This game needs to work with computers in 2020

[b k.1648]

Might be looking at minutiae here, but I thought NCSoft West was an American publisher, while NCSoft is Korean?

[Derdzvero.7051]

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Derdzvero.7051 said:Absolutely agree - there are many video games out there and user experience is at the end the deciding factor if game stays on the HDD/SSD for longer than 1h.. There's no excuse for Anet for not being able to hold steady 60fps on today's hardware.

Please enrich our conversation with examples.

Lion's Arch Trading Post. If a DX9 game can't hold steady 60fps in that environment with 25 people idle-ing around, it's pointless to even discuss the massive combat encounters.. Their servers simply cannot process and update clients in real time, imho (netcode).

[ZDragon.3046]

I use to have higher fps back when the game first launchedNote im still on the same cpu and mobo from when the game launched the only thing thats changed is i now use a ssd in stead of a hdd and my gpu.Changing the gpu wont matter at all for this game (changed it a few times now cause my older ones failed) and while the ssd helped speed up load times overall my fps has slowly gotten lower and lower over the years as more content gets added to the game. I use to keep character population on high and be ok even in combat now i keep it on low and even then in combat its barely on the edge of uncomfortable gameplay

It also does not help in pvp when going against more than one mesmer or any of its elites as the clones spawning in and out will cause people to render in and out constantly its pretty much like giving the real mesmer a passive stealth if enough players are around. Turning up the character population kills fps though so..... its kinda in a rough spot granted i could be running a stronger rig but still my current one barely handles the game comfortably these days but im milking it out for as long as i can be for dumping money into new parts.

I do agree though i can play newer games just fine without fps issues gw2 is probably the biggest game that drags behind for me right now because of how its built.

Heck even the gem store barely functions these days it takes on average 15-20 seconds just to load a functioning landing screen. Trying to navigate it some times is just painful because of how slow it is.

While i know my own old rig is part of the problem its still a bit crazy i can play most other modern games on high / max settings with a few tweaks mostly but this one everything on high is fine but make sure you can only see about 10 rendered people at a time.

Its just odd though no other settings other than character population do much to change my fps. Ive tried dozens of combos and thats the only big contributing factor for the most part.

[Jin.8501]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:If they'll redo this game with the newer machines in mind, it won't start to run better on older machines - it will run worse on them.

Don't spread misinformation. It would run better on every system if they would do a proper multi threading upgrade and move atleast to DX11.

Here is a good video for everyone who want to know some basics, does not matter which game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Jin.8501 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:If they'll redo this game with the newer machines in mind, it won't start to run better on older machines - it will run

worse

on them.

Don't spread misinformation. It would run better on every system if they would do a proper multi threading upgrade and move atleast to DX11.Meaning, it would run better on older machines, if they aren't really all that older.Sure.

[Tiviana.2650]

I wish they would too, but i dont see it happening. I think at this point in the games lifecycle its far too major of an undertaking, and not worth the cost. WoW did it because they can they have the money and its a huge game that takes in at least 20 mill a month. But i think they could optimize the game better for little cost. The thread handling is a problem

I can pretty much say the next game they make will be dx12

[Bladestrom.6425]

Wow is a good example, they spent a lot of cash on the engine, and gameplay and population did not improve/increase, quite the opposite in fact due to deteriorating stale gameplay.

Money is better invested in what matters in a game - content. Build a new engine for gw3 in a decade or so when it compromises gameplay too much.

Consider how long it takes anet to balance tweak a number, then times that by a million for an engine rewrite. Also, careful what you ask for, eso is an utter buggy poorly performing mess due to a poorly chosen engine,. I will take an artistically gorgeous game with a little less fidelity over that any day of the week.

[Salex.6024]

dx9 in 2020,not great, not terrible.

[Tiviana.2650]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Wow is a good example, they spent a lot of cash on the engine, and gameplay and population did not improve/increase, quite the opposite in fact due to deteriorating stale gameplay.

Money is better invested in what matters in a game - content. Build a new engine for gw3 in a decade or so when it compromises gameplay too much.

Consider how long it takes anet to balance tweak a number, then times that by a million for an engine rewrite.

I played wow for over a decade, i will tell you why they lost a lot of players. That is one of the most spoiled playerbases you will ever see, they want everything and they demand like nobodies business. You would never get away with that here not how they speak to the the devs and each other. If they dont get something perfect as they want it the playerbase riots. I dont envy Blizzard they are babysitting the worst spoiled playerbase in gaming. I have over 45 thousand posts on the wow forums and i can tell you what i just said is true. The players are the problem in that game, they are never satisfied, they gripe and moan about everything, and honestly WoWs devs go out of their way to appease them, so they are spoiled. The game its self is huge it has so many different things to do and new stuff all the time. A new player there would be even more overwhelmed than here. But its the players that are ruining that game, no matter what they say.

But fun fact a lot come back when they go to other games and see they cant get away with that behavior there.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Tiviana.2650 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:Wow is a good example, they spent a lot of cash on the engine, and gameplay and population did not improve/increase, quite the opposite in fact due to deteriorating stale gameplay.

Money is better invested in what matters in a game - content. Build a new engine for gw3 in a decade or so when it compromises gameplay too much.

Consider how long it takes anet to balance tweak a number, then times that by a million for an engine rewrite.

I played wow for over a decade, i will tell you why they lost a lot of players. That is one of the most spoiled playerbases you will ever see, they want everything and they demand like nobodies business. You would never get away with that here not how they speak to the the devs and each other. If they dont get something perfect as they want it the playerbase riots. I dont envy Blizzard they are babysitting the worst spoiled playerbase in gaming. I have over 45 thousand posts on the wow forums and i can tell you what i just said is true. The players are the problem in that game, they are never satisfied, they gripe and moan about everything, and honestly WoWs devs go out of their way to appease them, so they are spoiled. The game its self is huge it has so many different things to do and new stuff all the time. A new player there would be even more overwhelmed than here. But its the players that are ruining that game, no matter what they say.

But fun fact a lot come back when they go to other games and see they cant get away with that behavior there.

The same thing happens here except the complaints tend to subside after a week or two.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@zealex.9410 said:

@ReActif.9251 said:There is no reason why a game using Dx9 does not work on a 2020 PC, absolutely no reason!

On the other hand, having to adapt to profound changes in the OS is something else.

Then you don't recode a game engine like that. A game engine is the most expensive thing created for a studio. And we don't recode that for a game that's not going to bring in much money, after adapting it, I think it's already the case since the beginning, they've adapted the engine well between GW2 and GW2 HoT. And it continues to do what needs to be done in a balance between cost, time and profitability.

Gw2 is the only game that brings money to anet and without any new titles for the forseeable future they need to adapt.

Game needs better optimisation and qol changes or after some point wont bother with it.

Pretty sure NC Soft might have a little say in how/where money gets spent.Bottom line the game is 7yrs old + dev time prior.. I wouldn't go holding your breath for some magical DX++ regrade or upgrade to GW2 as it would be highly unlikely to see any or enough of a return to justify the investment outlay.Best we can hope for imo is some tweaks here and there along with some optimisation improvements as and when.One of the problems I can see is improving GW2 for newer high calibre systems only pushed more issues back the other way.. and I would hazard a guess ANET has more data than it can throw a stick at when making these kinds of decisions around their product.

As for future titles, only NC Soft and ANET can look into that crystal ball, who knows maybe some of those cancelled/shelved projects might just make it back into the development intray one day.

[sorudo.9054]

they just made the big mistake in keeping the game on an outdated system, everyone already know 10 years ago that single core CPU's will never get more powerful so games changed tactics in supporting multi core rigs.that's what Anet did wrong, they had an outdated line of thought and now they are stuck with a game based on single core use.

they can still fix this but for what i understand from their statements they made a huge mess of their coding, fixing this would require a total recoding of the core game.it does take a huge amount of time and effort but i am of an opinion that if they do this they can fix allot more than just updating their engine, they can also reorganize their engine so they can add stuff more organized.if it's worth the time and money to do so is all up to Anet and NCsoft.

[Derdzvero.7051]

I don't think the issue is with single core or dx9 or similar limitation.Why? Several reasons:

1/I can hear my coolers, when system is loaded at 100% and fps drops usually happen when both CPU and GPU are sitting at sub 40% load. Frequently even at 10% load.

2/I always check the load when my fps drop significantly suddenly and it's usually without visual justification. In other words sitting idle in Lion's Arch or gathering for North meta at Thunderhead Peaks, for example. There is nothing significantly going on around that can justify 50% fps drop. On the contrary- when fighting starts and I move 10m away, fps go sky high again.

3/during big events the fps drops are combined with lag spikes, which makes me think the issue is server/network related and Anet's servers can't update the clients in real time.

4/lags do NOT happen when there's excessive AoE/flash-bang on the screen, despite my PC being loaded. E.g my HW can cope up with DX 9 crap around, which is expected.

5/ there are some old games, which are known to be problem children (unreal engine based, Nvidia physics wrong implementation, ambient occlusion issues, etc). I don't think gw2 suffers from those since tweaking settings in game and on driver level will easily confirm that.

5/ i get similar fps, regardless of hw resolution and PC used. E.g only common thing is gw2 client. Same fps range at those places.

6/fps going up & down by 50% just by making few steps in a direction, without changing fov/environment focus.. absolutely ridiculous ;)

In my opinion the issues are:1 the gw2 client is either waiting for server's update or is looped internally by something, caused by skins/effects/animations of non-NPC characters.2 servers are terribly overloaded3 calculations in gw2 client have nothing to do with rendering proximity in game and are busy with something way out of range and interest

4. The worst: within last 1.5y i haven't seen a single attempt and attention from Anet to do something on the topic. Terrible company practice, but I guess it fits with the rest (balance, brainless grind, F key spam gameplay, collections without rewards, etc..)

[sorudo.9054]

@"Derdzvero.7051" said:I don't think the issue is with single core or dx9 or similar limitation.Why? Several reasons:

1/I can hear my coolers, when system is loaded at 100% and fps drops usually happen when both CPU and GPU are sitting at sub 40% load. Frequently even at 10% load.

2/I always check the load when my fps drop significantly suddenly and it's usually without visual justification. In other words sitting idle in Lion's Arch or gathering for North meta at Thunderhead Peaks, for example. There is nothing significantly going on around that can justify 50% fps drop. On the contrary- when fighting starts and I move 10m away, fps go sky high again.

3/during big events the fps drops are combined with lag spikes, which makes me think the issue is server/network related and Anet's servers can't update the clients in real time.

4/lags do NOT happen when there's excessive AoE/flash-bang on the screen, despite my PC being loaded. E.g my HW can cope up with DX 9 kitten around, which is expected.

5/ there are some old games, which are known to be problem children (unreal engine based, Nvidia physics wrong implementation, ambient occlusion issues, etc). I don't think gw2 suffers from those since tweaking settings in game and on driver level will easily confirm that.

5/ i get similar fps, regardless of hw resolution and PC used. E.g only common thing is gw2 client. Same fps range at those places.

6/fps going up & down by 50% just by making few steps in a direction, without changing fov/environment focus.. absolutely ridiculous ;)

In my opinion the issues are:1 the gw2 client is either waiting for server's update or is looped internally by something, caused by skins/effects/animations of non-NPC characters.2 servers are terribly overloaded3 calculations in gw2 client have nothing to do with rendering proximity in game and are busy with something way out of range and interest

4. The worst: within last 1.5y i haven't seen a single attempt and attention from Anet to do something on the topic. Terrible company practice, but I guess it fits with the rest (balance, brainless grind, F key spam gameplay, collections without rewards, etc..)

this has to do with how they handle cache, every single time something big loads like a new zone it completely empty's it's cache, this also happens when you walk around for to long in an area where textures are not used for about 10 minutes.so when you go from zone to zone and back it needs to load it all over again, taking allot more time and effort then if they kept their cache filled till the game is closed.

[Derdzvero.7051]

Hm, it might be related to some cache preloading (events, map details, rng elements), but I doubt my M2 SSD would notice it. When I'm jumping between zones there is a short terrain loading (1sec max), but it's not really the significant fps drop. Also the if that's the case the fps would return to normal by themselves after a while,just sitting in the area, which is not the case..they kind of remain constant indefinitely at those spots.

[Goettel.4389]

I can run this game on anything from my reasonably modest i7/1070 (near max) to my nearly 20 yo mashed potatoes Celeron 1Ghz laptop (lowest low @20 fps). It's not great, but it runs. Sure I'd love a big engine upgrade, but I doubt the current one is keeping people away from the game.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

This complain comes up in nearly every MMO I played most PC aren't build to support 50+ while they using their skills in fact you need a ridiculous overpowered PC for this. You see also in wvw that even the server going on their knees when 150 players using their skills at the same time. Its true that changing to dx 11/12 will give you 20-30% more fps in some circumstances and I would love to see an alternative version of Gw2 like we had with the 64 bit version.

What is more import form my perspective is reducing the amount of visual noise from skills and be able to reduce the skins to standard from legendary and IS skins . Every player and a lot of youtuber complains about this . Some of my guild members getting sick from the effects of the Jahai map. From what I heard the problem is what effect is necessary which not ? Best idea I have with this is let the player decide in Path of Exil there is the possibility to suppress the display of items and creating so an item filter by simply putting the stuff into a text file let's do the same here for effects by putting there name in a text file they get turned off and let the community do the rest.