Trianox.3486

Hummm I'm not sure that turning the two first skills into basically simply movement skill is that great, unless you reduce even more energy cost. Revenant traits have so many internal cooldown or restrictions on application, it's nice to have skills that grant quickness, unblock, endurance, fury, etc. relatively on demand. That's actually a bit my issue with the current skills.They do a lot for a decent energy cost, but sometimes I wish I would only have a simple teleport or a simple "withdraw"/evade back.And I wish I had a 4th utility option to choose which would been less movement focused, and more boon based.

This is so cool! Not sure condo would be my go-to... Altho hear-bleedinf makes sense.But non damaging condi, some daze CC, and power could work really well too thematically.

Resistance does not stop condi application, so you still receive conditions and benefit from Scrapper and Firebrand conversion when they happen. Resistance allow you to bridge de gap between receiving until it's being cleanse or convert. As for using condi ourselves... Well, I too tend to favor power build for WvW too.It's funny, I got a similar build but using a power variant.

Would have been nice to indeed have DrD hand-out that boon to other players. But as using it himself... Well Daredevil already has a lot of mobility. And it would have out shun Acrobacy I suspect.

It feels like steal/swipe as a profession mechanic (mark has a cast time), needs to be instant.But, I must say that loosing the Trickery trait daze on steal would feel reaaaally bad. It's an offensive AND defensive skill, much needed in our arsenal of "active defense". That being said, yeaaah, I agree there should be a difference between weapon skills and profession mechanic. And traiting steal is part of the whole thing... And traiting for daze is one of the perks. To be honest, I never really liked those stolen skills tho, but hey... Whatever.

I play D/P using:DA 3-1-3Trickery: 2/3-2-2DrD: 2-1-1MarauderRunes of rage quitting / infiltration / scholar depending on moodSigil exploitation / boon removal That provides a stable 4-7 condi on enemy for 8-14% DMG increase (exposed weakness). This build excels that quickly +1/finishing targets.I know, I know power build with lotus training: I like this one better due to positioning allowing to go behind/side all the times AND the extra condi. Plus it deals 3 packets of 300-400 power DMG, for average of 1000 total. Ain't bad to be honest. Sometimes I switch DA for SA.

I choose thief for initiatives pool and the flexibility it brings. If you add cooldown, you just make it a warrior with weaker skills and it looses ita flavours almost completely.

Well, there is a 1 sec ICD, but yes, I agree with what you said. I'll further add:In AoE large fights, EA assists sustaining a thief that would otherwise melt very fast. In a very large scale fight, EA isn't enough as the diversity and intensity of condi is can be way too high, and as you move a lot as a thief, you might miss a lot of the group cleanses if you do not pay attention. So EA is very well balanced at the moment. As for Shao: man, again, this is normal to be countered by certain classes/builds. And you can also reflect on the fact that skills such as Call to Anguish might do we'll in certain circumstances and do poorly in order. This is why you have acess to swap legends/utilities and weapons. :-XBut renegade should not suffer too much in the hand of a DrD, that being said... Try to play with your build a bit.

@Shao.7236 really, if DrD is the only build that can survive your renegade condi as you claim... Then it's actually a VERY good news. It means there are counters to your build, and there should always be counters to every single build. As a DrD I sometimes run into opponents that I can't get to scratch. But I know other classes/builds can. I'm fine with that. When however something is a universal pain, to every single build, then it should not exist, or there should be builds, at least one, that will be a hard counter.

Are we really having this discussion? Daredevil is based on evades. Destroy this and change the GM traits and you basically destroyed the very idea of the daredevil.But beyond the concept... Escapist really isn't that strong. In the way condi currently work, it's relatively easy to counter Escapist: Use condi covers and spamORCondi bomb and stop hitting so DD cannot successfully evade.If condi application, in general, was more granular and there were no such things as multi-condi condi bomb, then Escapist would be too good. In the current meta? Naaah! And the whole argument about having too many AoE application of condi... Oh boy... DD will last a bit inside a scourge AoE but not that long because there are too many condi applications and 1 sec ICD for a single condi cleanse is actually often not enough... Unless the DrD plays reaaaally good and the condi-attacker is somewhat bad.

I play both daredevil main, and warrior as my 2nd at the moment.As daredevil, I know what is dangerous for me, and as a warrior how difficult it can sometimes be to beat thieves... But how easy it may also be.Before any hints, I'll just start by saying that I found warrior to be easy to be decent but much harder to really really master. It's actually very similar to thief minus the fact that thief are really squishy if traited to do dmg, but also have some neat escape plans, which counterbalance their squishiness... And in WvW those escape will outshine warrior.That being said, I also realized over the years that warriors being easier to be decent at, means that many players won't actually get to know/master the pieces that would make you go from good to amazing. Anyways... If you pay Spellbreaker with strengths and discipline: Full counter can be dangerous for DD if you activate the block AS the DD launches in the air with either staff vault, dagger/dagger death blossom, or lotus training dodge or the impact dodge. Why? As you see these mechanism, they'll imminently hit you, so they'll trigger your full counter, which you can then use to hit back. Not only he wasted dodges/initiatives, but you got no DMG and stroke him back. Magebane tether. Yeah. This is really good. Trait for immob on daze. Use bola and dazes. The thief will start hating you and might panic haha. Mace, shield: blocks and CC. If you face a power thief, he's likely to be squishy, 1-2 well places CC should do the trick. If you play against condi DD, he likely have bigger HP pool, so you'll need to chain 2-3 CC instead of 1-2, followed by DMG. All those dodging/jumping leave the DD very vulnerable on his landing point (as the evade is shorter than the animation). Observe and try to land your hit at the end of the vaults/blossom/power-dodge. Lotus is more trickery to catch off guard because of the animation, but these three others are much easier. Discipline with 1 range + 1 melee weapon is also a good combination. 4 sec swap CD is enough for you to swap to a range option as soon as the daredevil dodge/vaulted too far, or is trying to escape. Swap back to melee as soon as he is in melee range. The general rule is that, for him to sustain enough initiatives to dodge/dmg AND have a bit of lea-way to escape, he'll need to time his dodge/vault and cannot just spam,which gives you better windows of opportunity. If he spams everything/too fast which leaves a too short window for you to DMG him, just do the same: block/evade/kite. And wait 45 sec, try 1-2 cc and a few attacks quickly, and go back to dodging/evading/blocking/kitting. At the 45 sec mark, he will either miss some initiatives and won't be able to escape you, or you'll force him to burn it and you'll retry the CC as soon as your cooldowns are off. Don't worry too much about the "he is resetting the fight" with sword2, shortbow5 or whatever because he is bruning more initiatives. And while he is away, your cooldown are also resetting. A good thief can 1v3, just the same way a good spellbreaker can 1v3 too. A lot has to do with practice, and the type of opponents. I even won a 1v4 as a daredevil. None were using CCs or immobs.But I also got defeated by a spellbreaker despite teaming up with a guardian, and a ranger. The ranger kept triggering the spellbreaker full counter. It was so annoying. And I think the spellbreaker had adrenal health and might makes right or some nasty sustain. Not completely sure, but the take away was: In 1-1, I could have never bursted through him. And I met a few warriors like that in the last few months. Either they were really easy to melt, or would out-sustain me to a rediculous level.

Thanks for all the comments/replies! It makes it an interesting discussion. AAaaaaaah, for the vigor part: Yeah, the rune only provides 9 sec out of a 20 sec ICD, as you pointed out. But Given "Payback", I find I don't need Trickster as much to lower tricks' cooldowns, so I'll keep withdraw but won't have the extra cleanse, and therefore, I use bountiful thief (15 sec duration every mark). To be honest, I rarely have to dodge, so I tend to just remain on Trickster... and skip on vigor, but if I see there is an issue, I switch around and vigor stays in...That would be for areas where enemies rush too fast in melee.Same for Istan, as mentionned above. =) In boss fights, there are certain condi that are just really annoying, so I'll pick trickster, but IF and only IF this is a "dangerous boss", I'll swap BQoBK for Maleficent Seven. That will mean I get lower dmg per hit, but I gain vigor and protection, regen, etc, and coupled with Mercy... it's just a ton more of initiatives, so it somewhat compensate the loss of Quickness + BQoBK's bonuses. So basically, it's situational. When I find I need that extra safety, Bountiful it is, especially on tashmob. Payback resets cooldown very quickly, and condi cleanse isn't much an issue usually. Boss, Maleficent, and I keep Trickster as Payback won't be as effective and as cleanses might be needed more often. Yeah: I do hear you on the "marking is annoying". =/ Interesting build you got there. Huum, seems fun to play!What is the thinking behind healing power? It does not seem to make "that much" of a difference on Withdraw, is it for Escapist Fortitude? lol, yeah, dead thief = no dps.

Hi Sir Vincent III (and everyone else). I agree. I use Staff + P/P myself. I find DE P/P a pain since mobs dies to fast and marking a new target is a real burden. Yeaaah, same. To ease gameplay on DE, I put autotarget on, "tab" for switching target/closest, and a mouse button for mark. Yeah, I acknowkledged that too in saying that I didn't dive into the full gear description.Here is what I currently use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaEBoqprlNw6YQMM2IW+XbPVA-zRZYBRFIGpb4wOl2kARoqqQIkuAVxzywjbA-e Few things to note: #1) For utility, I alternate between: -- Roll for Initiatives: 6 initiatives and stunbreak, condi cleanse-- Mercy: to reset mark and regain initiatives for champions.-- Binding shadowns: 3 sec knockdown + 2 sec immob + 15 vulnerability = great against champions breakbar and such.-- Haste: For stunbreak, quickness and more fury, for areas with fewer trashmobs but more high HP foes, for when Mark's quickness is off.--- Scorpion wire: I know, I know, noobish, but it works well where there is a lot of breakbars to deal with in a short amount of time.But I tend to always keep:Assassin Signet for the 180 power + 540 bonus power when active (to down veteran within 2 unloads)#2) For traits, there is a few switch I do based on content: Invigorating Precision when I need the sustain, but I use Withdraw as a heal skill- OR- No Quarter for more damage (+250 ferocity when Fury is on) when sustain isn't an issue and when I want to increase dmg, but I'll use Signet of Malice for healing skills.AlsoI tend to keep Trickster, but I'll sometimes have Bountiful thieft for the "rare" areas where monsters spawn boons (Istan, as an example).FinallyWoodenPotatoes recommends Malicious intend, but I only pick it for longer boss fight, else I stay all the time on Collateral damages for AoE. Makes life easier I find.#3) Sigils The build link will show what I am current using, BUT I'm testing out the difference between +7% precision, +5% dmg, +10% boon (seemed unnecessary so far), +lighting strike or flamestrike (mini AoE is nice in combination with Collateral dmg)... and to be honest, I'm not fully settled on it. But so far, Sigil of Force seems better than lighting or flame because the volume of hits per secondes output more dmg than having to wait the ICD of flame or lighting.#4) Marking and boon management As soon as you mark, you entered the fight with Fury (15 sec), 3 Might (15 sec), Swiftness (15 sec), Quickness (6 sec).Quickness provides 200 power + 200 precision due to DE 2nd line GM.AND Firework gives 6 Might, Fury, and Vigor when entering combatTherefore, Before you even hit your opponent, your crit chance is then up to 96% (with CS traits, it's 100%), and 9 might, you benefit of the 20% heal on dmg due to fury, Quickness makes unload a breeeeeeze while providing that nice +200 power too. One Unload will provide 8 might (12 sec), so one second later you're already at 17, and within 2.5-3 sec after marking your first target, you're already at 25 might. But usually tash foes would die before the end of the 2nd unload. There is enough might generation (Firework, Mark, Unload with long enough duration) that you never have to worry about it, same for Fury. Autotargeting is therefore useful to ensure all hits land on other foes and that you do not waste too much bullets, else you don't gain your the 2 initiatives back from Unload.There is mini-down time here and there for Quickness if I don't pay too much attention. But in Trashfight, Quickness is just premanent. Hence why I pick "haste" sometimes.In tashmob fight, you keep permanently all those boons, with their associated bonus#5) PaybackPayback is such a strong trait for this build, every 4-5 foes you kill, all your CD are reset, regardless of their lenght. For Withdraw at 14.5 sec CD with Trickster traited, you hit, Withdraw, kill you foes, save 20% CD, nd by the time you kill your 2nd or 3rd mob, it's already reset. Haste and Roll for initiatives behave the same, just like Thieves Guild.This makes the build extremely potent in Trashfight. Champion is different, and you'll have 2-3 sec of Quickness downtime if you don't pay close attention. It reduces your dmg output, but it's not that bad either.WoodenPotatoes goes full zerker in his video or might mix in some Diviner. Personnally, I prefer Marauder for the tiny bit more HP and to ensure I remain at 100% critical hit chance at all time. I found that around 50% boon duration, was, for me, very comfortable to play with and gave me the feeling of more sustain and damage (give the Quickness bonus of BQoBK, and Invigorating Precision healing, etc.).There is a lot of benefit of having longer Quickness uptime too, faster unload, faster everything! It makes gameplay just easier in many aspects.Beyond 50% it seems to reduce dmg output, and not be as worthwhile. As per my previous posts, I'll still argue that this build is for OpenWorld mostly, I would take a different route for Raids and such of course. I tried and no, it really under-performed compared to other set up.

P/P damage output has to ramp up in order to get to the same damage level of Rifle. If you compare the damage between Unload and Double Tap, you get better result with Double Tap for a cheaper cost since Rifle didn't need to ramp up. Sure, P/P grants Initiative refunds when all shot hits, but you'll have to spend at least 10 initiatives to get to the same level of damage as one Double Tap. If you kneel, 3RB is even a better source of damage for a cheap cost. Rifle will have access to the same trait. Yes, but somehow it preforms better with P/P in kill-chaining.And in terms of ramp up... not sure what you're talking about... doing double-tap twice or unload twice... is usually enough to down most trash... ramping up is not an issue really... especially with long boon duration. It's a comfy playstyle really. =) Erm...that's a waste of Initiatives. Not sure if you're serious with your claim. Due to quickness (and you could do the same with rifle), AA is often enough to deal in 1-2 secondes with weaker trash mobs. You'll get a feeling about it, but there is some mobs that 2 unloads is overkill, but 1 bola and 1 unload is just perfect. And with quickness, it's a tiny bit faster.I usually just adjust for the fastest dmg source without overkilling the prey. Rifle has a built-in infinite Swiftness, which frees up Rune slot for more damage. Fireworks rune doesn't grant "perma-swiftness". Rifle has access to the same things. These are not exclusive to P/P. The fact that you have to use a movement speed Rune shows that your damage is lacking. You'll be kiting that champion longer than someone using a Rifle. I tested, and you are right, it takes a little longer, but barely more actually. It does not make a substantial difference, but P/P shines much more on lot of trash targets. Especially if you toggle auto-targeting (which I dislike in every other build circumstances). Full Diviner set means you have base vitality and toughness. Without access to Protection, you're relying too much on dodge, which is very limited when using Deadeye. Ad P/P, you are susceptible to damage which makes this build dubious in terms of survivability. This build will only work if you are using Daredevil, which will extend the Swiftness from Dash to 20s, which is the only thing that is close to "perma-swiftness", not to mention you have access to 3 dodges and tons of endurance. Thus, I don't see the advantage of P/P in this regards. Rifle can go full Berserker due to its range and mobility advantage. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said full diviner, but I didn't either dive into the full gear description.I use diviner armors, and weapons and trinkets are on marauder. =) I rarely have to dodge, unless trying to avoid large AoE, but in any case, vigor is there permanently, so it's not as bad as it seems.For sustain/survivability, I'd just suggest that you test it. Heck, you can even facetank some of the mobs, but nothing that would hit too strong tho. No, the build works on DE, and perma-swiftness is achieved through using Mark... and since you remark quite often, you stack quite large amount of swiftness. In 2h of openworld, I never run out of swiftness, unless I'm doing some puzzlejumping or mount riding around. To be honest, I prefer Daredevil playstyle way more than DE P/P-P/P, but while ranging with DE P/P, I never found myself out of dodge when I needed one. Maybe that's jus t because I'm used to it? Maybe you just didn't give a full trial of that build on your own? Dunno! =) The diviner armor set + firework boon duration is to keep perma-swiftness and all other thief-available boons at hand permantly. You could do the very same with Rifle, but it seems, for un-explained reasons, to be somewhat easier/more effective in the P/P build. P/P is just faster. This P/P build only looks good on paper. Not on paper, no. It's one of the faster-speed clear build on thief. Maybe I'm doing it wrong on rifle, but I'm always a bit ahead of my own timer when using P/P compared to my rifle benchmark, same build (aside from weapon swap).It's not only paper... don't be so quick to dismiss please. =)Here is a decent video from WoodenPotatoes:

For Open World, I find P/P to be vastly superior as you can kill target faster and with fewer initiatives spent, which in turns allows to reset/re-mark to full or almost full initiatives every new target. That's a big deal.Unload cost 5, but: If all hits land you regain 2While shooting you regain 1 If you mark with Trickery, you gain 2 moreif you use the appropriate signet (which I don't usually, it gives 1 Ini on kill when traits).you can P/P and P/P and use the trait for 3 Ini on swap. That plus the shadow burst on kill, allows in trashmob situation to clean everything very quickly. Quickness on mark allows unload to be much more decent, or sometimes I just use Bola+2-3AA, enough to kill trash. Using Runes of fireworks gives +25% movement speed, perma-swiftness and vigor comes in too, with the rune, allowing very good sustain/mobility.If you use invigorating precision, you can take withdraw as a heal, and that adds for mobility, and roll for initiatives if you want stun break and go crazy with more initiatives. Since getting used to it, I never ended up in a melee situation, and the fluidity is far superior to rifle while running open world, including champions. For everything else, rifle is a safer/more stylist/flexible pick (raids, fractals, etc.) But I'd say that P/P with diviner set and, fireworks runes, plus trickery already give perma swiftness, 25 might, vigor, fury, and perma quickness... Soooo I don't know about the "boon advantage" of rifle to be honest. Flipping between targets happens faster with pistols than rifle. You kill so fast that you can have perma Thief Guild as long as you fight trash, which is really strong in a solo mode or story mission. Being more of a one-trick pony, you improve a lot in term of positioning, dodging, re-targeting, learning enemy mechanism. :-)

If thief worries you, bring 1-2 stun breaks with you, and make sure you land 1-2 CC on the boy. Basically, if he has high DMG, his capacity to evade/escape are more limited. If his evade are high, his DMG is lower. Pistol whip really is predictable, and there is a decent window to interupt/counter it, plus another window when the thief becomes vulnerable at the end with the aftercast animation.Hence the reason why you usually don't see it that much in high level rating. If you want, I can show you how to evade it/destroy that sort of thief. It is not "that" simple, but not that hard either once you know how... and it eventually becomes fairly easy. :-)

And maybe even scourge? :-O

Indeed, I'm using thorn rune in PvP on a P/D build at the moment.

Also, as a thief, you can also trait Don't Stop (Accro) or Unhindered combatant (Daredevil) to respectively reduce or automatically remove immob. Most other professions, aside guardian, have traits specifically designed to reduce immob duration, or to remove immob on cast... And of course certain trait prevents/almost automatically remove condi when applied if you hit/get hit, such as Diamond Skin. Of course, many other regular condi cleanse exists. So really, when people blame immob, they just don't spec according to what could hurt them /prevent it because they don't want to compromise their "perfect build" or more largely want to preserve their precious dps.As a result, there are complains, and we collectively end up getting nerf on cool/fun to play skills and traits, and what remains are dps options which are more or less bland. As a thief, if you don't spec against immob, then you take responsibility for when that nasty immob will happen to you. This is just the same decision as anything else: how much condi cleanse one should bring? How much sustain? Or many stun-break? ...to be relatively safe in front of current meta or builds that usually take you down. You might loose some dps by spec'ing this way, but you'll render the immob based build useless. So the question is how often or how much of a real threat this is over an evening of pvp'ing? You might decide to ignore condi cleanse, but then someone else in your team must be well equipped to compensate. Tho, the very nature of pug PvP means that generally, you cannot count onto that because your partners are random, so you need relatively well rounded builds on your own.

C'mon guys.It's okay if you have an harder time against certain build and an easier time against others. You can't just expect to beat everything easily, else you are playing the unbalanced build. Hehe To every build there are usually counters.They come under two forms:A) Other professions or builds (in this case, bunker weaver or tempest, Firebrand, boonbeast, holosmith, etc).B) Other traits, utilities and weapon choices. Of course there are drawbacks to have a well-rounded trait and utility selection to face condi, range, power, melee, etc. You usually have to focus if you don't want to loose your offensive potential. Overpower builds are indeed those that can do everything (deal with any type of opponents) without compromising DMG. But in this very case, a condi DE... is far from that. A ranged DE cannot really engage on point. Stealth does not allow to to capture point, they're typically quite fragile especially to bust and CCs (and if they are not because they have SA and Accro, their DMG won't be really threatening unless it's a melee DE), condi bomb can also take them out usually, any reflect will have a devastating effect against them if well timed... ...based on their trait choices, it will always expose a DE to specific strategies/threats, unless they are super skilled... At which point any good build in the good hands can be, and DE is not especially more dangerous than other builds.

Just keep in mind that with the current 5 sec cooldown, you can very well hit at sec0, sec4, sec6 or 7...and therefore loose efficiency too just like you would with a 2sec cooldown. If you land many successful hits within 5 sec which does not trigger new poison application, but misses at the 5th, 6th secondes because your target evades, it is still not that great. 5sec is more tactical, 2sec is more spammy.

It's less tactical in application with sword 2, but indeed better overall. I already uses this trait for P/D DrD, and for staff DrD. Quite decent to be honest for any hybrid build, whether you focus more on power or condi. For tactical builds which use sword2, the poison on steal would actually be more effective due to super long duration (14-19 sec depending on expertise/condi duration), and to panic strike anyways.

It is interesting, but I'm not sure what purpose it fills.

Lot of very good recommendations up there. I'll just add my two cents: S/P bursty nature works well with Deadeye (as mentioned above).Quickness does not benefit as much the new poison trait Deadly Ambition of DA because of its internal cooldown.Initiatives management works both well and badly with quickness and alacrity (I know, no one talked about alacrity, but I am putting this out there still) because your initiative does not regenerate faster, but the absence of CD and the way Ini works, allow for burst well complemented by quickness.Personally, I love hybrid build and to use DA with swords in general: the immob puts 2 stacks of poison + 3 more from Deadly Ambitions, throw the mark/steal for 3 more... use Stolen skill and port-out = nasty. Otherwise, S/D is good for boon removal and therefore followed by CnD, works decently with the new SA line (fear on stealth attack if no boons!)

Seeing close to 30,000 online viewers was good. Still a bit sad as I though they would hint a bit more about their timeline.It feels like they organized the event to mark the shift to the Saga approach (which might be of bigger importance in their thinking than in ours), and remind people that GW2 wasn't dead. That being said, the hype was too high for what was announced, altho I'm happy with the new content: races lore were requested a lot, Swiss, build template, strike mission, etc. I'm quite happy with that.