Hotjoins should be main mode

[uberkingkong.8041]

When GW2 first started PvP, it had hotjoins and tournament.It was thriving time for PvP, we still had #esports AND very good casual community.

Now with ranked casuals feel they have to take the game very seriously, and there is no #esports. Casual community is not as plentiful and enjoyable as it was back when it was hotjoins as the main mode.

Seasons should stay, sure have the season rewards still there, but hotjoins should be just as fast if not faster for reward tracks.I really miss the 8v8 mode, yes it was chaotic, but that didn't mean it wasn't fun, that meant it was very fun. This way people can play with friends in PvP again. I agree that Seasons should limit player size to 2, because if not you going to have premades making life hell for solo'ers. But hotjoins, if you can get a premade team of 8, hell good for you.

Sure its probably going to be manipulated, but that didn't stop the noobs from playing it. Manipulated as in experienced players stacking team if they can manage it, swapping to the winning team if they can manage it.

All you have to do to help noobs from being a lamb to the slaughter is turn on the rating system when looking at other players. It should be on, it promotes playerbase awareness. As in if someone is a Legend, you can clearly see it. If they gold you can clearly see it. Noobs are dumb but when you make it very obvious, they aren't THAT dumb, well most of them are not. As in 8 no ranks getting slaughtered by gold and above.

Whats the point of being ranked a legend if no one can see it too.

But I'd like to see the return of hotjoins, just like how popular it was back in the days when PvP was thriving.You had your turn at trying to make a comeback with season duels, 2v2, 3v3. People want casual games, they don't want #esports vibe. They only play ranked because its way better rewards than hotjoin. They have to grind pvp for some item.

People played hotjoin back then not because they had to grind, because it was fun and the rewards were on par if not better than ranked, unless you win ranked a lot like 60% of the time.

8v8 was when the casual community was at its highest. 5v5 brought it down, 2v2 did not help, 3v3 did not help, 1v1 did not help.Matchmaking did not help either.Matchmaking was made to force everyone to be in #esports mindset. There is no #esports anymore. Casuals will watch #esports play, but they want nothing to do with #esports they want casual.

People obviously want to be rewarded for their time played too.

Also, in Starcraft, when you played with or against a ladder ranked player, in casual mode or ladder mode, any mode, you saw their rating. Whats the point of PvP rating system if you not going to show it off, especially in casual or even ranked. I mean everyone is obviously the same rank as you, why even hide it? Why hide it in unranked. I mean its matchmaking. Why have a matchmaking system if its not really working as its suppose to, too.

I'd like hotjoins to return, as 8v8. Reward system should favor reward tracks, if you want the ranked mode stuff you play ranked mode.I'd like rating to be shown in all PvP modes. Why hide it? If unranked matchmaking isnt work as intended, if everybody knows who cares. Everyone knows its not working and they play it, they know it, they'd feel better if knowing for fact why they getting beat so bad, rather than talking amongst selves, these guy gotta be platinum right.

[Justine.6351]

Rofl hotjoin.

The mode where if you are losing by 50 points people leave and people looking to join wait for someone else to join the losing team so they can join the winning team if there is a slot.

I remember a game where the enemy team was losing and they had a couple people salting in map chat and of coarse, auto balancing popped. Naturally I volunteered because of the bonuses and guess what, that losing team won once the salt left it. Good times.

! Hiding it from the elitists,

[Rukia.4802]

Hotjoin was garbage take the rose tinted goggles off, unranked replaced it, if you really want 8v8 just ask for that but its not gonna happen cuz they don't add new modes to pvp. The 1 guy on pvp team is probably the janitor and that takes much more work than to manage pvp so you better appreciate his limited time.

[uberkingkong.8041]

Say what you want. But thats when GW2 pvp population was at its highest.The current trend of popular games is not duels, 2v2 or 3v3. It's a lot of people.

Just because it was toxic too, didn't stop people from playing it. You look at those games with a ton of players, very toxic. But so many people play.

[Ovark.2514]

I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Ovark.2514 said:I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

The game started out with 8v8 mode. Back in 2013 2014. They wanted to focus everyone into #esports (5v5 mode) and thats when playerbase dropped. #esports dropped a couple years after.

8v8 was very popular, they removed it even though it was popular and forced people into 5v5 hotjoin and then introduced ranked and unranked.When something is going for you, you don't remove it.

Not every server had experienced players stacking teams too.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8v8 was good, but that was also when everyone was new to the game and we didn't have elite specs. Nowadays that would probably just translate to a lot of zerging, snowballing, and since everything is generally more tanky; never ending stalemate zerg poke-fights.

I don't think that was removed just to promote esports, but also to give PvP some more identity rather than have it be closer to WvW but in a smaller arena, without gear stats, and with less downtime/running between objectives/queue times.

But like @Justine.6351 's video shows perfectly, Hotjoins were a hotmess. I don't know why there's a crowd that even wants them back.

Rewards were far below what Ranked offers, and they were only quicker than Unranked because one team would usually get all the best players and then triple cap so the games end very quickly. Like boosting essentially.

If the player count was at its highest, you also have to consider the game was new around that time. Kind of jukes the stats because games pretty much always start out with player counts at their highest and either gradually or suddenly decline. That has nothing to do with 8v8 or Hotjoins.

[Ovark.2514]

@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

Not every server had experienced players stacking teams too.What's funny is that when all the good players would stack on a team, I would jump onto the other team for the challenge.

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:8v8 was good, but that was also when everyone was new to the game and we didn't have elite specs. Nowadays that would probably just translate to a lot of zerging, snowballing, and since everything is generally more tanky; never ending stalemate zerg poke-fights.

I don't think that was removed just to promote esports, but also to give PvP some more identity rather than have it be closer to WvW but in a smaller arena, without gear stats, and with less downtime/running between objectives/queue times.

But like @"Justine.6351" 's video shows perfectly, Hotjoins were a hotmess. I don't know why there's a crowd that even wants them back.

Rewards were far below what Ranked offers, and they were only quicker than Unranked because one team would usually get all the best players and then triple cap so the games end very quickly. Like boosting essentially.

If the player count was at its highest, you also have to consider the game was new around that time. Kind of jukes the stats because games pretty much always start out with player counts at their highest and either gradually or suddenly decline. That has nothing to do with 8v8 or Hotjoins.

I KNOW YOU DIDNT PLAY back then, because you say "triple capping for the win"Hotjoins back then you didn't win games to get the most rewards.You tagged players, and got insane score like 400. YOU COULD LOSE, BUT YOU HAVE 400 score, thats 400 points. Whose the real winner here? The winning team with highscore guy of 225 or the losing team with a player with 400+ points??!?!?!

Hotmess?Don't know anybody in GW2 that wants it back?

Because those players that left (way more left than currently playing now). Those are the people who want it back.

Of course nobody now wants it back, you only have diehards right now, all the casuals left.When you have a system that is near dead, #esports no longer.

You don't ask the people who still play what they want, you think about those tens of thousand that left, why they left.

8v8 was not a failure mode. They forced 8v8 into a 5v5, and got rid of hotjoins for a bit to force everyone into ranked/unranked.... Matchmaking.They forced hotjoin mode stopped it, so everyone would play in matchmaking.

They forced a successful mode into a failure mode.

[uberkingkong.8041]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

Not every server had experienced players stacking teams too.What's funny is that when all the good players would stack on a team, I would jump onto the other team for the challenge.

Exactly, and there is only certain amount of good players. Meaning there will be servers without them.ALSO, why would they play hotjoin when they know they win ranked game 70% or more of the time? It's fun thats why.

Worse case scenario isn't always going to happen too.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"uberkingkong.8041" said:I KNOW YOU DIDNT PLAY back then, because you say "triple capping for the win"Hotjoins back then you didn't win games to get the most rewards.You tagged players, and got insane score like 400. YOU COULD LOSE, BUT YOU HAVE 400 score, thats 400 points. Whose the real winner here? The winning team with highscore guy of 225 or the losing team with a player with 400+ points??!?!?!

I've played since a little after launch, it's up to you if you want to believe that or not.

I get that earning score actually contributed to your PvP rating and reward tracks.Its just wishful thinking really, to think people are going to lose and still manage a high score(like 225) especially with teamstacking and rampant dc's being a thing. The reality of most games is going to be one side might get a reasonable score, while the other loses a teammate or is otherwise down a player and just decides to sit in spawn until its over.

Hotmess?Don't know anybody in GW2 that wants it back?

I know a few, that's why I bother to say anything. I just don't understand why. I'm willing to try and understand, but you need reasoning.

Because those players that left (way more left than currently playing now). Those are the people who want it back.

Like that, that would be a good reason, but the actual number of people who lamented actual matchmaking and Hotjoins fading in popularity is pretty low. If you go back and cycle through all the "I am quitting PvP/GW2 for X reasons" posts/videos/whathaveyou it's like 90% balance complaints, and 10% people complaining about neglect.

Pretty sure the number of people who quit because hotjoins became less popular is being kind of over exaggerated here.

Of course nobody now wants it back, you only have diehards right now, all the casuals left.

Actually they just moved to Ranked.

8v8 was not a failure mode. They forced 8v8 into a 5v5, and got rid of hotjoins for a bit to force everyone into ranked/unranked.... Matchmaking.

Like I said, 8v8 was pretty good. I'll give you that. It being replaced with 5v5 probably had little if anything at all to do with esports though.

[Curunen.8729]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

Not every server had experienced players stacking teams too.What's funny is that when all the good players would stack on a team, I would jump onto the other team for the challenge.

Indeed, was often a lot of fun in that, even if sometimes a bit masochistic.

Interesting to see this thread pop up, may have some merit in it given the overall nature and state of the game. HJ was essentially WvW small-scale "Lite", without the need to grind pve gear to play, or to spend ages running around looking for a fight... So more accessible and respecting of your time.

Would be cool if they brought back 8v8 on old Capricorn, not giving a kitten about underwater balance, just for the fun of it.

[Shiyo.3578]

Hotjoin was really bad, I am glad it's gone.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@"uberkingkong.8041" said:Say what you want. But thats when GW2 pvp population was at its highest.The current trend of popular games is not duels, 2v2 or 3v3. It's a lot of people.

Just because it was toxic too, didn't stop people from playing it. You look at those games with a ton of players, very toxic. But so many people play.

I think you're missing some very important, very key pieces of context for your perspective.

Of course the GW2 PvP population was at its highest then...the game was still rather new. They added Unranked in 2014, at the tail end of it. The game was only 2 years old, thats rather young for MMORPGs considering the fact that the genre itself is defined by its longevity if the game is capable of persisting for long enough.

Hotjoin was not the "golden era" that was the "ignorance is bliss" era. ANet has done other things to sPvP that have stymied the mode, but removing hotjoin as "the" method of playing sPvP wasn't one of them. Hotjoin was a mess.

I'm all for ANet adding new modes for sPvP, COUGH GvG COUGH, but removing everything else and only having hotjoin is not the way to improve the state of things. There are other ways to make sPvP more welcoming and accessible, ANet has just gone about it in the exact wrong ways by trying to do so with Ranked rewards which has encouraged bots and people to just not care, their matchmaking "algorithm" that cares more about shortening queue times than it does about giving fair matches, the leaderboard that only acknowledges individual players in a 5v5 team PvP game mode, time gated automated tournaments, swiss.

One of the bigger ones, too, that discourages people from getting into it is a lack of any coherent tutorial. There was one, but it was rather garbage and also annoying so rather than try to do better...they got rid of it. ANet is fucking weird with their approach to GW2 and how to adjust things, which is to say they don't adjust things...they ditch them, and then try to do something "new".

So again, hotjoin was a mess...rose tinted glasses. Often times nostalgia gets in the way, you end up pining for what was without considering the why and the context back then. Happened with WoW, people wanted Classic WoW thinking they were going to be able to recreate that feeling they had when they first experienced the game...and that ended up being very far from the case.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

ESports is a cancer killing games.Don't let it kill GW2

[bethekey.8314]

Others and myself have suggested similar changes in the past: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/106269/hotjoins-spectating-and-the-community

Hotjoin spectator mode and absence of matchmaking promote learning and foster community, whereas queued systems like unranked, ranked, and ATs eliminate that in the spirit of "competition".

I put "competition" in quotes because this game hasn't really had competitive PvP in years, outside of funded tournaments.

[uberkingkong.8041]

Unlike unranked.In hotjoins you can see all the servers.With this it makes the PvP feel more like a community because you just join servers with people you like to play with. You don't have to que up or anything, you just join and start having fun.

Also spectate? I can't remember how far they have got with this feature, but I believe you can spectate at anytime. Just go into observer mode and start spectating.

They really should just get rid of ranked and keep tournament. There should be ranked tournament.Right now, its never going to get #esports again if they are hoping for that because ranked is casual mode right now. Even Tournaments is casual mode.

They need to uncasual the casual.

And should ranked be a casual mode? Nope, its too frustrating for casuals always being evaluated. Casuals want to have fun, and thats where hotjoins come in.

GW2 back then, did it right. Right away. It had #esports.Making ranked casualized, ruined the PvP scene.

People use to be afraid to play ranked, now "just do it".

Technically if you think about it, unranked you're like to go against a premade that will destroy you.Meanwhile unranked, you are a bronze tier? You'll face other bronze tier, 5050 chance.

Unranked and be destroyed or 5050 in ranked?

Hotjoins now, too many servers, you facing a premade, just swap servers. Like how everybody did it back in the days.

8v8? Thats how it was back in the days, it WAS NOT 5v5.5v5 is when GW2 PvP casual scene started to dwindle.

Think of this,unranked = no controlHotjoins = you see server browser, you see whose playing, you can spectate as wellunranked you wont make any friends, hotjoins over time, possible to make friends AND play with friends. Usually when you already have a friend you play with a lot people want to be your friend because they want to play with you two too.

Also, sidenote back then anybody that was smart aka they play to tag, play for rewards, could easily get 350+ points a game. When you do this in 5-10 min games vs qued game that maybe better if you win everygame, its a lot faster to rank up and earn rewards.

So you dang right you gotta make rewards good. The casuals wont go back to hotjoins especially when they just after rewards.Casuals wont go back to hotjoins when all they after is reward track grinding.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@uberkingkong.8041 said:

@Ovark.2514 said:I don't remember 8v8 even being a thing.... but YES to bringing back HJ! Girls just wanna have fu-un after all.

Not every server had experienced players stacking teams too.What's funny is that when all the good players would stack on a team, I would jump onto the other team for the challenge.

I used to do this too when Hot join was active before sometimes too when i'm on the winning side I'd swap to even out the scores or fight someone. the only reason HJ is dead now is because the HotM arena exists, which took some of the purpose out of HJ, like build testing, fighting, and just hanging out with the randoms and regulars. Take the arena out and you'll have HJs back(they won't though).