Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Needs Some Genuine Nerf Bat Love in the Next Balance Update

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  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    Sic Em and One Wolf Pack are both completely garbage gimmick utilities. You guys are dying to a meme build.

    They aren't fun to fight against, aren't viable in competitive, and require very little skill to play. Remove them both from the game for all I care, the builds that use them are trash anyways.

    The only time a Sic Em + OWP longbow build should ever be used is if you want to gank people that don't know how to defend themselves properly.

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)
    it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...
    failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)
    it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...
    failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

    Sure! While your opponent is jist staying still looking at you lol...

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    @Zawn.9647 said:
    awesome video. 100% demonstrates the problems with SB :)
    it doesnt matter if you dodge LB4+LB2 with SicEm, because GS2 hit harder than any warrior could ever dream to hit...
    failed GS2 aswell? LB3... failed that? GS3 away + merge with your pet and F1/F2/F3 away (depending on the pet) - oh way my LB2+LB4 is back again :D:

    Sure! While your opponent is jist staying still looking at you lol...

    i really dont know if your trolling or not :)
    do I need to ask permission for my opponent to get away with GS3+merge pet+stealth? last time i checked, i didnt... neither does the opponent can do much to stop me if I started from LB range and then decided to flee after missing (or not killing) with my LB4+2

  • @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Asuran.5469 said:
    This one was funny.

    About as funny as a Formula 1 driver making fun of people driving VW Polos after a race, yeah.

    I don't get it and that's why I +1 ;)

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    I admit, part of my reason for starting a separate SlB thread is to see if they can collectively generate enough noise to get something done. It certainly worked on mesmer. The double standards may be insurmountable though.

    With mirage it worked because an entire community required an attunement for the profession, here I only see people who require nerfs because they feel that their profession is no longer the strongest.

    You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

    What're we planning on making unviable after Soulbeast by the way bois?

    Rampage-main is on my dartboard and people who have rampage instead of the brain

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    My beef is with 4 sec unblockable on a 10 second cooldown, really (combined with a stunbreak). Soulbeast has as a minor trait what other classes have as a utility skill.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Who would've thought that balance issues would arise when you take a skill that was designed years prior, balanced around it being used for a pet, only to keep its damage modifier as-is without any adjustments when given interaction to the player via Soulbeast.

    Regardless of whether it is as valuable as other utility skills, the skill is unhealthy as is. I honestly don't know why people try to defend this dumb gimmick. 40% damage modifier from a single utility skill? And no, not just for a few attacks, but for 10 flat seconds, with slightly over 33% uptime when traited. This skill is a balance embarrassment and belongs in the garbage bin. Too much nerfing and it'll make the skill absolute trash, so I'm in favor it being reworked to something more balanced and healthy for the game. People are suggesting to nerf things like longbow, but the weapon is well-balanced as is and doesn't need any nerfs (or buffs) to it.

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Who would've thought that balance issues would arise when you take a skill that was designed years prior, balanced around it being used for a pet, only to keep its damage modifier as-is without any adjustments when given interaction to the player via Soulbeast.

    Regardless of whether it is as valuable as other utility skills, the skill is unhealthy as is. I honestly don't know why people try to defend this dumb gimmick. 40% damage modifier from a single utility skill? And no, not just for a few attacks, but for 10 flat seconds, with slightly over 33% uptime when traited. This skill is a balance embarrassment and belongs in the garbage bin. Too much nerfing and it'll make the skill absolute trash, so I'm in favor it being reworked to something more balanced and healthy for the game. People are suggesting to nerf things like longbow, but the weapon is well-balanced as is and doesn't need any nerfs (or buffs) to it.

    Agree but range on this weapon is literally bugged and 400 further than intended. Lets call it a bug fix

  • Just to clarify, I'm not calling for SlB to be nerfed into the ground or smiter's booned. Over-nerfs are bad for any class, and SlB is no exception. I'm just saying that while many builds have been greatly toned down, SlB, along with a few other outliers remain noticeably untouched (or barely touched) and out of alignment.

    It's not even the meme builds that are necessarily a problem, but the hybrid builds that have as good damage as they have sustain, both of which are excellent. Its basic kit is just way overtuned. Things like Sic 'Em that are reasonable in core Ranger get blown way out of proportion on SlB.

    SlB is conspicuously in need of a real "trade off" in keeping with Anet's recently announced balance direction. And no, sacrificing pet abilities while in Beastmode is not much of a trade off when those abilities are instead used by the SlB to much greater effect. Some have predicted that limiting SlB to one pet and entering and exiting Beastmode counting as pet swap (for those mechanics) are a sensible trade off. Whether it is or not, SlB desperately needs a trade off because as it stands, it's just a far, far better ranger without giving up much at all.

    Comparisons to Deadeye are telling. It can be said that both DE and Sic 'Em Sniper SlBs served the same role. The difference is DE is as glassy as it gets, with only stealth to survive and disengage. Death's Judgment underwent mutiple nerfs and the nail in DE's coffin was the nerf to stealth. SlB starts off much sturdier and while its snipe may not necessarily be 1-shot, it's certainly 2-shot capable. It's also far less telegraphed which makes it far easier with which to catch opponents off guard, and lacks in counterplay. I would honestly rather have DE in its pre-nerfed state than SlB Snipers.

    As has already been said, LoS is not a LB trump card. WvW is full of wide open spaces, and even in sPvP, maps like Capricorn and Foefire are quite open. Then there are the long open runs between nodes of all maps. And that's all assuming one can even react near instantly to quickness- and damage-boosted Rapid Fire, sometimes out of stealth. Or in the middle of a team fight when one is already engaged and a SlB slips in from elsewhere and focuses you. Same role as DE, but far less obvious until too late.

    Top players may have the years of experience to effectively counter these tactics, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just too effective in the vast majority of the base, for relatively little skill and effort. This basic argument sent all varieties of Mesmer into B-class. Why should the standards change when a different profession is in question?

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Sic Em and One Wolf Pack are both completely garbage gimmick utilities. You guys are dying to a meme build.

    They aren't fun to fight against, aren't viable in competitive, and require very little skill to play. Remove them both from the game for all I care, the builds that use them are trash anyways.

    The only time a Sic Em + OWP longbow build should ever be used is if you want to gank people that don't know how to defend themselves properly.

    ^ This

    It's just a meme counter build for vs. specific team comps when people stack too many FBs/Necros/Thieves on same team. Otherwise, I run Druid or Scrapper to side node. I know no one wants to accept this... but this whole Sic Em thing really is the most l2p issue that ever was a l2p issue.

    I mean, if any of these people cared to notice, in my Berserker Soulbeast videos, it's showing footage of bottom plat maybe bottom plat 2 kills at best, probably many of them in gold 3. In the footage of my Druid, it shows 1v1s against Gods of PvP and Best of Bestests. I dunno, make of that what you want.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Sic Em is a bit stupid on SLB with 40% Dmg Buff for 10s (+ Reveal) on not even 30s CD, but otherwise I don't really think SLB is a balance issue atm. Sic Em needs either lower duration, higher CD or less Dmg Buff. Probably hitting duration is the best idea, worked fine when nerfing One Wolf Pack.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about mAT return and PvP content

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

    RIGHT!

    Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

    Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

    The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

    I understand what you mean, but would you have preferred to see mirage as a druid?

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

    RIGHT!

    Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

    Actually you just described rampage elite...

    Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

    Rampage-mains using exact same arguments but add also random babbling about l2p

  • @Asuran.5469 said:
    This one was funny.

    As a thief main: Why in the hell is SB doing what my profession's ingame description says it should? -_-

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Revolution.5409 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    You are far away from truth my boy. That wasnt "attunement for the profession" that was a begging to farm them without any effort,so that happened, butchered to its core with 50% damage nerfs,trait deletions. Why bother with elite spec,core is faster to nerf. Would be funny to see core ranger to get gutted though.

    I understand what you mean, but would you have preferred to see mirage as a druid?

    What? Do you mean like mirage would be as bad as druid? I'd say mesmer is a meme now at this point, couldnt care less about mirage which comes with more downsides than cons, lol.
    How come rn top10 is a druid main?
    https://ibb.co/zXmRrRD
    https://ibb.co/0csL1fz
    How they even win with a druid ? p.s beaten guys are tryhards/monthly winners multiple times.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

    RIGHT!

    Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

    Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

    The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

    Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

    Nearly every single weapon skill on Sw/P A/T Condi Mirage can be used mid-range and:

    1. Needs to be dodged
      • Mirage Thrust (spammable)
      • Illusionary Leap -> Swap
      • Phantasmal Duelist
      • Magic Bullet
      • Imaginary Axes
      • Lingering Thoughts
      • Axes of Symmetry
      • The Prestige
      • Phantasmal Mage
  • Does a lot of burst/DoT
    • Phantasmal Duelist
    • Imaginary Axes
    • Lingering Thoughts
    • Axes of Symmetry
    • The Prestige
    • Phantasmal Mage
  • Provides a lot of utility/survivability/mobility
    • Mirage Thrust (spammable)
    • Blurred Frenzy
    • Illusionary Leap -> Swap
    • Magic Bullet
    • Axes of Symmetry
    • The Prestige
    • Phantasmal Mage
  • Hard CCs
    • Mirage Thrust (spammable)
    • Magic Bullet
    • Phantasmal Mage
  • Compare that to lb/gs soulbeast where the only skills you really need to avoid are Maul, Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Fire. Hilt Bash/Takedown/Worldly Impact are extremely close range melee skills that you can easily out-range by walking away. You can also completely negate Sic Em and OWP by walking behind LoS. This essentially renders the soulbeast useless for the next 30-60 seconds.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

    RIGHT!

    Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

    Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

    The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

    Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

    Imma stop you right there.
    Lets get one thing straight.
    I dont care for condi mirage
    IN FACT. I believe I have been quite vocal about ways to nerf it and condi. As I have frequently said.
    Conditions being a DoT (Damage over time in case you didnt know) should NEVER be burst.
    It's one of the many failed designs that Anet has thought up.
    So with that out the way. Your entire post to me about condi mirage is moot

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:
    It's funny seeing people defending this lunacy that two patches ago assumed every mirage player was a delusional class carried noob.

    RIGHT!

    Like it used to be "OMG you one shot me, your combo is brain dead easy and you are getting carried you needa a nerf to everything"

    Now those people " OMG this is a gimmick you can dodge and LOS, it's very hard to pull off it needs to be buffed"

    The forums are a great source for examples on "Hypocrisy at its finest"

    Condi mirage wasn't a gimmick spec that relied on all of it's traits and utilities to 100-0 someone.

    Imma stop you right there.
    Lets get one thing straight.
    I dont care for condi mirage
    IN FACT. I believe I have been quite vocal about ways to nerf it and condi. As I have frequently said.
    Conditions being a DoT (Damage over time in case you didnt know) should NEVER be burst.
    It's one of the many failed designs that Anet has thought up.
    So with that out the way. Your entire post to me about condi mirage is moot

    First, you quoted someone that thought people "defending" Sic Em Ranger is funny considering they were complaining about Mirage two patches ago.

    Then, you called the same people hypocritical for saying Mirage was braindead to play whilst Ranger is easy to counter.

    I'm not arguing against you but it sounded like you were defending Mirage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ban all the memes

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    Both classes have the ability to oneshot from stealth ( though for ranger it is a variation of the a GS build) Secondly it's not 2250 more like 1200 at best all of which requires melee range.
    Unless you are saying that people used the ranged shatter combo.
    And the response and counters to that would be the same things you see in this thread by ranger mains.

    1. Don't group condi Mirage together with power Mirage. As I stated in one of my previous posts, nearly every single skill on S/P A/T condi needs to be avoided or you're going to take an incredible amount of damage/get CC'd. Not to mention that you can't even punish a Mirage with well-timed CCs because they can just dodge after getting hit by one (lol). Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.

    I wasn't grouping it together?
    Though merely stating that the complaints for mirage did group them together, thus why it's in the state it is now.

    Why? ...
    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    I wouldn't call them good players if they are still getting insta-gibbed by a class that has had it's damage AND utility nerfed to core levels for a year. Right now warrior, soulbeast, holo, and rev do just as much if not more damage currently. Yet here we are defending the damage output now, when people were condemning it then.
    I would love to see what survivavbility/utility/mobility you are talking about that hasn't been nerfed. MC doesn't cover half the ambushes, so they can be interrupted for little to no gain.
    The vigor that the class needed for it's survivability was nerfed before that.
    The utility was nerfed
    The damage was nerfed.
    And they only hit condi LAST after they kept missing and nerfing power instead.

    Are you one of those people that think clones are a defense?
    Do you think portal is still used outside of tightnit groups?
    Do you consider the nerfed jaunt still worth the slot?

    Like, their is a reason people are playing Chrono.
    Power and condi variants at that.

    1. Funnily enough, Mirage is still very strong.

    LOL

    1. There's been a power mesmer player on the team that has won nearly every single MAT on NA. They wouldn't have used it for monthlies if it didn't work/wasn't effective against top players in an organized environment. So you're claim that "they weren't represented in the top percentiles of the meta" is false. Again, unlike mesmer, there really ISN'T any representation for rangers at the top end asides from maybe one or two ranger players in the top 25 (same as mesmer). The SE OWP SLB build is NEVER used in competitive because any competent player can completely shut down the longbow's burst without using any defensive cooldowns.

    I guess I should say I have been looking at EU ( it's where I do mah PvP ) And their has NOT been a power mirage in the mAT's for a couple of months now. ( I am sorry to say as a native NA player, when me and my WvW roaming friend moved to EU, the quality of pvp we have had their has been IMO vastly superior)
    Your second statement doesn't make sense. Are you saying that two players is representation for mesmer, but not representation for ranger?

    Besides that-
    The arguement of " We cannot balance around the top percentile of players" was a very overused argument as to why mirage needed to be nerfed because of it's over-representation at the bottom.
    You know where all the meme builds sit.

    And just to make sure I get this right.
    Your reasoning as to why Soulbeast doesn't deserve to be nerfed is because power mirage used to be more powerful before it was nerfed to the ground. So soulbeast can stay powerful cause it isn't Elusive Mind power mirage powerful.

    K, That helps a ton so I can grasp the perspective of other ranger mains who are defending their class.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @Solori.6025

    1. Mur plays power mantra Mirage at a pretty high level. One of his favorite combos is stealthing with torch 4 from extremely far away, blink, jaunt, sword leap to travel 2250 range while still in stealth and gs shatter combo. With this, he can respawn at Legacy and blow someone up at mid shortly after exiting the gate. Unlike a SE OWP SLB rotation, you'll never see the Mirage coming because of how far he can travel while in stealth. 2250 range is essentially two+ entire screens away.
    2. That's exactly my point. Good players can still get dropped by a mantra mesmer fairly easily. Mantras are INSTANT cast. If the person playing mantra mesmer has any semblance of timing, he'll land the entire burst 98% of the time. LoS has no effect on this burst because it relies on a teleport or stealth to set it up. Any player hit by this will have ZERO chance to walk behind an obstacle because they would've lost most/all of their health as soon as they see the first damage indicator for Mirror Blade.
    3. I'm guessing you haven't seen some of the 1v1 tournies that were streamed on NA. Usually at least one of the finalists/favorites to win were players using zerker/marauder mantras with core mesmer/mirage.
      Why? ...
      Like I said before, these builds are extremely effective. Even in dueling scenarios with no build restrictions, the frequent, reliable burst (with or without stealth), constant-high damage ranged pressure coupled with high mobility are very hard for a good player to deal with.
    4. Take Mirage Thrust for example. You can interrupt the actual Mirage before the attack lands, but you still get dazed because of Infinite Horizon. Even if you SOMEHOW managed to AoE interrupt every single illusion at the end of their evade frames (which is basically impossible if they're staggered), you can't even punish the Mirage after because he can just enter Mirage Cloak while he's CC'd.
    5. Again, while Mirage isn't S+ tier like it used to be, it's still very effective in the right hands.
    6. The general quality of randoms in EU PvP might be higher because of the increased population. However, the top players on NA are just the same skill level as the top ones on EU. Even then, there's probably about 15-ish players on NA that I'd consider "pros" compared to the 25-ish on EU. So, the difference isn't THAT big.
    7. I couldn't care less about representation. It's not an effective way to judge how strong classes/builds are. The only reason I mentioned representation in the top 25 was because you did. I have never used it as a reason to justify nerfs/buffs.

    You seem to misunderstand. I REALLY dislike the SE OWP SLB builds.
    I'd love it if they were removed from the game completely because of how little skill they take to play coupled with how INEFFECTIVE they are against anyone with their monitor turned on.

    Furthermore, the whole "EU PvP is superior" argument is extremely overused. I did my placements twice on EU on my alt account with 180 ping and placed around 1840 (top 30) during Season Nine and Ten. And yes, that's higher than I get on NA because it's easier to steal rating due to the higher population.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

    lol

    1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range
    2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly after getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.
    3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.
    4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.
    5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's never been a SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:
      • The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)
      • The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

    As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of, "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

    lol

    1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range
    2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly after getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.
    3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.
    4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.
    5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:
      • The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)
      • The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

    As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

    I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme
    I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s
    Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.
    He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.
    Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.
    Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.
    The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Mur plays power mantra Mirage at a pretty high level. One of his favorite combos is stealthing with torch 4 from extremely far away, blink, jaunt, sword leap to travel 2250 range while still in stealth and gs shatter combo. With this, he can respawn at Legacy and blow someone up at mid shortly after exiting the gate. Unlike a SE OWP SLB rotation, you'll never see the Mirage coming because of how far he can travel while in stealth. 2250 range is essentially two+ entire screens away.

    ....So with 3 seconds of stealth. The distance from gate to mid from red ( and blue) is too far.
    tested with 63ping and 100FPS.
    Would be great if you can link a recent vid of him doing this.
    Until then, Imma say this is impossible currently.

    • By the time you get to the point where mid shows up or about 300-200 units away from mid point stealth ends.
    1. That's exactly my point. Good players can still get dropped by a mantra mesmer fairly easily. Mantras are INSTANT cast. If the person playing mantra mesmer has any semblance of timing, he'll land the entire burst 98% of the time. LoS has no effect on this burst because it relies on a teleport or stealth to set it up. Any player hit by this will have ZERO chance to walk behind an obstacle because they would've lost most/all of their health as soon as they see the first damage indicator for Mirror Blade.

    Correction- They will have lost MOST of their health, not all, as this spec has been nerfed repeatedly to prevent this at the behest and spearheading of the "Knowledgeable community"
    Unlike the Rangers Maul or WI oneshot. Which will kill you from stealth and you wont see it coming at all, someone posted an image of a 25k+ hit on these boards.
    Everyone else doing this damage was nerfed. I fully expect ranger to follow.

    AND this isn't even taking into account the followup AA's from soulbeast that hit for 8-10k

    1. I'm guessing you haven't seen some of the 1v1 tournies that were streamed on NA. Usually at least one of the finalists/favorites to win were players using zerker/marauder mantras with core mesmer/mirage.

    No.. I honestly didn't know NA had 1v1's Last I read they didn't let mirage in because of Elusive Mind.
    Last I also checked Boonbeast was the 1v1 king

    Why?
    Like I said before, these builds are extremely effective. Even in dueling scenarios with no build restrictions, the frequent, reliable burst (with or without stealth), constant-high damage ranged pressure coupled with high mobility are very hard for a good player to deal with.
    4. Take Mirage Thrust for example. You can interrupt the actual Mirage before the attack lands, but you still get dazed because of Infinite Horizon. Even if you SOMEHOW managed to AoE interrupt every single illusion at the end of their evade frames (which is basically impossible if they're staggered), you can't even punish the Mirage after because he can just enter Mirage Cloak while he's CC'd.

    Most people learned to cleave clones. What that scenario actually looks like is mesmer summons clones.... clones die from cleave . . .
    ( and this is assuming that the mirage is using sword which has also been nerfed and is still behind scepter in terms of utility )
    Unless this is done ONLY from stealth ( like the oneshot maul) this is one of the easiest things to shut down and avoid at this point and also one of the easier to punish .

    I don't understand honestly how double mantra power mirage is this oppressive thing when a Holo/rev/soulbeast has more damage and has access to more reliable defenses and CC.
    Like I know NA and EU are vastly different but it cant be THAT different that players still think Double Mantra is meta or as effective as the other top specs.

    1. I couldn't care less about representation. It's not an effective way to judge how strong classes/builds are. The only reason I mentioned representation in the top 25 was because you did.

    Ahh ok. Let me explain this then.

    Once upon a time players in the forum wanted Condi-Mirage nerfed ( I was one of those people but I wanted it nerfed the right way, not in the way the "knowledgable community" wanted it gutted)
    Some mirage players that mained condi mirage used the argument that Condi mirage was not overly represented in the top percentiles of pvp. In other words they did not dominate the top 25 or even 100 spots. So the calls for nerfs were being done by players in the lower brackets of pvp silver to gold. ( mid gold).
    The response to this was " So what, we don't and shouldn't balance the game around the top percentile of players because that isn't where the majority is".
    This was the precedent set for where things should be considered when nerfs are being requested.
    Fast forward to now.

    The argument Shot down for mesmers about leaderboard representation is being re-used to justify why the ranger builds deserve to not be nerfed and justification as to why it needs to stay the way it is.

    Going to my first post. ^ That is what I am talking about when I call out the Hypocrisy in this thread. ( among other things)

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

    lol

    1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range
    2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly after getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.
    3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.
    4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.
    5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:
      • The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)
      • The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

    As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

    I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme
    I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s
    Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.
    He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.
    Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.
    Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.
    The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

    1. That's why mantra mesmers play heavily around LoS. They don't need an immense amount of defenses when all they need to do is burst, kite behind LoS, and repeat. Eventually, either their opponent manages to kill them or they make a mistake and get one-shot.
    2. While the number of top players on EU is higher, the skill level of top players on NA is the same.
    3. Just because you evaded the attack doesn't mean it's not nearly instant. You can watch any montage of a power mesmer hitting their combo and you have about a quarter of a second to react before you die. Compare that to SE OWP LB SLBs who need to channel about 1.9 seconds of Rapid Fire to kill someone.
    4. No he didn't run mantas. He despises them because of how little skill they require to play effectively.
    5. I believe there's a screenshot somewhere from Jeff a few months ago that showed how high his ping was during that tournament.
    6. I don't understand what you're talking about but in regards to the mantra mesmer burst: the mantras are instant cast so whether or not the damage lands depends on the mesmer, not their target.
  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

    lol

    1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range
    2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly after getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.
    3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.
    4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.
    5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:
      • The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)
      • The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

    As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

    I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme
    I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s
    Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.
    He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.
    Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.
    Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.
    The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

    1. That's why mantra mesmers play heavily around LoS. They don't need an immense amount of defenses when all they need to do is burst, kite behind LoS, and repeat. Eventually, either their opponent manages to kill them or they make a mistake and get one-shot.
    2. While the number of top players on EU is higher, the skill level of top players on NA is the same.
    3. Just because you evaded the attack doesn't mean it's not nearly instant. You can watch any montage of a power mesmer hitting their combo and you have about a quarter of a second to react before you die. Compare that to SE OWP LB SLBs who need to channel about 1.9 seconds of Rapid Fire to kill someone.
    4. No he didn't run mantas. He despises them because of how little skill they require to play effectively.
    5. I believe there's a screenshot somewhere from Jeff a few months ago that showed how high his ping was during that tournament.
    6. I don't understand what you're talking about but in regards to the mantra mesmer burst: the mantras are instant cast so whether or not the damage lands depends on the mesmer, not their target.

    I have no idea what LoS you talking about, all I can imagine if I'd play mantra mesmer any thieves/revs/holos/scrappers would eat me alive on the map and make me rage delete the game despite all LoS you can find on maps
    So did you farm 2 top players you 1x2'd?
    I dont have issues with mantra mesmers because they waste their mantra and free to kill in 99% of the cases and easly shut down by a thief that has 0.5 of a brain cell or just a rev that need to use only one UA to send him on respawn , they suffer from LoS the most as their only opportunity is blink which is on 30s cd, may the god bless you if you play against two s/d thieves.
    Most likely because its hot garbage, no other reason, as it to "have fun" like this meme zerk DE.
    I dont know even...except that no one ever playing this mantras here, ever... I tried few time and I was irritated how dumb to run around and before every burst you need to basically stand AFK waiting for mantra to charge and your target is jumping like monkey and to land the burst he shouldnt random evade/block/have stability/passives to actually kill something. Thats where "reliable" becomes highly UNRELIABLE for me. Missed a burst ? How do you RELIABLY land it with f3 being 38s cd?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025

    Your formatting is really spacey and hard to read.

    1. I said that combo was possible "shortly AFTER exiting the gate." Mur showed me where he positions himself prior to blowing someone up at mid.
      He starts here (approximately 5 seconds after walking out of the gate) so that he can see everyone at mid while hiding behind LoS. Then he stealths, uses Blink, Jaunt, and Mirage Thrust to get to here where he does the shatter combo.
    2. Um... CORRECTION: mantras have been buffed nearly every time they've been mentioned in the patch notes. Buff = opposite of a nerf btw
    3. The reason you see more mesmer one-shot compilations than ranger one-shot compilations is because the mesmer build is way more effective/viable.
    4. I've been in the finals for the past two 1v1 tournaments on NA. The first one I lost 0-2 to Kronos playing EM condi Mirage at it's prime 0-2. The second one I won 2-1 against CJ playing core mantra shatter mesmer. While the condi Mirage build was extremely overpowered back then, the core mantra mesmer was harder to fight because if I messed up once I was dead. The duel went on for about 15-20 minutes because he was abusing LoS so that I couldn't kill his zerker build and I had to play perfectly and correctly react to/predict his shatters/mantras so that I wouldn't get 100-0'd or have my heal interrupted.
      Also, there were usually one or two mantra mesmers that made it pretty far in the brackets simply because players who didn't know how to defend themselves against the massive bursts from stealth/teleport got blown up pretty fast.
    5. I said that the mantra mesmer builds were very effective. I never said that they were meta/as effective as other top specs.
    6. Zeromis swapped from his power shatter build to condi during a few of the MATs I believe. So the representation at the "top percentiles of PvP" was there.
  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    1. Yeah because unlike the one-shot soulbeast build, you can't just walk away from the power Mirage to avoid the entire burst. Worldly Impact is stationary and Rapid Fire can be completely avoided by walking behind LoS. On the other hand, the Mirage has instant cast mantras combined with a greatsword shatter combo that can one-shot from stealth up to 2250 range away.

    What are you smoking? From where you get 2250 range?!
    Soulbeast oneshot that comes from from possible 1900 range and if you dont react instant, you are dead on spot without a chance getting to LoS, hi quickness and follow up with smokescale->gs.
    Unlike soulbeast oneshot dodging once is enough to avoid entire combo when SLB 2 wont be enough just as blocks/reflects wont work.

    Making a comparison between Mirage and the meme Sic Em + OWP Soulbeast is a joke considering there are very high level power shatter players that can compete at the top level with builds like that.
    Why? ...

    Because its NA. Replace mirage on any class and that team still roflface other teams like they dont exist regardless.

    Because Mirage has a way more reliable, frequent burst while having more team utility/mobility/survivability than SE OWP Soulbeast. Good players will still get insta-gibbed by Mirage, but they can easily counter a longbow ranger.

    Double mantra zerk has reliable/frequent(lolwat) burst? What mobility compared to gs3/bird/perma swiftness? Survivability with just one stealth on 30s cd? Really? Did you even think about it for a second ? How would you use blink in that case? To try to burst or try to disengage once you get attention? How you use stealth? For burst or for escaping?

    4.

    Read above. For a reason not even one power mesmer was spotted at EU mAT (Scepter chronobunker=/=power mesmer or that instabig mirage with 2 mantras),unless you willing to show uber dominating isntagibbing mirage everyone and everything as you claim it to be, latest mAT mesmer main had to play the most modern and skill based class - scrapper

    lol

    1. Blink (1200 range) + Jaunt (450 range) + Mirage Thrust (600 range) = 2250 range
    2. I can link a vod footage from my streams that show me winning 1vXs against Sic Em One Wolf Pack Longbow Soulbeasts. I have never died "on the spot" even though I reacted shortly after getting hit by a Point Blank Shot for half my health. Why? I stunbreak, dodge, and use any other defenses I need to in order to make it behind LoS and/or to kill the ranger quickly so I don't have to worry about getting shot in the back.
    3. Exactly. So, if you don't see the Mirage coming and don't randomly dodge the combo from stealth, you INSTANTLY eat all of the damage and die. However, as you said it yourself, one dodge isn't enough to avoid the FULL BURST from a longbow Soulbeast. Thus, you have time to save yourself soon after you take the first hit.
    4. The same team on NA that runs Mirage beat EU's top team during the last big tournament. Also, don't use ping as an argument. 3/5 of the players on NA (the ones who live on the west coast) had about the same/higher ping than than some of the players from EU.
    5. This is why I don't use representation as an argument. There's no SE OWP LB Soulbeast in the finals for any MAT but I still think it's a dumb build to play/fight against. However, the only times I ever argue for a nerf are when:
      • The build takes absolutely ZERO skill to play effectively (D/D condi thief, old bunker phantasm chrono, SE OWP LB SLB, etc. etc.)
      • The skill required to play a build that's extraordinarily difficult for a top player to deal with is SEVERELY disproportionate in regards to how much skill it takes to play. (Condi Mirage, old bunker chrono, etc. etc.)

    As you can see, SE OWP LB SLB falls into the category of "Complete trash builds that only kill you if you're closing your eyes but still do way too much damage because of two buttons they pressed (SE and OWP)."

    I just lol at this 2250 range tbh, tremendous waste of resources with no guarantee on kill and once you fail you are as good as dead, which is exact why its a meme
    I should watch NA quality players playing like monkaS and fail to deliver anything? Sounds like a plan ! /s
    Not really instant, countless amount of times I evaded that unless you completely brain afk and dont even think about it even then passives carry the day for thieves/holos/scrappers/spbs and whoever passive-autoproc saved there.
    He didnt ran that magical almighty doublemantra, didnt he ? Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt that the only "team" in the entire game? If you can prove ping thing then I believe, otherwise not.
    Before they deleted pretty much every major master trait at dueling mesmer representation was close to none, didnt stop them.
    Honestly, I highly dont care about mirage, dodge in CC made everyone scream like autists with foam at the mouth and instead of solve the problems they intentionally made for sales,they just ruined core to hell.
    The same I can say about mesmer burst, only blind can die to it

    1. That's why mantra mesmers play heavily around LoS. They don't need an immense amount of defenses when all they need to do is burst, kite behind LoS, and repeat. Eventually, either their opponent manages to kill them or they make a mistake and get one-shot.
    2. While the number of top players on EU is higher, the skill level of top players on NA is the same.
    3. Just because you evaded the attack doesn't mean it's not nearly instant. You can watch any montage of a power mesmer hitting their combo and you have about a quarter of a second to react before you die. Compare that to SE OWP LB SLBs who need to channel about 1.9 seconds of Rapid Fire to kill someone.
    4. No he didn't run mantas. He despises them because of how little skill they require to play effectively.
    5. I believe there's a screenshot somewhere from Jeff a few months ago that showed how high his ping was during that tournament.
    6. I don't understand what you're talking about but in regards to the mantra mesmer burst: the mantras are instant cast so whether or not the damage lands depends on the mesmer, not their target.

    I have no idea what LoS you talking about, all I can imagine if I'd play mantra mesmer any thieves/revs/holos/scrappers would eat me alive on the map and make me rage delete the game despite all LoS you can find on maps
    So did you farm 2 top players you 1x2'd?
    I dont have issues with mantra mesmers because they waste their mantra and free to kill in 99% of the cases and easly shut down by a thief that has 0.5 of a brain cell or just a rev that need to use only one UA to send him on respawn , they suffer from LoS the most as their only opportunity is blink which is on 30s cd, may the god bless you if you play against two s/d thieves.
    Most likely because its hot garbage, no other reason, as it to "have fun" like this meme zerk DE.
    I dont know even...except that no one ever playing this mantras here, ever... I tried few time and I was irritated how dumb to run around and before every burst you need to basically stand AFK waiting for mantra to charge and your target is jumping like monkey and to land the burst he shouldnt random evade/block/have stability/passives to actually kill something. Thats where "reliable" becomes highly UNRELIABLE for me. Missed a burst ? How do you RELIABLY land it with f3 being 38s cd?

    1. Watch one of Shorts' mantra mesmer videos like this one. He's probably a decent example of how to play it effectively/consistently land the burst. Also, there are probably better examples of him blowing someone up but the timestamp I linked was just what I found after spending 2 minutes looking for one.
    2. Yeah that's my job as a side noder. The vods are probably deleted by now but you might be able to find footage/multiple examples from one of Vallun's streams a few months ago where I'll be 1v1ing someone on a side node, he'll jump on me and I'll end up killing them both or he'll have to port away to save himself.
    3. Like I said before, mantras are instant cast so it's up to the mesmer if they land or not. If you see a mantra mesmer miss/waste them, he's not a good player.
    4. Again, if you're having a hard time playing mantra mesmer, you just need to practice more. It's not the most forgiving build to play, but if you know how to survive on it/land your bursts, it's very effective at carrying games. And, as you said yourself, the build is unreliable for YOU because you aren't good at it. Lastly, no, the burst does not require you to land Diversion in order to one-shot someone (which you can see in the clip I linked).

    Watch that video for about 2 minutes after the timestamp.


    1. He survives a thief jumping on him
    2. Kills the thief
    3. Escapes from 4 people jumping on him at mid
    4. Thief gets rezzed
    5. He kills the thief again 30 seconds later
    6. Thief gets rezzed
    7. He goes mid and would've one-shot the scrapper if he didn't save himself with A.E.D.

    At 3:40, Shorts:


    1. Survives a rev jumping on him
    2. Rotates to a 1v1 on Waterfall
    3. Kills the mesmer which rallies his downed teammate
    4. Kills the thief which rallies his downed teammate again
    5. Kills the scrapper

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    This debate is so powerful it broke the webpage. :p

    Not sure if it's just me, but all clickables on this page from @shadowpass.4236's post with the Spoiler buttons and up don't work. Everything after it works. The formatting on that post seems strange and none of the Spoiler buttons work. For me at least.

    Yeah it's like that for me as well. I followed the instructions on how to put in the "spoilers" but it looks all janky lol

    There's also a weird dot above each one of the posts following mine as if they're being bulleted.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    Your formatting is really spacey and hard to read.

    1. I said that combo was possible "shortly AFTER exiting the gate." Mur showed me where he positions himself prior to blowing someone up at mid.
      He starts here (approximately 5 seconds after walking out of the gate) so that he can see everyone at mid while hiding behind LoS. Then he stealths, uses Blink, Jaunt, and Mirage Thrust to get to here where he does the shatter combo.

    Ahh I see.. So he does the same thing one shot maul rangers or Sicem Rangers do and use LoS to ambush targets.
    That makes more sense.

    1. Um... CORRECTION: mantras have been buffed nearly every time they've been mentioned in the patch notes. Buff = opposite of a nerf btw

    Wasn't referring to mantra's specifically was referring to power mirage, and if you reply saying power mirage hasn't been nerfed would be blatantly false.

    1. The reason you see more mesmer one-shot compilations than ranger one-shot compilations is because the mesmer build is way more effective/viable.

    I actually am finding about an even number of vids just from a quick youtube search.
    Secondly if the mesmer build was viable and just as effective this board would be full of mesmer complaints like it was a year ago.
    Guess what isn't happening right now.

    1. I've been in the finals for the past two 1v1 tournaments on NA. The first one I lost 0-2 to Kronos playing EM condi Mirage at it's prime 0-2. The second one I won 2-1 against CJ playing core mantra shatter mesmer. While the condi Mirage build was extremely overpowered back then, the core mantra mesmer was harder to fight because if I messed up once I was dead. The duel went on for about 15-20 minutes because he was abusing LoS so that I couldn't kill his zerker build and I had to play perfectly and correctly react to/predict his shatters/mantras so that I wouldn't get 100-0'd or have my heal interrupted.

    So this is back before all the damage and vigor nerfs then.

    1. I said that the mantra mesmer builds were very effective. I never said that they were meta/as effective as other top specs.

    Ahh, I see the past tense. This makes sense as now they aren't.

    1. Zeromis swapped from his power shatter build to condi during a few of the MATs I believe. So the representation at the "top percentiles of PvP" was there.

    From power to condi...
    So power wasn't represented then?
    Cause that was the topic of the discussion...

    Edit: ?
    how is replying to individual points hard to read?
    Are you reading this from a cell phone?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2019

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    Your formatting is really spacey and hard to read.

    1. I said that combo was possible "shortly AFTER exiting the gate." Mur showed me where he positions himself prior to blowing someone up at mid.
      He starts here (approximately 5 seconds after walking out of the gate) so that he can see everyone at mid while hiding behind LoS. Then he stealths, uses Blink, Jaunt, and Mirage Thrust to get to here where he does the shatter combo.

    Ahh I see.. So he does the same thing one shot maul rangers or Sicem Rangers do and use LoS to ambush targets.
    That makes more sense.

    1. Um... CORRECTION: mantras have been buffed nearly every time they've been mentioned in the patch notes. Buff = opposite of a nerf btw

    Wasn't referring to mantra's specifically was referring to power mirage, and if you reply saying power mirage hasn't been nerfed would be blatantly false.

    1. The reason you see more mesmer one-shot compilations than ranger one-shot compilations is because the mesmer build is way more effective/viable.

    I actually am finding about an even number of vids just from a quick youtube search.
    Secondly if the mesmer build was viable and just as effective this board would be full of mesmer complaints like it was a year ago.
    Guess what isn't happening right now.

    1. I've been in the finals for the past two 1v1 tournaments on NA. The first one I lost 0-2 to Kronos playing EM condi Mirage at it's prime 0-2. The second one I won 2-1 against CJ playing core mantra shatter mesmer. While the condi Mirage build was extremely overpowered back then, the core mantra mesmer was harder to fight because if I messed up once I was dead. The duel went on for about 15-20 minutes because he was abusing LoS so that I couldn't kill his zerker build and I had to play perfectly and correctly react to/predict his shatters/mantras so that I wouldn't get 100-0'd or have my heal interrupted.

    So this is back before all the damage and vigor nerfs then.

    1. I said that the mantra mesmer builds were very effective. I never said that they were meta/as effective as other top specs.

    Ahh, I see the past tense. This makes sense as now they aren't.

    1. Zeromis swapped from his power shatter build to condi during a few of the MATs I believe. So the representation at the "top percentiles of PvP" was there.

    From power to condi...
    So power wasn't represented then?
    Cause that was the topic of the discussion...

    Edit: ?
    how is replying to individual points hard to read?
    Are you reading this from a cell phone?

    1. Yep but mantra mesmer can actually escape pretty easily after doing their burst.
    2. I was talking about mantra power mesmers, you quoted me and said, "this spec has been nerfed repeatedly." Mantras have been buffed. Confounding Suggestions and Blinding Dissipation were the two nerfs that affected this build the most.
    3. How about you count them and let me know which one has more? /s
      I'm talking about the number of high level mesmer one-shot compilations compared to high level ranger ones. There's barely a handful of ranger ones that qualify because the builds simply aren't good.
    4. I don't recall. However, your statement that "Boonbeast is the 1v1 king" is false. Bunker Boonbeast loses against Spellbreaker, Holo, and Mirage currently. It's also worse in outnumbered fights.
    5. Congratulations you understand what "past tense" means. Yes, mantra mesmers aren't meta. However, they are still effective when played well against high level players.
    6. They've both been represented fairly equally in the MAT finals. It's only possible for Zeromis to play one or the other.
    7. Yes and no. I'm on my phone and my computer. As I said, your formatting is really spacey. I have to scroll up and down a lot to read your posts because you have quotes in between each one of your responses.
  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    Your formatting is really spacey and hard to read.

    1. I said that combo was possible "shortly AFTER exiting the gate." Mur showed me where he positions himself prior to blowing someone up at mid.
      He starts here (approximately 5 seconds after walking out of the gate) so that he can see everyone at mid while hiding behind LoS. Then he stealths, uses Blink, Jaunt, and Mirage Thrust to get to here where he does the shatter combo.

    Ahh I see.. So he does the same thing one shot maul rangers or Sicem Rangers do and use LoS to ambush targets.
    That makes more sense.

    1. Um... CORRECTION: mantras have been buffed nearly every time they've been mentioned in the patch notes. Buff = opposite of a nerf btw

    Wasn't referring to mantra's specifically was referring to power mirage, and if you reply saying power mirage hasn't been nerfed would be blatantly false.

    1. The reason you see more mesmer one-shot compilations than ranger one-shot compilations is because the mesmer build is way more effective/viable.

    I actually am finding about an even number of vids just from a quick youtube search.
    Secondly if the mesmer build was viable and just as effective this board would be full of mesmer complaints like it was a year ago.
    Guess what isn't happening right now.

    1. I've been in the finals for the past two 1v1 tournaments on NA. The first one I lost 0-2 to Kronos playing EM condi Mirage at it's prime 0-2. The second one I won 2-1 against CJ playing core mantra shatter mesmer. While the condi Mirage build was extremely overpowered back then, the core mantra mesmer was harder to fight because if I messed up once I was dead. The duel went on for about 15-20 minutes because he was abusing LoS so that I couldn't kill his zerker build and I had to play perfectly and correctly react to/predict his shatters/mantras so that I wouldn't get 100-0'd or have my heal interrupted.

    So this is back before all the damage and vigor nerfs then.

    1. I said that the mantra mesmer builds were very effective. I never said that they were meta/as effective as other top specs.

    Ahh, I see the past tense. This makes sense as now they aren't.

    1. Zeromis swapped from his power shatter build to condi during a few of the MATs I believe. So the representation at the "top percentiles of PvP" was there.

    From power to condi...
    So power wasn't represented then?
    Cause that was the topic of the discussion...

    Edit: ?
    how is replying to individual points hard to read?
    Are you reading this from a cell phone?

    1. Yep but mantra mesmer can actually escape pretty easily after doing their burst.

    Ahh yes. Waste a stealth and a stun break and a jaunt.
    Can get away easily with no stun breaks.
    That..makes so much sense../s

    1. I was talking about mantra power mesmers, you quoted me and said, "this spec has been nerfed repeatedly." Mantras have been buffed. Confounding Suggestions and Blinding Dissipation were the two nerfs that affected this build the most.

    And the vigor nerfs which effected its sustain.
    The nerfs to jaunt which effected it's mobility
    The nerfs to Mirror blade which directly effected the burst.
    The nerfs to Mirage cloak
    the nerfs to blurred frenzy..
    All of those effected power mes, and most of that happened while condi mes was rampant.

    1. How about you count them and let me know which one has more? /s

    Rangers, I counted I swear.

    I'm talking about the number of high level mesmer one-shot compilations compared to high level ranger ones. There's barely a handful of ranger ones that qualify because the builds simply aren't good.

    It's always funny when people add extra stipulations when the results are not in their favor.

    1. I don't recall.

    ...k..

    1. Congratulations you understand what "past tense" means. Yes, mantra mesmers aren't meta. However, they are still effective when played well against high level players.

    In the hands of high level players X build performs great.
    You know what else performs well when played well..
    every class ever.
    Like we could list every top teir player and say " Oh look, he played this so it's effective."
    Cause that's basically what's going to happen.

    1. They've both been represented fairly equally in the MAT finals. It's only possible for Zeromis to play one or the other.

    So one person is playing mirage still..
    Ok....see statement above.
    And again..EU.. No mirages in MAT finals.

    1. Yes and no. I'm on my phone and my computer. As I said, your formatting is really spacey. I have to scroll up and down a lot to read your posts because you have quotes in between each one of your responses.

    .....k....

    Like it's all good to compare and stuff..
    That doesn't address the issue NOW of Soulbeast one button globalling people.
    When other classes have had nerfs for doing the same.

    As you said. You don't like the spec.
    I personally don't care for it.
    But I want to see consistency in the way things are balanced.
    If one class is nerfed ( in this case a a few) through core and elite specs to deal with a problem. I see no reason why another class is automatically exempt from the same treatment.
    (and the whataboutism comparing a class at it's prime as reasons why another shouldn't be nerfed is balderdash)

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    @verskore.4312 said:
    it's called 'being aware of your surroundings', if i know there's a pew pew soulbeast in the enemy team ill make sure i know where he is and i also make sure i have access to LoS if need be.
    I also dont see it 'overperforming' in '90%' of the game, most games have 1-2 soulbeasts and I barely ever see 3-4 in 1 game so what you're saying is just false.

    You don't play ranked much, I can tell.

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd
    I don't care
    SnIpEr iS a RoLe
    I don't care
    It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt
    I don't care

    You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025

    Hey I feel like I'm wasting my time going back and forth. I didn't read your last post.

    All I'm saying is that I don't enjoy using/fighting against SE OWP SLBs any more than you guys do albeit for different reasons. I couldn't care less if they were both removed from the game because I never use them.

    I've always disliked one-shots from stealth because fights against those specs are mostly predictive instead of reactive. So, hopefully builds like that all get addressed at the same time. As I've suggested before, maybe removing Berserker Amulet from PvP would help alleviate the problem.

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @Solori.6025

    Hey I feel like I'm wasting my time going back and forth. I didn't read your last post.

    All I'm saying is that I don't enjoy using/fighting against SE OWP SLBs any more than you guys do albeit for different reasons. I couldn't care less if they were both removed from the game because I never use them.

    I've always disliked one-shots from stealth because fights against those specs are mostly predictive instead of reactive. So, hopefully builds like that all get addressed at the same time. As I've suggested before, maybe removing Berserker Amulet from PvP would help alleviate the problem.

    Sorry you feel that way.
    It's good to see your stance on that.
    My entire point is.
    You do for one- you do for all.
    No one class should ever be exempt from being treated like every other class.
    It sets a bad precedent, and will cause people to lose faith in the integrity of the team that balances.

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd
    I don't care
    SnIpEr iS a RoLe
    I don't care
    It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt
    I don't care

    You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

    I also stated why those reasons are invalid, but I suppose you ignored that.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

    In case you missed it, many of us here are also calling for Engies and Warriors (SB, Rampage) to be reigned in. Basically any still power-crept spec that's an outlier from the majority. And also in case you missed it, Mesmers already had their turn with the chopping board. It lasted over a year and gutted them anywhere from 50-67% across multiple traits, weapons, and skills, up and down both elites and core.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd
    I don't care
    SnIpEr iS a RoLe
    I don't care
    It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt
    I don't care

    You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

    I also stated why those reasons are invalid, but I suppose you ignored that.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

    In case you missed it, many of us here are also calling for Engies and Warriors (SB, Rampage) to be reigned in. Basically any still power-crept spec that's an outlier from the majority. And also in case you missed it, Mesmers already had their turn with the chopping board. It lasted over a year and gutted them anywhere from 50-67% across multiple traits, weapons, and skills, up and down both elites and core.

    Yes..as a part-time ranger main with over 2k hours I am all for nerfing Sic'em but at the same time I really need engies and warriors to be reigned in as soon as possible , I mainly play ranger to stand a chance against overtuned engies and wars...with everything else I can even use an ele

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd
    I don't care
    SnIpEr iS a RoLe
    I don't care
    It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt
    I don't care

    You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

    I also stated why those reasons are invalid, but I suppose you ignored that.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

    In case you missed it, many of us here are also calling for Engies and Warriors (SB, Rampage) to be reigned in. Basically any still power-crept spec that's an outlier from the majority. And also in case you missed it, Mesmers already had their turn with the chopping board. It lasted over a year and gutted them anywhere from 50-67% across multiple traits, weapons, and skills, up and down both elites and core.

    Yes..as a part-time ranger main with over 2k hours I am all for nerfing Sic'em but at the same time I really need engies and warriors to be reigned in as soon as possible , I mainly play ranger to stand a chance against overtuned engies and wars...with everything else I can even use an ele

    Then I think we're on the same page. :smile:

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

    @bOTEB.1573 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    LOS iS yOuR fRiEnd
    I don't care
    SnIpEr iS a RoLe
    I don't care
    It'S nOt EvEn UsEd aT ToP LeVeL/mAt
    I don't care

    You just stated some of the reasons why SLB is in its current position, yet you don't respect these arguments. Remind me of my daughter that wanted a pony couple of years ago - really sweet kid ;)

    I also stated why those reasons are invalid, but I suppose you ignored that.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    So soulbeast mains don't think the class is overtuned? Who thinks it is overtuned?

    People playing another overtuned class like mesmers . engies , warriors..pick your poison...but all they share in common is that they're deluded...their own class should be on the chopping board along with soulbeast

    In case you missed it, many of us here are also calling for Engies and Warriors (SB, Rampage) to be reigned in. Basically any still power-crept spec that's an outlier from the majority. And also in case you missed it, Mesmers already had their turn with the chopping board. It lasted over a year and gutted them anywhere from 50-67% across multiple traits, weapons, and skills, up and down both elites and core.

    Yes..as a part-time ranger main with over 2k hours I am all for nerfing Sic'em but at the same time I really need engies and warriors to be reigned in as soon as possible , I mainly play ranger to stand a chance against overtuned engies and wars...with everything else I can even use an ele

    Then I think we're on the same page. :smile:

    I wonder about that in truth...despite all these "nerfs" , the mesmer class itself it's still up there with the "gods"...not primordial god..but a god nevertheless, the nerfs mesmer received were not aimed to kill the class

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • bOTEB.1573bOTEB.1573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    SLB will not get any nerfs, however, he can get some buffs. You know this, ANET know it. It is pointless to ask for nerfs of underperforming spec. Sry, not going to happen ;)

    Wishlist:
    Everything that kills me should be nerfed
    Remove all time gates - I play more than some people yet I receive the same rewards per day/week (PvP/WvW tickets etc)
    ANET developments/events and everything else should be in a schedule with the time I play

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