Whats the current meta for WvW?

[UNOwen.7132]

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.

[aspirine.6852]

blob, zerg, blob...

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

[UNOwen.7132]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy fucks up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy kitten up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

I don't know, it works pretty well I find, and I beat people on all sorts of builds with it. Your milage may vary.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy kitten up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

I don't know, it works pretty well I find, and I beat people on all sorts of builds with it. Your milage may vary.

I mean in WvW you find a lot of people who are either undergeared or just not paying attention, but I dont tend to consider those since you can beat them on any build, really. The good ones, the ones that have been 1v1ing people for a while and know their stuff however? You cant beat them as deadeye. Its just a lost cause. The build isnt good enough.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy kitten up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

I don't know, it works pretty well I find, and I beat people on all sorts of builds with it. Your milage may vary.

I mean in WvW you find a lot of people who are either undergeared or just not paying attention, but I dont tend to consider those since you can beat them on any build, really. The good ones, the ones that have been 1v1ing people for a while and know their stuff however? You cant beat them as deadeye. Its just a lost cause. The build isnt good enough.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely opponents you can't kill in a fair fight on deadeye, but in all honesty you shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with people in a fair fight in the first place on thief. Thief in general isn't a top tier roamer anymore like it used to be, holosmith rev DH soulbeast and condi mirage all far outstrip deadeye's capabilities as a duellist and in 1vX, and it doesn't help that two of those specs are pretty hard counters to thief in general. Quite frankly tho, for some of those classes that's more of a balance issue on their end than it is to do with thief, and there isn't that much difference between playing core or DE with S/D; it's more about using what you have and outplaying the guy behind the keyboard than brute forcing a build.

It's like your previous comment; I agree, skirmisher's shot is higher DPS than spotter's shot. But that's utterly irrelevant if you're building in such a way that the DJ finishes the fight, and it's also contradictory to your point that DJ is the only thing worth dodging because that's where the damage is. If you're building to end the fight with DJ, the facts that with quickness you can fire a DJ before spotter's shot lands, that the DJ will land before the 1s immob from spotter's shot wears off, and that spotter's shot gives fury which enables the bonus ferocity from no quarter for higher damage are all highly significant, as this either forces the opponent to use cooldowns or it ends the fight there and then. Same with binding shadow; used on it's own, it only forces a stunbreak, but if timed so it knocks down the opponent as the DJ is firing, it can prevent the enemy from dodging and leave them with insufficient reaction time to properly defend themselves. There's only a few skills in the game that can deal with an immob, a stun and prevent DJ from landing all at the same time, and all of them have higher cooldowns than the 3s reveal counter, so you're generally better off using the immob from spotter's to force cooldowns so it's more likely that binding shadow will end the fight. I do agree with you, spamming skirmisher's shot and hoping for a DJ hit with M7 isn't going to cut it with experienced opponents, you need to vary your attacks and tactics much more than that to create those opportunities, and expect that the fight isn't going to be over in one burst.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy kitten up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

I don't know, it works pretty well I find, and I beat people on all sorts of builds with it. Your milage may vary.

I mean in WvW you find a lot of people who are either undergeared or just not paying attention, but I dont tend to consider those since you can beat them on any build, really. The good ones, the ones that have been 1v1ing people for a while and know their stuff however? You cant beat them as deadeye. Its just a lost cause. The build isnt good enough.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely opponents you can't kill in a fair fight on deadeye, but in all honesty you shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with people in a fair fight in the first place on thief. Thief in general isn't a top tier roamer anymore like it used to be, holosmith rev DH soulbeast and condi mirage all far outstrip deadeye's capabilities as a duellist and in 1vX, and it doesn't help that two of those specs are pretty hard counters to thief in general. Quite frankly tho, for some of those classes that's more of a balance issue on their end than it is to do with thief, and there isn't that much difference between playing core or DE with S/D; it's more about using what you have and outplaying the guy behind the keyboard than brute forcing a build.

It's like your previous comment; I agree, skirmisher's shot is higher DPS than spotter's shot. But that's utterly irrelevant if you're building in such a way that the DJ finishes the fight, and it's also contradictory to your point that DJ is the only thing worth dodging because that's where the damage is. If you're building to end the fight with DJ, the facts that with quickness you can fire a DJ before spotter's shot lands, that the DJ will land before the 1s immob from spotter's shot wears off, and that spotter's shot gives fury which enables the bonus ferocity from no quarter for higher damage are all highly significant, as this either forces the opponent to use cooldowns or it ends the fight there and then. Same with binding shadow; used on it's own, it only forces a stunbreak, but if timed so it knocks down the opponent as the DJ is firing, it can prevent the enemy from dodging and leave them with insufficient reaction time to properly defend themselves. There's only a few skills in the game that can deal with an immob, a stun and prevent DJ from landing all at the same time, and all of them have higher cooldowns than the 3s reveal counter, so you're generally better off using the immob from spotter's to force cooldowns so it's more likely that binding shadow will end the fight. I do agree with you, spamming skirmisher's shot and hoping for a DJ hit with M7 isn't going to cut it with experienced opponents, you need to vary your attacks and tactics much more than that to create those opportunities, and expect that the fight isn't going to be over in one burst.

There are a lot, actually. Any Stunbreak thats an evade, block, damage immunity or even just a blink. Far as I know, the meta roaming build for every single class uses one such skill. And sure, they have a cooldown, but so does binding shadow. Youre not gonna get anyone with that unless they chose an unfortunate build. And spotters shot is too slow of a cast time to combo with DJ, so the best you can do is hope that they ran out of condi cleanse/immob breaking as well as ran out of all defensive cooldowns. Which they wont have. And the thing is, spamming Skirmisher's shot while not good, is still the single best way to play Deadeye. Because the rest is worse. Itd be a different story if three round burst wasnt hilariously overnerfed, or if spotters shot wasnt a downgrade to skirmishers shot, but unfortunately, thats how it is. Though honestly I do like that kneel is not just optional, but suboptimal in WvW. I wouldnt mind if we changed kneel skills from "just straight up better" to "different use cases" with the baseline skills having as much damage as kneel skills but less utility.

[lare.5129]

if you play on wvw like me without any squad or only create own squad - don't be worry about any meta

[Dediggefedde.4961]

Just engineers. A whole squad of scrappers and holos. Actually works. ;)Or a whole squad of minion masters to make the enemy servers crash...

[Elf Lord.8962]

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Deadeye, you have to be very very good, or you dead.

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Deadeye, you have to be very very good, or you dead.

Ay

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

Its kinda bad, yeah. Your only skill that does any real damage is deaths judgment, which you wont hit against any enemy paying attention since its so telegraphed. However, if youre roaming with some other peeps who have CC to setup your deaths judgment, it at least works fine.Binding shadow, immob from spotter's shot, counting dodges or timing the DJ for the end of dodges all work. Celerity sigil on rifle with daze on mark from slight of hand works wonders. Also people tend to rotate blocks defensively when they run out of other tools, so interrupting with mark often gives you a window to land it. Using S/D offhand gives you a reliable way to build malice Vs block heavy opponents. Some opponents like holosmith and ele are very dependant on protection, so sometimes using your ini to kite and using DJ as soon as reveal allows for the boonsteal with rending shade can wear them down enough that they're killable. Honestly, DE has amazing damage when full glass, but it's much stronger if you don't go all one trick pony in my opinion.@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really badIt's not a bad spec, it gets a lot of hate though as it's a stealthy assassin spec that attacks from range and that tends to rub people the wrong way. It can be predictable if you only go for the one shot, as I said above, a lot of getting good with the spec is knowing different ways of getting your DJ to land against different opponents and tailoring your build to fit your playstyle. There's several deadeye mains on the thief forums, and most of us play the spec in very different ways. I build for boonsteal and for a sustained attack rather than outright instagibbing someone, and for both evade and stealth access so I'm not too dependant on either. Try it out, for yourself, and if you're struggling just post in the thief forums and someone will help you out :)

You dont use spotters shot because its just worse than skirmishers shot damage-wise (by a huge margin) and too easily dodged to rely on the immob, binding shadow just eats a stunbreak, and you wont be doing a whole lot of counting dodges since they have no reason to dodge anything but your deaths judgment (since it does all of your kits damage), same for trying to time on the end of a dodge they have no reason to go for. Quickness doesnt help since even with it, Deaths Judgment leaves enough time to just dodge roll. S/D with a Deadeye build (and no steal) just means that while youre trying to build malice with it, you already lost. The optimal way to play DE is spam skirmishers shot (since its the highest damage skill with the best initiative economy) while running malificent seven, and hope that the enemy kitten up real bad and your DJ hits. Usually it doesnt. Or you just roam with other classes on actually good builds that that they set up your DJs. But yeah, DE is bad. It only works against players with either bad builds, or really slow reaction times, and even then it usually doesnt. And I say that as someone who runs DE in WvW (mainly because Im too lazy to swap weapons when I go from PvE to WvW).

I don't know, it works pretty well I find, and I beat people on all sorts of builds with it. Your milage may vary.

I mean in WvW you find a lot of people who are either undergeared or just not paying attention, but I dont tend to consider those since you can beat them on any build, really. The good ones, the ones that have been 1v1ing people for a while and know their stuff however? You cant beat them as deadeye. Its just a lost cause. The build isnt good enough.

Don't get me wrong, there's definitely opponents you can't kill in a fair fight on deadeye, but in all honesty you shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with people in a fair fight in the first place on thief. Thief in general isn't a top tier roamer anymore like it used to be, holosmith rev DH soulbeast and condi mirage all far outstrip deadeye's capabilities as a duellist and in 1vX, and it doesn't help that two of those specs are pretty hard counters to thief in general. Quite frankly tho, for some of those classes that's more of a balance issue on their end than it is to do with thief, and there isn't that much difference between playing core or DE with S/D; it's more about using what you have and outplaying the guy behind the keyboard than brute forcing a build.

It's like your previous comment; I agree, skirmisher's shot is higher DPS than spotter's shot. But that's utterly irrelevant if you're building in such a way that the DJ finishes the fight, and it's also contradictory to your point that DJ is the only thing worth dodging because that's where the damage is. If you're building to end the fight with DJ, the facts that with quickness you can fire a DJ before spotter's shot lands, that the DJ will land before the 1s immob from spotter's shot wears off, and that spotter's shot gives fury which enables the bonus ferocity from no quarter for higher damage are all highly significant, as this either forces the opponent to use cooldowns or it ends the fight there and then. Same with binding shadow; used on it's own, it only forces a stunbreak, but if timed so it knocks down the opponent as the DJ is firing, it can prevent the enemy from dodging and leave them with insufficient reaction time to properly defend themselves. There's only a few skills in the game that can deal with an immob, a stun and prevent DJ from landing all at the same time, and all of them have higher cooldowns than the 3s reveal counter, so you're generally better off using the immob from spotter's to force cooldowns so it's more likely that binding shadow will end the fight. I do agree with you, spamming skirmisher's shot and hoping for a DJ hit with M7 isn't going to cut it with experienced opponents, you need to vary your attacks and tactics much more than that to create those opportunities, and expect that the fight isn't going to be over in one burst.

There are a lot, actually. Any Stunbreak thats an evade, block, damage immunity or even just a blink. Far as I know, the meta roaming build for every single class uses one such skill. And sure, they have a cooldown, but so does binding shadow. Youre not gonna get anyone with that unless they chose an unfortunate build. And spotters shot is too slow of a cast time to combo with DJ, so the best you can do is hope that they ran out of condi cleanse/immob breaking as well as ran out of all defensive cooldowns. Which they wont have. And the thing is, spamming Skirmisher's shot while not good, is still the single best way to play Deadeye. Because the rest is worse. Itd be a different story if three round burst wasnt hilariously overnerfed, or if spotters shot wasnt a downgrade to skirmishers shot, but unfortunately, thats how it is. Though honestly I do like that kneel is not just optional, but suboptimal in WvW. I wouldnt mind if we changed kneel skills from "just straight up better" to "different use cases" with the baseline skills having as much damage as kneel skills but less utility.

I agree with you on three round burst, that is hilariously overnerfed and for the most part pretty pointless to use. I also think the kneel skills could be better. From experience though, I know the stuff I said about combining spotter's shot, binding shadow and DJ works because I land it every time I play, it's all about timing. I'm not saying that deadeye is OP, just that it's not quite as one dimensional as you're saying, and that if you're relying on DJ to kill the opponent, you have to assess the other skills in terms of utility, it's not always about damage. Like using spotter's shot from max range repeatedly vs a daredevil to force exhaustion from dash and run them down on endurance, if you play the long game you'd be surprised what works. Maybe I'm just an optimist, who knows :p

[Aeolus.3615]

@Dediggefedde.4961 said:Just engineers. A whole squad of scrappers and holos. Actually works. ;)Or a whole squad of minion masters to make the enemy servers crash...

War Machine runned 30 engines, even the pvd from turrets and all that engie spam was more effective than rams.

Quite funny.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

[Vieux P.1238]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

[Strider Pj.2193]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

[Aeolus.3615]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

And when u know people that say wow graphics are wayyy over gw2 graphics.. ._. maybe what was said above its true.

[Dediggefedde.4961]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@"Dediggefedde.4961" said:Just engineers. A whole squad of scrappers and holos. Actually works. ;)Or a whole squad of minion masters to make the enemy servers crash...

War Machine runned 30 engines, even the pvd from turrets and all that engie spam was more effective than rams.

Quite funny.

Of the old days of scrapper-F5 and before the dzago bandwagon. (public event)

[Vieux P.1238]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

And when u know people that say wow graphics are wayyy over gw2 graphics.. ._. maybe what was said above its true.

who said that? put in the Quote plz?

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@ShadowOme.4528 said:what do you guys think of deadeye? iv been thinking of trying that but peopel say its really bad

I kill deadeyes if they don’t run fast enough.

[coro.3176]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

And when u know people that say wow graphics are wayyy over gw2 graphics.. ._. maybe what was said above its true.

who said that? put in the Quote plz?

so.. should I play hunter or rogue?

[Vieux P.1238]

@coro.3176 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

And when u know people that say wow graphics are wayyy over gw2 graphics.. ._. maybe what was said above its true.

who said that? put in the Quote plz?

so.. should I play hunter or rogue?

I can't say much about demon hunters cuz i havent play em that much. Rogue is really trolly and deadly in good hands of a good pvp player. Was busted a few times.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@ShadowOme.4528 said:

@Vieux P.1238 said:The current meta in WvW is WoW classic..

so slow and clunky?I'm confused, are you talking about the gameplay of WoWC or the ongoing development efforts of GW2?

If you don't get it, i can actually say WoW your brain...I see that you are not a friend of sarcasm B).

Its..

The...

Forums....

So.......

And when u know people that say wow graphics are wayyy over gw2 graphics.. ._. maybe what was said above its true.

who said that? put in the Quote plz?

Was actually a friend of mine... :/ I was asking why he was stoping playing gw2.