Please gut Condi Daredevil and Acro Staff Daredevil

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Crab Fear.1624 @Alatar.7364 @Daishi.6027 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Psycoprophet.8107 @mortrialus.3062 @"mrauls.6519" @babazhook.6805 @Kageseigi.2150 @foste.3098 @Burnfall.9573 @Safandula.8723 @Tsuchinoko.7546 @Fat Disgrace.4275 @Tycura.1982 @KrHome.1920 @NecroSummonsMors.7816 @Whitworth.7259 @shadowpass.4236 @"saerni.2584"

Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately.

First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way.

Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead:

1. For purposes of debate in this thread.
2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play.
3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken.
   Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.
   If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw

Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining

<- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other.

~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way.

imo this build is worse than condi s/d by dmg and mobility. Survivability prolly as well but bit kind to compare. i wanted to see staff condi, so im disappointed :(

I just finished filming some staff condi games. I am going to upload the gameplay lol.

Okay. I made sure to get several scenarios that show the pros and cons of the build and not just a one sided I win montage.

https://youtu.be/QAqRLlYwKB0

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Yes get rid of a trait to weaken a already known weak 1v1 to make it have less tools to succeed in a 1v1. It's nice that these traits exist as it helps thief in fights in a way that a criteria had to be met for it to be effective unlike just being a boring below 50 hp reciever 3 second invulnerability etc. The trait is far from op. While were at ot get rid of inf arrow and poison all together cuz why would a thief use poison amiright?lol also shadow step should be removed as well until a descision can be made on whether or not to save time and resources and just delete the class.

The trait is just as bad as ci, you don't need to keep the guy inb, you just need to proc imbo every few seconds and sword #2 does too well and so does body shot , combine that with the other 2 poison orientated traits then it gets silly very fast.

Stop being a cry baby, you cant be defending this type of play, regardless of it's the only build to 1v1. They added way too much poison procs to da now and it

None of the other ports immobilize the dude :-/

[babazhook.6805]

People are bouncing all over the place when trying to make the claim this spec op. First they stalk about staff, which is nonsense, then they go onto shortbow and now it s/d.

Which is it?

I play a lot of Magic the Gathering , a card game. When it apparent a given card or set of cards overperform it generally because a great percentage of the builds start to use it and win with it. As example there now a build called the Hogaak build which wins consistently at tournaments against any number of decks and in the last I read of took 5 of the 8 top places. This card is Overperfroming and killing diversity . Calls to "ban" the card are justified.

When a given deck is just irritating to play against but has any manner of decks that can nbeat it than it just irritating to play against. Again I find a pile of decks irritating and boring to play against but this does not justify bans. You can generally beat them.

The same applies here. People tend to gravitate to builds that win fights and win consistently . When you start seeing 60 and 70 percent and more of all builds going to one build then like as not you have an issue. When you have some small handfull of builds of the one type tehn any claims it OP tend to be subjective complaints from people who just do not like playing against that build.

I am not seeing an uptick of thieves in game. I am not seeing this particular build dominate among the thief class.

One of the more irritating builds to play against is d/d condition where Deathblossom spammed coupled with dodges for impaling out of the DD line. This build can be very effective against peoples that do not understand how it works. You come up against a person , no matter the class who knows how to deal with it and effectiveness plummets .It my feeling much the same happens here.

I refer in particular to staff/sb and or p/d in some combination using deadly traits line. I am not speaking to s/x but as others pointed out s/x could always stack poison in a hurry. The add of deadly ambition does not change that a lot and in fact s/d could be more effective using the old needle trap and trappers respite as it could add more condition stacks in a hurry along with a wider variety of condition stacks.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

[babazhook.6805]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

Then why mention it at all? Outside of the s/x condition build most condition builds are better served taking even the odds . You singled out PANIC strike as the problem and not the port immob on sword 2.

sword 2 condition build is much like sword 2 power build. People dart in and out and it can be frustrating to play against. s/d is power is Meta because it generally outperforms s/d condition. S/d power will not have many problems with s/d condition as the latter is limited in the conditions it applies which can be more easily cleansed just on that port.

I see more potential for s/x becoming an issue then the mentioned staff and this topic started on a gut staff meme. If that the case , and I suggest people give it some time first to see how it perfrom long term, then look at s/x.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

Then why mention it at all? Outside of the s/x condition build most condition builds are better served taking even the odds . You singled out PANIC strike as the problem and not the port immob on sword 2.

sword 2 condition build is much like sword 2 power build. People dart in and out and it can be frustrating to play against. s/d is power is Meta because it generally outperforms s/d condition. S/d power will not have many problems with s/d condition as the latter is limited in the conditions it applies which can be more easily cleansed just on that port.

Because not everyone can observe everything at once, all of the time and I have managed to sneak up in a team fight and pop 3 body shots of in a row. Ofc it was unranked but the point is, immobile spam works with panic strike and it doesn't matter how its executed.

[babazhook.6805]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

Then why mention it at all? Outside of the s/x condition build most condition builds are better served taking even the odds . You singled out PANIC strike as the problem and not the port immob on sword 2.

sword 2 condition build is much like sword 2 power build. People dart in and out and it can be frustrating to play against. s/d is power is Meta because it generally outperforms s/d condition. S/d power will not have many problems with s/d condition as the latter is limited in the conditions it applies which can be more easily cleansed just on that port.

Because not everyone can observe everything at once, all of the time and I have managed to sneak up in a team fight and pop 3 body shots of in a row. Ofc it was unranked but the point is, immobile spam works with panic strike and it doesn't matter how its executed.

The fact that no one can see everything at once has nothing to do with whether a spec overperforming. If I do not see PLUG IN CLASS HERE coming in time the results are pretty much the same. You are outnumbered. Your cooldowns shot and now you have a second enemy to deal with. That is how it should be. If I do nto see a warrior using Gunflame arrive on the scene then I am generally dead to gunflame and it generally to one shot of gunflame and not three or 4 body shots. That does not mean gunflame op.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

Then why mention it at all? Outside of the s/x condition build most condition builds are better served taking even the odds . You singled out PANIC strike as the problem and not the port immob on sword 2.

sword 2 condition build is much like sword 2 power build. People dart in and out and it can be frustrating to play against. s/d is power is Meta because it generally outperforms s/d condition. S/d power will not have many problems with s/d condition as the latter is limited in the conditions it applies which can be more easily cleansed just on that port.

Because not everyone can observe everything at once, all of the time and I have managed to sneak up in a team fight and pop 3 body shots of in a row. Ofc it was unranked but the point is, immobile spam works with panic strike and it doesn't matter how its executed.

The fact that no one can see everything at once has nothing to do with whether a spec overperforming. If I do not see PLUG IN CLASS HERE coming in time the results are pretty much the same. You are outnumbered. Your cooldowns shot and now you have a second enemy to deal with. That is how it should be. If I do nto see a warrior using Gunflame arrive on the scene then I am generally dead to gunflame and it generally to one shot of gunflame and not three or 4 body shots. That does not mean gunflame op.

Dude, what? All I said was I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks of body shot with traits in deadly arts, mainly panic strike. That's all.

[Alatar.7364]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Crab Fear.1624 @Alatar.7364 @Daishi.6027 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Psycoprophet.8107 @mortrialus.3062 @"mrauls.6519" @babazhook.6805 @Kageseigi.2150 @foste.3098 @Burnfall.9573 @Safandula.8723 @Tsuchinoko.7546 @Fat Disgrace.4275 @Tycura.1982 @KrHome.1920 @NecroSummonsMors.7816 @Whitworth.7259 @shadowpass.4236 @"saerni.2584"

Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately.

First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way.

Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead:

1. For purposes of debate in this thread.
2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play.
3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken.
   Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.
   If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw

Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining

<- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other.

~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way.

imo this build is worse than condi s/d by dmg and mobility. Survivability prolly as well but bit kind to compare. i wanted to see staff condi, so im disappointed :(

I just finished filming some staff condi games. I am going to upload the gameplay lol.

Okay. I made sure to get several scenarios that show the pros and cons of the build and not just a one sided I win montage.

https://youtu.be/QAqRLlYwKB0

Quite convincing actually, however I think it would be a better showcase of the build if you played most of it while try-hard holding a node vs even a mutliple of people, which is according to some what it's supposed to do, the fight at the mine was like that.

[Safandula.8723]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Crab Fear.1624 @Alatar.7364 @Daishi.6027 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Psycoprophet.8107 @mortrialus.3062 @"mrauls.6519" @babazhook.6805 @Kageseigi.2150 @foste.3098 @Burnfall.9573 @Safandula.8723 @Tsuchinoko.7546 @Fat Disgrace.4275 @Tycura.1982 @KrHome.1920 @NecroSummonsMors.7816 @Whitworth.7259 @shadowpass.4236 @"saerni.2584"

Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately.

First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way.

Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead:

1. For purposes of debate in this thread.
2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play.
3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken.
   Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.
   If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw

Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining

<- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other.

~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way.

imo this build is worse than condi s/d by dmg and mobility. Survivability prolly as well but bit kind to compare. i wanted to see staff condi, so im disappointed :(

I just finished filming some staff condi games. I am going to upload the gameplay lol.

Okay. I made sure to get several scenarios that show the pros and cons of the build and not just a one sided I win montage.

https://youtu.be/QAqRLlYwKB0

ok its not that bad as i thought :D but it doesnt use acro and doesnt hold 4 ppl on node as some claimed ^^ i' ll try it in wvw i think. btw how did u apply burn at 3:40?

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Crab Fear.1624 @Alatar.7364 @Daishi.6027 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Psycoprophet.8107 @mortrialus.3062 @"mrauls.6519" @babazhook.6805 @Kageseigi.2150 @foste.3098 @Burnfall.9573 @Safandula.8723 @Tsuchinoko.7546 @Fat Disgrace.4275 @Tycura.1982 @KrHome.1920 @NecroSummonsMors.7816 @Whitworth.7259 @shadowpass.4236 @"saerni.2584"

Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately.

First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way.

Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead:

1. For purposes of debate in this thread.
2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play.
3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken.
   Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.
   If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw

Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining

<- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other.

~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way.

imo this build is worse than condi s/d by dmg and mobility. Survivability prolly as well but bit kind to compare. i wanted to see staff condi, so im disappointed :(

I just finished filming some staff condi games. I am going to upload the gameplay lol.

Okay. I made sure to get several scenarios that show the pros and cons of the build and not just a one sided I win montage.

https://youtu.be/QAqRLlYwKB0

ok its not that bad as i thought :D but it doesnt use acro and doesnt hold 4 ppl on node as some claimed ^^ i' ll try it in wvw i think. btw how did u apply burn at 3:40?

I had justice on me from our guard.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I am really surprised that anet didn't even see this coming with the deadly arts changes, they left panic strike alone. I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks with core p/d just spamming body shot. Get rid of panic strike.

Body shot is a super slow projectile which is easy to avoid. You can sidestep it quite easily or just backpedal out of its range. A person playing p/d will rarely use it as it not a great use of INI given so many shots will not hit target. If a person eats all those hits you are playing against a rock.

INI is much better used with #3 , #5 and #5 as they all more reliable in dealing damage.

Body Shot spam is much like heartseeker spam. It only works when the enemy lets it work.

We all know this, but I wasnt referring to being in plain sight.

Then why mention it at all? Outside of the s/x condition build most condition builds are better served taking even the odds . You singled out PANIC strike as the problem and not the port immob on sword 2.

sword 2 condition build is much like sword 2 power build. People dart in and out and it can be frustrating to play against. s/d is power is Meta because it generally outperforms s/d condition. S/d power will not have many problems with s/d condition as the latter is limited in the conditions it applies which can be more easily cleansed just on that port.

Because not everyone can observe everything at once, all of the time and I have managed to sneak up in a team fight and pop 3 body shots of in a row. Ofc it was unranked but the point is, immobile spam works with panic strike and it doesn't matter how its executed.

The fact that no one can see everything at once has nothing to do with whether a spec overperforming. If I do not see PLUG IN CLASS HERE coming in time the results are pretty much the same. You are outnumbered. Your cooldowns shot and now you have a second enemy to deal with. That is how it should be. If I do nto see a warrior using Gunflame arrive on the scene then I am generally dead to gunflame and it generally to one shot of gunflame and not three or 4 body shots. That does not mean gunflame op.

Dude, what? All I said was I managed to get 3.5k poison ticks of body shot with traits in deadly arts, mainly panic strike. That's all.

Don't even argue with that guy. He just derails from points made.

I agree with what you said about Body Shot & Panic Strike though. I was noticing it myself. It's an incredibly powerful assist skill, especially if you fire it through the Choking Gas Field, which in that case Body Shot is also a 100% projectile finisher. For an assist skill that can spam immob, that's a lot of assist damage as well.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Crab Fear.1624 @Alatar.7364 @Daishi.6027 @Azure The Heartless.3261 @Psycoprophet.8107 @mortrialus.3062 @"mrauls.6519" @babazhook.6805 @Kageseigi.2150 @foste.3098 @Burnfall.9573 @Safandula.8723 @Tsuchinoko.7546 @Fat Disgrace.4275 @Tycura.1982 @KrHome.1920 @NecroSummonsMors.7816 @Whitworth.7259 @shadowpass.4236 @"saerni.2584"

Took me a bit. Haven't really been in the mood to record lately.

First I want to say that this build is the Staff/Shortbow Condi that people are talking about, but I actually vouched to take Single Pistol with no offhand over Staff. What is the difference? Well I can't stay in the middle of a team fight quite as long as Staff/SB Condi, but what I'm running has a lot more chase potential and ability to secure single target kills. As an old Ranger player, I prefer it that way.

Secondly I wanted to make clear why I posted this video, because this is a temporary video, and will be deleted when this thread is dead:

1. For purposes of debate in this thread.
2. To demonstrate the ridiculously low skill floor that this build possesses. It's debatable whether this is OP or not in high tier play, but 2 things are certain: It is THE lowest skill foor entry build that has ever existed in Guild Wars 2, and it is strong as hell in an organized 5 man team built around condi stack spam cheese play.
3. I do not feel that Staff/Acro Power is a problem, or any Core/DE Acro variant. Survivability is fine when damage is harder to deal or land in general. I feel the problem here is within Deadly Arts poison application frequency and how Shortbow #4 Chocking Gas works in conjunction with it. Also, regardless of if one is using a Staff or Pistol with this, the poison application becomes broken.
   Remember what I mentioned in an earlier post about how beyond 100% poison uptime has a lot of "hidden damage" so to say. The -33% to heal is hidden damage proportionate to how much the target or targets are able to potentially heal.
   If you were attacking a Power Shiro that's not much, but while attacking something like a FB or a Tempest or a Holosmith, that permanent poison application that gets reapplied as soon as it's cleansed, is a lot of hidden damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGHKbBIKwPw

Also want to point out that this build is just busted AF in WvW/PvE where Energy Sigils grant +50% endurance, Adventurer is +50% endurance, Sig of Agility is +100% endurance, Foods with +40% endurance regen, Choking Gas is still only 1s interval between Dazes, Access to these Sigils:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Absorption

and

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Draining

<- actually click that and read what these no CD sigils do for you vs. mobs and large groups of players when you 1vX, and then of course perma AoE weaknes spam. You actually don't need any other weapon other than a Shrotbow with Absorption & Draining in it. You'll never want to swap off that Shortbow because what it is doing with Absorption/Draining is the most powerful kill/survival technique combined into one action, that a Condi Thief can potentially launch on another player. In PvE, this build can EASILY solo anything in the game, so long as it doesn't require mechanics like "4 players need to stand on 4 panels individually to open a door". Nothing in PvE can deal damage to this build. The mobs will stand in your poison pits perma dazing themselves and getting hit with Pulm Strike and the high condi damage in general. If they somehow get past the dazing, then they have perma Weakness spam on them. If they somehow get past the Weakness then the DD has permanent dodging and evading. And then every interrupt on every target, is STEALING 3 boons every time. What? Yup, that's happening. The pve gear stat version of this build can 1vX like no other.

~ Edit: Sorry about 480 upload. Not sure what YouTube did there. Normally it always uploads my videos at 1080. No idea what happened, but I'm not fixing this one because it's just a temp video. I suggest watching it in a smaller box instead of full screen. Looks less kitten that way.

imo this build is worse than condi s/d by dmg and mobility. Survivability prolly as well but bit kind to compare. i wanted to see staff condi, so im disappointed :(

I just finished filming some staff condi games. I am going to upload the gameplay lol.

Okay. I made sure to get several scenarios that show the pros and cons of the build and not just a one sided I win montage.

https://youtu.be/QAqRLlYwKB0

Quite convincing actually, however I think it would be a better showcase of the build if you played most of it while try-hard holding a node vs even a mutliple of people, which is according to some what it's supposed to do, the fight at the mine was like that.

I think you guys are forgetting much earlier in this thread, where we were specifically talking about what this build is capable of in organized 5 man AT play, when it is playing alongside of a condi comp such as: Condi FB Support/Scourge Support/Weaver Side Node/Condi DD/and then w/e 5th you want in the mix. This discussion never began with "Staff Condi DD is OP in general" it began with "Staff Condi DD is being abused in ATs." When it enters team fights with the FB/Scourge or +s the Weaver, the cover condis they all grant each other becomes too much and toxic as all hell. It can carry lower skilled teams to the final rounds easily, who otherwise wouldn't be able to compete within those skill margins with power based builds.

I think people are highly disregarding a player who actually knows how to well use the frequent whirl finishers off Impaling lotus for more than just condi spam. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirl_finisher Impaling Lotus is a condi cleanse machine when team fighting with a FB, and makes a lot of regen when used through water fields.

[saerni.2584]

@Trevor Boyer.6524

If you just use Body Shot/Panic Strike poison ticks you will be cleansed, evaded and do almost no damage. You are way better off with more diverse damaging condi which can tick much harder than 3.5k.

Is this overall an issue with Lotus then? We keep coming back to this trait, and how it interacts with a damage + evade gameplay style that isn’t popular on the forums.

I initially wouldn’t think so because I’d like a smart team to use combo fields rather than just spamming high damage AoEs.it seems like an actual example of skilled play.

But, I can see your point about unintended synergy by giving a finisher that is especially powerful for both offense and defense in a team setting. Compared to the other dodges on Daredevil it just has the best team fight utility.

So it’s not just evade + damage it’s also + utility (heal, cleanse, etc).

What can we brainstorm to make it effective while not being too synergistic? Remove cripple on the Lotus? Reduce its range? I’m trying to get a sense of what you/others actually want and not endorsing either option specifically. I’d love to hear any other option that anyone can come up with.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

I guess we could remove the missiles on Lotus entirely, in exchange for a higher damage spike for evading -through- an enemy.

[shadowpass.4236]

I'm telling you guys that condi staff isn't the build people are abusing for memes in inhouses and ques.

Any good thief players like Anya, Beyond, Helio, etc. etc. can all troll extremely hard on the evade spam build. You don't even have to spam them. However, someone could probably play the build with their eyes closed and still be unable to lose a cap/die in an outnumbered fight. It also has team fight presence with 6k vaults and massive utility (which I won't give away either).

The build is completely stupid to fight against. I refuse to give it away. The slow rate of balance means that if thieves start to run this build next season, ranked is going to be a complete joke.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@shadowpass.4236 said:Not to discredit @"Trevor Boyer.6524"

But I'm telling you guys that condi staff isn't the build people are abusing for memes in inhouses and ques.

Any good thief players like Anya, Beyond, Helio, etc. etc. can all troll extremely hard on the evade spam build. You don't even have to spam the evades. However, someone could probably play the build with their eyes closed and still be unable to lose a cap/die in an outnumbered fight. It also has team fight presence with 6k vaults and massive utility (which I won't give away either).

The build is completely stupid to fight against. I refuse to give it away. The slow rate of balance means that if thieves start to run this build next season, ranked is going to be a complete joke.

c-c

So both condi and power staff(and I guess mainhand solo pistol?) are overperforming, with the former not having a specific mechanic apart from "Extremely effective in teams" for us to have a discussion about, and the latter being so unkillable that someone privy to it wont post a build so it gets fixed?

You're going to have to post the build if you want it fixed @shadowpass.4236 . Otherwise, you're just griping to gripe, because you wont tell us what the problem is. Let it blow up ranked, nobody really expects ranked to be balanced at this point in time anyway, if I can be bluntly pessimistic. And if it is that strong, Anet has shown they can just disable w/e they want if you can narrow down what's sourcing the toxicity. A class not being killable and being able to contest a point 1vX on its own, post rework, usually gets addressed reasonably quickly, given the response time on scrapper.

Going "There's a problem with thief! but I won't tell you!" is the most aggravating thing.

Also why is vault a problem? It's the most telegraphed attack a thief has. Dodge it. Interrupt it right at the end. Even if you get pegged by it for 6k, that's still far from a game changer given the position it puts the thief in.

[saerni.2584]

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm telling you guys that condi staff isn't the build people are abusing for memes in inhouses and ques.

Any good thief players like Anya, Beyond, Helio, etc. etc. can all troll extremely hard on the evade spam build. You don't even have to spam them. However, someone could probably play the build with their eyes closed and still be unable to lose a cap/die in an outnumbered fight. It also has team fight presence with 6k vaults and massive utility (which I won't give away either).

The build is completely stupid to fight against. I refuse to give it away. The slow rate of balance means that if thieves start to run this build next season, ranked is going to be a complete joke.

We can’t have a realistic discussion of a build if we can’t discuss it. I appreciate you wanting to avoid discussing it publicly but Anet won’t just remove a build because a couple of top players can dominate with it. We’d have to show how unfair it is to fight against.

About this non-condi staff? build:

Does it abuse a jumping bug?

Does its team support come from Preparations (new skills) or from older skills.

Does it really have enough evade uptime against ranged damage?

[shadowpass.4236]

I'm not sharing it because there are only a few builds that can even stand on point against it, let alone ones with enough spam to land damage/low ping + instant interrupts that can cc (multiple times, because they have multiple stunbreaks) on the exact frames the thief touches the ground. It's basically impossible to decap one as well unless you're severely outnumbering them.

To answer your questions @"saerni.2584" :

1. Yes, it abuses the jumping bug.
2. Its team support comes from older skills.
3. It is essentially immune to ranged damage and nearly impossible to hit with physical damage or hard/soft cc. It also can heal through any damage taken, very quickly (due to the complete lack of incoming damage) and conditions cannot kill it. The build also scales in effectiveness with the amount of players it's fighting up to a certain point (3-4ish enemies). Although, that goes without saying that the rationing and timing of evades against a single person is much easier and equally as hard to beat. Lastly, its disengage/reset potential is strong, frequent, and extraordinarily difficult to prevent as well.
4. This isn't one of your questions, but a quick change in amulet and/or rune can increase kill potential or tankiness significantly. In my opinion, the tankiness isn't necessary unless you're playing lazily. A player with good reaction times will be just as hard to down on berserker amulet as they would on paladins.

Just read an older post of mine in this thread and watch the timestamp. I'm literally holding my node in a 1v3 at full health for 2 minutes on marauders against a fire weaver, condi mirage, and dragonhunter. I also had random ping spikes of up to 600 at the time so I was mostly spamming. I basically never have ping over 20, so whatever issue was going on prevented me from just killing/downing a few of the people there. Keep in mind, these are the same people that quickly wiped my team at mid. You can also see the amount of damage they are putting out when Kate comes to plus me and loses nearly all of her health in seconds. None of it was touching me.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962https://imgur.com/a/M1Q2W09https://imgur.com/a/RGW45Og

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@saerni.2584 said:@"Trevor Boyer.6524"

If you just use Body Shot/Panic Strike poison ticks you will be cleansed, evaded and do almost no damage. You are way better off with more diverse damaging condi which can tick much harder than 3.5k.

Is this overall an issue with Lotus then? We keep coming back to this trait, and how it interacts with a damage + evade gameplay style that isn’t popular on the forums.

I initially wouldn’t think so because I’d like a smart team to use combo fields rather than just spamming high damage AoEs.it seems like an actual example of skilled play.

But, I can see your point about unintended synergy by giving a finisher that is especially powerful for both offense and defense in a team setting. Compared to the other dodges on Daredevil it just has the best team fight utility.

So it’s not just evade + damage it’s also + utility (heal, cleanse, etc).

What can we brainstorm to make it effective while not being too synergistic? Remove cripple on the Lotus? Reduce its range? I’m trying to get a sense of what you/others actually want and not endorsing either option specifically. I’d love to hear any other option that anyone can come up with.

As I keep trying to point out, this is all only really an issue in organized team play, when synergized with condi comps. Panic Striking through a Poison Field with a 100% projectile finisher as example, is a solid burst when it happens at the same time a FB is applying burn stacks and a Scourge is applying mass cover condis. The poison burst from the Thief alone, going above 20 stacks is absurd for a skill that is locking someone's movement in that situation. People keep saying "but it can't be spammed because it's too high init" which is simply not true. You don't spam Body Shot to begin with, you sort of milk it out each 2s or 3s, whenever it's convenient to place it and land it for a lock down on a called target. It's a very powerful skill, debatably too powerful with DA poison applications and the 100% projectile finisher.

As far as Impaling Lotus, I don't believe this is the problem at all. Honestly, it's just the DA poison application. The DA poison application allows every random auto attack to become a very frequently dangerous short of poison spam. This is typical of condi builds in GW2, which is why people complain about them. They remove counter play. Let me well explain this:

Power Bursts

1. A Spellbreaker as example has 3 or 4 attacks to primarily watch out for, not counting Rampage. You have GS#3,, GSF1, DF1, Full Counter, and then of course Rampage. Other attacks are sort of fillers, but don't hold as much ease of hit quality or damage combo linking power as the above. So as such, a player can actively use their brain to interpret when these attacks are inc, and counter play. The telegraphs are fair.
2. The timing & usage of dodge rolls & defense CDs matters greatly vs. the Spellbreaker. If a player can properly counter play the above mentioned attacks, the Spellbreaker will be dealing little damage, and the 1v1 will be manageable. However, if the person lacks mechanical skill & knowledge, they'll get hit by all of those attacks and be easily rolled by the Spellbreaker. The Spellbreaker as a mechanical entity in Guild Wars 2 encourages skillful gameplay, because the use of a player's dodge rolls & defensive CDs, when they are used or not used, or if they are wasted or well timed, makes all of the difference.

Condi Bursts

1. A Condi DD as example, is equally dangerous with every single attack that it does. Every single thing that it does, including auto attacks and even dodge rolling, procs Deadly Arts poison stacking. Every other weapon skill that it has also is stacking a very consistent and moderated level of condition stacking. Nothing is a "Filler" on a Condi DD. Everything that is used is consistently stacking condi and/or actively being used as a defensive mechanism that also spams condi. There are little telegraphs to avoid because literally everything it does, is stacking an equal amount of condi in a very consistent fashion.
2. Because of the very consistent condi application from every single thing that it does, there are no telegraphs to avoid. This is because it doesn't matter if a player dodges now or later, or cleanses now or later. It doesn't matter because the player will be taking the same amount of damage regardless of if he dodges now or later, due to the paced & consistent condi application that is not a burst, but rather sustained damage that is equally distributed amongst every action the build has. Most condi builds that have existed in GW2 function sort of like this, which is what people are feeling when they complain about it, though they may not be as good at wording it as I am. Condi spam builds like this with random condi application that tags itself onto everything that a build does, removes counter play. A player cannot identify that "Ok, there are 3 or 4 main attacks that I need to make sure I avoid, and hopefully this guy isn't good at baiting me into them." No, when you dodge roll now or later doesn't matter because the damage is the same from everything the Condi DD is doing. What ends up mattering the most, is spamming defensive skills immediately as they come of CD as to maximize your damage mitigation vs. the build that has equal distribution of damage output on everything that it does, including dodge rolling. This kind of gameplay may be debatable if it is OP, but it is certainly toxic and making the game more about spamming and less about thinking about if it is a good or not to waste a CD right now, or later. It promotes less skillful gameplay. When the game is designed this way, the person who wins the 1v1 is the person wielding the build that has the stronger overall attributes across the class concerning damage output & sustain vs. damage output & sustain. This is what makes pvp feel more boring. Whereas on the other hand, a very exciting 1v1 that can go any direction at any time, is a high power burst meta where you have something like a Spellbreaker vs. a Power Soulbeast. Either of those classes & players could make a clutch play at 10% health and down their opponent immediately if he is caught off guard. This kind of gameplay feels good, because the true skill of a player really shows through means of juking & baiting & being able to read & anticipate telegraphs. This type of gameplay is much less present however, in say the worst case scenario of Condi DD vs. Condi DD. You don't see condi 1v1s turn around from 10% health guy clutch kills the 90% health guy. No, and there are many reasons why this isn't typical during condi metas.

Arenanet had removed sigils of Air & Fire & Blood for the exact reasons that I just discussed. You probably remember years ago in the forums, people complaining about such effects lowering the skill level required to play the game, and they were correct to do so. But lately, Arenanet is reenabling such effects, which is dumbing the game down again and removing counter play that would otherwise distinguish the good players from the bad. This is a great example: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Ambition + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potent_Poison I mean this is happening with auto attacks & dodge rolling. Come on now, this is worse than Air & Fire ever was. The strength behind these kinds of effects that work on autos & dodge rolling, is that the autos become something dangerous that is worthy of dodge rolling or using defensive CDs on, which isn't cool. It isn't cool because when a class/build can do this vs. a class/build that does not have dangerous autos, the one with the dangerous autos can bait his opponents CDs before even dipping into his resources. But the opponent who is against the dangerous autos is just being forced to cycle through his CDs quickly, to defend and to equal his opponent's damage output. Simply put, it's too much advantage to have effects that work on everything that you do, whether it be Air & Fire sigils or Deadly Arts poison stacking that works when you $%^&ing dodge roll something.

If it were up to me, this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadly_Ambition needs a change in mechanics. A few ideas:

• Maybe it should only work with weapon attacks.
• Maybe it needs a 5s CD instead of only a 2s CD
• Maybe it should be lowered from a 3s CD to a 2s CD
• I don't know, you tell me.

Aside from every Thief main wanting to argue with me, "I love you guys I really do," this build is encouraging braindead less skilled gameplay. Sorry, but it is. And furthermore, we need less power/boon/defense creeping and more balancing vs. the classes that were already outperforming.

Just my opinion. Hate me hate me, I still love you.

[foste.3098]

He is just spamming debilitating arch while jumping and chaining dodge rolls with it, while maintaining initiative with upper hand, roll for initiative and using smoke screen to get some breathing room.(i surmise smoke screen because he said the build is immune to ranged damage, which bdw is not true; just try to reflect axe 2 from necromancers and see what happens. For anyone who doesn't know smoke screen got an update and now pulses blindness in a large aoe for 7 seconds each seconds meaning that it is extremely hard to hit anything within it for the duration and it also blocks projectiles.).Endurance is maintained with vigor, signet of agility, sigils of energy, staff master, and if he wants to go all the way rune of the adventurer;other rune options include rune of sanctuary because it has amazing synergy with assassin's reward (swapped from upper hand) and escapist's fortitude, rune of the flock to supercharge the healing skill, rune of speed to make kiting easier, and literally any power rune.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAYVlNw6YXMQGJmaXrNbA-z5IeIZqC6VIUwEwVDAThere you go lads, mystery solved. Other than the smoke screen this build is nothing new to daredevil; in the past i used to play a valkyrie staff daredevil with rune of the daredevil and use dodge followed by a guaranteed crit afterwards. The only difference is that now daredevils have access to more condition cleanse due to trait merging, but this is hardly making it op.As i said before a dozen times staff is not a good pvp weapon, scroll up and read my previous posts in this thread.

EDIT: this is in response to shadowpass and his claims to a power staff acro build that holds a node for 2 min in a 3 vs 1 scenario.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@shadowpass.4236 said:I'm not sharing it because there are only a few builds that can even stand on point against it, let alone ones with enough spam to land damage/low ping + instant interrupts that can cc (multiple times, because they have multiple stunbreaks) on the exact frames the thief touches the ground. It's basically impossible to decap one as well unless you're severely outnumbering them.

To answer your questions @"saerni.2584" :

1. Yes, it abuses the jumping bug.
2. Its team support comes from older skills.
3. It is essentially immune to ranged damage and nearly impossible to hit with physical damage or hard/soft cc. It also can heal through any damage taken, very quickly (due to the complete lack of incoming damage) and conditions cannot kill it. The build also scales in effectiveness with the amount of players it's fighting up to a certain point (3-4ish enemies). Although, that goes without saying that the rationing and timing of evades against a single person is much easier and equally as hard to beat. Lastly, its disengage/reset potential is strong, frequent, and extraordinarily difficult to prevent as well.
4. This isn't one of your questions, but a quick change in amulet and/or rune can increase kill potential or tankiness significantly. In my opinion, the tankiness isn't necessary unless you're playing lazily. A player with good reaction times will be just as hard to down on berserker amulet as they would on paladins.

Just read an older post of mine in this thread and watch the timestamp. I'm literally holding my node in a 1v3 at full health for 2 minutes on marauders against a fire weaver, condi mirage, and dragonhunter. I also had random ping spikes of up to 600 at the time so I was mostly spamming. I basically never have ping over 20, so whatever issue was going on prevented me from just killing/downing a few of the people there. Keep in mind, these are the same people that quickly wiped my team at mid. You can also see the amount of damage they are putting out when Kate comes to plus me and loses nearly all of her health in seconds. None of it was touching me.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1009962#Comment_1009962https://imgur.com/a/M1Q2W09https://imgur.com/a/RGW45Og

You also have made comments about 1 v 3 on your ranger, and you actually made kills.

You also said you were not using the sicem kit.

I wonder if 1 v 3 while making kills is OP versus trolling guys who don't walk away.

Essentially, this build doesn't exist.

You, Anya, Helio....ect could probably do this on most kits.

Let's not get carried away.

P.s.

You have given enough comments for me to have more clues as to how it is built.

We know you are on marauders. you have to be in dd/trick/acro

you said quick CD stunbreaks.

immune to ranged? i think about DS...i doubt smokescreen

probably using bandits, rfi, the other is ___

just a few trait picks, one utility, and the rune is all we need to figure out.

and if it's double staff, staff/ s/p, or staff sb (i'm doubting sb because in the video you didn't bow away, and staff was stowed on your back)

[saerni.2584]

@Trevor Boyer.6524

The cooldown on Deadly Ambition is already 5 seconds in WvW/PvP.

Edit:

I’d also state I’m not saying “no don't nerf my Body Shot” as much as “Meh I don’t use it because that would be a damage loss even if I took Panic Strike.”

Is Lotus a 100% chance on the finisher? It’s been a while since I’ve played Daredevil...that might be a potential way to tone it down slightly without gutting it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Aside from every Thief main wanting to argue with me, "I love you guys I really do," this build is encouraging braindead less skilled gameplay. Sorry, but it is. And furthermore, we need less power/boon/defense creeping and more balancing vs. the classes that were already outperforming.

Just my opinion. Hate me hate me, I still love you

Just an aside, nobody here atm is attacking you personally or viewing you negatively because of your assertions here. This is how things get sorted out, especially when you have class mains involved.Your recording work is appreciated. A couple of people here are just scratching their heads trying to figure out why the current condi balancing is overpowered because of its team utility.

[shadowpass.4236]

@foste.3098

Not bad, but only half of it is correct.

@Crab Fear.1624

Mm that's a little different. I'm a ranger main. I've been playing it since release so you'd expect at this point, I'd be good enough to handle/win outnumbered fights if everything goes according to plan. On the other hand, I rarely play thief. I haven't really touched it since daredevil was OP at HoT release. I shouldn't be holding/winning outnumbered fights consistently on this class (strictly from an experience/practice standpoint). If I'm able to pull these feats off (which I was also able to do on builds like CI mirage, despite not having extensive training on it) there's an issue.

That's not saying that players like Anya, Helio, and I can't be effective on a multitude of different classes and play them how they should be played. My point is, we shouldn't be able to roll over/troll 3/5 members of the enemy team indefinitely without really trying just because there's a broken build that's easy to abuse.

Also, that was my intention. I'll give hints. However, I'm not just going to post the build for every other thief to copy and paste and ruin the next ranked season. You guessed correctly on a lot of them, incorrectly on others. I won't say which ones until there's (an extremely unlikely) dev response that lets us know that the build will be addressed.

Furthermore, this is besides the point. But, the build is very versatile and fun to play (albeit having a very low skill floor to be effective). So, I will gladly be shelving my ranger and taking advantage of this next season as I predict others will as well. Hopefully, then, it will get fixed.