A patch in review <July 2019> — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A patch in review <July 2019>

saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

Hello all,

I’m going to write up my review of the recent patch from the perspective of a condi-Hybrid thief player who has run P/D for a very long time. Obviously, there are quite a few other builds out there but I wanted to share some insights specific to my build as it is developing post-patch.

First, let me stress how important the new Smoke Screen is. Any build with either Leaps or Blasts can use this field for Stealth. Shortbow is especially powerful in this context by providing AoE stealth on Cluster Bomb. Any thief with Shadow Arts and Smoke Screen can achieve significant AoE stealth uptime.

Shadow Arts review:

  • In the adapt tier the trade off between stealth on steal with the deception cooldown and Shadow’s Embrace is harsh. Thief doesn’t have that much condi cleanse so the trade off hurts more than other trade offs might be. Deception cooldown might be better to just increase the uses of HiS to reach a decent degree of condi cleanse and utility.
  • Leeching Venoms could be better. The extra stacks of venom from this could occur faster. I think the observation that one stack at the outset of gaining stealth could be more appropriate. This appears to be balanced around staying in stealth for the full duration to get six stacks, that is a full 18+ seconds. That’s possible with Smoke Screen and Cluster Bomb but that’s a long time just to get an extra 6k poison damage over 10 seconds.
  • Rending Shade: this one is...pretty ok. The extra fear is nice and there is a mix of defense and offense possible with using this trait. But, and this is important: the trait should trigger at the target. Sometimes I need fear at at a specific point and that point should be where I hit and not just a clunky AoE around me.

A few other points:

  • Short bow can blast Smoke Screen from a fair distance. You don’t need to be standing in the circle to stack stealth.
  • Leeching Venoms (once it stacks venoms to 4+) is decent. But this is balanced around having those stacks so you need to be stacking stealth between fights to make this trait worth taking. If you aren’t able to permastealth or close to it then you shouldn’t take this trait.
  • When fighting CI Mirage you can try to burst and then disengage. Build up venom stacks in stealth and then do another burst. This degree of condi will help down the Mirage and give you a fighting chance 1v1.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Deadeye (Thief)
Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

Comments

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    Have you tried the Deadly Arts changes and preparations yet? Preparations seem pretty good for point control. At least imho.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    Have you tried the Deadly Arts changes and preparations yet? Preparations seem pretty good for point control. At least imho.

    Seal Area is good. But having a combo field is better at least 1v1.

    Deadly Arts changes are positive overall.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    Have you tried the Deadly Arts changes and preparations yet? Preparations seem pretty good for point control. At least imho.

    Seal Area is good. But having a combo field is better at least 1v1.

    Deadly Arts changes are positive overall.

    It doesn't state it but Seal Area is a dark field btw.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    @saerni.2584 said:
    Shadow Arts review:

    • In the adapt tier the trade off between stealth on steal with the deception cooldown and Shadow’s Embrace is harsh. Thief doesn’t have that much condi cleanse so the trade off hurts more than other trade offs might be. Deception cooldown might be better to just increase the uses of HiS to reach a decent degree of condi cleanse and utility.

    i personally like all 3 of the adept traits for my build.

    • merciful ambush is extremely strong in a little chaotic group fights wich can happen alot in WvW and it was always free prior to the patch now the tradeoff isnt worth it for me, yet the trait itself is still awesome.
    • shadows embrace obviously still the best condicleanse we have
    • and hidden thief i do 'need' for most of the PvE parts of WvW and is usefull in fights too as i need frequent stealth access to cheese my crit chance.

    overall i decided to pick hidden thief and replace withdrawl with HiS for condi cleanse. the extra dodge+gap opener/closer from withdrawl does hurt a bit and HiS is technically way worse than shadows embrace but aside from Jugglemonkey noone has dropped me below 50% with condis yet since the patch. the additonal on kill resetting access to stealth is a little bit more important tho, i can plan aroun the other drawbacks.

    • Leeching Venoms could be better. The extra stacks of venom from this could occur faster. I think the observation that one stack at the outset of gaining stealth could be more appropriate. This appears to be balanced around staying in stealth for the full duration to get six stacks, that is a full 18+ seconds. That’s possible with Smoke Screen and Cluster Bomb but that’s a long time just to get an extra 6k poison damage over 10 seconds.

    those middle traits to wich leeching venoms does count, i dont really feel the need for any of em. on a power build without healing power the heal from shadowsteps is not really worth it for me and leeching venoms just doesnt do enough damage and need to stack stealth too long for it.
    i usually run with flickering shadow here for lack of better alternative at least it more than counters sic em and the way i play i often am revealed or stealthed so it probably adds the most.

    • Rending Shade: this one is...pretty ok. The extra fear is nice and there is a mix of defense and offense possible with using this trait. But, and this is important: the trait should trigger at the target. Sometimes I need fear at at a specific point and that point should be where I hit and not just a clunky AoE around me.

    the grandmaster traits..

    • CiS is super underwhelming IMO i dont see a reason to use it. maybe on some nonviable d/d thief for the blind, but overall its not too good of a choice. good that the removed the crit immunity, but its just not worth a grandmasterslot like this.
    • rending shade i agree with you that the fear would be better cast around the target and as always i would like the boonrip to happen before the damage, the life steal from the minor is before the stealth attack damage so it is possible to put the rending shade effect there too. ( might also turn the target fast enough for a frontstab to become a backstab on a boonless target)
    • shadows rejuv, well same old no changes.

    here i go for shadows rejuv because more resources are always good, i would pick rending shade if the boonrip was before the hit. but as i often use a stealth attack as finisher and not as an opener, i dont have too much of a use for a boonrip after the hit.

    optimally i would like flickering shadow to be swapped with hidden thief. flickering shadow being more a defense against power vs shadows embrace a defense against condi seems to me still a decent choice and ofc rending shade applied before the stealth attack damage. then i would be happy with that traitline.

    as for the preparations, i only really used shadow portal wich is alot of fun and i wouldnt be suprised if they reduced the ally size to 1 in WvW too (not that it would change anything as you could still let a mesmer use it) obviously the bug that it gets destroyed upon opening it needs fixing and it would be nice to be able to cross water without losing the portal.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    Have you tried the Deadly Arts changes and preparations yet? Preparations seem pretty good for point control. At least imho.

    Seal Area is good. But having a combo field is better at least 1v1.

    Deadly Arts changes are positive overall.

    It doesn't state it but Seal Area is a dark field btw.

    Interesting. I’d still prefer a smoke field but that’s obviously a build specific choice.

    I’d like to play around with the new Merciful trait using Smoke Screen and blasts to AoE stealth and help res. But I’m constrained by wanting more stealth and the cooldown reduction.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2019

    Just as a note to other changes and while I am testing my condition p/d , I find that if one goes the trickery route there now a bigger payoff from uncatchable. One reason I did not like the old as much in p/d is dodges often happened at range as I used shadowstrike a lot more to break contact so as to get that torment on. (also I reason i never really favored impaling lotus here out of DD). Uncatchable just gives it enough of a nudge with the add of the reduced damage on fall. This noticeable when I do dodge and forget about my surroundings so as to dodge off a wall or some such.

    In the SA line I am finding the new deception trait with hidden thief well worth it as that HIS cleanse is often all you need. If of particular benefit if one goes core and drops out of the DE or DD specs.

    The added heals from the SA line are subtle but add up over the course of a fight. I am having better success in this regard with my ability to remain in a fight. Siphoning + rejuv +savior along with the torment runes really gives a nice chunk of heals allowing you to save your HIS for a cleanse focus.The thing with these types of heals is that on their own they do not look like much . It is when then combined together that you get the greates bang for the buck.

    Right now I am bouncing between Core (DA/SA/TR) and the DE spec (DA/SA/DD). I really did not use Acro a lot in my older versions but am going to look at that as well . (Swiftness/regen the cleanses and assassins reward all intrigue.)

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    Have you tried the Deadly Arts changes and preparations yet? Preparations seem pretty good for point control. At least imho.

    Seal Area is good. But having a combo field is better at least 1v1.

    Deadly Arts changes are positive overall.

    It doesn't state it but Seal Area is a dark field btw.

    Yes. This works quite well in my D/D Condition build that uses shamans/apothecary armor combination. With SOM running if you seal the area for the Dblossoms , heals go noticeably up.

  • omgdracula.6345omgdracula.6345 Member ✭✭✭

    In your opinion what thief builds are usable in the current meta? Is there anything besides Core S/D?

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My build? Seems pretty usable from what I can tell. I can’t speak to other builds being viable but I think a fair number with the new utilities might contend for viability.

    I spent a while working on refining my gameplay so I’ll try to record something “soon” now that I’m almost adjusted.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    overall i decided to pick hidden thief and replace withdrawl with HiS for condi cleanse. the extra dodge+gap opener/closer from withdrawl does hurt a bit and HiS is technically way worse than shadows embrace but aside from Jugglemonkey noone has dropped me below 50% with condis yet since the patch. the additonal on kill resetting access to stealth is a little bit more important tho, i can plan aroun the other drawbacks.

    Not sure if that's me you're thinking of, I've not played condi since the patch and only for one night or so since the swipe change, just to test the range etc. I enjoyed traps so while the preparations are very cool, it also means the death of my condi build, and I've not gotten around to making a new build that's functional yet. If it was indeed me, I'm sorry I didn't notice that was you ^^

    Edit; By the way, I'm 90% sure that rending shade does steal boons before damage is applied. I've been using DJ point blank for the fear and quickness proc from celerity to get a full malice shot off then quickly restack malice, and it's pretty good.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2019

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:
    overall i decided to pick hidden thief and replace withdrawl with HiS for condi cleanse. the extra dodge+gap opener/closer from withdrawl does hurt a bit and HiS is technically way worse than shadows embrace but aside from Jugglemonkey noone has dropped me below 50% with condis yet since the patch. the additonal on kill resetting access to stealth is a little bit more important tho, i can plan aroun the other drawbacks.

    Not sure if that's me you're thinking of, I've not played condi since the patch and only for one night or so since the swipe change, just to test the range etc. I enjoyed traps so while the preparations are very cool, it also means the death of my condi build, and I've not gotten around to making a new build that's functional yet. If it was indeed me, I'm sorry I didn't notice that was you ^^

    Edit; By the way, I'm 90% sure that rending shade does steal boons before damage is applied. I've been using DJ point blank for the fear and quickness proc from celerity to get a full malice shot off then quickly restack malice, and it's pretty good.

    By way of personal example, I was finally able to involve myself in a large number of 1v1's 1v2's and 1v3s in WvW over the past few days. I too used traps in the old build and wondered how this would impact my own p/d condition build.

    I can state that from personal experience my survival and duel capabilities went up noticeably. I was focusing on p/d core (DA/TR/SA). The preparations used leaned towards one of Portal (which I would laod and unload with regularity dependent on need) , Thousand needles , Pitfall either singly or in combination (Never all at once). Pitfall can be suprisingly effective in setting up a "bomb".

    The more significant changes , all of which I see as enhancements, were the changes to the traits . Deadly ambition with the patch fix I find more reliable then my old trappers respite. I am a fan of Even the odds over Panic strike and am loving the trio of Rending shade/hidden thief and shadow savior.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even the Odds is a great combination of bonus from might and extra damage from vuln.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Gatvin.6510Gatvin.6510 Member ✭✭

    All in all I'm super happy with this patch. Thief traps were basically unplayable, and thief in general lacks team utility. This patch addresses both. The smokescreen buff is also huge, bringing it in line with basically every other class's anti-projectile skill, and giving thief a usable smoke-field independent of weaponset. I'm also happy that core builds across all classes have been getting attention and not just elites. I'm sure there will be nerfs and buffs down the road as things settle, but the overall direction of this patch was fantastic. I felt good enough about this patch to buy gems.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Stealth on Heal with Trickster and Withdraw is the best condition cleanse out there.
    Flickering Shadow is just awesome.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    The Stealth on Heal with Trickster and Withdraw is the best condition cleanse out there.
    Flickering Shadow is just awesome.

    I would not use mysefl as it overkill but I always like to theorycraft things like the maximum number of cleanses from a single heal.

    Trait Trickster
    Trait Escapists absolution
    Trait Withdraw
    Anti-toxin runes
    Use food that removes Condition on heal
    Stealth on heal
    Shadows embrace

    Maximum possible condition cleanse in a little under 14 seconds.

    4 from Withdraw base , 1 from on heal food. 1 from Trickster add. 1 possible if an evade occurs (ea) 1 extra from Anti toxin. 1 from the stealth on heal with SE.

    9 cleanses every 14.5 seconds potential. Condition mesmer should not be able to touch you.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:
    The Stealth on Heal with Trickster and Withdraw is the best condition cleanse out there.
    Flickering Shadow is just awesome.

    I would not use mysefl as it overkill but I always like to theorycraft things like the maximum number of cleanses from a single heal.

    Trait Trickster
    Trait Escapists absolution
    Trait Withdraw
    Anti-toxin runes
    Use food that removes Condition on heal
    Stealth on heal
    Shadows embrace

    Maximum possible condition cleanse in a little under 14 seconds.

    4 from Withdraw base , 1 from on heal food. 1 from Trickster add. 1 possible if an evade occurs (ea) 1 extra from Anti toxin. 1 from the stealth on heal with SE.

    9 cleanses every 14.5 seconds potential. Condition mesmer should not be able to touch you.

    lol that is overkill. 14.5s cleanse is already really good without that stealth and even better with stealth.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    Maximum possible condition cleanse in a little under 14 seconds.
    4 from Withdraw base , 1 from on heal food. 1 from Trickster add. 1 possible if an evade occurs (ea) 1 extra from Anti toxin. 1 from the stealth on heal with SE.
    9 cleanses every 14.5 seconds potential. Condition mesmer should not be able to touch you.

    are you sure antitoxin will only trigger once?

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    Maximum possible condition cleanse in a little under 14 seconds.
    4 from Withdraw base , 1 from on heal food. 1 from Trickster add. 1 possible if an evade occurs (ea) 1 extra from Anti toxin. 1 from the stealth on heal with SE.
    9 cleanses every 14.5 seconds potential. Condition mesmer should not be able to touch you.

    are you sure antitoxin will only trigger once?

    I am not so clear on that myself and in fact after the post was wondering about it. It something I have never tested. :)

    Again, as stated , this overkill but shows the potential of using traits. Pick out the ones you need and you can still make a single use of withdraw a nice condition cleanse that can deal with most situations in game. Couple that with your other abilities to evade those attacks in the first place and thief should really not have too many issues with conditions.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is so many condi builds floating around atm I've had to resort to this nomad/antitoxin lol, works quite nice I might add.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:
    Maximum possible condition cleanse in a little under 14 seconds.
    4 from Withdraw base , 1 from on heal food. 1 from Trickster add. 1 possible if an evade occurs (ea) 1 extra from Anti toxin. 1 from the stealth on heal with SE.
    9 cleanses every 14.5 seconds potential. Condition mesmer should not be able to touch you.

    are you sure antitoxin will only trigger once?

    I am not so clear on that myself and in fact after the post was wondering about it. It something I have never tested. :)

    Again, as stated , this overkill but shows the potential of using traits. Pick out the ones you need and you can still make a single use of withdraw a nice condition cleanse that can deal with most situations in game. Couple that with your other abilities to evade those attacks in the first place and thief should really not have too many issues with conditions.

    antitoxin removes one additional condition when you remove 1 or more.

    so each traited dodge clears one, two with antitoxin
    traited tricks remove one, two with antitoxin
    signet of agility removes 3 from each target, 4 from each target with antitoxin

    really if you're running condi clear on dodge and antitoxin, you shouldn't need more condition cleansing

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    There is so many condi builds floating around atm I've had to resort to this nomad/antitoxin lol, works quite nice I might add.

    What are you able to kill with Nomads?!?

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @DemonSeed.3528 said:
    There is so many condi builds floating around atm I've had to resort to this nomad/antitoxin lol, works quite nice I might add.

    What are you able to kill with Nomads?!?

    Surprisingly during testing so far, a condi rev lol.
    I might add that I'm not really trying to kill anything, just tie people up or contest camps. People still die it seems.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All in all , outside the two traits leeching venoms and Cloaked in Shadow, this has been one of the best all around patches for the thief in a long while in my opinion. A lot of builds, core and elite both were enhanced or made more playable.

    Leeching Venoms needs a tweak up as it almost counterproductive to take it. Stacking stealth to get more stacks of venom means you need more utility stealth and one might as well take the Spider venom if going that route.

    Cloaked in Shadows, I am not sure how I would use that in a build. I do think the leech has to be higher.

    The rest are fine and the new prepartions well done. It took a while to get a grip on the arm time but I am ok with that now.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’d say if you use Smoke Screen you can make Leeching Venoms work. If you don’t then Spider Venom is probably a better utility choice for the slot.

    Shadow Refuge is nice but the cooldown isn’t as good and you are better off using combos on Smoke Screen to enhance your stealth duration.

    But it should pulse initially upon entering stealth. That wouldn’t be too op but would make it more usable.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’d say if you use Smoke Screen you can make Leeching Venoms work. If you don’t then Spider Venom is probably a better utility choice for the slot.

    Shadow Refuge is nice but the cooldown isn’t as good and you are better off using combos on Smoke Screen to enhance your stealth duration.

    But it should pulse initially upon entering stealth. That wouldn’t be too op but would make it more usable.

    Leeching is useless IMO. You do no damage staying in stealth. You'd do better if you simply take Deadly Ambition.

    In my hybrid build, I take Deadly Ambition, Revealed Training, Potent Poison from DA and Flickering Shadow from SA. This gives my attacks poison while I deal more damage and take less damage while Revealed. I only use stealth so I can have Revealed on, which is more productive overall.

    This build free up a trait slot and a utility slot since I don't need Leeching or Spider. For the same cooldown, 1k Needles is way better than Spider Venom -- better poison duration and the CC ensures that they will take the full dose of the Prep.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’d say if you use Smoke Screen you can make Leeching Venoms work. If you don’t then Spider Venom is probably a better utility choice for the slot.

    Shadow Refuge is nice but the cooldown isn’t as good and you are better off using combos on Smoke Screen to enhance your stealth duration.

    But it should pulse initially upon entering stealth. That wouldn’t be too op but would make it more usable.

    Leeching is useless IMO. You do no damage staying in stealth. You'd do better if you simply take Deadly Ambition.

    In my hybrid build, I take Deadly Ambition, Revealed Training, Potent Poison from DA and Flickering Shadow from SA. This gives my attacks poison while I deal more damage and take less damage while Revealed. I only use stealth so I can have Revealed on, which is more productive overall.

    This build free up a trait slot and a utility slot since I don't need Leeching or Spider. For the same cooldown, 1k Needles is way better than Spider Venom -- better poison duration and the CC ensures that they will take the full dose of the Prep.

    If Leeching Venoms gave a single stack ON stealth it would be much better and have great synergy with Hidden Thief without being broken, in my opinion.

    I really like the Prep's, but all but portal are extremely situational to me. I'm sure in more static/predictable environments like PvP or PvE they're better, but in WvW I seem to waste as many as I actually hit just because the enemy(ies) have so many movement options.

  • Sir Vincent III.1286Sir Vincent III.1286 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’d say if you use Smoke Screen you can make Leeching Venoms work. If you don’t then Spider Venom is probably a better utility choice for the slot.

    Shadow Refuge is nice but the cooldown isn’t as good and you are better off using combos on Smoke Screen to enhance your stealth duration.

    But it should pulse initially upon entering stealth. That wouldn’t be too op but would make it more usable.

    Leeching is useless IMO. You do no damage staying in stealth. You'd do better if you simply take Deadly Ambition.

    In my hybrid build, I take Deadly Ambition, Revealed Training, Potent Poison from DA and Flickering Shadow from SA. This gives my attacks poison while I deal more damage and take less damage while Revealed. I only use stealth so I can have Revealed on, which is more productive overall.

    This build free up a trait slot and a utility slot since I don't need Leeching or Spider. For the same cooldown, 1k Needles is way better than Spider Venom -- better poison duration and the CC ensures that they will take the full dose of the Prep.

    If Leeching Venoms gave a single stack ON stealth it would be much better and have great synergy with Hidden Thief without being broken, in my opinion.

    I really like the Prep's, but all but portal are extremely situational to me. I'm sure in more static/predictable environments like PvP or PvE they're better, but in WvW I seem to waste as many as I actually hit just because the enemy(ies) have so many movement options.

    Scorpion Wire ;)

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I’d say if you use Smoke Screen you can make Leeching Venoms work. If you don’t then Spider Venom is probably a better utility choice for the slot.

    Shadow Refuge is nice but the cooldown isn’t as good and you are better off using combos on Smoke Screen to enhance your stealth duration.

    But it should pulse initially upon entering stealth. That wouldn’t be too op but would make it more usable.

    Leeching is useless IMO. You do no damage staying in stealth. You'd do better if you simply take Deadly Ambition.

    In my hybrid build, I take Deadly Ambition, Revealed Training, Potent Poison from DA and Flickering Shadow from SA. This gives my attacks poison while I deal more damage and take less damage while Revealed. I only use stealth so I can have Revealed on, which is more productive overall.

    This build free up a trait slot and a utility slot since I don't need Leeching or Spider. For the same cooldown, 1k Needles is way better than Spider Venom -- better poison duration and the CC ensures that they will take the full dose of the Prep.

    If Leeching Venoms gave a single stack ON stealth it would be much better and have great synergy with Hidden Thief without being broken, in my opinion.

    I really like the Prep's, but all but portal are extremely situational to me. I'm sure in more static/predictable environments like PvP or PvE they're better, but in WvW I seem to waste as many as I actually hit just because the enemy(ies) have so many movement options.

    Scorpion Wire ;)

    Indeed, there's a lot of competition for utility slots these days though!

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