Undo the level-requirement changes for the Effect-Armor

[Missad.8495]

Apart from shutting it down completely, it seems as if ANET is doing everything in their power to drive people out of WvW. There is literally no justifiable reason to play it anymore. You have bots running around everywhere, no rewards for ranking up, no rewards for winning matches and the one real reason to stick around until rank 2k at least has been smashed. sigh

[Zok.4956]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:Finally, the stated purpose of this change seems quite weird. It would've been so much easier to do something with the grandmaster mark shards so it doesn't take a minimum of 67 weeks to earn a tier 1 ascended armor.

Yes, that is also something I do not understand. Why does Anet not make ascended armor/weapons easier to obtain in WvW?

[Counter Terrorist.7421]

Well first it was music boxes becoming tradable now it's the WvW armor becoming starters gear. In gw2 you shall never work for anything it will become common and easy to obtain. Now I'll just wait on -75% discount rank required for god of WvW perhaps 2023. Don't forget adding tradable pvp gizmos as well or add em in black lion chests while you're at it nice little exclusive to chase monthly to the corresponding month. There is so few people gaining those and you put so much effort into adding em into game it should totally be available for everyone as well. That's my 2 cents.

[urd.8306]

"Starter Gear". 1000 hours in a game mode for only being able to purchase and you still lack most of the materials after those 1000 hours. Let's not get carried away here.

Funny, when you imagine that most of the people here crying about the change made their ranks in old EotM or by PPT all night vs. mighty doors.

[Counter Terrorist.7421]

@"diomache.9246" said:"Starter Gear". 1000 hours in a game mode for only being able to purchase and you still lack most of the materials after those 1000 hours. Let's not get carried away here.

Funny, when you imagine that most of the people here crying about the change made their ranks in old EotM or by PPT all night vs. mighty doors.

I dunno about you're standards but I don't consider 1000hours spent as experienced any more, in my opinion it's sort of a good start. But at the same time I highly doubt it be taking anything close to 1000hours. 500 ranks and whatever skirmish tickets needed can't be that much in waiting time. That just sounds like inefficiency too me but what do I know I'm just a old veteran. All I know is I won't call it any prestige any more and I wont really weild mine. I just transmute it too whatever it lost it's special status.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@ASP.8093 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:This isn't about a skin. It's the removal of goals, it's about giving out a reward just for showing up, its dumbing down games to be playable on phones, its catering to the microwave generation that needs to have it all now. It's about people spin-doctoring things as if its a positive change when there is all the more that's not done, but now there is an item that can be added to a powerpoint that says, see what we have given you as a value. And it's about mis-information which in today's world is rampant.

I dunno, tying stuff to WvW rank feels like the epitome of "giving out a reward just for showing up" in the first place.

If you spent hours PvDooring for more efficient WXP gain instead of doing something more fun with your WvW time just to get the armor, I feel bad for you and all. But the cranky nonsense Hard-Working WvW Veterans are spouting right now about #goals and work ethic over making some numbers go up in a video game is straight-up comical.

Who is trying to stuff WvW ranks in? I already said the game was over as soon as you reach the level to unlock all skills. So you are happy that ANet spent time on this versus delivering to you some content for WvW? Do you work for them?

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Solanum.6983 said:I can only see this as a net positive.I get that they've now lost some of their exclusivity but honestly making them more obtainable to everyone is a good thing. WvW lacks the rewards other gamemodes have and with this things to keep new players playing, I don't think many people were going to grind to 2,000 just for a set of skins they can already get just without a glowy effect. At least now they've become a more obtainable reason to stay in WvW.

Again, how does this impact new players? It doesn't? The skin isn't that good, why do people think people were WvWing just for this skin. I know no one that WvWers that is working for that skin by itself. Does any of the posters here do? Or were they working toward that skin since they thought they needed it for Legendary armor?

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:What exactly is the reason to play between level 500 & 10000 now? For the already terrible rewards? For meeting new toxic friends? Or an title that doesnt to anything (it dont even give Accountpoints)?Can i refund my time?

The change forces you to spend less time in a mode you don't even like to get rewards that are the only reason you're there in the first place...

And this is a problem?

I'm going to need you to break this down further because I'm not following the logic

What reward? A reward that will be available in the black lion chest? Head to PvE where you will be paid more per hour and start converting gold to gems and you will get there faster. WvW because you enjoy it, not for mah skin.

[Spartacus.3192]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@"Strages.2950" said:If you're only playing WvW for the rewards I really do feel bad for you. It's the only reason I can think of anyone being upset about this change. The armor itself, shiny or otherwise, looks like kitten. If you think having that particular armor will give you some sort of status, you're just... wrong. Nobody gives a kitten what you're wearing. If anything your WvW Rank itself is more of a status symbol (and even that's minor) than whatever shiny thing you're using to drop my frames.

Well said. I was literally going to say exactly the same thing. +1The only time i even bother to look at what anyone is wearing is when im at the TP or bank and someone stands next to me and even then its obscured by the interface.. 99.9% of the time i almost would rather have standard models on since ANET added so much visual clutter and server/game lag is so bad.

Your right, you both don't get it.

This isn't about a skin. It's the removal of goals, it's about giving out a reward just for showing up, its dumbing down games to be playable on phones, its catering to the microwave generation that needs to have it all now. It's about people spin-doctoring things as if its a positive change when there is all the more that's not done, but now there is an item that can be added to a powerpoint that says, see what we have given you as a value. And it's about mis-information which in today's world is rampant.

So, it's not one issue about a skin.

If ANet wanted to help new players and vets at the same time then increase the rewards so that both new players and vets had materials needed to craft legendary armor. Instead they just removed a goal on a skin that wasn't needed for legendary armor. For Fashion War players they reduce requirements to unlock a skin. Which as you said you don't need.

But for goal seekers it was something extra they might have been going for and now its done. No goals meet, game over because the goal is no longer in game. People are going to play the game as long as they find it fun. Goal seekers are going to play the game as long it is fun and even longer when they have goals to work towards. You want new players and you want vets. WvW is endgame and the more you reduce goals to be meet, it's more of the end of the game since there is nothing to do or work towards and it's sooner that people are off to other games.

Level means nothing after you unlock all abilities, winning means nothing, it resets weekly. Maps haven't changed, no new lands to fight over, alliances ........(.....) balance......., new elites? I like that we have legendary armor to work towards. Have crafted three sets. Not happy that if they go thru with the legendary armory they talked about that I may now already be done with that goal. Had planned on I had 20+ more sets to go. Doesn't mean I can't still but it does reduce the motivation to do so. It's good to not put people that are late to the game into outright disadvantage but you need goals for both new players and vets and just moving the goal post to the 'your done' mark for new players too means we are all already at end of game.

So it's about, what are they really working on because this was our content patch for this go around, and are you really ok with that was your content release? Was the only thing you were looking for was change so that you could get a skin that you weren't going for anyway? How are you not irritated by this? Make more sense why some us are posting?

I guess you're right. I dont get it. The only reason i cared about levels was for the ability points so i could use AC's vendor, trebs better etc.For me WvW is just better PvP content and i play it exclusively for the "fights" be it roaming/small groups or zergs.To that extent the only thing that made me "grind" was for legendary armor because i love to theory craft and change stats etc without having to make multiple ascended sets. I also have 2 heavy sets and 1 med set of legendary but i will be over the moon if/when ANET releases Legendary Armory because right now i have 1 heavy set on my war and another on my rev. My guardian doesnt have one and im too lazy to keep switching between toons since you lose all your equipment template builds each time.

Sorry if you're upset about it but as you can see some people are truly depressed about it while others couldnt care less.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Solanum.6983 said:I can only see this as a net positive.I get that they've now lost some of their exclusivity but honestly making them more obtainable to everyone is a good thing. WvW lacks the rewards other gamemodes have and with this things to keep new players playing, I don't think many people were going to grind to 2,000 just for a set of skins they can already get just without a glowy effect. At least now they've become a more obtainable reason to stay in WvW.

Again, how does this impact new players? It doesn't? The skin isn't that good, why do people think people were WvWing just for this skin. I know no one that WvWers that is working for that skin by itself. Does any of the posters here do? Or were they working toward that skin since they thought they needed it for Legendary armor?

Well the real advantage of those was you can bypass crafting (marks are also severely overpriced) and mistforged triumphant is mostly paid in tickets. When Heroics were cheaper, that was actually the more cost effective choice, though they have gotten more expensive since I made them.

Of course, new players probably aren't aiming for ascended, much less legendary, especially if they're even thinking of having more than 1 toon, so I think this is all moot. The recent warlord's boxes has been very good for getting newer players geared.

if anyone wants to complain about anything, it's that Anet has abandoned the rank system not unlike badges (much like they abandon 90% of the stuff in this game) instead of revamping it. The game has long shifted to reward tracks and pips, and rank is mostly a relic-- heck you can't even display it to your own server mates. If they truly cared, they would have revamped the whole rank progression thing, adding achievements and rewards (as well as retroactive rewards for people that already passed), but instead we have a non-change that doesn't really do anything, which is a good summary of the game direction as a whole currently. One should direct their frustration at that, rather at hypothetical unworthy people that are somehow going to grind a legendary as the first thing they do in WvW.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:.... If they truly cared

This is why anet fails - they stopped caring

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:.... If they truly cared

This is why anet fails - they stopped caring

lol, no disagreement here.

To be fair, even pve seems to have tried up with only lackluster living story episodes meant for gem sales. No raids, and maybe 1 upcoming fractal that is nowhere to be seen. after a drought of 1.5 years. Pretty much any content that is supposed to be a challenge (err... relatively speaking, or what's left of it) is dead.

And then when you consider WvW has always been fourth fiddle, and PvP is now just botland, we just don't stand a chance.

[devastoscz.9851]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@Strages.2950 said:If you're only playing WvW for the rewards I really do feel bad for you. It's the only reason I can think of anyone being upset about this change. The armor itself, shiny or otherwise, looks like kitten. If you think having that particular armor will give you some sort of status, you're just... wrong. Nobody gives a kitten what you're wearing. If anything your WvW Rank itself is more of a status symbol (and even that's minor) than whatever shiny thing you're using to drop my frames.

Well said. I was literally going to say exactly the same thing. +1The only time i even bother to look at what anyone is wearing is when im at the TP or bank and someone stands next to me and even then its obscured by the interface.. 99.9% of the time i almost would rather have standard models on since ANET added so much visual clutter and server/game lag is so bad.

Your right, you both don't get it.

This isn't about a skin. It's the removal of goals, it's about giving out a reward just for showing up, its dumbing down games to be playable on phones, its catering to the microwave generation that needs to have it all now. It's about people spin-doctoring things as if its a positive change when there is all the more that's not done, but now there is an item that can be added to a powerpoint that says, see what we have given you as a value. And it's about mis-information which in today's world is rampant.

So, it's not one issue about a skin.

If ANet wanted to help new players and vets at the same time then increase the rewards so that both new players and vets had materials needed to craft legendary armor. Instead they just removed a goal on a skin that wasn't needed for legendary armor. For Fashion War players they reduce requirements to unlock a skin. Which as you said you don't need.

But for goal seekers it was something extra they might have been going for and now its done. No goals meet, game over because the goal is no longer in game. People are going to play the game as long as they find it fun. Goal seekers are going to play the game as long it is fun and even longer when they have goals to work towards. You want new players and you want vets. WvW is endgame and the more you reduce goals to be meet, it's more of the end of the game since there is nothing to do or work towards and it's sooner that people are off to other games.

Level means nothing after you unlock all abilities, winning means nothing, it resets weekly. Maps haven't changed, no new lands to fight over, alliances ........(.....) balance......., new elites? I like that we have legendary armor to work towards. Have crafted three sets. Not happy that if they go thru with the legendary armory they talked about that I may now already be done with that goal. Had planned on I had 20+ more sets to go. Doesn't mean I can't still but it does reduce the motivation to do so. It's good to not put people that are late to the game into outright disadvantage but you need goals for both new players and vets and just moving the goal post to the 'your done' mark for new players too means we are all already at end of game.

So it's about, what are they really working on because this was our content patch for this go around, and are you really ok with that was your content release? Was the only thing you were looking for was change so that you could get a skin that you weren't going for anyway? How are you not irritated by this? Make more sense why some us are posting?

I think you're complaining about one thing, but you're actually mad about another (rightfully so I might add). Would it be nice to have better rewards for WvW? Of course it would. But is the lowering of rank to get a WvW skin as catastrophic to the game mode as you put it out to be? Not at all. Last night 3/4 maps were queued in my NA server for most of primetime.

The point we're trying to make is, the change you're complaining about doesn't matter... at all. If you already had the skin, how does it hurt you if others get it sooner with the change? If you didn't enjoy playing WvW in the first place, and were doing so only for the skin, then your problem is you're playing a game mode you don't like and thus feel like others should have as bad a time as you did. I guarantee that 99% of the people with the previous rank to have the skin don't use it, if they even have it (myself included). Because they weren't playing for a skin.The point, or goal of WvW, as it stands today is to compete, enjoy the fights, have fun with your friends. Which begs the question, why on earth would you spend time doing something you apparently feel is an unpleasant grind?

Now if you want to have a discussion on how the game mode can be improved in terms of rewards and long term goals, then we might find common ground. In this debate though, your justifications are not valid for the point you're attempting to argue.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Strages.2950 said:I think you're complaining about one thing, but you're actually mad about another (rightfully so I might add). Would it be nice to have better rewards for WvW? Of course it would. But is the lowering of rank to get a WvW skin as catastrophic to the game mode as you put it out to be? Not at all. Last night 3/4 maps were queued in my NA server for most of primetime.

This is correct, it's not the skin. They can give it out at level 0, but do that from day 1.

@Strages.2950 said:The point we're trying to make is, the change you're complaining about doesn't matter... at all.

That is the point I was making. The WvW content release for everyone included something that doesn't matter at all, no one was really asking about for that we could see on the forums, and that's all we got. So all the stuff we might have gotten is just further salt on the wound at the time. The irritation was mounting from people with miss information, the fact that people were happy that was their content release, and people seeming to make this something to congratulate over, and for the goal oriented people, less to go for. So it was many things at the time. It's a new week, weekend of killing peeps in no downstate goes a long way in improving mood, not to the point that will fund more in game soon after things like that, but....you vote with your wallet. Game's going well, buy things, not so much, don't buy things. Tomorrow is a new day.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Strages.2950 said:Now if you want to have a discussion on how the game mode can be improved in terms of rewards and long term goals, then we might find common ground. In this debate though, your justifications are not valid for the point you're attempting to argue.

This is a whole series of threads....but all the better. :)

[DaVid Darksoul.4985]

I managed a full set of legendary armor and looked upon the mist-forged as a symbol of prestige. Very few sported this armor due to its exclusiveness to dedicated WvWers. The same feeling I used to apply to ranks and titles. Now thru the dumbing down "lets include everyone" attitude taken by Anet that feeling of accomplishment is pretty much gone. Ranks, Titles, Armor, what next will be folded into the great equalizing crucible. Inequality is a basic fact of life which forces one to either persevere and strengthen oneself or rot away in your own self pity and weakness. If one is constantly given everything, one will never achieve naught but dependency.

[Vihar.5780]

It was nice to have some visible recognition for long term WvW achievements. It's not like anyone is getting rich or piling up achievement points doing WvW...it is the most unrewarding part of the game.

It used to be that if you saw someone rocking that armor, you knew they were a grizzled veteran, and paid some serious dues in the WvW mode. It was kind of cool.

Now, even that small thing ANet has rendered irrelevant. Now any part time PVE schmuck can get it., too.

[Jables.4659]

I can see both sides of this. On one hand, the Sublime Chest Piece was literally the only WvW reward that required genuine dedication to the game mode. On the other hand, the time investment required to get the full t3 armor set was drastically more than is required to get the Raid set or the Pvp set, and now they're more in line with each other. Imo the best remedy for this would be for Anet to create a cosmetic infusion that provides the same tentacle effect as the sublime chest piece and have it available for purchase in different colors based on your WvW rank. Every 500 rank points could be a different infusion color. Lets be honest, the Actual Chest piece skins associated with the effect are not great. They severely limit your fashion wars possibilities if you want the tentacles. Infusions would be a dream come true.

[Shiyo.3578]

Devaluing peoples accomplishments is something you should NEVER do as a MMO dev.Revert this.