Trianox.3486

Thief is a counter example. There are many fun and very different playstyle even amongst the melee or range options themselves. You can tweak your traits and gears to make almost every style playable, but many won't really be that effective in many circumstances or will have wide open flaws, such as an inability to engage certain types of mobs/situations, or although playable your damage will drop significantly by anywhere from 10 to even 80% of meta builds.

I kind of like your analysis there Deceiver. Here, let me throw this: Dagger Autoattack: fine. Little low DMG for PvE, could it be boosted by 10-20%. Similar in PvP for 3rd hit only. Heartseeker : Animation is a bit clunky, but that's okay. What about getting 1, 2 and 3 stacks of bleed for 25%, 50% and 75% PvP, and 1, 3, and 5 stacks PvE, for 1.5 or 2 seconds duration.Rationale: It would provide a nice single target option for condi builds outside of DB and would give a reason to rotate between other skills, and not only meme-play-DB. Death Blossom: Increase the power coefficient, or base damage by a bit. Change skill: A fast ground whirl 450 range in straight line, with evade and with the current damage/number of targets, followed by a flip skill with current animation but slightly faster, without evade, 2 poison and 2 torment stacks (or 2 poison 3 sec, and 6 confusion stacks 2 sec PvE, -50% duration in PvP).Dancing dagger: From 1 to 2 stacks of torment or a low duration poison (2-3 sec) for PvE with a bit of swiftness -OR- an increase of power damage with swiftness.Rationale: Right now, in PvE there are very rare occasions when it seems that it's a good idea to use it, and whenever I use it… it always feels a bit like "I should have kept that initiatives for something else more effective". The concept is interesting: hitting while escaping, or as an aggrow skill. But it feels like it could either loose damage and loose 1 initiative (therefore more utility oriented), OR keep current cost and be slightly boosted with boon or damage. Cloak and dagger: fine I guess.

It's not.There are a few builds that outperform power builds. PvE P/D deadeye build with 35-39k, single target. (I think Vallun had a video on it recently?) That's quite high in the realm of DPS. PvE D/D can also get some very high number and can out-DPS power builds in certain circumstances, but it has a higher ramp-up time, and is not great for bosses with invulnerability phases.You can burst condi with D/D, but it's usually not as effective as getting the rythme right so that you optimize your DPS while keeping enough initiatives for CnD, or a heartseeker to move to next groups of targets, etc.Technically whether you burn all initiatives or go with a slower rythme, there should be more or less the same DPS over a longer fight of a few minutes (given initiatives regenerate at a stable/fix rate anyways), but keeping your initiatives pool at 30-60% at all time offers much more flexibility. Burning all your initiatives is usually a pretty bad idea, unless, of course you have a very short window to deal your damages.

I actually though Chronomancer would have played without "shatter", instead gaining a "time shard" (stack up to 3, like clones, when you cast clone/when they die/disappear), with each stack granting a pulsing AoE slow (every X second) of a wider radius, "shattering" the time shards, granting the effects of F1-2-3-4 based on the number of shards... Etc.More shards mean longer time split, but time.split would not be depending upon the number of active summons but rather based on the number of stacked time shards, same for each F-skills. we could also have had some sort of phantasmal armor/cloak that we could "shatter" for each summon again stacking more charges/levels/effects whether based on active summons or based on summons that died. Each charge/stacking lasting a defined amount of time? Each stack grant defensive capacity which you sacrifice for a big hit/effect when you shatter. All traits would therefore still be valid/workable.

Thief damage burst are often very one trick-poney most of the time. And insta save buttons with stealth isn't really useful in zerg.Even tho evades allow to evade unlimited hits, that sort of active defense is weak in the context of zerg play again as outside of those evade frame you are very frail with most builds, and don't have many damage reduction perks allowing to take some of the inevitable incoming hits. But otherwise, yes thief is a great class for many reasons as well.

Hi! So, I reflected on different flavors of an Acrobatics rework (especially for the 300cd skills). I came up with way more ideas than needed, and I suspect each of you also have some ideas.I propose here 4 defensive/boon/support oriented traits and 3 offensive oriented traits.I'm NOT suggesting they would be all implememented, so it's rather a list of ideas. I'm not exactly sure of which could replaces which traits, so anyways! Let me know if you find any inspiration/ideas interesting in there! 1) Boon and support traitsAcrobatic TransmutationDodging an incoming condition grant a stack of regeneration for yourself and up to 5 allies in a 360 radius, and heals allies (not you) for a small amount (456 (0.08)). Sustained presenceWhile regeneration is active, gain +250 healing power and +150 vitality.Everytime you grant yourself or an ally a boon, you gain 2 might for 5 seconds. Self-less Acrobacy2 seconds Protection granted to 5 allies when you dodge in a 360 radius. (for allies and yourself)1 second Aegis granted to 5 allies when you dodge (or evade?), in a 90 radius. (Only for allies, not yourself, and you basically you got to stand on the ally...) Constant motionYou gain 1% of DMG and conditions reduction per 60 tiles crossed for 10 seconds, for a maximum 15 stacks.Each evaded hit grant a stacking 2% power and condition damage bonus for yourself and your allies in a 360 radius for 10 seconds, maximun 5 stacks. 2) Aggressive and complementing traitsConfounding/Disorienting Acrobacy (version 1)Ennemi gain one stack of confusion for each missed hit that was to hit you.(PvP, WvW) 1 sec internal CD per target in PvP for 1 stack of 2 seconds;(PvE) 3 stacks for 3 secondes, no ICD.-OR- Confounding/Disorienting Acrobacy (version 2)If a foe misses an attack as you dodge/evade, he gains a confounding stack for 10 sec. If he reaches 5 stacks, he loses all stacks and receives 10 stacks of 1 seconds confusion (PvP, WvW)If a foe misses an attack as you dodge/evade, he gains a confounding stack for 10 sec. If he reaches 3 stacks, he receives 10 stacks of 2.5 seconds confusion (PvE) (Version 2 offers more counter play.) Thoughtful Acrobacy(PvP, WvW) While in combat, if you take no DMG for 10 seconds, your next skill inflicts damage (Damage: 300 + (power*0.25)) and immobilizes on all hits a 0.25 second, 5 sec internal CD per target, .Movement weapon skills gain 5% power and condi damage. (PvE) While in combat, if you take no DMG for 10 seconds, your next skill inflicts damage (Damage: 465 +(power*0.5)) and immobilizes on all hits a 1 second, 5 sec internal CD per target.Movement weapon skills gain 5% power and condi damage. Toxic Sprint/DashYou release poison as you dash and gain one stack of regeneration.-OR- Burning reflexesDashes skills happen so fast that it generates heat as a 120 radius 5 targets 1 stack of burning for 2 seconds, when you reach the target, creating a fire field.-OR-Quick hits succession charge a burning 180 radius attack. Achieving 10 hits in under 5 sec throws out a burning attack, of a 1 stack of burning for 2 seconds on 120 radius and 5 targets.-OR- Instant ImpactDashes and shadowstep puts a 0.75 sec stack of slow and chill on 5 targets 80 radius around target (landing position). You gain quickness 0.5 second. (PvP, WvW)Dashes and shadowstep puts a 2 sec stack of slow and chill on 5 targets 120 radius around target (landing position). You gain quickness 1.5 second. (PvE) Again, I'm NOT suggesting that all of them would be implemented, but rather than 2-3 could be considered to replace the 300CD traits, and some of the less used ones. Thanks!

To be fair, ele does have a lot of piano play involved, but if you want to optimize your DPS and impact, PvP or PvE, there is not that much room for improvisation.To a certain degree there is a lot of risk (to screw up rotations), but it's relatively predictable to play against because one know what skills in which order they will have to land to maximize their DPS or keep you down. That's also what bothers me. I'm not sure other would agree with me, but the way I see it: classes with more meaningful/impactful individual skills (or in 2-skills combos) tend to be either very boring/repetitive, because really 2-3 skills do it all, OR when they have many impactful skills, those classes allow for a good deal of improvisation because almost anything will work in almost any order. On the contrary, classes with complexe rotations tend to leave less room to improvisation, and even if you can improvise, it's more about finding the opening to use your complexe rotation, or being able to start it from any point along what forms a relatively linear pattern. In a weird way, it's as if many classes lacked enough meaningful/potentially impactful combos. Most build usually have 1 or 2 key rotations, are tailored around that, and that's about it, with complementary utility for safeguard. Any other skill put in the wrong order will have you decrease your DPS. But then, when you can improvise easily, you tend not to have complexe combos at hand. In short, I wished we had more skill combination potential to react to a diversity of situations. I find Guardian allows for more improvisation. Yet, relatively simple to play.Certain really specific thief builds require high skill ceiling to pull off, but wont be as impactful as some of the more easier/cheezier builds.Revenant has a great deal of adaptability built in, but also more or less stuck with very specific rotations to be effective if built to maximize that sort of play. Bottom line, I'm not sure what you want really exist here.Engineer and ele might be the most complex, but don't allow for that much improvisation, I find, if you want to remain effective. Other people might say otherwise.

I'm kind of hoping for axe, sword OH, for a mid range or another melee... or focus or even scepter for some sort of arcane assassin type of elite spec. One handed weapon either main or off hand would be amazing given our dual skills... That are supposed to be one of our key feature, yet not really used by the two last e-spec.

I wish shortbow was made stronger damage wise and become a viable PvE option, while still offering lower damage than pistol or rifle. Autoattack: boost the DMG multiplier from 25% to 50% when target is poisoned (or more!),Cluster bomb spit one burning stack of 3 secondes on the landing of the non-exploded shell.Disabling shot: successfully evading a hit refunds one initiative.Chocking gaz, from 3 to 4 seconds, from 4 to 5 pulses, add a 2 daze if poison stacks exceed hits 5 or above;Infiltrator arrow... What if... COST and RANGE was cut in half when you click, but when you hold before click, regular cost and range. I think it could be fun and actually interesting. OR just straight up cut PvE cost from 6 to 5 or even 4. I don't see the issue for such a heavy cost skill, especially when SA traits for shadowstep and blind bonuses aren't that powerful to start with, in PvE context.

Well buddy, you brought up that "burst from 1k". I too pointed that skill3 was the big hitter, yet you said bleeding was a cover condi. You're kind of invalidating some of your own things there. :-/ But regardless, yes this is what I have been saying from the start. Don't let the thief use that P/D skill3 more than once and even then, if you dodge during his animation you cut massively the damage taken. And of he kept his steal to do 3-steal-3, then dodge and use any of the mirage evade skill as he ports in. Unless you have high lag, it should be doable. I'm not sure what other prooves I can bring to you other than suggest to go watch both top thieves and top Mesmer gamers and how they deal with one another (which is of course not the vast majority of players), or actually just some average gameplay. Without going in hyperbola... Tell me if that captures our discussion or not: I think that overall we're saying more or less the same thing about damage output potential. Our numbers are in the same brackets.the main difference is that you seem to think there is not enough counter Play, while I seem to think there are more than enough. Is that right?you say Mirage can manage chief, I say it can counter it. Last point would be: what makes Mirage able to manage cthief?Isn't it Mirage own stealth, CC, port-in/out, and evades? Or is capacity to burst (altho of course deminiahed over the months) or all of that together?

I tend to counter guardian usually easily with my thief (power or condi) but I tend to struggle vs Firebrand who really knows how to flip around their times for maximizing damage avoidance/reduction, cleanses, and optimizing their dmg.

I did not "show" anything about Mirage, I didn't talk of rotation or anything. But again, Mirage is very well equiped to deal with cthief, or thief in general.I agree with @KrHome.1920 here. The builds that are the most ran, thief side, are usually quite one-dimensional bursty thief. As for the rest of your argument, and the numbers you bring into the discussion, it has to be contextualized.Thief cannot apply 20k condi from stealth from 1k range. That's just not true, and that thinking probably is the reason why you loose your fights.A thief can deliver about 20k yes, but it's a whole sequence, and you got to understand it to counter it. Of course if you have no dodge, and that you already spent ALL your cooldown you'll die, who would not. That's true for every PvP fight... especially if outnumbered.PvP is also about learning to use your skills at the right moment, saving some of them for ennemies that you know that are part of ennemy team composition; or spreading them over so everything is not on cooldown at once... And that tells me a lot, I'm not a top player, but I'll say it anyways: if you find yourself in 1v1 during which you burnt all your cooldown, you leave yourself extremely vulnerable to your oponent who might have been using his skills more sporadictly, and you're super exposed to any +1 pressure. You will fall to that +1 thief easily. You're almost asking for it.If you look at pro players (or the closest we have from that hehe), you often notice that they almost never have all their skills on cooldowns, unless they know that doing so, spending everything at once will win them the fight right away, allowing for the cap/decap, etc. Let's look at the real numbers. If we talk core thief (DA, SA, TR, assuming let's say carrion and sigil of poisoning)1rst moveSteal is 1200 range, but then it ports him right next to you (not at 1k range!) with 3921 condi over 12.5 seconds. That's 313,68 dmg per sec.If he plays Shadow art and spent some time in stealth, he could have 2 more venom stacks with Leeching Venom (1176 dmg over 3.75 sec, so another 313.6 per sec for almost 4 seconds)So steal plus SA Leeching Venoms is roughtly 5k condi, with 4 seconds at 626 dmg per second, and 8 .5 seconds at 313 dmg per second. It's really not a whole lot if you don't panic.2nd moveAssuming he was stealth, he will then use a SneakAttack (900 range, not 1k), but because of steal is is right next to you.Sneak will do 1015 power dmg, plus 281 dmg from bonus stealth attack, as well as 2980 bleeding dmg over 5 sec (596 per sec). Both physical dmg and bleeding are incoming by 5 diffrent hits over a full second, which is enough to dodge part of that dmg, and then, of course the bleed is over 5 sec duration.That's a total of a little over 4k dmg, 3rd move and 4th moveShadow strike is a port-out and puts him at 600 range (not 1k!), there is a shot damage of 888+213 stab dmg, so 1.1k.Condi wise: Torment 2 stacks of total of 1066 dmg over 6 seconds, or 2131 if you move, over 6 sec.Poison, 2 stacks (assuming deadly ambition is traited) for a total of 1176 dmg over 3.75 sec.THEN, Repeated is toggled, allowing for 1015 power dmg in 5 hits, and 5 stacks of bleeding (one per hit), for a total of 2384 bleeding over 4 sec, the attack takes 1.25 sec to deliver a full repeater. Big total here is 16 164 dmg, applied in 4 differents "moves" . The first one is instant, the second takes 1 sec, the 3rd and 4th move takes together about 2 sec. So all of that happens within about 3-5 seconds, and a single dodge, blurr or whatever, will have you avoid about half of that.Then aside from about 3k physical dmg, the rest is 13k condi, which is applied about a 15 second period. Every other skill he has is going to hit like a wet noodle. He needs to re-stealth to be able to stack more venom and do another sneak attack with pistol.Cleansing can be done at any point during that fight, but optimally, it should come after the Sneak attack or right after Repeater, depending which you were able to dodge. Now if that thief also brought in, let's say, Spider Venom AND Skale, he'll add up about 2-3k more dmg, but would have also wasted 2 utilities for that... exposing him to counter attack, and leaving him with fewer stealth options. Use a single dodge or a single cleanse half way through and you save yourself half the damage, and you have enough room to counter-pressure, and it will take 15-25 secondes before he can try to pull off a similar sequence again. So once you cleanse or dodge, you have to pick whether you want to keep fighting, in a 1v2, or pull out, or call in support, etc. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAUpjlFwQYhsN2JOuOrrbA-zZoOjCEBpIEc8Acurrent quicklink for the build.openener 3->f1->3 ( venom during 3 )damageVenom gives 4 vulnerabilityF1 gives 5 vulnerability and 8 mighttotal vulnerability : 9, total might : 8 ( im guessing you didnt account for it did you ?venoms apply power damage ( you didnt account for it either ofc )steal : 3984 poison damage6 stacks of confusion, 1200 dmg/tick3 ( first part stab ) 250 power, 2100 torment damage, 1200 poison damagevenom proc 600 poison 180 powerUp to this point all of this damage is instant from stealth from 1200 range.Grand total of 8300 damage ( counting with 5 might )After that you use 3, repeater during which you use venom.you apply1200 power damage, 3000 bleed1x poison venom for 600 poison, 180 power4x skale venom for 720 power damage and 3464 torment.this is another 9100 damage, it also applies 4 vulnerability.add in previous damage add in more might then actually exist add in 9 vulnerability and here you have ~18k-20k dmg. Add in confusion.all of it under cover of ( vulnerability, cripple, weakness, confusion )I'm not sure what those calculations add to the situation given I was already pointing at roughly 20k too, so you kind of missed my point. BUT I thank you for investing time into this.We don't pick the same traits, but regardless the total still goes between 16-22k.Still, here the point: All of that does not happen at 1k range, there is on the contrary a whole positionning game going on, starting right up to your face, to 600 range away, then either back in or moving toward 600-900 range as pistol is max 900 range.And all of that isn't "one button and everything happens"... it's an actual sequence that can be interupted/CC'ed as @KrHome.1920 points out, or evaded, etc. Most of the damage come through channeled skills... that leaves you room to move, espace, dodge, port-in, etc. It's not easy, should not be too hard, especially Mirage to avoid the bulk of it.I too played that cthief a lot both years back and recently, and it's really just that people start pannicking and don't actually take into consideration what's the break down of the damages and where it comes from to avoid/deal with it properly. And of course, I totally get the "suprise" factor and that can be obnoxious to fight, but it's also part of assessing who you're facing and trying to stay on top of it. Again, those cthief builds are quite one dimensional...

If you want, ping me in game and we can train. ;-)

I did not "show" anything about Mirage, I didn't talk of rotation or anything. But again, Mirage is very well equiped to deal with cthief, or thief in general.I agree with @KrHome.1920 here. The builds that are the most ran, thief side, are usually quite one-dimensional bursty thief. As for the rest of your argument, and the numbers you bring into the discussion, it has to be contextualized.Thief cannot apply 20k condi from stealth from 1k range. That's just not true, and that thinking probably is the reason why you loose your fights.A thief can deliver about 20k yes, but it's a whole sequence, and you got to understand it to counter it. Of course if you have no dodge, and that you already spent ALL your cooldown you'll die, who would not. That's true for every PvP fight... especially if outnumbered.PvP is also about learning to use your skills at the right moment, saving some of them for ennemies that you know that are part of ennemy team composition; or spreading them over so everything is not on cooldown at once... And that tells me a lot, I'm not a top player, but I'll say it anyways: if you find yourself in 1v1 during which you burnt all your cooldown, you leave yourself extremely vulnerable to your oponent who might have been using his skills more sporadictly, and you're super exposed to any +1 pressure. You will fall to that +1 thief easily. You're almost asking for it.If you look at pro players (or the closest we have from that hehe), you often notice that they almost never have all their skills on cooldowns, unless they know that doing so, spending everything at once will win them the fight right away, allowing for the cap/decap, etc. Let's look at the real numbers. If we talk core thief (DA, SA, TR, assuming let's say carrion and sigil of poisoning)1rst moveSteal is 1200 range, but then it ports him right next to you (not at 1k range!) with 3921 condi over 12.5 seconds. That's 313,68 dmg per sec.If he plays Shadow art and spent some time in stealth, he could have 2 more venom stacks with Leeching Venom (1176 dmg over 3.75 sec, so another 313.6 per sec for almost 4 seconds)So steal plus SA Leeching Venoms is roughtly 5k condi, with 4 seconds at 626 dmg per second, and 8 .5 seconds at 313 dmg per second. It's really not a whole lot if you don't panic.2nd moveAssuming he was stealth, he will then use a SneakAttack (900 range, not 1k), but because of steal is is right next to you.Sneak will do 1015 power dmg, plus 281 dmg from bonus stealth attack, as well as 2980 bleeding dmg over 5 sec (596 per sec). Both physical dmg and bleeding are incoming by 5 diffrent hits over a full second, which is enough to dodge part of that dmg, and then, of course the bleed is over 5 sec duration.That's a total of a little over 4k dmg, 3rd move and 4th moveShadow strike is a port-out and puts him at 600 range (not 1k!), there is a shot damage of 888+213 stab dmg, so 1.1k.Condi wise: Torment 2 stacks of total of 1066 dmg over 6 seconds, or 2131 if you move, over 6 sec.Poison, 2 stacks (assuming deadly ambition is traited) for a total of 1176 dmg over 3.75 sec.THEN, Repeated is toggled, allowing for 1015 power dmg in 5 hits, and 5 stacks of bleeding (one per hit), for a total of 2384 bleeding over 4 sec, the attack takes 1.25 sec to deliver a full repeater. Big total here is 16 164 dmg, applied in 4 differents "moves" . The first one is instant, the second takes 1 sec, the 3rd and 4th move takes together about 2 sec. So all of that happens within about 3-5 seconds, and a single dodge, blurr or whatever, will have you avoid about half of that.Then aside from about 3k physical dmg, the rest is 13k condi, which is applied about a 15 second period. Every other skill he has is going to hit like a wet noodle. He needs to re-stealth to be able to stack more venom and do another sneak attack with pistol.Cleansing can be done at any point during that fight, but optimally, it should come after the Sneak attack or right after Repeater, depending which you were able to dodge. Now if that thief also brought in, let's say, Spider Venom AND Skale, he'll add up about 2-3k more dmg, but would have also wasted 2 utilities for that... exposing him to counter attack, and leaving him with fewer stealth options. Use a single dodge or a single cleanse half way through and you save yourself half the damage, and you have enough room to counter-pressure, and it will take 15-25 secondes before he can try to pull off a similar sequence again. So once you cleanse or dodge, you have to pick whether you want to keep fighting, in a 1v2, or pull out, or call in support, etc.

@Kuma.1503Thanks, buddy! Can the ugly counter the uglier? ;-) Well, it does have the toolkit to deal with P/D condi thief, but spec'ing specifically can open up other weaknesses. I was giving it as an example of a melee (or you can make it range for Mirage of course) with enough ports to deal with P/D condi thief.Mirage has a really nice combination of port-in and port-out/evades. Played by more or less evenly skilled players, Mirage could take down condi P/D. I've seen it happen both ways.Both are squishy, so it's really (I think), a question of who's going to get to other one off guard or just outplay him/her. Thief is very susceptible to falling when facing enough disables, and Mirage are good at throwing that around.I guess it also depends at what level of play we talk about. You could very well have the thief catch the mirage off guard and down him very fast, but the same can be said the other way around.I must also say that the way P/D toolkit works (single target, porting in and creating distance to unload Repeater, etc. the whole rotation) isn't necessirly super easy to pull off when you suddently have illusions all around messing up you LoS. Of course, skilled thief will get around that, but just the same way that a skilled Mirage should be able to pin down that thief or evade the "deadliest" part of the rotation. Because really, if you think about it, there is a specific rotation every 20 sec (core thief, Trickery, DA, SA) or 16.5 sec (DrD with trikery and DA), or 25 sec (DrD, DA, SA)... and outside of that I'm NOT saying the that condi thief is useless, but it's really not as effective... unless of course he starts swapping weapons around, or that the Mirage just rushes him braindead giving the opportunity for even more Shadowstrike-Repeater sequences.

Good approach to that sensitive topic! I like that, thanks! First, we have to acknowledge that certain builds have a lot of diversity/options, while other are more limited, or some really perform well in a rock-paper-scissor format, whether they were designed wth that in mind, or that they acquire such a role with shifting meta, and builds you'd commonly meet in game.Second, well, Pistol-Dagger condi thief is especially built against melee builds with low mobility, and will perform even better against builds with average mobility (as you offer the thief more opportunity to re-use shadow-strike) , but will tend to take a beating from ranged build (Renegade with Shortbow, any ranger really, etc.) or melee build with many ports (Mirage, or Revenant with Shiro Legend could qulify here, even Mallyx), or range or melee builds with built-in kite/evades (thinking of certain Soulbeast builds as an example, or Shiro again that allows you to teleport in, but also retreat very fast).Second, Revenant (core, renegade or herald) have very specific weaknesses, which you can usually trait around ("Legend around" too), as you know, but then you overly expose yourself to other types of issues/pressures. That sort of thief, as you pointed out performs really well against build with low condi-cleanse, because altho it can be a bit bursty, it does not reach the potential of a decent burn Guardian or Scourge. Third, try to identify whether it's a daredevil (600 range swipe) or a core thief (1200 range steal), because both can be very slippery, but in different manners. So now, to specific tips/hints...1) The second he ports-in:1.a) Dodge + daze/taunt/etc depending on your active Legend. If you're on Jalis, Taunt, and either shift to staff for a stun (surge of the mist) or my favorite would be Warding Rift to put blind on him (if you are fast enough you avoid the shadowstrike if he is on core thief),OR1.b) Taunt, do auto-attack and keep your other disabling ability after he used his break stuns such as Roll of Initiatives (50 sec CD) or his Shadowstep (also 50 sec CD). If you successfully disable him, you can try to burst, but Roll or Shadowstep are likely to have you miss your burst, so I would really advice for something that blinds and will mess up his rotation. (If you missed your dodge (1.a) or missed your taunt (1.b) and he is already gone, to to step 2))(If he plays with Shadow Art, for bonus dmg on stealth and venom applications, and such, he's likely to steal, try a sneak attack with all the bonuses (venom trait, plus the leeching, plus maybe an actual venom skill) before doing Shadowstike, leaving you more room for a successful counter using taunt, or blinds, or else). 2.a) The second he ports-out using Shadow strike you can either port to him (phase travel on Shiro) as the thief will be stuck out of "shadow strike" for a short moment, and will force him to disengage.OR2.b) The second he ports-out using Shadow strike, you run opposite direction and dodge, as aside from steal and shadowstep (especially if daredevil), there isn't many ways for him to get back "to" you and complete his full rotation for optimal damages. 3) Try to dodge or block Repeater (2nd sequence of Shadow strike) and use range such as Renegade Shortbow, because other ranged option for the thief are actually not that great, you can overpower the boy. If he uses stealth, go for AoE. 4) Sigil of cleansing to remove cove condi on weapon or legend swap, or getting some resistance to survive the condi will let cover-condi wear off before you go for your cleanse 5) Don't be fooled by the torment application. It's only 2k damage IF you move, 1k if you don't. Mobility is your ally. The bleeding (or poison to a lesser extend) is threatening both because of the volume of damage, AND in teh case of poison because it weakens your heal, of course and as you know. I'm not a great Revenant, but when playing condi thief (75% of my game time is on my thief), I know that if someone applies pressure as good as I can, I'll need to keep porting away and therefore won't deal all the damage I could... and it becomes a time sink, then my team start yelling... haha.

Well people were complaining about the accro + Daredevil staff Dodger/evade build. And to be fair, it was indeed annoying but also a one trick pony more or less.Accro (with vigor and 50%+ more effective endurance Regen, initiatives on evades), daredevil (3 dodges, endurance Regen on staff use) and trickery (more initiatives, and initiatives cut to trickery withdraw and roll for initiatives) meant you could dodge endlessly. I LOVE it for PvE, but too linear "one trick pony" and limited for PvP for my taste. However people being bad at timing their hits in the right window vs a dodgy daredevil, and being bad at dodging themselves vs vault meant that an angry mob requested nerf... :-(But really it wasn't that broken. It was more of an annoying build to face. And instead of learning how to fight it with decent timing or using wards they requested nerf. That being said, if you wanted to do serious damages you had to trade accro for critical strike traits. Was still a very dodgy build, but not as annoying. But still, they nerfed staff, as well as well as GM accrobatic traits that provide initiatives and Regen on evades.

I love preparation skills, visuals, effects, actual functionality BUT for PvE, the 3 sec delay is waaaay too long. We move fast across the battlefield, chainkill, or basically the fight location shift quickly... So the current skills are really lacklusters. Their only use case in PvE at the moment are against relatively immobile foes with very high HP that won't go down in less than 10 secondes, else it's just not useful at all and any other skills end up being a better option. I love the Seal area potential for crowd control and such, but fields effect are too weak (so whirl don't really make it shine that much) and against by the time I would pop it monsters inside and outside are already dead.I used it on the past as a safe zone I would place on the floor to pop instantly later in the fight when I needed to reset the fight, but ....when my build is DPS oriented, foes get downed too fast or I can fight without ever a need for reset when rotation is spot on... So... :-/ not that great. A 1 second prep time instead of 3, would totally solve it for me for the knock down and the condi ones.Portal is more of a PvP or WvW... And Seal, I wish would have an additional effect for PvE.

To me it's more an issue of low healing coefficient, and low impact of toughness/vitality per brackets. Wether you have 0 or 1500 healing, as thief for example, means you'll go from 456 to 576 healing on PvE espacist fortitude (drd heal on evade) or 150 to 270 in PvP/WvW. That's almost meaningless.So investing into healing power reduces significantly your DPS, and you barely get anymore healing done/survivability. Same goes for toughness and vitality. Between 11k HP or 16k or between 14k to 20k, when certain creatures do about 20k on one hit... The difference does not help. It would help in certain circumstances but they are limited. :-/

Many guardian builds are really good for simple and easy PvE.Wooden Potatoes made a nice series for open word PvE build, and they are mostly really easy and powerful. But the builds I enjoy the most when going solo and willing to play relax are with thief: 1) pistol/pistol diviner deadeye (deadeye, crit, trickery). You can chainkill like there is no tomorrow. Mark, unload, mark unload, mark unload... While it may seem boring, you can focus on positioning, and you can add depth to it through different ways with utilities and learning how to move around AS you shoot, rather than stop-shoot-stop-shoot like most people would do. Also, at some point you're efficient enough that you challenge yourself to speed through certain zones without leaving anything alive. 2) dagger/dagger dodgy daredevil with mirage runes, or thorn, or other relevant condi-dmg oriented runes. Deadly art, trickery and daredevil make for a relatively high condi pressure build, and quite uncatchable. I can play hours long in "tougher" zones without dying. It's not as bursty as burn guardian, and DMG is definitely lower than some other condi builds out there from other class. But if you pace your death blossom and dodge adequately (avoiding to burn all your initiatives at once basically), you can remain engaged in a fight forever.It's slow for trash mob, but it shines on foes with high HP. It really isn't the fastest option out there at clearing out mobs.in general but definitely, as far as I'm concerned, one of the easiest build. As an example, if you go into PvP mode where condi damage is nerf hard for that build (lotus training and such), you can still take out the chieftain and warlord without taking in a single hit - if you know how to play it. It will be a little slower than other builds (ex burn/warlock Dragon Hunter, or other variations) but you can start without notice and chain fights endlessly without worrying for cooldowns, unlike DH or other professions. I also play staff daredevil, which is more effective than D/D daredevil in terms of gross DPS, or one shooting even small pack of trash mobs, but you got to be more careful with initiative management, and although easy once you get the grasp of the rotations, D/D remains just simpler/easier/more relaxed. That being said, even if D/D is "simpler" in nature, you can really learn positioning, dodging, and it can bring that build to a whole new level when you really master it. It reminds me of some warrior builds that seems brain-dead, very basic, but that you can bring to a new level if you master them well.

Hum, for me, and I know many could disagree, it's about playstyle and comfort. Personally, I tend to go with staff... There is DMG maximization (perfectly played build in perfect conditions and in a perfect scenario) and optimization based on real life (gaming hehe) circumstances.I prefer to go for comfort and stability rather than unforgiving build/rotation. It provides more flexibility in case of mistakes from me or team mates. I find myself picking traits for build that are sometimes not fully optimized/maximized, but are high enough to be competitive, yet allow for stable performance regardless of mistake or I should say with a higher mistake tolerance threshold, which give comfort and allow to focus on positioning, and mechanics. And ultimately, I think I perform overall better by a thin margin, then if I had the traits for maximized DPS output. When I'm really really good with a build, then I eventually switch for more "hardcore" traits (more static rotations)... But to be honest prefer a slightly more relaxed playstay with fewer elements to worry about. Side note: I tend to always have 1-2 bars empty, but avoid emptying all 3. Staff has the added benefit of providing more endurance regeneration, which further allows for extra dodges.One could also make the argument that if you're stuck in a position in which the unavailability of Dodge would kill you is because you didn't time properly and perfectly your ration, and that therefore an extra dodges would not save you either way... That stance could push toward choosing havoc. But I don't think situations are black or white that much, we often play in grey zones and hence more flexibility is good when needed.

If I don't find my opponents always (or too often) escaping me by a thin margin or if I find I would have survived better if only I had a tiny little bit more defense/HP, OR if slightly longer fight feel more controled, or if length of fight do not really change by using one stat combination or the other (wether dying or but especially killing roughly within the same time frame regardless of the stats) I prefer studier stats to have more wiggle room. In my own case, I never really find myself saying "if only I had 100 more power, he would have died and I would have survived", but I more often find myself saying "crap, I almost survived when that 2nd guy who showed up"... So I opt for slightly studier stats.

As a main Thief, Magebane Tether is fine.It's a counter to moment and stealth, the sort of thing everyone asks.And yes, there are ways to deal with it. Many would be glad to explain if you ask. Funny enough, on warrior subforum someone was asking how to deal with thief and when I said one option was spec'ing Magebane, some agreed, some didn't. Why is it that you are not asking advices on how to deal with it instead of requesting a nerd right away?

Press 3 til it dies is extremely potent on deadeye as mark/steal renew on every marked target kills. And with mark comes in fury, might, and almost permanent quickness, plus you regain 2 initiatives, meaning you can chain kills extremely fast. But, I like daredevil playstyle the most personally, in terms of flavour.