Mell.4873

Most of the Conditions builds use full ranged. Axe/Torch + Shortbow so camping ranged is possible on Ranger just not for Power.

So, to make full use of Sword you had to use another Weapon. What was weird is having a leap skill into a move around behind the target, then evade backwards, then finally leap into a move around behind the target. That was the problem with the skill. Ultimately it was never used because the skill directly controlled your movement, leaping backwards in a Raid/Strike is never a good idea for a Weapon skill.

Not necessary, I mean only Untamed can make use of the Dagger Ambush. Maybe you have a point in PvP but honestly I never saw any body use it and I main Ranger so I would know. Ultimately damage is king even in PvP so all the fluffing around getting dodge evades kind of means nothing if you did 0 damage. This is exactly why Greatsword + Longbow is the most used combo.

Did they tell you the reason. They had Low Intensity playstyle before and now they have to try hard to play there favourite class. Seems like an okay change to me.

The sword was quite literally unusable in PvE before this update. I mean at what point during a stack do you need to roll backwards and re-engage from behind. Both abilities could result in your death or being outside the boon aoe range. I mean this is literally Dagger Elementalist and Axe Mirage problem too but way worse. Both those weapons required you do leap through an enemy to get full dps, positioning you on the other side of a boss where you can be cleaved. Just the fact that Ranger Sword is being put in to Snowcrows benchmarks should indicate how strong it is. If you still want to leap back to re-engage take Lightning Reflexes.

The main reason it is a DPS loss is if you are providing Quickness then you are forced to swap to Longbow. A Soulbeast isn't forced to swap weapons so Longbow is not a DPS loss.

I can't read it either but this is what he said. OP post: The recent balance patch has left a lot of people frustrated, myself included. Between the heavy-handed nerfs to DPS Deadeye, the new Fractal CM being pretty much designed around everyone being ranged, and Condi Virtuoso getting yet another (albeit small) buff, it's really highlighted a problem with the way Anet is currently balancing. Back when CMC and the balance team did their stream around the philosophy of their balance approach, they mentioned that they want to consider total "Power Budget" when tweaking the values of skills, traits, etc. Meaning, the total gameplay value provided by any given skill or trait. Aspects that could be considered part of a 'Power Budget' include but are not limited to: Damage Ranged/Melee Casting Time After Cast Animation Lock Boons Provided Boon Durations Built-in Mobility Cleave/Single Target Boon Application Radius Cooldown / Initiative / Energy Cost Survivability Note - I'm not saying that all of these ARE and/or SHOULD be part of the power budget. I'm saying they could be. Balancing around all of these different factors is no easy task. It would be difficult to come up with an objective or quantitative way to evaluate each of these factors. It can never be an exact science. The problem, however; is that it seems like the only consideration being given to balancing skills, is exclusively around the Damage aspect of the game, and not any of the other factors listed above. Let's go through some examples. DISCLAIMER: I am not here to say that 'X factor of Y skill should worth Z DPS' when discussing power budget - I'd leave the fine tuning to the balance team. My point here is to only illustrate that other factors besides DPS must be considered. With that out of the way, let's list some qualities of a few specs and see if we can identify any 'Power Budget' disparities. It's important for this analysis to take some builds that are more or less within a short range of each other. After the Deadeye nerfs, Dagger/Dagger DPS deadeye is going to bench around the 41k range - so pretty much around a power reaper, and the Condi Virt, so: Condi Virtuoso * Almost Full Ranged (DPS Gain if in melee for Bladeturn) * All Skills Pierce/cleave * Has access to Distortion * Medium Health Pool * Has some sustain without an opportunity cost * Has a relatively easy rotation * Has access to all of the core Mesmer Utility for minimal DPS loss. Dagger/Dagger DPS Deadeye * Requires full melee * Little to no cleave * Lowest Health Pool * Small Passive sustain if bringing signet of malice * Requires precise management of initiative * Requires consistent on-demand access to stealth * Rotation can be ruined by encounter applied revealed * Access to Great Break Bar Damage Power Reaper * Requires full melee * Very good cleave * Largest Health Pool * Second Health Bar * Self-Quickness * Requires management of shroud cooldowns * Access to core necro utility There are probably more factors I could list, but I think this list at least allows me to get to the point. Why can a ranged build (Condi Virt) do the same amount of damage as these other builds? When we think through the power budget, I suppose you could make an argument that the second health bar on Reaper compensates for the fact that they're melee - but with encounter design like Silent surf it's CLEAR that the power budget assigned to being ranged is currently being VASTLY under considered. Why is DPS Deadeye in the same range as these other builds? It has no cleave and has a very limiting rotation. Does the access to good breakbar damage make up the difference in power budget? I'm not going to make any specific prescriptions on where DPS of a certain build should end up - but I think the fact that all 3 of these builds are going to pretty much be in the same range is telling that only DPS is really being considered as part of the power budget. There are probably other countless comparisons you can do like this to show that the way they're balancing around other builds is way off. Like others have mentioned. There needs to be a ranged tax - but further, there needs to be consideration for other additional non-damage related factors or limitations placed on some builds but not on others. Currently it seems like this isn't being considered whatsoever. TL;DR: Nerf Condi Virt, lul.

@Abdiel.3051 I think the Developers themselves don't fully understand the roles. They have really just been responding to the Meta as it developed. I mean right back at launch very few skills/traits even had a boon element so stuff like Fury was straight up missing from classes. When they saw that Warrior shouts where being used to buff other players with Might and Fury they thought that everyone should get that boon built into their kit. This logic continued untill everyone has a Quickness or Alacrity support. Anyway I do agree we need some sort of role training material from Arena Net. It should come through with a better LFG system.

Add Ranger Sword Ambush to that. Seems to be something inherit to Leaps. They muct have something built in so a moving player don't get hit.

After testing this in Fractals/Strikes/Raid I have finally got some semblance of something playable http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAs6ZlZwaYeMQ2Je6TttPA-zRJYqR3fZkYKkaVpzAA-e If you need more healing, you can trait Mantras If you need more might run Well of Action or Manta of Pain If you need more Quickness or Alacrity slot in Phantasm utilities If you need more Aegis and boon duration, Trait Signets and use Signet of Inspiration Overall, the build is attempting to stack as many different types of healing for more Sustain. If you need Burst healing, it can be tricky but Wells a good default with traited Mantras being the next best thing. The Sustain should be high enough to not need Burst healing but you have options.

You can very easily swap this to Hammer/sword + Longbow without much DPS loss.

Yes, 2x Ambush every 9 seconds.

Essentially this, by the time you use smoke and finisher into it you are probably dead.

My god this thread goes around and around in circles @Acheron.1580 Is the main complaint is the Alacrity it so short.... would 2 second per Celestial Avatar skill be better? I mean essentially everyone is complaining to Trevor with no real solution. Making Celestial Avatar easier to use or excluding Alacrity from it is not a solution. The entire problem with Druid is the Celestial Avatar was useless except for mass healing. It's essentially the Resurrection Bot Scourge all over again. Now Celestial Avatar has 3 district forms, Alacrity, Healing or Conditions.

Isn't this going to happen regardless of boons. If we no longer require certain classes to clear content then wouldn't you just play the highest DPS. Anything else will just be kicked. This did happened once when Scourge was super strong before EoD. CM fractals had no other DPS options maybe just Condition DPS Firebrand

This pretty much defeats the Authors logic. Soulbeast Sic Em + Longbow is the only combo that can really abuse something like Rapid Shot but it's a one trick pony. The only thing left to do is run away with two mobility Pet merge skills. I mean you are basicly a Thief at that point. From my experience is probably one of the weakest combo's on offer. @Noenp.2041 If you want some of the more OP stuff Rangers can do look into Untameds Restorataitive Strikes. This can combo with many skills to fully heal the Ranger, it's also on a 10 second cooldown. Even the new Celestial Avatar is a force to recon with, being able to team fight and roam with a single build. I know it's a bit of a meme but the Arrow Cart (Barrage + Quick Draw) is very strong in the right hands.

Are you sure you watching the same guy. I'm pretty sure he now mains Druid in PvE and WvW roaming. The Ancient Seed trait only really prevented you from taking damage and the enemy retreating. It did virtually no damage, now your CA is a power house of different Conditions. Maybe you could make a case for sPvP.

Sword before this patch barely played beside a small subset of the Ranger audience. It was pretty much a PvP or solo PvE weapon but you had so many better optimal choices. Now is it a DPS machine with many clear advantages over the old Weapon. Ranger is all bout gap closing abilities and mobility. This fits right in way better than a weird dodge back or around the enemy.

Then also get rid of Chilled and Slowed since they are the conditions that you corrupt those boons into. Then nerf all bosses in the game since they have been made to difficult with the boon removal. Then remove most of the AoE healing in the game since that is now to strong. I mean what are we doing here......

Then any profession with these boons becomes default the best Elite in the game. Much like how Warrior was at launch.

Quickness especially has been in the game since launch so you are essentially asking to delete a core part of GW2.

Sadly I doupt confusion will come back. It created a toxic raid environment where Mesmer were favorite for certain fights over other classes. Arena Net is trying to move away from this design.

I don't think I am being negative....

I mean it kind of was before this big balance update. Chronomancer Wells applied Alacrity and Shatters applied Quickness but Wells were very hard to aim and impractical for most content outside helping WvW sieges. So we did have what you laid out untill they started nerfing Staff Mirage.

I kind of predicted more damage, at least I can use it in my Power Virtuoso PvE build.