Why I will never be able to get a Skyscale.

Turkeyspit.3965 · June 7, 2019

I want to commend both the OP for raising the issue, and ANET for reacting to it swiftly and positively :+1:

It's unfortunate that on the same thread we have to hear people posting contrary views about an issue that doesn't concern or impact them, but in a free society we have to endure the bad while celebrating the good.

ShiningSquirrel.3751 · June 7, 2019

Wow, so many negative comments. Reminds me of the whole issue many of us had with the raptor and motion sickness. Some players did not even want them to add an OPTIONAL switch to lower the motion on just our own mounts. Really makes me sad to see that attitude has not changed.

Anet is on the right track. I almost gave up when I saw all the jumping puzzles that had to be done and when I saw the point in Blazeridge steps on the wall, that almost did it for me right there. For the jumping puzzles, the simple fix was the added the advanced skyscale food. That was great!, I did what I could, got some nice mesmers to help with a lot, then used the food where I had to. We had multiple options for getting the same results. This is no different, just adding an additional method to complete this achievement would not break anything. Can't or do not want to do the ball, fine then you have to feed him for an additional 3 days to help bond with him. Playing ball builds your bonds faster but if you can't do it you can build your bond with him my giving him some more treats over a couple of days. Now what would be the issue with this? Everyone would still be able to get him, but it would be a trade off of time over skill. You have the skill, you get your mount faster and at less cost. You do not have the skills, you can pay a little more gold and invest more time and you could also get your mount. Your not making it easier, just giving a different route just like using the advanced food.

Kaliwenda.3428 · June 7, 2019

@ShiningSquirrel.3751 said:Wow, so many negative comments. Reminds me of the whole issue many of us had with the raptor and motion sickness. Some players did not even want them to add an OPTIONAL switch to lower the motion on just our own mounts. Really makes me sad to see that attitude has not changed.
Anet is on the right track. I almost gave up when I saw all the jumping puzzles that had to be done and when I saw the point in Blazeridge steps on the wall, that almost did it for me right there. For the jumping puzzles, the simple fix was the added the advanced skyscale food. That was great!, I did what I could, got some nice mesmers to help with a lot, then used the food where I had to. We had multiple options for getting the same results. This is no different, just adding an additional method to complete this achievement would not break anything. Can't or do not want to do the ball, fine then you have to feed him for an additional 3 days to help bond with him. Playing ball builds your bonds faster but if you can't do it you can build your bond with him my giving him some more treats over a couple of days. Now what would be the issue with this? Everyone would still be able to get him, but it would be a trade off of time over skill. You have the skill, you get your mount faster and at less cost. You do not have the skills, you can pay a little more gold and invest more time and you could also get your mount. Your not making it easier, just giving a different route just like using the advanced food.

I needed several of the extra pungent treats and I was very happy to have the option to use them. I made what I could with the charged quartz that I had on hand, and bought the rest. Without that option I'd be unable to continue on the skyscale collection. I have nerve damage in both hands+elbows and had surgery to try to help it, but there are some things in the game that are beyond my capacity. (I do keep trying to improve and sometimes I surprise myself!)

For the ball catching, I'm glad to see that ArenaNet is working on an option for those who for one reason or another aren't able to complete it.

I like to think of it as not the player who is bad at ball catching, but the skyscale who is just not good at throwing it back. :)

Tzarakiel.7490 · June 7, 2019

wrong thread

Lady Celtaine.3760 · June 7, 2019

@ROMANG.1903 said:I've always been against making the game easyer for the minorities who have a terrible internet or serious disabilities. I know it's hard, but difficulty is what makes the fun of the game, and ajusting this difficulty to these people would mean that the whole rest of the playerbase would have it too easy. However, I will admit that this argument holds:
@The Quad.8625 said:Catching a ball has nothing to do with flying a skyscale!

And, while I am against making the challenge easyer, I would be totally fine with an easyer alternative, if it was balanced by being longer to run than the ball challenge, as you suggested:

@The Quad.8625 said:Arenanet, please [...] make a way for me to bypass it

@crepuscular.9047 said:Thanks
Devs really should take disabilities and possible health issues into consideration when designing contents
One of the bad ones I can think of is the 'Three Golem Monte' achieve, it can pretty much give you a seizureThough I got it done on my third try, but I got a bit of headache from eye strain of eyeballs moving too fast afterwards; hence I have stopping playing FPS games like CS:GO, CoD, etc, gives me a headache in 10-20min

This is an achievment, it's supposed to be challenging and isn't required for anything else in the game. I'm completely against balancing this kind of content around disabilities.

What Regh said...

We don't exactly want a cake walk either. But considering how long the multiple collections can take making 1 stage easier is not making the whole thing overal less challenging.

I ask you for just a moment to consider how you would feel if say tomorrow you were unfortunate enough to be hit by a bus, develop a serious illness, or develop a permanent condition, and become disabled.You can't play like you used to, or could have before, and it's not your fault. You log into the game because using a keyboard usually levels the playing field skill wise in many ways and but you aren't as quick in your reflexes as you could be either.

Devs granting a small concession to someone on account of disability doesn't take anything away from fully abled players as they will get the same end reward all the same, but it does make the difference to someone less able whether they can chip away at it over time or it's so far beyond their reach they just give up because the last lap of the course has that 1 hurdle they just cannot get over and not for want of trying.

@crepuscular.9047 said:
One of the bad ones I can think of is the 'Three Golem Monte' achieve, it can pretty much give you a seizure. Though I got it done on my third try, but I got a bit of headache from eye strain of eyeballs moving too fast afterwards; hence I have stopping playing FPS games like CS:GO, CoD, etc, gives me a headache in 10-20min.

This is part of my request on the QoL sticky re: effect flashes, I know someone who nearly puked after getting their camera spun around by Scruffy in S4 ep 1 The First City trying to complete "Neutralize Scruffy 2.0 to save Taimi". I know motion sickness is not the same as epilepsy but it seems to be related in the way it gets set off. Which is quite shocking as I've never seen an epilepsy warning ingame, and there wasn't one on the disk case I have either, and when you consider seizures can be fatal to people with epilepsy it's quite serious.I should have included a request for static camera option when in a confined area boss fight for his sake.

Menadena.7482 · June 7, 2019

@crepuscular.9047 said:Thanks
Devs really should take disabilities and possible health issues into consideration when designing contents
One of the bad ones I can think of is the 'Three Golem Monte' achieve, it can pretty much give you a seizureThough I got it done on my third try, but I got a bit of headache from eye strain of eyeballs moving too fast afterwards; hence I have stopping playing FPS games like CS:GO, CoD, etc, gives me a headache in 10-20min

I will never figure out how the first instance of episode 1 this season passed muster. Anyone should have seen that was a disaster waiting to happen. I still do not know why I subjected myself to that instance rather than going the tp-to-friend route to get to Istan.

Menadena.7482 · June 7, 2019

@ROMANG.1903 said:I've always been against making the game easyer for the minorities who have a terrible internet or serious disabilities. I know it's hard, but difficulty is what makes the fun of the game, and ajusting this difficulty to these people would mean that the whole rest of the playerbase would have it too easy. However, I will admit that this argument holds:
@The Quad.8625 said:Catching a ball has nothing to do with flying a skyscale!

And, while I am against making the challenge easyer, I would be totally fine with an easyer alternative, if it was balanced by being longer to run than the ball challenge, as you suggested:

@The Quad.8625 said:Arenanet, please [...] make a way for me to bypass it

@crepuscular.9047 said:Thanks
Devs really should take disabilities and possible health issues into consideration when designing contents
One of the bad ones I can think of is the 'Three Golem Monte' achieve, it can pretty much give you a seizureThough I got it done on my third try, but I got a bit of headache from eye strain of eyeballs moving too fast afterwards; hence I have stopping playing FPS games like CS:GO, CoD, etc, gives me a headache in 10-20min

This is an achievment, it's supposed to be challenging and isn't required for anything else in the game. I'm completely against balancing this kind of content around disabilities.

I would suggest doing something like adding an alternate win condition that nobody would willingly do (like attempt it for a long period of time). That way you do not wind up with an impossible gate but the only reason someone would take the alternate path is the primary being impossible.

As an example (and not changing the rules in play) when people were complaining about getting 250 of each zone's currency I just suggested mining home nodes. Of course they blew up at the very idea because of how long it would take. To me it made perfect sense though. Since my seizures are primarily triggered by any form of stress it is just natural to me to think of the slow but steady way to approach a problem. A couple months to do something is par for the course for me, so I also have to decide what it is worth it to me to do rather than getting every single goodie in the game.

Menadena.7482 · June 7, 2019

@AgentMoore.9453 said:Balancing content around individuals and minorities isn't a reasonable expectation, and it opens a few terrible doors.
How do you determine whether the person in question is actually disabled? Does it matter?
What types of disabilities are qualifying enough to warrant ArenaNet's intervention?
How do you reconcile accommodating one person while requiring more of everyone else?
What stops an adjustment for disabilities from becoming an easy mode for people who aren't disabled?
It's great that the OP enjoys the game and has stuck with it for this long despite their limitations, and they themselves have already said that they wouldn't change a thing. The correct solution in this case was to enlist their friends to help them complete the content, and ArenaNet is also looking at minor adjustments like slackening the timing between ball tosses, which will not severely impact the achievement process.
There are rewards in this game and achievements I would love to have and never will because of my lack of coordination or competitive spirit, but they, like the Skyscale, are not necessary to experience what GW2 has to offer. I am not entitled to items and achievements I have not met the requirements for, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
To expect a mount to be given away for free or any achievement to be auto-granted because a user can't complete the content is no different in practice than someone refusing to do a JP but still wanting JP rewards. This kind of expectation creates 'special cases' among users, and muddies the line of what is or isn't actionable. In an MMO, this sort of imbalance isn't a good idea.
I wish the OP good luck in future endeavors and hope that people understand why it is that ArenaNet aims for the majority and cannot custom fit the game for every user experience.

It would not be an 'easy mode' simply an alternate path. Done right and the only people taking the alternate path would be people who could not do the primary path at all.

Say there was some task that a great player could do in 10 minutes and most people in 20 minutes. Now say the win conditions were do that task or something like stay active (not idle) in the area for 2 hours. I am guessing anyone who wanted the skyscale NOW would not choose the 2 hour option when they could be done in much less time.

Chichimec.9364 · June 7, 2019

@"ROMANG.1903" said:I've always been against making the game easyer for the minorities who have a terrible internet or serious disabilities. I know it's hard, but difficulty is what makes the fun of the game, and ajusting this difficulty to these people would mean that the whole rest of the playerbase would have it too easy......And, while I am against making the challenge easyer, I would be totally fine with an easyer alternative, if it was balanced by being longer to run than the ball challenge, as you suggested:

Hmm, I find myself disagreeing with your initial comment a bit but agreeing with your suggested solution. The point of disagreement is simple. Difficult challenges make the game fun for some players but not for all of them. At age 17 I thrived on high intensity, high pressure situations. At age 70, with significantly reduced physical abilities, I find "difficult" challenges to be tiresome if not frustrating. I'm into a much more relaxed, casual mode these days. Should Anet push me out of their player base because of that? Well, that's up to them. They are welcome to take a look at my account to decide if they want me as a player or not.

The place where I very strongly agree with you though is in your suggested solution. Rather than a one size fits all approach - making everything either really hard or really easy, let's continue to have a range of options. Some people love jumping puzzles but I physically can't do most of them myself. Thank you Anet for the concept of mesmers with portals and a special thanks to those mesmers who so freely create portals for those who need them. The built in alternative to jumping puzzles for the Skyscale is equally cool. In both cases, the option to go the physically challenging route or to use an alternative that may cost more time and money is up to the individual player. Which option I choose shouldn't have a notable effect on anyone else's gameplay. Options and alternatives like these - that's what I'd like to see wherever Anet locks things behind gates that take fast physical abilities to unlock.

Glass Hand.7306 · June 8, 2019

I am 69, and fortunately am still dexterous enough to be able to do the skyscale catch task despite some wrist arthritis.

However there are some things in the game that are beyond me. In particular jumping puzzles and adventures. Most jumping puzzles turn out to not be a problem thanks to the way they are designed to allow porting and teleports for cooperative approaches to the puzzles. At least most of the time.

The thing that has caused me the most difficulty are the adventures. Some of these are forever beyond my ability to complete even at the bronze level. And unfortunately there is some important content like iconic weapons, masteries and legendary collections gated behind these adventures.

I would seriously appreciate it if Anet were to take a look at some of the older adventures (yes Sanctum Scramble is one, Fungus Among Us is another) and remove them from requirement lists.

Sirius.4510 · June 8, 2019

I thought Stephane's explanation was a pretty good one. There are some bits of the game, like the Mad King's Clocktower, that just by their nature are not going to be particularly accessible. And it's OK to have some of that content, but developers want to be conscious about where they'll have it. You always want as many people as possible to be able to play as much of the game as possible, so if nothing important will be sacrificed by increasing accessibility, that's what you'll want to do.

The Skyscale isn't mandatory, of course, and you can play without it - but it's also not part of the design goal for the acquisition journey to be Dark Souls, so why make it into that? There's plenty of other difficult content in the game to challenge players who are looking for it.

jinxykat.6519 · June 8, 2019

I love that Anet is trying to make the skyscale quests accessible to all. Being a player with disabilities (lupus and carpal issues as well as nerve damage in my hands) i found the hard mode ball catch extremely frustrating. To have gotten that far and to be bested by of all things, my inability to catch a ball was maddening. I did finally get it done after reading some tips and tricks but those will simply not work for others with more debilitating conditions, and it takes nothing away from me, or my experience on the journey, for them to make it easier for those players. It's like seeing a few handicapped spaces, having the entire parking lot, but being upset because those spaces are not also for you. The community of GW2 has always been largely unselfish and lovely. Please do your best to stay that way.

ROMANG.1903 · June 8, 2019

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
@"ROMANG.1903" said:I've always been against making the game easyer for the minorities who have a terrible internet or serious disabilities. I know it's hard, but difficulty is what makes the fun of the game, and ajusting this difficulty to these people would mean that the whole rest of the playerbase would have it too easy. However, I will admit that this argument holds:
This is an achievment, it's supposed to be challenging and isn't required for anything else in the game. I'm completely against balancing this kind of content around disabilities.

This achievement is one of the components of acquiring the Skyscale mount and we want that journey to be accessible to the entire playerbase, including Guild Wars 2 players with disabilities. We're happy to make adjustments wherever relevant and believe that making the game more accessible improves it, without removing anything from everyone's experience.

I was talking about the "Three Golem Monte" achievment, which isn't required in the acquisition of the Skyscale.

About the achievments that are necessary in order to unlock a big feature, yes, I totally agree that some alternative ways to unlock them should exist.

Blieje.8705 · June 10, 2019

I give up too after 5 years of playing guildwars2 i am just to slow for it even with speedboosts becouse of my handicap i tried hard for a long time now and i am very sad to get stuck on the third stage of play ball to see all the effort to go down the drain good luck to all the ones wo will succeed ;3

Witch of Doom.5739 · June 10, 2019

@Blieje.8705 said:I give up too after 5 years of playing guildwars2 i am just to slow for it even with speedboosts becouse of my handicap i tried hard for a long time now and i am very sad to get stuck on the third stage of play ball to see all the effort to go down the drain good luck to all the ones wo will succeed ;3

Please don't give up. ANet has said they are looking into this issue. I think they'll change it since it's affecting too many people.

ROMANG.1903 · June 10, 2019

@Chichimec.9364 said:
@"ROMANG.1903" said:I've always been against making the game easyer for the minorities who have a terrible internet or serious disabilities. I know it's hard, but difficulty is what makes the fun of the game, and ajusting this difficulty to these people would mean that the whole rest of the playerbase would have it too easy......And, while I am against making the challenge easyer, I would be totally fine with an easyer alternative, if it was balanced by being longer to run than the ball challenge, as you suggested:

Hmm, I find myself disagreeing with your initial comment a bit but agreeing with your suggested solution. The point of disagreement is simple. Difficult challenges make the game fun for some players but not for all of them. At age 17 I thrived on high intensity, high pressure situations. At age 70, with significantly reduced physical abilities, I find "difficult" challenges to be tiresome if not frustrating. I'm into a much more relaxed, casual mode these days. Should Anet push me out of their player base because of that? Well, that's up to them. They are welcome to take a look at my account to decide if they want me as a player or not.

The place where I very strongly agree with you though is in your suggested solution. Rather than a one size fits all approach - making everything either really hard or really easy, let's continue to have a range of options. Some people love jumping puzzles but I physically can't do most of them myself. Thank you Anet for the concept of mesmers with portals and a special thanks to those mesmers who so freely create portals for those who need them. The built in alternative to jumping puzzles for the Skyscale is equally cool. In both cases, the option to go the physically challenging route or to use an alternative that may cost more time and money is up to the individual player. Which option I choose shouldn't have a notable effect on anyone else's gameplay. Options and alternatives like these - that's what I'd like to see wherever Anet locks things behind gates that take fast physical abilities to unlock.

I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that.

The reason I am supportive of an alternate solution for the ball challenge is because it unlocks the skyscale, which is quite a big feature. But I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.

Chichimec.9364 · June 10, 2019

@ROMANG.1903 said:I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that......I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.

Let me ask this as a serious question, not a trolling attempt - Why are you opposed to such alternatives? The chest rewards for jumping puzzles don't seem that rewarding to me. I assumed that people did them for the fun of the challenge not for the actual chests. When jps show up in the dailies, some people race through them on their own while others use mesmer portals if they are available. If I use a portal how does that affect your enjoyment of doing the jumping yourself? I'm not arguing here but am wanting to understand your point of view.

Obtena.7952 · June 11, 2019

@crepuscular.9047 said:Thanks
Devs really should take disabilities and possible health issues into consideration when designing contents
One of the bad ones I can think of is the 'Three Golem Monte' achieve, it can pretty much give you a seizureThough I got it done on my third try, but I got a bit of headache from eye strain of eyeballs moving too fast afterwards; hence I have stopping playing FPS games like CS:GO, CoD, etc, gives me a headache in 10-20min

While I feel for the guy, I don't think it makes sense for Anet to design their game around exceptional cases.

ROMANG.1903 · June 11, 2019

@Chichimec.9364 said:
@"ROMANG.1903" said:I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that......I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.

Let me ask this as a serious question, not a trolling attempt - Why are you opposed to such alternatives? The chest rewards for jumping puzzles don't seem that rewarding to me. I assumed that people did them for the fun of the challenge not for the actual chests. When jps show up in the dailies, some people race through them on their own while others use mesmer portals if they are available. If I use a portal how does that affect your enjoyment of doing the jumping yourself? I'm not arguing here but am wanting to understand your point of view.

Most of the enjoyment I get from jumping puzzles is being proud of reaching the end. It's that feeling of "yeah, I did it, not everyone can reach this place". If everyone can do it with the push of a button, how does it matter? I also don't understand your point of view, if the end chests don't seem that rewarding to you, why do you want to run these puzzles? If that's because of the daily achievments, there are plenty of alternatives already. You have the choice of 3 out of 4 achievment in PvE, and if that's not enough, you have 8 additional options throughout the others modes. In total you only have to run 3 out of 12 options to get the daily rewards. And if you really can't run any of these, then perhaps leave the reward to those who can, just like with raids.

Chichimec.9364 · June 11, 2019

@"ROMANG.1903" said:Most of the enjoyment I get from jumping puzzles is being proud of reaching the end. It's that feeling of "yeah, I did it, not everyone can reach this place". If everyone can do it with the push of a button, how does it matter?

Thanks for taking the time to answer. "Yeah, I did it..." That good feeling at accomplishing something difficult I do understand. The rest of that sentence, "not everyone can reach this place" isn't something I would add on myself, though I understand a lot of people would. It may be a matter of varying backgrounds. Some folks are brought up to excel above others and that's the way they approach things. Myself, I was brought up in a working class community, with a lot of extended family living nearby. The emphasis there was not on personal excellence above others but in helping each other, family and community, in whatever ways were needed to enable everyone to survive as well as possible. I like the way I was brought up and that approach to life. However I would not put down other people who live differently. There is something powerful in the idea of personal excellence. (Though if I am not understanding what you are saying, feel free to correct me.)

I also don't understand your point of view, if the end chests don't seem that rewarding to you, why do you want to run these puzzles? If that's because of the daily achievments, there are plenty of alternatives already...

Usually I do a mix of Open World and WvW dailies, finishing as many of each as I comfortably can. If there are jumping puzzles in the mix and mesmers are at hand I"ll do them. Otherwise, the only other time I pay attention to jps is when they are necessary for map completion. If any of those map essential jps come up in the dailies, I'll check my new alts and send them to that map to look for friendly mesmers as needed. I can see why a casual approach like this would push against your sense of accomplishment in doing something others can't. However I'm not sure what I as an individual can do about it. Your thoughts?

Vayne.8563 · June 11, 2019

@Nikal.4921 said:I moved a few months ago to the country. I had no choice but to go with satellite internet. ~cries~ With a 1-3s (sometimes more, and in crowds, it's often much, much more) skill lag, I find I am excluded from a lot of the in-game activities I used to enjoy. I fear this would be a roadblock to my getting Skyscale. I'm glad this was brought up. I will be watching for any upcoming solutions.

I play from Australia with about 280 ping and I was able to do it....admittedly it took me a lot longer than it would have, but it's eventually doable. It requires a combination of luck and skill. What's your ping?

Lady Celtaine.3760 · June 12, 2019

@ROMANG.1903 said:
@Chichimec.9364 said:
@ROMANG.1903 said:I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that......I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.

Let me ask this as a serious question, not a trolling attempt - Why are you opposed to such alternatives? The chest rewards for jumping puzzles don't seem that rewarding to me. I assumed that people did them for the fun of the challenge not for the actual chests. When jps show up in the dailies, some people race through them on their own while others use mesmer portals if they are available. If I use a portal how does that affect your enjoyment of doing the jumping yourself? I'm not arguing here but am wanting to understand your point of view.

Most of the enjoyment I get from jumping puzzles is being proud of reaching the end. It's that feeling of "yeah, I did it, not everyone can reach this place". If everyone can do it with the push of a button, how does it matter?

I get it, really I do, but remember that ability =/= skill.Skill is something learned and requires the attitude of willing and determination to get to a peak level. It's inclusive because everyone has the potential to be skilled or at least more skilled than they are when they start something and it's up to them to become so.Ability is just something you're stuck with, you can be more than adequately skilled but still unfairly hindered when you have a condition that impares your ability.OP clearly has a lot of skill because they got this far despite having a disablity, they already did the jump puzzles by taking their time, careful aiming of a jump is a skill.(Just want to add Jps are skill based because it's about making it to the end, not ability based because they aren't about making it to the end and within a time frame that people who have to go slower are likely to never be able to achieve.)

Anet have made changes to the ball catch so it is more skill based rather than hang on ability so much so as to give disabled players a fairer chance at getting it done.

If you mean things should be sufficiently difficult that it requires skill to do that is fair comment.But if you mean things should be so difficult in such a way that it relies more on ability than skill that's just being mean to people with disabilities.

It's ok to be proud of your skill. But maybe for the sake of the discussion and removing the need for assumptions could you clarify more what position you are actually taking?

ROMANG.1903 · June 12, 2019

@Lady Celtaine.3760 said:
@ROMANG.1903 said:
@Chichimec.9364 said:
@ROMANG.1903 said:I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that......I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.

Let me ask this as a serious question, not a trolling attempt - Why are you opposed to such alternatives? The chest rewards for jumping puzzles don't seem that rewarding to me. I assumed that people did them for the fun of the challenge not for the actual chests. When jps show up in the dailies, some people race through them on their own while others use mesmer portals if they are available. If I use a portal how does that affect your enjoyment of doing the jumping yourself? I'm not arguing here but am wanting to understand your point of view.

Most of the enjoyment I get from jumping puzzles is being proud of reaching the end. It's that feeling of "yeah, I did it, not everyone can reach this place". If everyone can do it with the push of a button, how does it matter?

I get it, really I do, but remember that ability =/= skill.Skill is something learned and requires the attitude of willing and determination to get to a peak level. It's inclusive because everyone has the potential to be skilled or at least more skilled than they are when they start something and it's up to them to become so.Ability is just something you're stuck with, you can be more than adequately skilled but still unfairly hindered when you have a condition that impares your ability.OP clearly has a lot of skill because they got this far despite having a disablity, they already did the jump puzzles by taking their time, careful aiming of a jump is a skill.(Just want to add Jps are skill based because it's about making it to the end, not ability based because they aren't about making it to the end and within a time frame that people who have to go slower are likely to never be able to achieve.)

Anet have made changes to the ball catch so it is more skill based rather than hang on ability so much so as to give disabled players a fairer chance at getting it done.

If you mean things should be sufficiently difficult that it requires skill to do that is fair comment.But if you mean things should be so difficult in such a way that it relies more on ability than skill that's just being mean to people with disabilities.

It's ok to be proud of your skill. But maybe for the sake of the discussion and removing the need for assumptions could you clarify more what position you are actually taking?

I admit I didn't think about that distinction, probably because the two, while different, are inherently linked. It's difficult to create a mechanic that requires skill but not ability. It is possible but it limits what the game has to offer, a lot.

Again, I do agree that an alternative to the ball challenge should exist. All of my disagreements are about the jumping puzzles, and that's where I probably should've made a distinction: When it specifically comes to the jumping puzzle that's required in the skyscale collections, I also think that there should be an alternative. The only thing I'm against is having ways to reach the end of these puzzles without having to actually do them.

Lady Celtaine.3760 · June 12, 2019

@ROMANG.1903 said:
@Lady Celtaine.3760 said:
@ROMANG.1903 said:
@Chichimec.9364 said:
@ROMANG.1903 said:I am sorry but I can't agree with you on the jumping puzzle part. Jumping puzzles are not necessary for anything else in the game, they offer nothing more than their respective rewards. If you can't do them, I think you shouldn't have any alternate option for them. I don't personally have time for raids, but I'm not asking for an alternate path to raid rewards, I simply don't have access to them, and I'm fine with that......I have always been (and probably ever will be) against portals, gliders, mounts, and even speed boosts, in jumping puzzles that were not designed with these advantages in mind.