Hello balance team, I think u forgot some stuff

So first of all hello,

The recent "nerfs" on certain classes has been nice, as i personally hate the current amount of powercreep, corruption and cleansing going around. I had still hoped you would've nerfed most of the meta classes/builds we use in wvw zergplay a lot more still though. I hope we one day get a good balance of power-creeping, corruptions, cleansing and sustain in general in WvW.

So to kick it off, I hope you guys will look into Rune of the Tropper (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trooper), because this rune can easily become the new anti-toxin rune which u just recently changed (a very good change which was needed).I also hope you guys can take a relook at Rune of the Monk (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Monk) cause it really makes scrappers healing output even more insane with how low the cds (cooldowns) are on scrappers support kit.

I also believe a lot of players will tell u to look into scourges big shades and the recent target cap u guys changed to 10, I've got to say if u guys had a plan on nerfing scourge as you made it sound in the patch notes, I have to unfortunately tell u that the recent change was anything from a nerf from what I and others have experienced the last couple days. Like how is it balanced when 5 scourges can hit 50 players, I believe you guys are underestimating the amount of dmg a organized spike can do. I hope you guys can also look into the amount of corruptions scourges can now do, as you guys buffed the amount with the recent patch.

You guys should also still look into fb (firebrand), as it seriously still needs nerfs on the boon output. To give you guys some ideas, I would say look into the mantras, tomes and mace weapon. I know u recently nerfed it but it's still very strong as you didn't really nerf the core things that makes it the strongest support still. Making the tomes have higher cd's won't help much you guys should instead focus on each skill of the tomes.

The amount of cleanses/conversions a scrapper can do now has fallen by a lot and it was a very good decision by you guys to nerf the anti-toxin rune hard. Now i hope you guys can focus on the amount of healing a scrapper can give to it's allies. If the balance team has not experienced it yet, I need to tell you that scrappers are actually the top healers in WvW. The amount a scrapper can do is so big that FB and tempest can't even compare to it. I hope you guys will look into the Med-kit and its meta support traits.

Now the new warrior with the changed Tactic specialization is interesting but you guys need to be very careful cause at the moment it's pretty strong on heals and cleanses (even more with rune of the trooper). After the recent patch, I and others tried support spellbreaker in several situations (15's, 20's, 30+ and 50's) and I've got to tell you guys the balance team that you powercreeped yet again unfortunately. I hope you look again at the new Tactic traits, warhorn skills and shout utilities.The warrior's Winds of Enchantment should also be looked at again as it cannot be countered/stopped either at the moment, if warriors run defiant stance + balanced stance. Recently if not for a while, the immobile bombs has become more and more popular and that together with an unstoppable winds of enchantment is very unbalanced for the mode.

The recent changes to revenant hammer was nice, I'm glad you guys are hearing when a lot of WvW players tell you that the revenant hammer is very strong. Now the nerf on hammer skill 2 CoR (Coalescence of Ruin) is nice but you guys forgot that CoR is not the only skill that makes revenant hammer VERY strong. You guys also need to look at the skill again btw as it currently bugs with the terrain. You see it's both hammer skill 2 CoR AND hammer skill 3 PS (Phase Smash) that make it so strong. So i hope you guys will look into hammer revenant again. The dmg modifer traits of revenant also need a serious look again from you guys and the the condition output a condition revenant can output also need to be looked at.

Now i'm not telling you guys to kill a whole specialization like you did to chronomancer for instance in WvW, I just hope you guys can reach a point of good balance all around in general in WvW without having to focus on just powercreeping, corruptions, cleansing, sustain.

Now i can say a lot more of things that need a serious relook but i post this with a focus on the recent patch that gave us new stuff to play around with + a few other stuff that needs to be looked at again.Now all I can say is that i hope you guys try to test this stuff more before implementing it officially. You guys could also give WvW players a chance to test a WvW-focused balance so we can give you guys good feedback before you officially implement it.

I've really liked how you guys are trying to focus more on WvW-balance recently and I hope you guys keep it up as new balance patches that try to shift the current meta is always fun and refreshing even though i had hoped for a bigger nerfs/changes :smile:

Could you guys btw also look into making the new Lance ability on Warclaw unblockable, cause of right now guardians have an advantage over all other classes on mount. I get it won't be a HUGE difference as some of the other classes can just teleport 1.2k range right away being lanced but this small change can still help.

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

I use shout runes on my Tempest... please dont nerf Tempest.

No one has complained about Trooper runes for like 5 years. Scrapper, the class you're complaining about, can't use it. The only classes who might take it are tempest and guardian, and they lose a significant amount of outgoing healing to take Trooper runes.

And what do you want to do to hammer rev? Make it completely worthless? It's already completely unused in both PvP and PvE and just got another nerf. Eventually it's just going to be a worse longbow. I don't play hammer but good lord, without its damage what does it actually have? It's slow, clunky, and if the enemy pushes into you, you have absolutely 0 ability to trade blows with them.

@sephiroth.4217

I tested trooper runes on tempest and tested it on warrior support and know how strong it is. It's even a lot stronger on warrior. They can either change how the rune works or rework the cleansing ability on warrior and tempest. Tempest is the top cleanser now as scrapper isn't carried by anti-toxin anyore but even before, tempest was only a bit behind scrapper. We shouldn't be bias around balance, all classes/elite-specs/builds needs balancing need to be balanced.

The rune has a VERY high chance of becoming the new anti-toxin rune and it's already slowly becoming it on warrior.We shoudn't repeat a mistake we just fixed after so long finally...

Supports cleansing ability need to be on par with how much ca. corruption/condi spikes can be put out, one of either shouldn't top the other.

@zaid.2308 said:@sephiroth.4217

I tested trooper runes on tempest and tested it on warrior support and know how strong it is. It's even a lot stronger on warrior. They can either change how the rune works or rework the cleansing ability on warrior and tempest. Tempest is the top cleanser now as scrapper isn't carried by anti-toxin anyore but even before, tempest was only a bit behind scrapper. We shouldn't be bias around balance, all classes/elite-specs/builds needs balancing need to be balanced.

The rune has a VERY high chance of becoming the new anti-toxin rune and it's already slowly becoming it on warrior.We shoudn't repeat a mistake we just fixed after so long finally...

Supports cleansing ability need to be on par with how much ca. corruption/condi spikes can be put out, one of either shouldn't top the other.

Hmmm...

This has been possible for multiple years.

What has changed to make this suddenly dangerous?

Other than Anti Toxin rune getting a nerf.....

I mean, heaven forbid if a class other than FB or scourge have a key role in the Zerg..

@"ventusthunder.5067"

Erm so I encourage you to read what i said again.I never was complaining about scrapper being able to use the trooper runes lol and guardians won't take it. Guardians will still use Monk.I seriously don't know what you are on about. Please dont add anything if you dont have basic knowledge about what i talked about, thank you.

Rune of the trooper the new antitoxin rune? Lol. Stopped reading after that

@Strider Pj.2193

The topic on trooper is up again cause the support rune meta has changed with recent patch where anti-toxin is dead now. So people will go to the best thing available now that was somewhat close to what anti-toxin could if possible.

I never said other classes shouldn't have a role, I just said there needs to be a balance.I actually encourage this recent patch cause it tried to shift the meta so FB and Scourge are less focus of the keyroles in a zerg but the changes to scourge had the opposite effect like i said and FB's nerfs won't effect it much if not at all.

Like do you think the current powercreeping we have is good for the gamemode? seriously?

@zaid.2308 said:@sephiroth.4217

I tested trooper runes on tempest and tested it on warrior support and know how strong it is. It's even a lot stronger on warrior. They can either change how the rune works or rework the cleansing ability on warrior and tempest. Tempest is the top cleanser now as scrapper isn't carried by anti-toxin anyore but even before, tempest was only a bit behind scrapper. We shouldn't be bias around balance, all classes/elite-specs/builds needs balancing need to be balanced.

The rune has a VERY high chance of becoming the new anti-toxin rune and it's already slowly becoming it on warrior.We shoudn't repeat a mistake we just fixed after so long finally...

Supports cleansing ability need to be on par with how much ca. corruption/condi spikes can be put out, one of either shouldn't top the other.

I agree that we shouldn't be bias as cleansing conditions is essentially all we have left as a Tempest.

even being fully spec for cleansing isn't enough to keep up. so maybe we should tone down application on some classes instead?

Long Long ago in a long ago wvw era, there was never balence and the devs wanted it to be caotic. The End.

@hunkamania.7561

Either you joking or know lol.Or the NA meta maybe just haven't tried it out yet afterall most of the times the broken stuff come from Eu WvW ;)

@zaid.2308 said:@hunkamania.7561

Either you joking or know lol.Or the NA meta maybe just haven't tried it out yet afterall most of the times the broken stuff come from Eu WvW ;)

Could you be any more condescending? I mean, really? You could just be talking nonsense after all.

@CutesySylveon.8290

Please elaborate, I dont get how i was condescending?

And for the talk between me and hunk.I've tested it and if it's not enough believe it or not but a lot of guilds are trying trooper runes out on the new support spellbreaker, I dont want to hide this cause i dont want another repeat of what anti-toxin was.

@zaid.2308 said:@sephiroth.4217

I tested trooper runes on tempest and tested it on warrior support and know how strong it is. It's even a lot stronger on warrior. They can either change how the rune works or rework the cleansing ability on warrior and tempest. Tempest is the top cleanser now as scrapper isn't carried by anti-toxin anyore but even before, tempest was only a bit behind scrapper. We shouldn't be bias around balance, all classes/elite-specs/builds needs balancing need to be balanced.

The rune has a VERY high chance of becoming the new anti-toxin rune and it's already slowly becoming it on warrior.We shoudn't repeat a mistake we just fixed after so long finally...

Supports cleansing ability need to be on par with how much ca. corruption/condi spikes can be put out, one of either shouldn't top the other.

Trooper rune only adds one more cleanse on shouts, antitoxin doubled EVERY source of cleanse basically. Thats a major difference and is alot less potent.

Most warriors are using 3 shouts, 2 have ammunition, so thats basically 5 additional cleanses. Wowsers, sure is alot in zergfights were condis are thrown around everywhere.

@zaid.2308 said:@sephiroth.4217

I tested trooper runes on tempest and tested it on warrior support and know how strong it is. It's even a lot stronger on warrior. They can either change how the rune works or rework the cleansing ability on warrior and tempest. Tempest is the top cleanser now as scrapper isn't carried by anti-toxin anyore but even before, tempest was only a bit behind scrapper. We shouldn't be bias around balance, all classes/elite-specs/builds needs balancing need to be balanced.

The rune has a VERY high chance of becoming the new anti-toxin rune and it's already slowly becoming it on warrior.We shoudn't repeat a mistake we just fixed after so long finally...

Supports cleansing ability need to be on par with how much ca. corruption/condi spikes can be put out, one of either shouldn't top the other.

Sorry no. I'm not a fan of fighting warriors in their current state but they don't need shouts to beat you. There's other professions for worrying about condi cleanses. Trooper runes are extremely niche, and require the warrior's teammates to stay within range to get any benefit. Warriors, whatever flavour they might be, are there for ignoring condis long enough via stances to beat you into the dirt, so i don't know where this is coming from.

Edit:And as far as the monk's rune goes, that's niche as well. For one the engineer/Scrapper using it has to follow their group around and stay within medkit's/medblaster's range to benefit his team. For another, their only sources for healing themselves are going to be blasting the odd water field if they get a breath to do so, elixir gun if they have the time to swap quickly and ground target it on themselves, or the toolbelt skill that comes with medkit. None of these self healing options benefit from the outgoing healing bonus provided by the rune. Scrappers in particular won't be doing appreciable damage to feed their barrier to keep themselves alive and will probably be ignored while the enemy team focuses their team mates down and then finishes them last. Oh, and warriors are now built for shredding scrappers so there's that. So I don't see where this is going either.

@zaid.2308 said:@hunkamania.7561

Either you joking or know lol.Or the NA meta maybe just haven't tried it out yet afterall most of the times the broken stuff come from Eu WvW ;)

Only shouts cleanse an extra condi compared to antitoxin that doubles cleanses.... It's not even close to comparable.. Don't give me this EU and na trash anyone with a brain can theory craft in this game since they made it so ezpz.

lol antitoxen was extremely broken, becasue of the way it interacted on scrappers, and trooper runes do not work that same way. Tropper clears one condition when u use a shout and antitoxen cleared and extra conditon everytime you cleared a condition by use of any skill or utility.

If you didn't know this I forgive you, but this is the problem with this forum, instead of a place to learn and to have a community its a compliant box regardless of merit and legitimacy. This is why I don't post here ofeten becasue there is is seldom topics worth discussing just like this one. I'm holding back here so much if it wasn't an anet forum, id be super toxic to the OP, but i dont want to get banned.

@Warlord.9074

When did i ever say the 2 runes acted the same way?Like can most of you guys not read?Instead of acting like you know try and read, ye.

I never said they were on the same scale or worked the same way lolI linked the damn wiki for the rune for a reason.

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:No one has complained about Trooper runes for like 5 years. Scrapper, the class you're complaining about, can't use it. The only classes who might take it are tempest and guardian, and they lose a significant amount of outgoing healing to take Trooper runes.

Doesnt Reaper/Ranger/Warrior also have shouts?

This makes me wanna see if I can rebuild one of my old shout builds that was hard to kill to see if its anywhere near as effective lol

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:No one has complained about Trooper runes for like 5 years. Scrapper, the class you're complaining about, can't use it. The only classes who might take it are tempest and guardian, and they lose a significant amount of outgoing healing to take Trooper runes.

Doesnt Reaper/Ranger/Warrior also have shouts?

Ranger does not...... :anguished:

I am against nerfing the healing and support. Need less CC Immunity in general and less damage Immunity

@Kilrik.6320 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@"ventusthunder.5067" said:No one has complained about Trooper runes for like 5 years. Scrapper, the class you're complaining about, can't use it. The only classes who might take it are tempest and guardian, and they lose a significant amount of outgoing healing to take Trooper runes.

Doesnt Reaper/Ranger/Warrior also have shouts?

Hmmm.....as of May 2019 shouts were made into Command skills....interesting and seemingly unneeded

OP, you mind linking this build you are speaking of that are using Trooper Runes? I am having trouble believing those runes would be broken in any build.

I do agree Monk Runes could be toned down. They never needed the additional 6-piece bonus.

Other rune that needs to be nerfed is Tormenting.