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Core Necro Post Patch Will Have Broken Sustain - Told You

Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 26, 2020 in PVP
<1345

Comments

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It saddens me that no ones even talking about being threatened by warriors post patch, not even jokes about it :(
    Godd damnn no damage on cc changes lol.
    If they weren't designed so much around hard cc ud all be scared, so very scared lol

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    This will be fun to see. Im a play my main, fa ele like I do day in day out. Right now all necros are food pretty much.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

  • fear decap lol
    no

    certain counters will remain and make core nec the same meme its always been

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It saddens me that no ones even talking about being threatened by warriors post patch, not even jokes about it :(
    Godd damnn no damage on cc changes lol.
    If they weren't designed so much around hard cc ud all be scared, so very scared lol

    ITs because they lost their broken might gain without the might splattering they lose a bit of everything, damage and healing.
    I think warriors will still be plenty scary especially spellbreakers imo. Without the might gain warriors would have been seen as closer to balanced and now that thats ideally being fixed there is no reason to really call out warriors.

    Warriors now dont get everything in one build that does well against the majority. IF you want more damage you dont get good sustain anymore. IF you want more sustain you dont get to keep leathal levels of damage which is how it should be.

    Thank you for the positive words regarding warrior post patch lol

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • kratan.4619kratan.4619 Member ✭✭✭

    At this point, it is probably too late for them to start making changes, getting them approved and tested prior to release. We may have to live with what is announced and wait for adjustments after go live.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 you dont get it.
    people lost their sustain be it evading or healing. and damage.
    necro didnt lose its sustain ( shroud )

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @ZDragon.3046 you dont get it.
    people lost their sustain be it evading or healing. and damage.
    necro didnt lose its sustain ( shroud )

    So should we consider stealth a part of thief sustain? If so it was also not touched yet correct?
    What about Revs energy the stuff they use for both their offensive and defensive skills?

    -minor edit-
    Do we count Doom nerf and stability losses that were/are tied to shroud as sustain nerfs or no?

    There was probably reason shroud has not changed (other than damage nerfs across all the skills) could it be that necro was not over-tuned in those categories to start with?
    Since when has anyone taken an issue with necromancer healing skills outside of well of blood revival speed (which is being nerfed btw)
    Necromancer didnt have evades to lose so you cant really make points there it lacked already what everyone else had.
    Necromancer also lost damage with everyone else so this is not a factor you can use against them either.

    Shroud sustain was never on par with pure damage evasion and or blocking either if it was it would have been nerfed and eve now it still might be in some aspect
    The difference between soaking a 8k or 10k hit and just avoiding it is night and day and necro lacked the power to avoid damage with any other skill other than its base dodges. And it still will lack the power to do that even more so than before.

    So as i said pick one
    Let necros be ping pong balls but able to take more hits than other professions normally would before death (its going to feel odd for sure) because they dont have additional options to avoid damage
    Or
    Give them the proper tools to avoid/deny the damage and stability access like all other professions and cut their shroud down to just being a damage tool.

    Im fine with either option, but we cannot be a between both where shroud does not effectively work on par with damage soaking vs damage avoidance while also not giving them damage avoidance tools.

    The gap between a profession that depends on not evading everything and one that does need to evade should not be as big as it is now. Damage soaking right now is highly unviable for the dps that each profession has in its kit let alone multiple ones targeting you at the same time. Thats why even now you still have people even this post considering necro's as "food" Because you can look at them and cough to effectively shut them down if you really know what you are doing.

    Im looking forward to builds that dont need to depend on running mass boon corruption splattering to be viable actually. I never liked that most of necro's viability at the moment is depedent upon mass boon corruption.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    ^ Title

    • Negative 33% damage game wide
    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output
    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs
    • Healing game wide -33%
    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    If this is not addressed before the patch drops, we'll see QQ in the forums on this topic, like an avalanche coming down a mountain.

    They also have no stability ??????
    You can literally do whatever you want to them in shroud. They cant even surprise [Doom] you to get you off them.

    If anything the game-wide nerf with necro shroud being untouched was the buff it needed to fill its archetype.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

    You obviously didn’t read Trevor guide. Just kite if your sitting on node ur gonna get 1 shot

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    more like a functionality change than a nerf
    fear duration is doubled, it will be as toxic as before

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

    You obviously didn’t read Trevor guide. Just kite if your sitting on node ur gonna get 1 shot

    lmao so whats the problem with necro sustain again if you can just one shot it on a node with minions around it?

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

    You obviously didn’t read Trevor guide. Just kite if your sitting on node ur gonna get 1 shot

    lmao so whats the problem with necro sustain again if you can just one shot it on a node with minions around it?

    It’s just u didn’t seem to understand from the start you even claim it would be really good 1v1 but not at holding node 1vx. Ur not really supposed to hold node 1vx, necro also has some of the best skills in the game for kiting. If it’s possible for a bunker necro to dominate 1v1s it might end up really strong and if they cannot kite away with spectral walk and a new health bar that might just be a l2p issue. Again who knows what’ll be meta but with patch notes necro is clearly making a come back and it’s just kind of silly to say o wait a necro shouldn’t be able to 1vx on a node, when I don’t think there are any classes rn that can anyways...
    U get it yet?

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

    Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"
    How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

    I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

    You obviously didn’t read Trevor guide. Just kite if your sitting on node ur gonna get 1 shot

    lmao so whats the problem with necro sustain again if you can just one shot it on a node with minions around it?

    It’s just u didn’t seem to understand from the start you even claim it would be really good 1v1 but not at holding node 1vx. Ur not really supposed to hold node 1vx, necro also has some of the best skills in the game for kiting. If it’s possible for a bunker necro to dominate 1v1s it might end up really strong and if they cannot kite away with spectral walk and a new health bar that might just be a l2p issue. Again who knows what’ll be meta but with patch notes necro is clearly making a come back and it’s just kind of silly to say o wait a necro shouldn’t be able to 1vx on a node, when I don’t think there are any classes rn that can anyways...
    U get it yet?

    Well i dont think any profession should be able to 1vx on a node for any long period of time to be honest with you thats should not be feasible no matter what you are playing which is why i said that. Before or after the patch that simply should not happen so i think its not silly to say that much.
    Necro is also known for being focused first and that will never change until either it becomes strong enough to make a team question if they really need to focus it first or it gains the evasiveness or hard defenses that everyone else has that keeps them from wanting to be targeted first.

    If necro reaches a point where its not always the "default" first target in a fight simply because it cant run away then in my opinion this is a good thing. You should question if you really need to focus the necro first or if the support or damage dealers on the other team are more important to focus on. IF a necro can stall long enough (even if it dies) that its teammates killed your team in the end for focusing on it when you should have played a different angle then thats a good thing.

    Lastly I didnt claim it would be good or "really good" those are you words not mine. Necro in general is known to be one of the worst 1v1 professions in the game which is why in 1v1 situations most other professions can easily shut it down with ease. I just think after the patch it wont be as "free" in a lot of 1v1 situations as it is now because overall damage has dropped and the nature of how its designed will shine a bit better and be more on par with damage avoidance vs right now where the shroud can be nuked by 1 skill (in some cases a cc skill)

    In terms of kiting tools i dont agree there are better kiting tools on other professions but thats my personal opinion and im entitled to it but it does not make it true but that also means your statement about them having some of the best kiting tools is also not a true statement but you certainly have the right to claim such if you consider that. I think their tools are "good" but not "the best" If chill and cripple still effected movement abilities i might consider things like "spectral walk" the best

    I dont think a true bunker necro can dominate anything in 1v1 unless the aggressor over extends purposely or makes lots of mistakes.

  • @witcher.3197 said:
    They are losing the instant fear in shroud AND the stability proc.

    A CC chain will destroy them in shroud as long as there's a followup from a second player, and since necro is not a 1v1 spec, there will be.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    If their design aim is to let them soak a lot of damage in shroud, so be it .
    They even got their cds for stunbreaks increased.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    can we also mention that core necro has 0 source of stability unless using an Elite ?

    Tanky, no stability, but CC does no damage...

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    can we also mention that core necro has 0 source of stability unless using an Elite ?

    Tanky, no stability, but CC does no damage...

    I get the joke but there's people that think that.
    Why are people pretending like anything other than knockback wont be a near-guaranteed setup for shroud-deleting attacks?

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    CC chain and ranged dmg burst will annihilate it. It will not even be comparable to sword weaver we've right now, since necro won't be able to evade that much nor breakstun as fast. Infact it would become a subpar bunker with less dmg, no block, no evades nor stability. Pick ranger or deadeye, don't spam boons, pack cc, watch the necro cry. With any skilled player +1 on the necro, it will be insta dead.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Jobe.8290 said:
    Bunker Core Necro is going to be unkillable :)

    I already see 1 guy that plays menders + wells core necro and he is already labeled a bot due to the fact that he will undoubtedly push far at start of match and just sit on node. I’m surprised this isn’t meta already

    Because if your team actually focuses him properly he will still die. if one person goes to kill him in a 1v1 it might take a while sure but in a 1 v any number of people it should still die like immediately. Thats why its not meta.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    • Negative 33% damage game wide

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Healing game wide -33%

    This has a impact on everyone not just necro this is not relevant to the title

    • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

    Pets largely remained largely untouched (any pet dps nerfs can be equal to things like shatter dps nerfs and shroud skills that were nerfed mechanically pets didnt change though.)
    Stealth was untouched
    Revs Energy gain/loss is untouched
    Clones / Phantoms at base are untouched
    Tool belt functionality is untouched
    Adrenaline is untouched

    Do you see the pattern here?
    If they touch shroud expect pets and everything above to be touched too for the record.

    If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

    Many people dont think necro is tanky especially when its focused first but i would rather be tanky if that keeps me viable over depending purely boon corruption which is what the current meta is and its disgusting. I would say get use to necros being ping pong balls but also not being inherently free kills cause you looked at them or one touched them.

    We can remain squishy if you are ok with giving necromancers, blocks, evades, and a invuln that prevents one or both types of incoming damage completely to both their hp an their shroud bar oh also we will need stability again too.

    Either make damage soaking for necro near equivalent to damage avoidance which is how necromancer is designed (necro does not have this options for damage blocking or damage avoidance) or give necro the same tools as every other profession. Pick one!

    • Free as everyone else but has damage block/ evasion like everyone else.
    • Soaks everything and can take more hits than everyone else but cant avoid the damage.

    You clearly missed the point. Just remember how busted menders Druid was with 1 pet running around, now multiply that by 5 that’s how busted side node necro is

    You clearly missed how minions are not as effective as pets though? Have you tried using aoe to kill the pets? Have you tried focusing the necormancer with a friend or as your team should?
    You do realize that unlike druid necromancer does not have a button that will stealth them upon exiting a certain mode giving time for disengage or repositioning. At best the might have wurm hidden some place which removes that minion count from 5 down to 4 depending on where they placed it.

    Like i said there is a reason this is not meta yet because it can be shut down easily if a necro does this on your home point your team should be able to force it out or kill it with proper focusing as you would any necro. Unlike menders druid it lacks blocks, evades, and stealth.
    If this happens on the mid point same thing
    If this happens on far and you own home and mid why are you going to far to fight a mender bunker in a 1v1 where you dont have the tools or dps to win
    Thats not making the most of your role especially if you own 2/3 points (this is an example of course)

    Now if the necromancer has a firebrand or something support them then you cant only fault the necro in those instances. If the necormancer has some one peeling for them you cant only fault the necromancer in those instances

    You obviously didn’t read Trevor guide. Just kite if your sitting on node ur gonna get 1 shot

    lmao so whats the problem with necro sustain again if you can just one shot it on a node with minions around it?

    It’s just u didn’t seem to understand from the start you even claim it would be really good 1v1 but not at holding node 1vx. Ur not really supposed to hold node 1vx, necro also has some of the best skills in the game for kiting. If it’s possible for a bunker necro to dominate 1v1s it might end up really strong and if they cannot kite away with spectral walk and a new health bar that might just be a l2p issue. Again who knows what’ll be meta but with patch notes necro is clearly making a come back and it’s just kind of silly to say o wait a necro shouldn’t be able to 1vx on a node, when I don’t think there are any classes rn that can anyways...
    U get it yet?

    Well i dont think any profession should be able to 1vx on a node for any long period of time to be honest with you thats should not be feasible no matter what you are playing which is why i said that. Before or after the patch that simply should not happen so i think its not silly to say that much.
    Necro is also known for being focused first and that will never change until either it becomes strong enough to make a team question if they really need to focus it first or it gains the evasiveness or hard defenses that everyone else has that keeps them from wanting to be targeted first.

    If necro reaches a point where its not always the "default" first target in a fight simply because it cant run away then in my opinion this is a good thing. You should question if you really need to focus the necro first or if the support or damage dealers on the other team are more important to focus on. IF a necro can stall long enough (even if it dies) that its teammates killed your team in the end for focusing on it when you should have played a different angle then thats a good thing.

    Lastly I didnt claim it would be good or "really good" those are you words not mine. Necro in general is known to be one of the worst 1v1 professions in the game which is why in 1v1 situations most other professions can easily shut it down with ease. I just think after the patch it wont be as "free" in a lot of 1v1 situations as it is now because overall damage has dropped and the nature of how its designed will shine a bit better and be more on par with damage avoidance vs right now where the shroud can be nuked by 1 skill (in some cases a cc skill)

    In terms of kiting tools i dont agree there are better kiting tools on other professions but thats my personal opinion and im entitled to it but it does not make it true but that also means your statement about them having some of the best kiting tools is also not a true statement but you certainly have the right to claim such if you consider that. I think their tools are "good" but not "the best" If chill and cripple still effected movement abilities i might consider things like "spectral walk" the best

    I dont think a true bunker necro can dominate anything in 1v1 unless the aggressor over extends purposely or makes lots of mistakes.

    Well I don’t think it’s actually the best kiting spec, but it definitely does have some of the strongest kiting tools like spectral walk. Also you pointed out how it might take forever to even get a kill, which is the definition of a side node bunker but pointed out how a team can get the kill quickly which is talking 1vx. Also your probably wrong about how ez it is to get a kill on necro- ppl would focus necro a first because they soak damage, but they are not exactly ez to kill and in this meta that is definitely the case. You probably have no seen all the builds but blood magic and death magic builds are already very hard to down and for awhile support firebrand has probably been the best on to focus, most likely since ppl started playing s/d thief which was the start of pof.
    So anyways the point being that in a power creep meta necro is hard to kill and it’s about to get way way harder- to the point where it’s fair to say that it’s likely to actually have a necro sit on say home, which it can already do well against quiet a few match ups. No one knows what the meta is yet, but it’s likely that necro will be strong and I agree that it might be able to side node much much more than it does now

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

    Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"
    How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

    I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

    Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

    I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

    Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the time 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

    And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

    I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

    Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

    Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"
    How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

    I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

    Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

    I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

    Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

    And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

    I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

    Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

    This is true example if u take signet traited u can 1.) get full shroud super fast 2.) regenerate shroud faster than u lose it(like what) 3.) u have an instant Rez that btw is bugged so that after 5 secs in shroud it comes back fully recharged. Necro is starting to look nutty with all the reworks and patches

  • verskore.4312verskore.4312 Member ✭✭✭

    guess ill have to go full meme zerker soulbeast to compensate for my DPS loss, oh well, anything for the oneshot

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @verskore.4312 said:
    guess ill have to go full meme zerker soulbeast to compensate for my DPS loss, oh well, anything for the oneshot

    Nope

    First of all, there never was any "1HKOing" going on last couple patches at all. that went away after 40% Sic Em to 25%. At the best you could still land 2HKOs with a clean combo against something like a Thief with Maul into WI. Outside of that, at best in this seasons or the last, you're looking at 3HKO-4HKO with Berserker Soulbeast setups, and that's if the guy is flat-footed and doesn't react.

    After this patch, there will be no more "one-bursting" regardless of one hit - two hit - three four hit, it won't be possible anymore unless you're against wood tier opponents who don't know how to dodge roll/use blocks/heal/apply counter offense. The timers & CDs on Soulbeast skills won't allow for anymore one-bursting, after -33% damage, 0 dmg hard CCs, and ill quickness uptime.

    Oh and might I mention that you've all been playing against quickness enhanced Maul/WI for so long that people have grown acclimated to reacting to it. When quickness access/uptime bottoms out, Rangers won't be able to brawl much longer than about 4s at a time with Quickness, which means they won't have many opportunities to land Maul/Wi. And the frequency of this 4s Quickness will be once about every 15s to 20s. When Rangers are forced to stay in brawling situation and have to slap around ultra slow Mauls/Wis, they aren't going to be able to land that stuff. It's time for people to stop complaining about Ranger now.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    can we also mention that core necro has 0 source of stability unless using an Elite ?

    Core necro going to be Good not "busted" and might become Meta again depending on How Condi Rev, Thief, Holo, Ranger ends up working out. I can't imagine playing necro with 0 Stability as a stun break but we'll see how it plays out. Patch hasn't even came out yet any everyone crying about certain specs going to be "busted".

    Imo theirs a fair amount of Spec that might actually shine and actually put work in conquest again, For Example Core Ranger, Scrapper, Power Core Mesmer, Core Necro and maybe even Condi Rev.

    We should just chill out and see how things play out AFTER the patch.

    Yeah I hear ya.

    But I'd like to figure it out now, before I have to wait 6 months or something for it to be fixed.

  • I just tried a build that would be minimally affected by the nerfs and it simply will not die unless you have multiple people target you with CC's or you already burned everything up in a fight before and you get ambushed. If you take Death Magic you are basically immune to condition damage while you stack up tons of toughness, which will be even more effective after nerfs. Take Blood Magic and you'll still heal a ton because it was barely touched. Trevor is right, it's too tanky and it gains its life force back too easily with some traits and skills (Fear of Death (15% - 5 sec cd); Spectral Armor (8% per hit per sec with 64% max - 45 sec cd after patch)) while healing for set amounts with minions, Vampiric, Vampiric Presence, and wells during Shroud. The removal of Foot in the Grave also didn't change anything because you already get spammed with CC's anyways, so it's nearly worthless now. I'm seriously struggling to come up with a way to kill this after the patch without four glass cannons on one person while one person perma stuns and that's just awful for both sides. It really needs to be looked at.

  • ZeftheWicked.3076ZeftheWicked.3076 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be a point decapper/bunker you not only need good cc to get them off the point, but also very solid anti-cc game to stay on said point and not be cc'd off it yourself. That already deletes core necro off the "point decapper/bunker" list.

    Also necro has very limited access to fears, and his best one (shroud #3) is getting nerfed (cast time added, where before it was instant). The legend of monstrous fear cc chains stems from corruption builds that get a lot of extra fears from corrupting enemy stab. But that works in teamfights where necro is but one of the dangers, and often enemies pop stab to defend from other teammates cc, completely forgetting there's a necro waiting to corrupt it.

    In 1v1 fight to contest a point your enemy is far more focused on fighting you -the necro, and far more aware that any boons he uses (especially stab) can become your weapon. Don't expect happy fear cc chains in this situation.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again.

    what lol? build pls

    Te lazla otstara.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    But I'd like to figure it out now, before I have to wait 6 months or something for it to be fixed.

    Tbh they did say they're trying to balance close to monthly now, iirc.
    Pretty sure they're not going to leave patch 1 of their paradigm shift hanging if it ships leaky.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    can we also mention that core necro has 0 source of stability unless using an Elite ?

    Tanky, no stability, but CC does no damage...

    I get the joke but there's people that think that.
    Why are people pretending like anything other than knockback wont be a near-guaranteed setup for shroud-deleting attacks?

    True but does reaper have no stunbreak to get up after hard cc before burst? 90%when I knockdown on warrior it's pointless cuz stunbreaks are so rampant

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again.

    what lol? build pls

    Simple

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

    Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

    I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

    Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"
    How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

    I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

    Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

    I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

    Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

    And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

    I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

    Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

    This is true example if u take signet traited u can 1.) get full shroud super fast 2.) regenerate shroud faster than u lose it(like what) 3.) u have an instant Rez that btw is bugged so that after 5 secs in shroud it comes back fully recharged. Necro is starting to look nutty with all the reworks and patches

    Signet and possibly some attacks that generate lf can get you full shroud in about 9 secs.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    It saddens me that no ones even talking about being threatened by warriors post patch, not even jokes about it :(
    Godd damnn no damage on cc changes lol.
    If they weren't designed so much around hard cc ud all be scared, so very scared lol

    I think we will be just fine. Shield bash already hits low, FC already hits low, only losing damage from bulls charge and tbh it's whatever. Where the real hurt is coming from is the sustain hits.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Dahkeus.8243 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    can we also mention that core necro has 0 source of stability unless using an Elite ?

    Tanky, no stability, but CC does no damage...

    I get the joke but there's people that think that.
    Why are people pretending like anything other than knockback wont be a near-guaranteed setup for shroud-deleting attacks?

    True but does reaper have no stunbreak to get up after hard cc before burst? 90%when I knockdown on warrior it's pointless cuz stunbreaks are so rampant

    It... It doesnt.

    it has a skill that grants them stability. It wont work if they use it after they get cced.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020
  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well if I knew that one day I'd finally see a plea to nerf DS...

    Anyway, I don't want to be mean but the fact is, while the shroud is not nerfed, a lot of weapon skills/utility skills and traits that movement skills, block, give aegis, simply evade or even increase endurance generation (one way or another) aren't either. And fact is that blocks, dodge and evade happen to negate hard CC.

    It's a given that the necromancer will be seen as a pain to take down and it's gameplay won't be thrilling (to the point that it will most likely increase the PvP player's scorn toward the necromancer and it's "newby friendly" gameplay). But other professions will still have most of their owns tools to rival the necromancer in survivability.

    NB.: I don't say that the necromancer won't take the nerf bat to it's sustain after the patch hit (his sustain will most likely be targeted by the sPvP community's hate).

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    Suddenly core necro might not become an ez free kill, and everybody cries even before even seeing the full scope of a patch. Some of you talk about magic builds that have everything, deathmagic, blood magic, signet traited(spite), awesome fear(soul reaping), terror(curse). Calm down.

    You will have probably just 3 of those lines, and considering necro power damage and corruption got nerfed. I mean all corruption cut in half, will have single corruption per skill, except boon corrupt which got nerfed with cd increase.
    So if the undieing build you are talking about is wells, blood magic, death magic(carapace stacks), soul reaping, that build is a bruiser with trash damage that relies heavily on landing axe 2 and dagger 2 in one after another to even have a burst, after that nothing, wet noodle level of damage with axe autos or dagger.
    You can't even go condi with that setup because guess what? they nerfed that too and without curses and fear that does dmg no condi core is viable.
    You will go with power dmg, but axe damage is nerfed, dagger auto is nerfed, soul siphon heal is nerfed. Yes that build is design to be attrition fighting, so what? Classes like weaver can have that with god level of burn dmg with 25 might stacks for months, and you haven't even see the full patch scope and already complain about it.
    When we all know now things like fresh air ele, deadeye, rangers, rifle warriors and anything that can range burst has laughed in the face of a tanky necro.

    Now let's go for the unkillable fear machine aoe, with triple stun break someone suggested.
    If it's a terror build curses will be picked, which implies since every condi duration rune will be cut that you will have to pick soul reaping too(with new patch even more). So now you're left with 1 traitline, you won't be able to have death magic and blood magic and signets build, you must pick of those. Based on what you pick with deathmagic or blood you become more tanky with spite you get the signet of vampirism life regen. And no you won't be able to have good corruption on this builds because guess what all cutted in half. Let's all remember now doom has a cast time, so no cries for instant fear. Want fear aoe pick staff, you want more get spectral ring, but oof now no triple stun breaks, you have only 2 left. So you are playing condi, you will pick scepter, but oof that got corrupt nerfed too and the scepter has now 1 corrupt, and grasping death got now only 2 bleed stacks. So on a condi build like with with scepter/dagger and staff you will have 2 corrupts, if you want triple stun break no corrupt boon otherwise you will go up on corruption with it(only 2 stun breaks), but since you are playing condi you will be taking plaguelands no Lichform elite for stab because it will be useless.

    So it's condi fear build will have a lot less corruption with only 1 tanky line to choose, if it's power core will not have and fear dmg and it will be a power bruiser with the entire dmg on axe 2 and dagger 2 with more corrupts, and I've been playing this build for a long time and I can tell you the damage is all there. Sure you could go for well of suffering or corruption for more dmg but again no triple stun break there. And for Lich Form no necro in his right mind if there's another necro in enemy team will pick it because it will just end up in a fear chain.
    You are crafting magical all doing builds without giving an exact value to what viable builds will bring.

    That’s the most apocalyptic necro balance analysis I’ve seen yet.

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2020

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    Suddenly core necro might not become an ez free kill, and everybody cries even before even seeing the full scope of a patch. Some of you talk about magic builds that have everything, deathmagic, blood magic, signet traited(spite), awesome fear(soul reaping), terror(curse). Calm down.

    You will have probably just 3 of those lines, and considering necro power damage and corruption got nerfed. I mean all corruption cut in half, will have single corruption per skill, except boon corrupt which got nerfed with cd increase.
    So if the undieing build you are talking about is wells, blood magic, death magic(carapace stacks), soul reaping, that build is a bruiser with trash damage that relies heavily on landing axe 2 and dagger 2 in one after another to even have a burst, after that nothing, wet noodle level of damage with axe autos or dagger.
    You can't even go condi with that setup because guess what? they nerfed that too and without curses and fear that does dmg no condi core is viable.
    You will go with power dmg, but axe damage is nerfed, dagger auto is nerfed, soul siphon heal is nerfed. Yes that build is design to be attrition fighting, so what? Classes like weaver can have that with god level of burn dmg with 25 might stacks for months, and you haven't even see the full patch scope and already complain about it.
    When we all know now things like fresh air ele, deadeye, rangers, rifle warriors and anything that can range burst has laughed in the face of a tanky necro.

    Now let's go for the unkillable fear machine aoe, with triple stun break someone suggested.
    If it's a terror build curses will be picked, which implies since every condi duration rune will be cut that you will have to pick soul reaping too(with new patch even more). So now you're left with 1 traitline, you won't be able to have death magic and blood magic and signets build, you must pick of those. Based on what you pick with deathmagic or blood you become more tanky with spite you get the signet of vampirism life regen. And no you won't be able to have good corruption on this builds because guess what all cutted in half. Let's all remember now doom has a cast time, so no cries for instant fear. Want fear aoe pick staff, you want more get spectral ring, but oof now no triple stun breaks, you have only 2 left. So you are playing condi, you will pick scepter, but oof that got corrupt nerfed too and the scepter has now 1 corrupt, and grasping death got now only 2 bleed stacks. So on a condi build like with with scepter/dagger and staff you will have 2 corrupts, if you want triple stun break no corrupt boon otherwise you will go up on corruption with it(only 2 stun breaks), but since you are playing condi you will be taking plaguelands no Lichform elite for stab because it will be useless.

    So it's condi fear build will have a lot less corruption with only 1 tanky line to choose, if it's power core will not have and fear dmg and it will be a power bruiser with the entire dmg on axe 2 and dagger 2 with more corrupts, and I've been playing this build for a long time and I can tell you the damage is all there. Sure you could go for well of suffering or corruption for more dmg but again no triple stun break there. And for Lich Form no necro in his right mind if there's another necro in enemy team will pick it because it will just end up in a fear chain.
    You are crafting magical all doing builds without giving an exact value to what viable builds will bring.

    That’s the most apocalyptic necro balance analysis I’ve seen yet.

    No it's a realistic one that weights all the options avilable.
    If you can counter any of the points I've made, I'll be here to discuss them. What I wrote about the builds are facts. I've been playing core necro since 2012 and I have a ferm grasp of all the possible builds on it. Is it true or not that necro corruptions will get halved on dagger, axe,scepter, spiteful spirit? Is true or not that all power dmg abilities (axe2, dagger auto, life transfer, life blast) which are crucial to power core will be nerfed? Is it true or not that you can't have 3 breakstuns if u take corrupt boon or spectral ring on a condi terror build? Is it true or not that doom will have a cast time so no instant fear?And I could go on stating more, but I guess you understand the point, and by all mean if something I wrote is wrong feel free to correct me.