, but an interesting thought.

    Interesting, my question would be have we seen any beings of that kind of power? What could possibly take that much power to imprison and what would be able to overcome it to imprison it in the first place? I feel like the way this episode ended we're about to find a new major power in the universe. While I sadly never played the original Guild Wars i do know from various lore videos on youtube (such as WoodenPotatoes) that humans aren't native to Tyria, while most have forgotten the fact, I wonder if this could eventually lead into something where we start "going back to go forward" type of deal. One thing I'm unsure of exactly though is how the humans came to be on Tyria. What brought them here and can we as Tyrians go back?

    No matter how this whole thing goes, I feel like we're about to be introduced to some new cosmic force that is going to be greater than anything we've ever seen before, possibly more powerful than the Gods and Elder Dragons combined. Again this is all just casual speculation but I think it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

    Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

    This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.
    Asgard is the Mist
    Midgard is Tyria
    Muspelheim is Primo
    Niflheim is Jormag
    Alfheim is Mord
    Helheim is Zhaitan
    Svartalfheim is Kral
    Deep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

    I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Mickey Frogeater.1470Mickey Frogeater.1470 Member ✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

    Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

    This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.
    Asgard is the Mist
    Midgard is Tyria
    Muspelheim is Primo
    Niflheim is Jormag
    Alfheim is Mord
    Helheim is Zhaitan
    Svartalfheim is Kral
    Deep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

    I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

    Ginnungagap apparently is tied to the Ocean in some Norse Texts(despite others claiming there was no Sea when the Ginnungagap first existed).

    Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

    Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

    This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.
    Asgard is the Mist
    Midgard is Tyria
    Muspelheim is Primo
    Niflheim is Jormag
    Alfheim is Mord
    Helheim is Zhaitan
    Svartalfheim is Kral
    Deep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

    I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

    Ginnungagap apparently is tied to the Ocean in some Norse Texts(despite others claiming there was no Sea when the Ginnungagap first existed).

    Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

    Njord is also a Vanir sea god and the father of Freyr and Frejya. Also something something favorable conditions for fisherman and seafarers. But the realm itself is described as a fertile realm of magic and light. Nidavellir is however the 9th and I'm not sure how it would fit into this equation.

    I like the correlation. I don't know that it fits all that well, but it's a nice symmetry.

  • @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    That drawing by Scarlet directly conflicts with the Priory's map of the All. And Taimi's simulation that had the Tyria, the central orb, destabilize when Jormag's and Primordus' orbs died.

    File:The_All_%28texture%29.png

    It would also make zero sense for Zhaitan's orb to crash into the Pale Tree (which was confirmed a representation of Zhaitan's magic spreading into Tyria, iirc), or for the Elder Dragons to revolve around the Pale Tree.

    Again, not talking about the Pale Tree here. Talking about something similar but on a world scale where all life originates from, hence "World Tree" where all life is born that summons an avatar similar to the Pale Tree.

    Not conflicting at all either since the central sphere remains the same as a representation where all life originates and the other spheres of influence can destroy that central sphere of life if imbalanced.

    This World Tree theory is interesting since the Mist, Tyria, and Elder Dragons somewhat represents 7 of the 9 realms in Norse Myth.
    Asgard is the Mist
    Midgard is Tyria
    Muspelheim is Primo
    Niflheim is Jormag
    Alfheim is Mord
    Helheim is Zhaitan
    Svartalfheim is Kral
    Deep Sea don't fit in any realm though...

    I'm not saying that this is where they got their reference, I simply find it interesting.

    Ginnungagap apparently is tied to the Ocean in some Norse Texts(despite others claiming there was no Sea when the Ginnungagap first existed).

    Deep Sea Dragon is Ginnungagap or Vanaheim(which is tied to Water and Woods)!

    Njord is also a Vanir sea god and the father of Freyr and Frejya. Also something something favorable conditions for fisherman and seafarers. But the realm itself is described as a fertile realm of magic and light. Nidavellir is however the 9th and I'm not sure how it would fit into this equation.

    I like the correlation. I don't know that it fits all that well, but it's a nice symmetry.

    Niðavellir and Svartalfheim are one and the same... Helheim is part of Niflheim(as is Niflhelheim) if you were unaware... This means that Jormag doesn't match any of the Nine Realms including the one that doesn't fit into the equation AKA Jotunheim/Utgard(which was apparently turned by Utgard-Loki into a Castle with illusion magic to trick Thor who was traversing Jotunheim)!

    It's interesting how Gesta Danorum says it was Utgard-Loki who was bound inside a cave which means he insulted everyone at the party and not the Loki that was Odin's annoying blood-brother like modern readers assume... Utgard-Loki is clearly the main villain of Ragnarok who killed Baldur(tricking Baldur's brother into using Mistilteinn/Mistletoe the sword of the Witch King Þráinn no less) and the nemesis of Heimdall who he mutually kills!

    Wonder what happens the normal Loki... The guy is only mentioned as pulling off ridiculous pranks on people and challenging Utgard-Loki's Flame(Norse word for Flame is Logi) to an eating contest so what happened to him?

  • Tanith.5264Tanith.5264 Member ✭✭✭

    I still maintain that the DSD is going to be Cthulhu, at least the Tyrian version of him. So y'all enjoy your sanity while it lasts. ;)

    On topic...I'm intrigued by the many mentions of "torment" in the last instance and frankly I'm surprised no one else in this thread has touched on it. We weren't even fighting Kralk so much as his "torment" and he directly mentioned it during the fight. Something to the effect that the "torment" lies and tells him to destroy everything to stop his pain.

    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    I still maintain that the DSD is going to be Cthulhu, at least the Tyrian version of him. So y'all enjoy your sanity while it lasts. ;)

    On topic...I'm intrigued by the many mentions of "torment" in the last instance and frankly I'm surprised no one else in this thread has touched on it. We weren't even fighting Kralk so much as his "torment" and he directly mentioned it during the fight. Something to the effect that the "torment" lies and tells him to destroy everything to stop his pain.

    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

    I assumed it had transformed to match Kormir will

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

    Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

    That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is eons old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Tanith.5264Tanith.5264 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

    Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

    That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is eons old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

    You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tanith.5264 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

    Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

    That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is eons old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

    You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

    Those magics exasperated the issue. It was clear from flint and snaff who was in his mind, that his rage existed on awakening and had done as part of his nature for a long time

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Tanith.5264 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    As far as I know, the Tyrian Realm of Torment is still there. Who's hanging out there these days?

    Until Path of Fire, Kormir was. Who was strictly "non-interference with Elder Dragons".

    That said, Kralkatorrik's torment is eons old. If it were to be tied to the Realm of Torment, this connection was made long before the Six Gods showed up.

    You sure? Aurene said that "the magics" were warring within Kralk and tearing him apart. I'd assumed she meant the magic of Zhaitan, Mordy, and Balthazar. Now, none of that has any origin in the RoT either, but I found the choice of words interesting.

    If he was only tormented from the moment of consuming Zhaitan's magic, then he would have been a good dragon when he woke up and killed Glint. When Snaff goes into Kralkatorrik's mind in Edge of Destiny, what he finds is a mind seeking to consuming and destroying everything and hating that which isn't himself, which is what the Torment tells Kralkatorrik. When Glint talked about Kralkatorrik from ages past (mind you, her memories go only 3,000 years back), it was that all-destroying monstrosity.

    Besides that, the Elder Dragons consume magic from the ley lines. In Season 3, Taimi confirmed that the ley lines were a mix of all Tyrian magic. So they'd be consuming all kinds of magic for eons. Just never the magic of a dead cosmic being.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

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