Snowcrows Power Holo Benchmark (31k DPS)

Looks like ECSU is the new meta for holo.

However, the ranking shows it really low on the totem pole. Condi engi doesn't even show until about halfway down the list. Power holo shows about 3/4 of the way down. Ranger and Necro also seem to be in the pit with us.

But booooiiiii look at elementalist numbers.

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

A little disingeneous when condi holo is at 33.5K and almost reaches the top 10 (almost, its at 12th spot).

Scrapper nowhere to be seen though, lol.

Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

It's more like swapping to dh/weaver/DD is the new meta for Holo. Sword doesn't perform that well on actual bosses especially the escu variant. Prestacking heat without it staying at a certain point is total cancer and well, sword is still super clunky to play, requiring you to stay inside the hitbox.Burst is also quite low for a power build, hell even codi weaver has insane burst now. This build needs like a straight 20% dps buff to be competetive. Playing power holo in raids is just trolling at this point. Every decent banner warr will outdps you hard.

I would also like something else than rifle turret to work good with sword or an actual offhand thats power based. Spellbreaker got dual daggers for example, why can't holo get a 2nd spec weapon or even a core power offhand.This build has a very high skillcap and huge risk but doesn't reward you with anything for it.

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

They've always whined the loudest, and blown every nerf out of proportion as the thing that "kills" chrono.

For Chronomancers, that's hilarious because that those numbers are based against a stationary dummy target that doesn't fight back.If these numbers were based on PvP dps, chrono wouldn't be able to push past 5k dps without being steamrolled by any other profession.Sure chrono can push good high numbers, but look at what it's fighting against.Theory dps is not the same as dps in practice.

Edit: the same goes for Holo btw.. Those are the highest potential numbers based on full team support. Good luck getting those numbers outside of raids and fractals and most metas.

@Genesis.7864 said:For Chronomancers, that's hilarious because that those numbers are based against a stationary dummy target that doesn't fight back.If these numbers were based on PvP dps, chrono wouldn't be able to push past 5k dps without being steamrolled by any other profession.Sure chrono can push good high numbers, but look at what it's fighting against.Theory dps is not the same as dps in practice.

Edit: the same goes for Holo btw.. Those are the highest potential numbers based on full team support. Good luck getting those numbers outside of raids and fractals and most metas.

sword holo wouldnt reach 2k dps because he cant stick to a target at all. Why is pvp dps relevant here again?

Remember this is raid meta, and yes holo is underperforming in that area and should get buff .

You can swap Holo with engi as a whole. Its worse than necro in raids.

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Genesis.7864 said:For Chronomancers, that's hilarious because that those numbers are based against a stationary dummy target that doesn't fight back.If these numbers were based on PvP dps, chrono wouldn't be able to push past 5k dps without being steamrolled by any other profession.Sure chrono can push good high numbers, but look at what it's fighting against.Theory dps is not the same as dps in practice.

Edit: the same goes for Holo btw.. Those are the highest potential numbers based on full team support. Good luck getting those numbers outside of raids and fractals and most metas.

PvP dps is just as relevant as solo pve, WvW and anything else.If it's in the game: it's relevant.

If we're on this path and not going back: anet may as well just nerf every elite spec into the ground and either drive the entire community to using core specs (back to pre-HoT) or away from this game entirely.

The important thing to note is that he alternates between 75 and 145 heat. Those are the real thresholds to watch out for.

If you follow the links in the description of the video, there's a 30k PBM build. It uses elixir gun instead of rifle turret, and uses the acid bomb trick every time it is off cooldown. Particularly, at around 50% heat, which is when it goes off cooldown again.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

Well, apart from PvP and still staying within the realm of high end PvE, what people do thoroughly enjoy is ignoring the fact how those high chrono numbers you speak of are only achievable under perma slow, only really being maintained in organised raid comps.

Once you take out the slow, and because the chrono build that deals that sort of dmg doesn’t apply much or any slow at all, that supposedly high number shoots straight down to the 29k range. Which btw is worse than ~31k. If there’s slow (like in raids), sure fine whatever - otherwise, no-slow chrono has been nerfed repetitively for some time for no reason, to the point where core (and to an extent power mirage) is actually hands down better at casual open world/high-end PvE.

Don’t just glance over the numbers posted on the SC website, I’ve found that it leaves out a lot of significant build-defining details (cleave, sustained dps, trash burst, etc.) and that it’s purely raid oriented. Just because chrono looks like it’s up there, doesn’t mean it’s like that throughout all of PvE or the entire game.

Besides, I’ve been sitting on sub 31k for a while now, so I can say that I can feel for power dps holos right now.

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

Scrappers are in the same boat. Except instead of Slow, it is stability and superspeed. Though there's something Noodle Ant is neglecting to mention: You only take the damage on slow trait if you're ina comp that's going to give out slow. If you're not in such a comp, you take Improved Alacrity instead. This significantly reduces the cooldown of all skills, increasing DPS.

On snowcrows, that's optimal performance with 25 might, alacrity and quickness. Throw your holo in a fractal group with a bunch of pugs or even open world solo and I guarantee you won't come close to those numbers.This same logic applies to chrono. So all you people who think these classes are all fine and dandy, quick slapping that raid training golem and actually fight real mobs without those perma boons.Play holo with PBM. Feel how it hits mobs like a wet noodle.Play chrono too while you're at it and feel how it resembles running a marathon in stilts. It's the absolute definition of clunky. Going from core spec to elite spec doesn't feel like a trade-off. It feels like a handicap.

@Genesis.7864 said:For Chronomancers, that's hilarious because that those numbers are based against a stationary dummy target that doesn't fight back.If these numbers were based on PvP dps, chrono wouldn't be able to push past 5k dps without being steamrolled by any other profession.Sure chrono can push good high numbers, but look at what it's fighting against.Theory dps is not the same as dps in practice.

Edit: the same goes for Holo btw.. Those are the highest potential numbers based on full team support. Good luck getting those numbers outside of raids and fractals and most metas.

Those numbers are made by a site/group thats dedicated to raiding not to WvW or Pvp....

@Dawdler.8521 said:Well, what does scrapper do in comparison to that 29K then?

It reached 26k somehow pre-patch. If it now does less, then my condolences further extends to scrapper then. Except some ppl I discussed with didn’t believe in scrapper dps pre patch, so it I guess it didn’t hurt as much?

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:Though there's something Noodle Ant is neglecting to mention: You only take the damage on slow trait if you're ina comp that's going to give out slow. If you're not in such a comp, you take Improved Alacrity instead. This significantly reduces the cooldown of all skills, increasing DPS.

Should honestly take this to the mes forum. I’m trying to be reasonable here - without Danger Time, no slow chronos perform at ~83.33% of their DT variants (use the lowest number shown in the 20% intervals because this is actually closer to the true average). Drop another 1-1.5k since F1 does 33% less dmg. Improved Alacrity is a universal ~12% skill recharge (under perma alacrity) but on chrono it’s really less than a 1k increase.

Either way, it’s technically impossible for no slow to bench at or over 31k since it benched at 33k many patches ago (last year), add in the random nerfs here and there then you’ll see how I’m getting my projected numbers. Unless you can bench otherwise.

Edit: reply in this thread {https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/82828/pve-power-mes-unlisted-benchmarks#latest}

@Genesis.7864 said:On snowcrows, that's optimal performance with 25 might, alacrity and quickness. Throw your holo in a fractal group with a bunch of pugs or even open world solo and I guarantee you won't come close to those numbers.

Every t4 pug tries to achieve 25might, fury, quickness and alacrity nowadays.Mes doesn't even need others for that because it self buffs so good. I don't think that playing chrono is clunky at all, it's still one of the best builds to solo dungeons/fractals on. The change into requiring slow could have been made differently though. Maybe power chrono could apply slow itself to some extent with a pve trait that would suck in pvp. Well slow becomes a non issue if a condi dmg + concentration + expertise set comes out. Alac ren would be so broken.

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Genesis.7864 said:On snowcrows, that's optimal performance with 25 might, alacrity and quickness. Throw your holo in a fractal group with a bunch of pugs or even open world solo and I guarantee you won't come close to those numbers.

That's funny because without all the permanent self-buffs given by the console in the raid training area: my dps is higher on Core Mesmer than it is on Chrono. For the life of me I can't get my Chrono dps higher unless I use the permanent 25 might, alacrity and quickness as well as slow on the Golem.Without those, core mesmer outperforms chrono and this really irks me.

I can solo better on core mesmer than I can with chrono because core mesmer at least has IP, which condi clears gives aegis and heals. Plus it has 4 second distortion which is on a 50 second cooldown and not backed behind CS which is always 1 second distortion backed behind 105 second CD.

At the moment I am really enjoying Core Mesmer in open world and for soloing.Chrono for T4s.. Eh, I think I'll take FB instead because core mesmer doesn't offer much to the group outside of maybe some boons through its Mantras or Feedback perhaps. But any other profession can take over that role and do it better.

Anyways, we're getting off topic here. This is about how holosmith has piss-poor benchmarked DPS and being outperformed by nearly every other spec.Either bring down the other e-specs or revert these last changes until better changes can be implemented. Holosmith shouldn't have to suffer this bad.

@Genesis.7864 said:

That's funny because without all the permanent self-buffs given by the console in the raid training area: my dps is higher on Core Mesmer than it is on Chrono. For the life of me I can't get my Chrono dps higher unless I use the permanent 25 might, alacrity and quickness as well as slow on the Golem.Without those, core mesmer outperforms chrono and this really irks me.

Eh you know that chrono can give itself perma 25might right? I get 24k+ dps solo on the 1mill golem. Almost every dungeon endboss has just 1.3 mill.

Holo wont see changes until next balance patch and even that is questionable. Just look at mirage. That build is op since forever. It took them like 3 years to fix reaper.

SC site hasn't been updated yet with raid viability. Benchmarks don't reflect actual raid encounters. Power holo will probably only be rated "good" for dps golem raid bosses and "mediocre" for everything else. I'm gearing up my DH.

Edit: Site was finally updated not long after I posted!

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

Yes, because damage is clearly the one and only thing that matters for class to be fun to play. Silly people, huh?

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

When it comes to raids and high-end content, yes.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

With that logic, every class with top dps, no matter how simple and boring rotation it has, is the most fun class to play.

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

And for many people I am sure this is true.

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@serialkicker.5274 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@"Dawdler.8521" said:Also I find the loud chrono complaints a little interesting when they are near the top of the chart.

Eh some people sign up to be a walking DPS number, it's their right.